Thai Workers Abroad

[tolsti]

Looking around on the internet I came accross this photo compilation from Israel

Thais in Israel

[Kilgore Trout]

Nice pics; since the intifada many Thais have come to Israel to work. I am glad to see some Israelis take an interest because to many they are just invisible field hands. They bust their butts for not too much money and are often forced to live in somewhat squalid conditions.

[bina]

well, assaf is not the first; there is a religious guy from a kibbutz down south that did an amazing movie on thai workers and their families back home , including a follow up movie; it was on tv several times and i had been in contact with him several times, but in order to use/see the film for educational purposes , he requires payment (nothing is for free).

and, there is my own collection of photos at least six years worth of photographs/video clips that my daughter and i have taken,starting even previous to my marrying a thai worker; i was a mia noi to a thai worker from nong khai (who returned to his wife when his visa finished), and therefore im sure i have many many inside pics showing aspects of thai workers' lives that assaf would never get to see.

many pics also have my children in them, at thai gatherings, and my ex refused to allow them shown in public (israel is a small country and he didnt want to 'embarrass' himself or the kids by my association with the thai workers), so have kept them private until now. also my present husband , a thai, has major objections to seeing pics of certain people that he knew together with me (jeoulousy rears its ugly head).

much time has passed since then, and i have often considered doing an exhibit called issan in israel, but have no money for the moment to enlarge, frame and present the photos. the only exhibit we did was for my own kibbutz, at our (my husband and i) wedding party here, including a short movie, and lecture about the thai workers living here. my husband btw, thinks its an idiotic idea and refuses to cooperate in any way shape or form to help even with the thai embassy side of things (...

trust me, the workers are far from invisible nowadays, a moshav that we go to once a month has about 500+ thai workers and only about 90 israeli families. i often joke that if the thai workers go home, the moshav will be silent dark and lonely w/o the smell of thai food, the workers coming home in evening on the tractors, and the israeli kids shouting sawadee krap to the workers they have see daily for up to 10! years. they have a huge thai food store that supplies asian food products for all the area, and i foresee more and more relationships like mine, between israeli girls and thai guys . its ineveitable. its a real hate/love relationship, we cant always deal with them, but ccant make a living without them.

the next project: farang in the fields in thailand.... just joking, no work permits for that job ....

bina

israel

[Kilgore Trout]

well, assaf is not the first; there is a religious guy from a kibbutz down south that did an amazing movie on thai workers and their families back home , including a follow up movie; it was on tv several times and i had been in contact with him several times, but in order to use/see the film for educational purposes , he requires payment (nothing is for free).

and, there is my own collection of photos at least six years worth of photographs/video clips that my daughter and i have taken,starting even previous to my marrying a thai worker; i was a mia noi to a thai worker from nong khai (who returned to his wife when his visa finished), and therefore im sure i have many many inside pics showing aspects of thai workers' lives that assaf would never get to see.

many pics also have my children in them, at thai gatherings, and my ex refused to allow them shown in public (israel is a small country and he didnt want to 'embarrass' himself or the kids by my association with the thai workers), so have kept them private until now. also my present husband , a thai, has major objections to seeing pics of certain people that he knew together with me (jeoulousy rears its ugly head).

much time has passed since then, and i have often considered doing an exhibit called issan in israel, but have no money for the moment to enlarge, frame and present the photos. the only exhibit we did was for my own kibbutz, at our (my husband and i) wedding party here, including a short movie, and lecture about the thai workers living here. my husband btw, thinks its an idiotic idea and refuses to cooperate in any way shape or form to help even with the thai embassy side of things (...

trust me, the workers are far from invisible nowadays, a moshav that we go to once a month has about 500+ thai workers and only about 90 israeli families. i often joke that if the thai workers go home, the moshav will be silent dark and lonely w/o the smell of thai food, the workers coming home in evening on the tractors, and the israeli kids shouting sawadee krap to the workers they have see daily for up to 10! years. they have a huge thai food store that supplies asian food products for all the area, and i foresee more and more relationships like mine, between israeli girls and thai guys . its ineveitable. its a real hate/love relationship, we cant always deal with them, but ccant make a living without them.

the next project: farang in the fields in thailand.... just joking, no work permits for that job ....

bina

israel

I'm glad to hear that maybe things are different; its been over 12 years since I was in Israel and I'm glad to see that Israelis are making connections with Thai people. I am however, a bit shocked that you would openly admit to cheating with a man who has a Thai (I presume) wife back home. My wife is Thai and even with all the temptation when we lived in Thailand I have never even considered cheating on her. I know how crushed she would be and I would never put her through that. I certainly feel sorry for the woman who's heart may be broken.

Cheers

[bina]

with the unspoken blessing from his wife: as long as he was here, i took care of him (and helped out stuff for his kids and house back in thailand)... she knew he wouldnt go to tel aviv to prostitutes. majority of men here are here for up to five years/or more w/o home visits so what do u expect them to do? also, a large percentage of guys here worked their butts off and when they got home, found their wives with newer bf/farang bf husbands.... our closest friend was here for 11 yrss (changed names/passports) finally, went home two months ago. his wife kept telling him to stay more as long as he could get visa extensions.

he sent money home and built a big house, pickup, kids in school... got home to korat and his muu baan and found wife living with new man (my husband and other friends here knew but didnt tell as did his parents). they chose to let him find out on his own)... he was no celibate iether as he had a philipina girl here for some of the time, however, he did love his wife and was not ever planning to stay with the filipina (together for convenience, but that is a typical and other story which ive written about often here)...

in my case, it was obvious that s. would go back home to nong khai and his wife (he ws a really sweet guy but a complete alcoholic and gambler, loved to sing, indirectly related to daeng kitikorn thru marriage, not much of a worker and lucky for me, fit my situation at the time as just purely a loving person, and i could help keep his money to him and his family and not get taken by his co workers who loved to 'water him down and rip him off)

i have to say that for both the men here and the wives back home it seems an impossible mission to be w/o their partner five/ten years no visits, or a visit of two months maximum... when the husband finally gets back home, the wife has already made her own rules/home setup, the man has to adjust... some men just dont last here and leave after three years, enough to return the loans, make some money and go home. many many more leave behind thai/filipina babies. an other friend had a mia noi here for 10 yrs, until the immigration caught up with the woman (filipina) and she returned home with his child to the philipines and he still sends m oney to from time to time.

others dont do anything. some go to prostitutes. im sure there are more that had israeli/foreign women as gf's until the visas finished although due to relgious differences, it seems to happen very rarely. one or two couples here broke up when the girl found the thai guy had a wife back home also...

anyhow,

bina

israel

there are filipina women here with children from different thai men, when the visa is up, the father goes home, the filipina stays as they have different visa set ups then the thais. nothing is ever ever what it seems from the outside.

[Kilgore Trout]

with the unspoken blessing from his wife: as long as he was here, i took care of him (and helped out stuff for his kids and house back in thailand)... she knew he wouldnt go to tel aviv to prostitutes. majority of men here are here for up to five years/or more w/o home visits so what do u expect them to do? also, a large percentage of guys here worked their butts off and when they got home, found their wives with newer bf/farang bf husbands.... our closest friend was here for 11 yrss (changed names/passports) finally, went home two months ago. his wife kept telling him to stay more as long as he could get visa extensions.

he sent money home and built a big house, pickup, kids in school... got home to korat and his muu baan and found wife living with new man (my husband and other friends here knew but didnt tell as did his parents). they chose to let him find out on his own)... he was no celibate iether as he had a philipina girl here for some of the time, however, he did love his wife and was not ever planning to stay with the filipina (together for convenience, but that is a typical and other story which ive written about often here)...

in my case, it was obvious that s. would go back home to nong khai and his wife (he ws a really sweet guy but a complete alcoholic and gambler, loved to sing, indirectly related to daeng kitikorn thru marriage, not much of a worker and lucky for me, fit my situation at the time as just purely a loving person, and i could help keep his money to him and his family and not get taken by his co workers who loved to 'water him down and rip him off)

i have to say that for both the men here and the wives back home it seems an impossible mission to be w/o their partner five/ten years no visits, or a visit of two months maximum... when the husband finally gets back home, the wife has already made her own rules/home setup, the man has to adjust... some men just dont last here and leave after three years, enough to return the loans, make some money and go home. many many more leave behind thai/filipina babies. an other friend had a mia noi here for 10 yrs, until the immigration caught up with the woman (filipina) and she returned home with his child to the philipines and he still sends m oney to from time to time.

others dont do anything. some go to prostitutes. im sure there are more that had israeli/foreign women as gf's until the visas finished although due to relgious differences, it seems to happen very rarely. one or two couples here broke up when the girl found the thai guy had a wife back home also...

anyhow,

bina

israel

there are filipina women here with children from different thai men, when the visa is up, the father goes home, the filipina stays as they have different visa set ups then the thais. nothing is ever ever what it seems from the outside.

Thanks for taking the time to reply; I do understand although I think we are getting into some very moral grey areas, I didn't mean to point the finger at you or anything though.

I was apart from my wife for 14 months last year; I had to come back to the states for work and her visa couldn't be processed in time, so we had to wait. It wasn't a problem for us to remain faithful for that time, though we missed eachother terribly. I never for a minute considered cheating and neither did she, and yes, I do trust her implicitly, she is certainly not a bargirl or anything, she is a teacher. Anyway, if we had to wait another 4 years to see eachother I think I would not have cheated on her.

I wonder though, in 5 years they never tried to see eachother, why couldn't she live with him in Israel or at least they could have saved for a round trip ticket and he could have gone home for a visit.

I may accept a job overseas this fall and of course my wife is coming with me, even though where we are going may be completely boring for her. We would never consider being apart again.

[Lammbock]

Nice, very nice. But in some way also very sad....

[bina]

in 5 years they never tried to see eachother, why couldn't she live with him in Israel

legally impossible. the workers come over after paying up to 10000 dollars to get visa and work permits; they are brought over to work only. they can go visit, on their own money, once, but most choose not to since it costs so much and the price of the entry visa/the uncertainity of being able to get back in, paying the price of the ticket etc are very high. some manage to get visas for their wives but the living conditions and work dont always fit the women and one woman living with 20 men can cause jealousy and fighting...

very few couple manage to work together, they are often sent to different moshavs to work, they have no choice int he matter of where they are sent to work, and they cannot change places unless they have an employer that is willing to do all the major paperwork, money and visa legwork needed to move to an other employer.

there are close to 30 000 thai workers here, the majority are men, almost all in the same boat and a large amount have had their wives/gf's leave them for greener pastures. for the most part, the men here may have women on the side, but i only knew one who actually had a mia noi thai girl here, who went back to thailand and kept up with her, had a child by her, and splits his time between the two women. (his wife decided that money is better then no husband at all).

as far as living conditions, majority in fairly squalid conditions but i have to say, a percentage of squalidness is because it is groups fo men living together, working everyday with no time or inclination if there is time, to actually clean up where they live. salaries and work conditions arent wonderful, but often, again, the thai choose to not use/abide by the rules/suggestions of safety gear even when provided and trained about the gear. the alcoholism rate is about 90 percent!!! with a lot of their hard earned money being drunk up or gambled off in hi/lo games or gray lottery via telephone to thailand. they get screwed over in their salaries, but also, when we've tried to interfere or help, we find out that they lose patience and get up and leave to become w/o visa before the problem can be rectified since they loose patience for the buerocracy to work though.

a few years ago, i was more gung ho wanting to help out. with time, ive become cynical since either the new groups of thai are more savvy and are becoming better at using and abusing the system, or they screw themselves over. we have been trying to help someone for three months and now that finally the situation is about to resolve legally, to move him to a better employer (my kibutz, actually) he has lost patience and has taken off so that all the time and energy that many poeple put in to get the paperwork in order are now left with a work spot open to a thai worker but no worker to fill it. and sadly, he will be picked up since he is not very 'citywise' , and he still owes lots of money in thailand to the manpower company there. he probably morgatged off his land and also, he was scammed by an other thai who asked him to put money in account in thailand and this ex thai worker would help organize a new employer. since the scam activated in thailand, he couldnt press charges here. apparently this is a good scam among the thai workers nowadays: the veterans find 'new meat', provide 'help' for a sum paid in thailand, and then the 'help' disappears.

im sure that i have more photos than anyone else in israel since i always take pics; and since im married to a thai, the employers dont care if i take photos since they dont feel that i am representing any worker groups or news reporters. i did have film ripped out of my old camera by angry, aggressive, gun wielding employers when i went with a lawyer to photo inhuman conditions in a location south from my home (later they had their workers rehomed elsewhere until they built suitable living quarters, when the embassy stepped in). therefore, since i go everywhere with my husband, i have avoided identifying the exact locations of most of the photos since the thai motto is always: 'dont make trouble' .

as for u waiting four years for your wife, i think that for the most part, it is as difficult for the wife as it is for the husband to be without human contact for such a long time in such hard conditions so i am the last person to be judgemental but the nature of the world is that often families have to split up to earn enough for a decent life. btw, the israeli visa/immigration people require us i.e. israeli citizen (me) married to foreign person(anon), to live together, all the time. we cannot have a lifestle where the partner comes home only on weekends for instance and they actually do check that out.

whats more interesting now is if the present situation will prevent the workers that should be coming over this coming month now that visas have been sorted and approved and employers have their quotas approved, and how the situation will affect the large groups of thais living together. up til now, the biggest problems have been issaan thai against southern/central/city thai and/or khmer thai including bullying, fights, stabbings, and just plain ignoring withing the group (we have one like this here, he is from buriram and the other guys are all korat or udon, and they just dont share stuff with him and dont like him, because he is khmer)....

amazing thailand right here in my backyard... hope tis didnt bore u.... and good luck to u and your wife; may u never be in the same situation as these guys.

bina

israel

some pics from a moshav with aobut 500 workers , all with different employers (20+- to a group) at a string tying party; their mor lum band; self built living quarters....

[katana]

Nice pics.

www.asaffr.com

[Kilgore Trout]

in 5 years they never tried to see eachother, why couldn't she live with him in Israel

legally impossible. the workers come over after paying up to 10000 dollars to get visa and work permits; they are brought over to work only. they can go visit, on their own money, once, but most choose not to since it costs so much and the price of the entry visa/the uncertainity of being able to get back in, paying the price of the ticket etc are very high. some manage to get visas for their wives but the living conditions and work dont always fit the women and one woman living with 20 men can cause jealousy and fighting...

very few couple manage to work together, they are often sent to different moshavs to work, they have no choice int he matter of where they are sent to work, and they cannot change places unless they have an employer that is willing to do all the major paperwork, money and visa legwork needed to move to an other employer.

there are close to 30 000 thai workers here, the majority are men, almost all in the same boat and a large amount have had their wives/gf's leave them for greener pastures. for the most part, the men here may have women on the side, but i only knew one who actually had a mia noi thai girl here, who went back to thailand and kept up with her, had a child by her, and splits his time between the two women. (his wife decided that money is better then no husband at all).

as far as living conditions, majority in fairly squalid conditions but i have to say, a percentage of squalidness is because it is groups fo men living together, working everyday with no time or inclination if there is time, to actually clean up where they live. salaries and work conditions arent wonderful, but often, again, the thai choose to not use/abide by the rules/suggestions of safety gear even when provided and trained about the gear. the alcoholism rate is about 90 percent!!! with a lot of their hard earned money being drunk up or gambled off in hi/lo games or gray lottery via telephone to thailand. they get screwed over in their salaries, but also, when we've tried to interfere or help, we find out that they lose patience and get up and leave to become w/o visa before the problem can be rectified since they loose patience for the buerocracy to work though.

a few years ago, i was more gung ho wanting to help out. with time, ive become cynical since either the new groups of thai are more savvy and are becoming better at using and abusing the system, or they screw themselves over. we have been trying to help someone for three months and now that finally the situation is about to resolve legally, to move him to a better employer (my kibutz, actually) he has lost patience and has taken off so that all the time and energy that many poeple put in to get the paperwork in order are now left with a work spot open to a thai worker but no worker to fill it. and sadly, he will be picked up since he is not very 'citywise' , and he still owes lots of money in thailand to the manpower company there. he probably morgatged off his land and also, he was scammed by an other thai who asked him to put money in account in thailand and this ex thai worker would help organize a new employer. since the scam activated in thailand, he couldnt press charges here. apparently this is a good scam among the thai workers nowadays: the veterans find 'new meat', provide 'help' for a sum paid in thailand, and then the 'help' disappears.

im sure that i have more photos than anyone else in israel since i always take pics; and since im married to a thai, the employers dont care if i take photos since they dont feel that i am representing any worker groups or news reporters. i did have film ripped out of my old camera by angry, aggressive, gun wielding employers when i went with a lawyer to photo inhuman conditions in a location south from my home (later they had their workers rehomed elsewhere until they built suitable living quarters, when the embassy stepped in). therefore, since i go everywhere with my husband, i have avoided identifying the exact locations of most of the photos since the thai motto is always: 'dont make trouble' .

as for u waiting four years for your wife, i think that for the most part, it is as difficult for the wife as it is for the husband to be without human contact for such a long time in such hard conditions so i am the last person to be judgemental but the nature of the world is that often families have to split up to earn enough for a decent life. btw, the israeli visa/immigration people require us i.e. israeli citizen (me) married to foreign person(anon), to live together, all the time. we cannot have a lifestle where the partner comes home only on weekends for instance and they actually do check that out.

whats more interesting now is if the present situation will prevent the workers that should be coming over this coming month now that visas have been sorted and approved and employers have their quotas approved, and how the situation will affect the large groups of thais living together. up til now, the biggest problems have been issaan thai against southern/central/city thai and/or khmer thai including bullying, fights, stabbings, and just plain ignoring withing the group (we have one like this here, he is from buriram and the other guys are all korat or udon, and they just dont share stuff with him and dont like him, because he is khmer)....

amazing thailand right here in my backyard... hope tis didnt bore u.... and good luck to u and your wife; may u never be in the same situation as these guys.

bina

israel

some pics from a moshav with aobut 500 workers , all with different employers (20+- to a group) at a string tying party; their mor lum band; self built living quarters....

Wow, I think I get the picture. Its terrible that the Israeli govt. would put practices in place that seem to rip families apart like this. In the states legal migrant workers (the key word here is legal) can easily bring their family once they get here who enjoy all the benefits of our society (health care, schools etc.) I guess that since they can no longer exploit the Arabs they are moving to exploit the Thais (and its really a shame the way I have seen many Israelis act in Thailand, like its their own backyard). I hope they get their act together as Thais deserve better (btw, I never knew they had to pay their own work permit etc. thats shameful). Nice pics though

[bina]

not israelis exploiting fully; it sthe thai manpower companies that are based in large cities in udon thani korat and buriram that are the ones charging the fees ; the israeli side also gets its share but they have to go thru the thai companies in thailand first... including super large amounts of tea money.

nothing to do with arabs either.... arabs that work in agriculture are exploited by the rich arab rais (like big bosses) that get the labour from over the green line, deal with visas and work quoatas for them.

in israel exploitation crosses all religious and ethnic boundries unfortunatey and ot connected to racial groups but to whom u know in your work place.

as for the israelis in thailand: most are out of army kids breaking loose after four years of rigid life style...

as for the states u obvouisly dont follow worker organizations like i do: in the states, thai migrant workers have worse treatment as they dont get houseing and are moved around constantly from state to state for the various fruit/veggie picking. they are not allowed out of rooms once finished work, often are not paid and have various and sundry 'payments' for nonexistant damages/electriity /food costs. there was a celebrated case a few years ago about thaiw orkers that had been locked in a huge factory for years , when relatives tried to find out about their whereabouts they were lied to. eventually the case came to court (u can google the case i dont remember the case number)and they were released. when trying to locate a friend working for a huge manpower company, i was given the runaround, only by intervention of someone here from the state where he was was able to locate the guy for me... many years ago... (hawaii, and a member from here helped me). i had appealed to the israeli worker help organization here and she told me that they were part of a huge manpower organization involving thailand, states and isrealis also... case pending as of now (most cases fizzle out as the companies get closed down, change names and 'owners' and re open as a new improved version of itself-- try looking up global manpower services)

other legal migrant workers are in the same boat.

in most nations except for finland (heard first hand from thais in finland picking berries there conditions are fairly good)migrant labour get screwed over, and families are definately not invited nor do they get services .

the thai workers in taiwan , if a wife/gf gets pregnant, must abort or go back to thailand (first hand info);

as for health services here, thai and non thai get the same shitty health services; just he thai dont trust the israeli doctors who dont give pills for every little thing and so the thais tend to self treat *penicilin' the favorite drug of the workers.. as is vodka )

husband has friends from korat waiting for a year!! paying huge sums of tea money waiting for a work visa for migrant labour in the building industry in portugal... the thais going to kuwait do not /cannot bring families either.

no country wants the children of migrant workers to support, including the states. perhaps u are thinking of hi tech labour in which case it is the companys good will to bring the family over?

the families that do come over, come over little by little as additional workers (friend brings a friend/cousin). same as here. we have guys that are cousins of the guys that were here 10 years ago.. and a big brother of someone else.

and im talking legal labour.

more pics:

the guy next to my daughter ws my partner for the time he was here... that was a party for my birthday

notice the thai flag AND the flag of the Monks on top of the cucumber packing house; dont know how they managed to get flags, we never get any here; guess we dont have enough thais in this area for the embassy to give us any...the packing house is part of the large thai compound there including a thai food store providing pigs, eels and other delcicasies that most isreali stores wont ever have!!

the employer allowed the work leader to build himself a private house behind the housing compound; just like a thai isaan house!!