Clashes Continue, Turning Central Bangkok In Virtual Warzone

[OzMick]

I am seeing these reports and videos of "hundreds" of bullets being fired. I saw one video of a soldier replacing his empty magazine with another. Doesn't it seem the reported deaths and injuries are very low for all this shooting? Are these guys the worst shots in the world or is something else going on? Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see more people being shot, but it just doesn't add up.

OMG! HE CHANGED AN EMPTY MAGAZINE, AND GOT CAUGHT ON VIDEO! In most conflicts, it is normal for literally 100's of rounds to be fired per hit, especially with conscript troops or americans doing the shooting. I would expect each M-16 rifleman to be carrying close to 300 rounds.

[LivinLOS]

I'm a bit concerned about the foreign reporter being shot by the army after he clearly called for help and they knew he was a foreign reporter...

From how it looks to me, he was wearing a BLACK shirt and NO green armband to signify he was with the media, and he was moving around amongst other protesters.

The conscripts are in the midst an urban battle - there's a lot of confusion and chaos as it without innocent people getting mixed in. I think he should have known better when deciding what to wear. The conscripts are not particularly well trained and under enormous pressure being in this situation with similarly dressed people firing off different types of weaponry at them.

I didn't see anything to suggest the army KNEW he was a foreign reporter. Definitely not at that distance either.

I am not making an excuse for the army... it was unacceptable. But haven't seen anything to suggest he was targeted because he was a journalist. More like they failed in properly identifying a threat and having effective fire control.

He should have freaken known to wear something different.

But soldiers are only firing into the air or in self defense right ??

So exactly what mortal threat did this unarmed man present while rolling around on the floor begging for help ??

[LevelHead]

Video footage here of Nelson Rand being shot, make of it what you will but for me this is the most damming video to come out in the last two months.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

Why is the idiot dressed in black wearing sunglasses with no visable signs of him being a reporter.Has he got shit for brains or did he think he was immune to bullets.

No green armband, no clear idea of who shot him, and he's standing in the middle of a gun battle..... sorry, but I don't feel sorry for him.

I thought "international standards" would dictate someone lying on the floor screaming for help, waving their hands for help should not be shot.

Obviously Abhisit and his Democrat/Bhumjaitai coalition governments idea is that this is fine ? They are in charge, the army are only carrying out their orders given by the government.

16 dead - all protesters.

Shot with live ammo.

So who is using live ammo ?

Soldiers shot dead according to reports ? Zero

Who is using lethal force in an indiscriminate way ? Government side.

[saintofsilence]

Hate to say it but if these reds don't back off the death toll will rise dramatically possibly into the hundreds.

[moetownblues]

Video footage here of Nelson Rand being shot, make of it what you will but for me this is the most damming video to come out in the last two months.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

Why is the idiot dressed in black wearing sunglasses with no visable signs of him being a reporter.Has he got shit for brains or did he think he was immune to bullets.

Regardless of who or what he is this was a wounded human being calling for help. Is the yellow shirt response to put the animal out of it's misery. civilised humans will help the injured not try and put then down. This was blatant attempted murder.

[noel2499rk]

Video footage here of Nelson Rand being shot, make of it what you will but for me this is the most damming video to come out in the last two months.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

or it could be this one that gets the award

reds shooting a soldier

Thanks for the link hadn't seen it before even though I've been watching TNN all day, is it from TNN?

I'll graciously concede the title of most damming to you.

[beejoir]

16 dead.

No soldiers.

Who is using "live ammo" ?

Certainly looks like its just the Government side, those who should be trying to stop violence and killing, but they are the ones doing the killing.

Thnk God no soldiers dead, otherways ...........

Or do you think your FREEDUMB fighters friends will back you

Up until yesterday 1/3 of people killed in this conflict were either police or soldiers, I don't think they are taking any chances any more, as its obvious that the protests aren't as peaceful as they are made out to be.

[neverdie]

Video footage here of Nelson Rand being shot, make of it what you will but for me this is the most damming video to come out in the last two months.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

or it could be this one that gets the award

reds shooting a soldier

Thanks for the link hadn't seen it before even though I've been watching TNN all day, is it from TNN?

I'll graciously concede the title of most damming to you.

Did you really hold the title in the first place noel?

[saintofsilence]

I'm a bit concerned about the foreign reporter being shot by the army after he clearly called for help and they knew he was a foreign reporter...

From how it looks to me, he was wearing a BLACK shirt and NO green armband to signify he was with the media, and he was moving around amongst other protesters.

The conscripts are in the midst an urban battle - there's a lot of confusion and chaos as it without innocent people getting mixed in. I think he should have known better when deciding what to wear. The conscripts are not particularly well trained and under enormous pressure being in this situation with similarly dressed people firing off different types of weaponry at them.

I didn't see anything to suggest the army KNEW he was a foreign reporter. Definitely not at that distance either.

I am not making an excuse for the army... it was unacceptable. But haven't seen anything to suggest he was targeted because he was a journalist. More like they failed in properly identifying a threat and having effective fire control.

He should have freaken known to wear something different.

But soldiers are only firing into the air or in self defense right ??

So exactly what mortal threat did this unarmed man present while rolling around on the floor begging for help ??

Not only self defense i think they have the authority to shoot any person who is illegally armed.

[Tejas]

If you would like news about what is happening, go here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-...tu-t365300.html

[daboyz1]

16 dead.

No soldiers.

Who is using "live ammo" ?

Certainly looks like its just the Government side, those who should be trying to stop violence and killing, but they are the ones doing the killing.

I know I'm gonna regret asking you this, but how can you possibly take sides with common criminals? That's all they really are. They hide behind what they say is political reform, when in actuality all they want is their paymaster back in Thailand and pardoned for his numerous criminal convictions/charges. I mean what's your angle here? If you have a clear thinking mind, you can't support these thugs. Are you possibly being paid to post here? If you are, cheers!

[BKjohn]

Watched an interesting discussion last night by a group of Thai's - the consensus was very much the same. Abhisit has no choice but to go through with this. He can not allow anymore half arsed actions by the army. The time has come to put an end to the occupation of Bangkok. The Thai's are fat up with those morons dictating their lives. They pointed out how some of the red shirt leaders jumped at the "road map' for an acceptable way out and everybody breathed a sigh of relieve. but within a couple of day's, unreasonable demands were issued by some of the rd leaders who were not going to accept anything but surrender from the government. By doing so putting an end to negotiations.

They agreed that if anyone is to blame for any casualties. it is the red leadership and their General Thaksin.

One point they raised was that the red shirt leaders would not be able to walk the streets anymore without a large group of body guards because they have many enemies now and not only among the "elite", but also the normal Thai on the street who has been severely affected by all this anarchy.

Found this quite refreshing to listen to Thai's who were quite objective about the whole thing, having an intelligent discussion when compared to the redist morons here on the forum.

Edited May 15, 2010 by BKjohn

[timekeeper]

Video footage here of Nelson Rand being shot, make of it what you will but for me this is the most damming video to come out in the last two months.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

Why is the idiot dressed in black wearing sunglasses with no visable signs of him being a reporter.Has he got shit for brains or did he think he was immune to bullets.

No green armband, no clear idea of who shot him, and he's standing in the middle of a gun battle..... sorry, but I don't feel sorry for him.

I thought "international standards" would dictate someone lying on the floor screaming for help, waving their hands for help should not be shot.

Obviously Abhisit and his Democrat/Bhumjaitai coalition governments idea is that this is fine ? They are in charge, the army are only carrying out their orders given by the government.

16 dead - all protesters.

Shot with live ammo.

So who is using live ammo ?

Soldiers shot dead according to reports ? Zero

Who is using lethal force in an indiscriminate way ? Government side.

red side

[animatic]

16 dead.

No soldiers.

Who is using "live ammo" ?

Certainly looks like its just the Government side, those who should be trying to stop violence and killing, but they are the ones doing the killing.

BOTH SIDES ARE USING LIVE AMMMO.

[Steely Dan]

There is now evidence of army shooting people waving white flags, army shooting children, army shooting red shirts in the head (how many are dead now from bullet wounds?).

This is not "international standards" and shows just how desperate that Abhisit and the Democrat/Bhumjaitai coalition are to cling to power and money at all costs......

Can you please point out, at what stage in the video, anyone was being shot.

And children??? You are part of the red propaganda parade, aren't you!!!

He'll no doubt only be happy when there's a complete Maoist takeover, then he'll have to put his keyboard down and plant rice. These red apologists are incapable as always of seeing a chain of cause and effect more than two links long but only see as far as removing the current government.

[jcbangkok]

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

No. Not footage of him *being* shot.

Footage of him lying on the ground *after* having been shot.

Actually, if you watch carefully, he apparently gets shot in the leg @ 0:017-18. Even the narrator of the video indicates that.

Reds clearly should not be shooting reporters but why is this moron not wearing any protective gear or displaying in any way he is a reporter.

[datum]

It is #3 that is in play, among other things. The current government DID call for early elections and that was agreed to by the protesters. The protesters subsequently reneged on that agreement due to their funder and chief, a fugitive from Thai justice pulling the plug on the agreement. They have since stepped up violent acts and the survival of the state itself hangs in the balance. There is no loyal opposition. A loyal opposition is fundamental to the election process, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, and I have to say that I was quite supportive of the PM's proposal for elections on November. And then, two days ago he decided that he will call the elections off because "the reds didn't keep their promises". Are we serious? If the reds are a mob of criminals as the government says was anyone expecting that they will keep their promises? What about a statement saying "I go with the plan for election on November and at the same time I take all legal measures to stop the demonstrations". He is the PM of a country, he is not a kid that will abandon his toy just to break the toy of the other kid! Generally I like him, he seems a calm, educated person but his governance style doesn't work out! It is to "amateur". It is not aboung being patient as some members say, I think it is about being non-decisive at all! When you are a PM, and especially one that want to bring change in a country, you have to make difficult but necessary decission. And these decisions have not been made so far IMHO.

There are really only two ways to proceed in Thailand. There is Abhisit's way, which may not succeed, whereby you try to neutralize all the variables in a highly entropic situation as the country undergoes the only succession its people have ever experienced, OR you let the military take over, who may not relinquish power after the succession. Those are the choices. You might imagine there are many other choices but really there are not if Thailand is to not become a failed state.

Sorry but you are completely wrong here regarding the basis of your argument "Abhisit or the Army". The choice is "Politics or the Army". Just by saying that only one politician can do things right you cancel the main principle of democracy which is that everyone has the right to govern.

My country made the mistake to create a similar dilemma almost 50 years ago "Mister X or the Army" instead of "Politicians or the Army". We made our choices and such a mess happened that we pay the consequences until today;

[neverdie]

why do people keep posting the same video's over and over again? Didnt they notice them used umpteen other times in the thread

[LuckyLew]

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

No. Not footage of him *being* shot.

Footage of him lying on the ground *after* having been shot.

Actually, if you watch carefully, he apparently gets shot in the leg @ 0:017-18. Even the narrator of the video indicates that.

OK. I didn't have audio.

Would a shot from that close (the army) have caused more damage?

Sorry, I've only ever been shot once, I'm not an expert ballistics guru. Of course in the video we don't get to see the shooter, where he is standing and what he is using. Getting shot can be quite a painful experience, perhaps next time the reporter will take greater care, remembering that self preservation rules over the scoop story or photograph. Definately should of been wearing a green armband

If you are a reporter in a war zone you are welll aware of the risks

If you are a freelance reporter ... you are on your own

If you are with a news group ... you sign waivers

If you a reporter told to wear a green band in this war zone and

you choose not to ... too bad so sad

If you get shot ... all part of the job description in being a reporter

in a war zone. He choose to be there, he choose to not wear green

arm band ... he paid the price ... too bad so sad

[benthai98]

or it could be this one that gets the award

reds shooting a soldier

I wonder what response levelhead will have for this? Pretty disgusting really.

[neverdie]

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

No. Not footage of him *being* shot.

Footage of him lying on the ground *after* having been shot.

Actually, if you watch carefully, he apparently gets shot in the leg @ 0:017-18. Even the narrator of the video indicates that.

Reds clearly should not be shooting reporters but why is this moron not wearing any protective gear or displaying in any way he is a reporter.

especially considering he's such an experienced reporter and all that.

[noel2499rk]

Video footage here of Nelson Rand being shot, make of it what you will but for me this is the most damming video to come out in the last two months.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

or it could be this one that gets the award

reds shooting a soldier

Thanks for the link hadn't seen it before even though I've been watching TNN all day, is it from TNN?

I'll graciously concede the title of most damming to you.

Did you really hold the title in the first place noel?

Yes I gave it to myself but it only lasted one post.

[neverdie]

LOL @ noel

[Jerrytheyoung]

Video footage here of Nelson Rand being shot, make of it what you will but for me this is the most damming video to come out in the last two months.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

Very damning.

Abhisit and his Democrat/Bhumjathai coalition just get more and more blood on their hands as they try to cling to power regardless to the loss of life.

Abhisit?????? The Army is shooting because they got shot? All that exchange of fire, yesterday. Peaceful demonstrators who got shot by the evil army can not exchange fire, because they don't have guns!

Forgot April 10? 200 Army injured. Forgot all the videos of the black Ronin?

No question that some soldiers, most are almost children, overreact sometimes.

no guns?

on TNN24 i saw protestors making and carrying molotov cocktails and then they focused in on two individuals with poorly disguised assault rifles at their sides who promptly ran away when they saw the camera on them.

on Al Jazeera they have video of reds with handguns

so much for these poor peaceful protestors.......

Yes, we are heading to he Civil war, because of manipulations to create a coalition with a majority, even if it seems "legal".IMHO, the best thing to do for stopping the march to hel_l is to give back power to people immediately: immediate dissolution of parliament and elections.

It is the only way, it is still possible to stop the gearing to violence, but tomorrow or in very few days it will be too late....

[saintofsilence]

16 dead.

No soldiers.

Who is using "live ammo" ?

Certainly looks like its just the Government side, those who should be trying to stop violence and killing, but they are the ones doing the killing.

I know I'm gonna regret asking you this, but how can you possibly take sides with common criminals? That's all they really are. They hide behind what they say is political reform, when in actuality all they want is their paymaster back in Thailand and pardoned for his numerous criminal convictions/charges. I mean what's your angle here? If you have a clear thinking mind, you can't support these thugs. Are you possibly being paid to post here? If you are, cheers!

Also mr un levelhead the army are using live amo on these armed thugs who were warned before anyone armed and threatening will be shot.

what do you want the army to do hide in tress and let them take over

I really don't know why people respond to you .

[BLUENILE]

There is now evidence of army shooting people waving white flags, army shooting children, army shooting red shirts in the head (how many are dead now from bullet wounds?).

This is not "international standards" and shows just how desperate that Abhisit and the Democrat/Bhumjaitai coalition are to cling to power and money at all costs......

Can you please point out, at what stage in the video, anyone was being shot.

And children??? You are part of the red propaganda parade, aren't you!!!

Peaceful demonstrators?

If you protest with violence you will get violence in return.

[noahvail]

Video footage here of Nelson Rand being shot, make of it what you will but for me this is the most damming video to come out in the last two months.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

Indeed.

I was especially taken with the red shirt with ban fai strapped to his back on the back bumper of a white pickup emblazoned with multiple large red crosses.

I guess nobody told him that the army was not allowed to shoot at such vehicles.

Or maybe somebody did.

[whybother]

Video footage here of Nelson Rand being shot, make of it what you will but for me this is the most damming video to come out in the last two months.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

or it could be this one that gets the award

reds shooting a soldier

Has there been any reports on the number of injured soldiers?

@LevelHead

Just because there are no dead soldiers doesn't mean the the reds aren't shooting back.

The soldiers learnt there lesson from April 10, so took a few more precautions this time around.

This time the soldiers didn't go in during dark, because they knew the Ronins were still in there. Smart move.

[timekeeper]

why do people keep posting the same video's over and over again? Didnt they notice them used umpteen other times in the thread

its to try to solicit a red spin answer from the red sympathisers on this board

they spout their red head rhetoric over and over but never answer when confronted with conflicting information

you may not have noticed but you have to tell the reds the same thing over and over before you get any kind of response

Red Head syndrome does that to you

Edited May 15, 2010 by timekeeper

[datum]

I answered partially in my other post but let me make one more time things more clear. And PLEASE try to read my posts not as a supporter of reds or yellows but as a "third person".

You may read my posts as a red supporter who believes they are being led as lambs to slaughter by a violent megalomaniacal madman.

The fundamental purpose of a government is the maintenance of basic security and public order. Agree. When a government faces such a big political crisis that has seriously threaten public order it has one option. To restore order with all possible legal means and to put people that are breaking the law in jail. Agree. In fact this is the first government to even attempt that. If the government can not do this it means more or less that is is not capable to manage a country I disagree. The PM inherited a government with wholly incompetent, corrupt and disloyal parties. This crisis is flushing them out and he is making adjustments as necessary in about as stressful an environment as can be imagined. It may not appear like it but he has made progress. and it should seek re-assurance from the public. And that was IMHO the reason behind the PM's proposal for election on November. The people have trusted you to do a job if you can not do the job you have to ask again your people if they trust you or if they want to try something else. It sounds very simplistic but it is the essence of democratic governance. I think your first sentence is the essence of democratic government. Without it, elections don't mean very much.

Another point I'd like to make. Earlier tonight there were rumors circulating that the Deputy PM had been shot in the head by the Army. No corroboration so it probably didn't happen, but there isn't anyone reading this that doesn't believe that it is possible something like that could happen right now. That is not a climate for elections. Especially elections not due.

PS: I have to go to sleep now so I am sorry but I'll not be able to post more tonight. I promise that I'll come back Good night to everybody. Good Night.

Of course I can not convince you because you are so poisoned with the fight between specific persons (Abhisit, Thaksin etc.) that you can not see that everyone is doing mistakes in this story. As you can see in my posts I believe that the right is somewhere in the middle (which is the usual situation in political crisis) but you obviously have your agenda with Abhisit, Thaksin or whoever else.