Clashes Continue, Turning Central Bangkok In Virtual Warzone

[rabo]

Jerry --- you are Red. You have always excused the red threats of violence as "negotiations". You have failed to speak out against the red use of violence and instead have excused it as being needed for change and then added historical references to the French revolution AND to violent mobs using force as part of negotiations in France and other parts of Europe. It is when the reds get HURT that you speak about peace.

The reds had a great deal offered to them. They wanted elections. They wanted investigations into April 10th, they wanted and wanted. They were offered what they wanted then added more and would not go home. They called for violence and then vowed to fight to the death. You called it "negotiations". Now that they have the violence THEY called for from the red stage .......

Your claim to non-partisanship is not true --- one has only to read your posts. You are Red.

If asking for PEACE and no deaths is beeing red then I am red too and so is

most of the rest of the world , including a vast majority of thais .

Go on Jerry ....

Asking for peace and no deaths is Thai, but, Thaksin's red has come to mean armed insurgency, blowing up the country's infrastructure, invading hospitals, and is synonymous with M79 grenades, not to mention overt calls for destroying the country.

If you believe that the general Thai population, given their culture, supports any of this violence you are sadly mistaken.

Western models of downtrodden class upheaval tearing down the evil elite 'system' surely don't compute here, it ain't going to happen that way, and those who are comforted by such wet dreams are sure to be disappointed. Such a model fits here about as well as a group of Thai spiritual doctors in front of Wall Street waving their penis shaped talismans in an effort to cure the economic woes of the corrupt western financial system.

[silk]

sweet - way to align yourselves with a group using elderly woman and children as human shields. Hey shouldn't the "leaders" of your side be turning themselves in today?

Human shields are people that are neutral civilians and used by terrorists (i mean real terrorists) for protection .

Those women and elderly are not neutral , they are protesting on their own free will .

Nobody force them . This is a popular protest by people , and people do not only include

male 19-25 years old

Please cut the BS

children should do what they are told

[pornsasi]

I might suggest that you cut the bs sir. I noticed you left the children out but Im sure your next post will describe them as willing protestors wel informed of why they are there and what they are protesting for - Im not sure ANY of the reds know why they are REALLY there. Also how many have had their IDs taken from them and are there under threat and intimidation? You had it right mate they are real terrorists and when a ten year old boy gets shot directly from the actions of one of your terrorists trying to run a road block you can stand back and say look how evil the govt is.

In US or Europe i saw many protests having mothers with children . I concurr its a mistake .

They should not do that , just that they are not the only one mvt doing that .

Terrorist are ppl putting bombs in public places to kill tens of innocent civilians , or shooting

at those civilians . I really wonder who are the terrorists here on that account ?

Protesting against perceived injustice is not terrorism.

If the reds were terrorists the foreign press would have said so . None of them did .

[jdinasia]

Very interesting translations from some Thai journalist at the center of it all last night. Reds are armed and use flashlights in some ways to target and any photographer using a flash had bullets fired straight at them. It is being translated by Veen on twitter

Hmmmm and journalists are now scared to go behind red lines ..... It seems people DO learn! The reds are suspected of killing their own on April 10th (the ronin shooting other reds) for sympathy. It is not surprising that they would like to see more journo's shot to try and get more attention.

Edited May 15, 2010 by jdinasia

[gregb]

Fair comment.

I also do not wish to see people killed or injured. However this has gone on long enough and everyone is getting exasperated.

Key ppoint is this though:

Not one red shirt has come on here and explained what they want to ses a government do for them. OK, they want a different government. So what? Please ctell us what they want.

It seems to me that Abhisit and Co have done some very positive things for the Isaan people. I won't bother to list them here but I can if you wish.

So, go on, tell us what peoplke are willing to die for.........

One completely logical and realistic way forward would be for the reds to set a policy agenda and let this government, the legitimate government, try and come up with a compromise that enacts it. You don't need to have your guy in power to get policies enacted that help you.

That would be democracy, and there is enough support in the general population that any radical element trying to hamper that compromise would be over ruled.

Reds will never go for it. The blood thirsty lot of them only want power and don't care how many people they have to kill to get it.

Best thing is just to crush them now before they start causing real damage to the country. It will be bloody, sure. But the reds make it inevitable and it is the least bloody way forward. Sure there will be terrorist cells that rise up in the ashes. Have to crush them as well.

I seriously doubt there is support in the general population for a protracted battle. The rural poor are manipulated sure, but they aren't that far gone like the red extremists on this board. This "battle" is about a bloodthirsty and very wealthy red group intent on destroying the country. Those who love Thailand and the Thai people can not and will not let that happen.

[jcbangkok]

Dude! What is up with yours and others inability to use the reply button or need to edit quotes incorrectly?!?!? You make responding to your posts with any understanding impossible

[pimay11]

THE NATION: Nuttawut called for ceasefire. He said at least 7 more people have been killed today.

Thaksin tweeted that govt "will end up as war criminals in the int'l criminal court."

Mr. T will be the first in line. 2,500+ murders on his orders without arrest warrents or a chance to defend themselves in a court of law. This piece of scum (not man) is such a hypocrite.

[lungmi]

Quit your crying Farang.

You do not like the fight, Thailand does not care what you think.

You want cheap women and cheap beer, go somewhere else.

Thailand has a major fight on its hands and your nonsense about hating this group or that is dull.

Reds will win.

It might be in one week or 1 year or 3 years but they will win.

People who do not run when shot at are highly motivated. The Reds

Since most in the military are Reds, it is only a matter of time before the entire government regime collapses.

Bye Bye old way and hello new.

Now we have Taliban trained posters?

[Steely Dan]

From the news clippings forum:

THE NATION: Nuttawut called for ceasefire. He said at least 7 more people have been killed today.

In other words he can feel the noose tightening around his neck and is desperately looking for a way out having no doubt been counting on reds from elsewhere breaking the blockade allowing the red leadership to be smuggled out up country dressed as women no doubt stopping at every McDonalds between Bangkok and Udon.

[neverdie]

Thaksin tweeted that govt "will end up as war criminals in the int'l criminal court."

I read it, then re-read it. I just can't believe he actually typed this .

[silk]

sweet - way to align yourselves with a group using elderly woman and children as human shields. Hey shouldn't the "leaders" of your side be turning themselves in today?

Human shields are people that are neutral civilians and used by terrorists (i mean real terrorists) for protection .

Those women and elderly are not neutral , they are protesting on their own free will .

Nobody force them . This is a popular protest by people , and people do not only include

male 19-25 years old

Please cut the BS

they are there for money, if it was not for the promise of a pay day they would be back at home doing nothing.

Oh yes sure . . They are risking their lives for 500 bahts per day .

Any other "smart" suggestion ?

no

[jcbangkok]

Quesion: Anyone know whats happening with the Police at the moment, are they still involved in the conflicts? sided with the reds? or have they gotten out?

First there would need to be some proof they switched sides before there can be proof they got out.

[NaiGreg]

We know the numbers of holed-up Reds are NOT increasing.

But are they decreasing? There must be some who have decided to get out while they still can.

Any reports?

[seahorse]

Where is little Oak these days?

Hong Kong.

[littleMo]

to quote Clint Eastwood -- "it hel_l of a job to kill a man... it takes all he's got.. " may be not the exact words ..still..

Those guys under those Army uniforms are humans as well ... they are no robots... maybe they don't want to do it quickly and decisively...

and stop branding people red/yellow apologist pls... some of us here just want no more deaths... no Reds, no Yellow and no Armymen ...

Yes, I have been thinking about this too. I have read many posts about how the police and army in Western countries would have been more hardline, and I think that is true. I think it is true because most of the quasi-psychopathic types that don't end up in jail in my country tend to be in the army or police, and being given the order to crack heads largely fills their fantasies and pumps up their boasts. The fact that they can justify it by saying 'I'm doing my duty' is just a convenient excuse that absolves them from feeling any moral responsibility for bashing people's heads in.

In contrast, Thais are a lot less aggressive, more peace-loving and nowhere near as gung-ho. That is part of the beauty and charm of this country as opposed to the one I come from, where aggressive stares meet you on every street corner. I'm not surprised the troops are reluctant, and although I wish to see this protests end, I think it would be far more effective if they simply drove a bunch of tanks and APCs up to Rajarprasong and occupied the area without fighting anyone. The troops inside could defend themselves from being overrun with minimum force and it would stop all these random gunfire deaths and beatings of poor conscripts in trucks.

I consider your 1st paragraph to be one of the most pathetic things that I have read on this forum. The only analogy that comes close is an oyster bitching about how confining it's shell has become. I sincerely hope that at some stage in your life you need the assistance of a police officer, and that he tells you to fight your own battles.

PS No, I am not nor ever have been a police officer.

@OzMick - I'm sorry you feel that way, and I do understand if you have not had much experience of riot police that you probably do not recognise my description of them.

In the UK, the riot police are infamous for their thuggery. For example, recently a newspaper vendor was beaten to death while merely trying to walk home. I've had personal experience of it in my youth, and as a social activist I've seen it many times. Later in life, I had two friends who became police officers, one of them a University educated ordinary bobby who hated the riot police and always said they should be the one's in jail, and another who joined the police in order to be a riot squad officer. He was a nice guy in the quiet of his own home, but he loved to fight and that's why he wanted to be part of the riot police.

There are many examples of riot police in the UK using excessive force, the most famous one which I remember vividlyl was the beating of 'hippies' going to a summer solstice festival (infamously known as 'The Battle of the Beanfield').

I am not condmening all police as violent, but I know if from first hand experience and there is lots of proof out there on the web that riot police in the UK are only by dint of luck the one's in a police uniform rather than a prison uniform. They glory in the aggression rather than their duty. First hand experience, sorry if it makes you uncomfortable.

Apologies to all for veering off-topic but I wanted to justify my post which was on topic.

[silk]

Very interesting translations from some Thai journalist at the center of it all last night. Reds are armed and use flashlights in some ways to target and any photographer using a flash had bullets fired straight at them. It is being translated by Veen on twitter

Why is this not sent to the Onternational Press?

[jcbangkok]

Have to admit watching Arisman on TV wearing bullet proof vest and helmet while not being able to keep his eyes out of the sky was pretty funny.

[andrew55]

Russell.I accept that I'm not the sharpest tool in the the shed. You need speak to a professional. After CT scan drugs can be quite specific and side-effects minimal. Please ask a 'grown up' Good luck. I know this is not correct 'forum etiquette' but on the Karmic Cycle(Buddha thing) I'll get something out of this. Good luck. Chock de krup. (Also accept my phonetic spelling errors) Guess you live in a glass house - Don't throw stones mate. I'm so less than perfect, but see you have problems. God, Buddha, Allah take care. Moderators might move this to medical forum. Ball is in your court. Hugs. xxoo

get help son

Thank you father. Scared that genetically I'm pissing in the shallow end of the gene pool if I'm your son. Why do I let you get to me?!! Note to self = GROW UP ANDREW!

[pornsasi]

Jerry --- you are Red. You have always excused the red threats of violence as "negotiations". You have failed to speak out against the red use of violence and instead have excused it as being needed for change and then added historical references to the French revolution AND to violent mobs using force as part of negotiations in France and other parts of Europe. It is when the reds get HURT that you speak about peace.

The reds had a great deal offered to them. They wanted elections. They wanted investigations into April 10th, they wanted and wanted. They were offered what they wanted then added more and would not go home. They called for violence and then vowed to fight to the death. You called it "negotiations". Now that they have the violence THEY called for from the red stage .......

Your claim to non-partisanship is not true --- one has only to read your posts. You are Red.

If asking for PEACE and no deaths is beeing red then I am red too and so is

most of the rest of the world , including a vast majority of thais .

Go on Jerry ....

Asking for peace and no deaths is Thai, but, Thaksin's red has come to mean armed insurgency, blowing up the country's infrastructure, invading hospitals, and is synonymous with M79 grenades, not to mention overt calls for destroying the country.

If you believe that the general Thai population, given their culture, supports any of this violence you are sadly mistaken.

Western models of downtrodden class upheaval tearing down the evil elite 'system' surely don't compute here, it ain't going to happen that way, and those who are comforted by such wet dreams are sure to be disappointed. Such a model fits here about as well as a group of Thai spiritual doctors in front of Wall Street waving their penis shaped talismans in an effort to cure the economic woes of the corrupt western financial system.

Very coloured description but you miss the basics

Tell me

Yesterday the ultra violent reds killed how many soldiers ?

And yesterday the "good" governement killed how many civilians ?

And today ?

Is the current PM trying to rival Thaksin on his Tai Bak massacre ?

[agord]

I might suggest that you cut the bs sir. I noticed you left the children out but Im sure your next post will describe them as willing protestors wel informed of why they are there and what they are protesting for - Im not sure ANY of the reds know why they are REALLY there. Also how many have had their IDs taken from them and are there under threat and intimidation? You had it right mate they are real terrorists and when a ten year old boy gets shot directly from the actions of one of your terrorists trying to run a road block you can stand back and say look how evil the govt is.

In US or Europe i saw many protests having mothers with children . I concurr its a mistake .

They should not do that , just that they are not the only one mvt doing that .

Terrorist are ppl putting bombs in public places to kill tens of innocent civilians , or shooting

at those civilians . I really wonder who are the terrorists here on that account ?

Protesting against perceived injustice is not terrorism.

If the reds were terrorists the foreign press would have said so . None of them did .

come on now mate you know very well you are comparing apples to oranges. Protests in the US and EU are done by getting authorization first and following a set of guidelines and LAWS and if you step out of line your ass gets arrested. Protestors in either of the places you mentioned would NOT be allowed to set up road blocks and checkpoints or do any of the other criminal acts that hese fools have done, throwing tires on to the bts tracks comes to mind. and for god sakes look up the definition of terrorist already!

[AlbinoAsian]

Quesion: Anyone know whats happening with the Police at the moment, are they still involved in the conflicts? sided with the reds? or have they gotten out?

First there would need to be some proof they switched sides before there can be proof they got out.

Ok thanks, it was more likely just a fear-mongering rumors then?

[mrtoad]

Thaksin tweeted that govt "will end up as war criminals in the int'l criminal court."

I read it, then re-read it. I just can't believe he actually typed this .

I can, nothing surprises me whan it comes to the hypocrite Thaksin.

Funny, how he some sort of selective memory.

[dhrobertson]

you are a partisan who classifies people in 2 possibilities, unable to understand nuances.

For your information:

I support the Poor Population of Issan and their aspiration to better social environment: yes

I support the Roadmap: yes

I do not support Thaksin: yes

I am not involved with any Red Shirt leader and I am not supporting any of them: yes

I guess (but I am not an actor) that the negociation have failed on the question of Amnesty and double standards, and I regret Red Shirts have left the table and that there was no counter proposal of Abhisit: yes

I am against weaponry in free circulation and all militias from any side: yes

From day one I have explained it was a Police operation not an Army operation, Army should remain symbol of Unity: yes

I am French and as such my social inheritage has been built through social struggle, I am what I am and do not deny this inheritage: yes.

In the current circumstances, I wish that a Peaceful solution is the most reasonable because Unity of Thailand is at risk as well as the Thai Institutions (that I respect as a choice of Thai people): yes

I have a mitigated opinion, please take it into account, but maybe it is too difficult for you. Thanks

Jerry, for what it's worth, I always find your posts both interesting and informative!

[jdinasia]

I might suggest that you cut the bs sir. I noticed you left the children out but Im sure your next post will describe them as willing protestors wel informed of why they are there and what they are protesting for - Im not sure ANY of the reds know why they are REALLY there. Also how many have had their IDs taken from them and are there under threat and intimidation? You had it right mate they are real terrorists and when a ten year old boy gets shot directly from the actions of one of your terrorists trying to run a road block you can stand back and say look how evil the govt is.

In US or Europe i saw many protests having mothers with children . I concurr its a mistake .

They should not do that , just that they are not the only one mvt doing that .

Terrorist are ppl putting bombs in public places to kill tens of innocent civilians , or shooting

at those civilians . I really wonder who are the terrorists here on that account ?

Protesting against perceived injustice is not terrorism.

If the reds were terrorists the foreign press would have said so . None of them did .

Huh? The press have reported on the terrorist attacks in Thailand. Some have laid those attacks at the feet of the reds and some have merely suggested it. Many of the press are loathe to use the word until there is a conviction but it doesn't change the facts. The reds are trying to coerce the people of thailand by the use of violence and the threat of violence and THAT is terrorism.

Your lie about what a terrorist is tells much about how a red thinks.

Threatening to burn BKK down is an act of terrorism. The simple statement itself is terrorism. The calls for violence from the red stage is terrorism. Remember that the reds had used molotov cocktails in the past and had burned many things (mostly busses.) Political kidnapping is terrorism and they have done that. The threats from the red leaders last night were terrorism. The leaders have arrest warrants on them for terrorism.

[humfurry]

I bet this Russell Hantz is from the hills of Kentucky (USA) so he has a lot in common with the rural people from the North and Isaan who believe everything the Red agitators have blasted on their loudspeakers in these small villages. Hey Khun Hantz, why don't you come down to Luphini Park and support your commrades? (plus receive 200 bath to buy seeds for your garden).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Hantz

...and then he moved to Issan!

[rabo]

The guy is an incompetent, irresponsible leader that has just brought the country to the edge of civil war, due to his impatience, frustration and unwillingness to show flexibility in negotiations. How much blood needs to be spilled under this idiots leadership before you tell him to resign ?

The blood lust on this forum is disgusting.

Way off base here can you imagine any other leader being in charge now, say Thaksin? If this was reversed and Thaksin was in power I would put the number of casualties in the hundreds already. You are a fool to think that Abhisit hasn't bent over backwards to give these idiots every possible way out and each time they have spit in the face of him and the rest of Thailand.

YOu are the one way off base.

Thaksin is calling for returning to the negotiation table. I would much rather have Thaksin calling the shots than this braindead moron Abhisit.

Go back and read Seh Daeng's lips in the days before he got shot. Read all that he said. He and Thaksin are going for the fight, to hel_l with the chicken moderate red leaders. Thaksin does not want compromise (surprise!).

[pornsasi]

to quote Clint Eastwood -- "it hel_l of a job to kill a man... it takes all he's got.. " may be not the exact words ..still..

Those guys under those Army uniforms are humans as well ... they are no robots... maybe they don't want to do it quickly and decisively...

and stop branding people red/yellow apologist pls... some of us here just want no more deaths... no Reds, no Yellow and no Armymen ...

Yes, I have been thinking about this too. I have read many posts about how the police and army in Western countries would have been more hardline, and I think that is true. I think it is true because most of the quasi-psychopathic types that don't end up in jail in my country tend to be in the army or police, and being given the order to crack heads largely fills their fantasies and pumps up their boasts. The fact that they can justify it by saying 'I'm doing my duty' is just a convenient excuse that absolves them from feeling any moral responsibility for bashing people's heads in.

In contrast, Thais are a lot less aggressive, more peace-loving and nowhere near as gung-ho. That is part of the beauty and charm of this country as opposed to the one I come from, where aggressive stares meet you on every street corner. I'm not surprised the troops are reluctant, and although I wish to see this protests end, I think it would be far more effective if they simply drove a bunch of tanks and APCs up to Rajarprasong and occupied the area without fighting anyone. The troops inside could defend themselves from being overrun with minimum force and it would stop all these random gunfire deaths and beatings of poor conscripts in trucks.

I consider your 1st paragraph to be one of the most pathetic things that I have read on this forum. The only analogy that comes close is an oyster bitching about how confining it's shell has become. I sincerely hope that at some stage in your life you need the assistance of a police officer, and that he tells you to fight your own battles.

PS No, I am not nor ever have been a police officer.

@OzMick - I'm sorry you feel that way, and I do understand if you have not had much experience of riot police that you probably do not recognise my description of them.

In the UK, the riot police are infamous for their thuggery. For example, recently a newspaper vendor was beaten to death while merely trying to walk home. I've had personal experience of it in my youth, and as a social activist I've seen it many times. Later in life, I had two friends who became police officers, one of them a University educated ordinary bobby who hated the riot police and always said they should be the one's in jail, and another who joined the police in order to be a riot squad officer. He was a nice guy in the quiet of his own home, but he loved to fight and that's why he wanted to be part of the riot police.

There are many examples of riot police in the UK using excessive force, the most famous one which I remember vividlyl was the beating of 'hippies' going to a summer solstice festival (infamously known as 'The Battle of the Beanfield').

I am not condmening all police as violent, but I know if from first hand experience and there is lots of proof out there on the web that riot police in the UK are only by dint of luck the one's in a police uniform rather than a prison uniform. They glory in the aggression rather than their duty. First hand experience, sorry if it makes you uncomfortable.

Apologies to all for veering off-topic but I wanted to justify my post which was on topic.

Yes , i agree with you . In France we have the CRS riot police and some of them are quite violent .

But beating protesters , who by the way do the same to police , is one thing .

Shooting live bullets at them is quite another

[hegenious]

Din Daeng gone red again.

Udon Thani Town Hall under seige.

Convoys of Reds blocked from entering Bangkok about to get feisty!

Sure they got this contained at Rajprasong?

As much as I hate to do this, as it might be considered feeding the troll, would you kindly provide links for the first three lines? Because I have not seen any evidence of any of these on the media.

Not my fault my friend. some of them even appeared on here in the closed thread! some on a more reputable BANGKOK based english newspapers front page as well.

is ignorance bliss? Or do you get your wife to only let you see what will be palatable to you?

Oddly enough, I read all the closed threads very carefully. None appeared there.

I checked your suggestion about the BKK newspaper. It says the reds occupy one intersection in Din Daeng. One intersection does not a Din Daeng make.

Called a friend in Udon Thani. Very quiet.

My wife is a very competent, educated woman who has a mind of her own, thank you very much. She's the one with the friend in Udon Thani.

Ignorance may be bliss, but spreading of misinformation/disinformation is a violation of forum rules.

So, if you have links, post them. If not, you are nothing but a troll, and go on the ignore list.

Note to mods and admins: Thanks for having an ignore list available to us!

and another troll moves to the ignore list; don't worry, you'll be in good company Russel, Jerry, Pornstasi, to name only a few. List still growing Thanks to the mods indeed for this wonderful feature. I highly recommend it; it keeps the threads readable, not having to wade through pages of drivel.

[jdinasia]

Jerry ---- your claims to be non-partisan are not true. You have excused the reds for everything. When the leaders call for violence from the red stage you call it "negotiation". When the Reds act violently you say "bad" and THEN you excuse them by saying that change has always been violent. You say violence is bad then compare the reds to Unionists in France having to be violent to get change. You compare them to the French Revolution and excuse the violence.

All it takes to see which side you fall in with is to look at your post history. You are RED.

you are a partisan who classifies people in 2 possibilities, unable to understand nuances.

For your information:

I support the Poor Population of Issan and their aspiration to better social environment: yes

I support the Roadmap: yes

I do not support Thaksin: yes

I am not involved with any Red Shirt leader and I am not supporting any of them: yes

I guess (but I am not an actor) that the negociation have failed on the question of Amnesty and double standards, and I regret Red Shirts have left the table and that there was no counter proposal of Abhisit: yes

I am against weaponry in free circulation and all militias from any side: yes

From day one I have explained it was a Police operation not an Army operation, Army should remain symbol of Unity: yes

I am French and as such my social inheritage has been built through social struggle, I am what I am and do not deny this inheritage: yes.

In the current circumstances, I wish that a Peaceful solution is the most reasonable because Unity of Thailand is at risk as well as the Thai Institutions (that I respect as a choice of Thai people): yes

I have a mitigated opinion, please take it into account, but maybe it is too difficult for you. Thanks

Yet you still excuse the violent threats of the red leaders as "negotiation."

Yet you still suggest that violence from the reds might be needed (by your historical analogies AND more directly.) yet condemn the results of those threats and violence.

[OzMick]

Was on Thai TV that the 10yr old boy had been hanging around for a while and had been told by the soldiers many times to leave and go home but he would not go.

They said he was lying on the footpath or road and with the army shooting at the van tyres of a speeding van there ware bound to be some bullets flying around.

Not shooting wildly as some silly bugger sugested

so they asked the 10 year old boy to go home... he said no (may be he didn't had one) .. so army said since u are a mature 10 year old guy u are responsible for your safety, we will spray bullets all around and mind you we already asked u to go home ..you 10 year old boy....

thts some responsible trigger happy guys out dere....

What would you have done Roger? You ask/tell the kid to go home and he flips you the bird. Do you leave your post to chase him away? What are your chances of catching the little mongrel? Do you shoot him (intentionally)?

Now here comes the van. You wave him down, but he doesn't slow. @ around 60km/hr he will close a 50m gap in 3 secs, more likely they have 2. The road block commander has to make decision, then issue an order to fire - 1 sec if he's on the ball. they aim for the tyres, and bullets skitter off the road and one hits the kid.

Of course, if they had just taken out the driver first burst, then they would be called trigger happy.