Clashes Continue, Turning Central Bangkok In Virtual Warzone

[Goinghomesoon]

Looking out from down Sathorn over towards Rama IV now. Big plumes of black smoke going up in the air - something on fire? Can't see over the buildings.

[agord]

If you fight with the army you are likely to get shot, and if you make the decision to fight an army you should not complain if you do get shot.

Dont see why thats so difficult for the reds to understand.

The 10-year old boy that got shot in the stomach was fighting the army? Give me a break. He was shot while his parents were driving in a speeding car, probably trying to get their family to safety as fast as possible. Instead, the soldiers opened fire on the car. There is no excuse. Stop looking for one.

Thats another one you have wrong RP, How many is that now, must be quite a high number.

The kid wasnt in the van he was on the street and had repeatedly been told by the troops to go home but would not.

Add to that that there was only the driver in the van and he smelled strongly of booze, he also had large knives and red propaganda in the van so where do you think he was trying to go?

Where were the kids parents that he was allowed to be in an obviously dangerous place.

I have every sympathy for the little kid but not for parents who would let him be there. They should be locked up.

well redparrot would be right at home with the likes of jatuporn and arisman and weng and have us all believe that a peace loving family was in their station wagon on the way to wallyworld and made a wrong turn into the evil soldiers who thought it would be fun to open fire on them. of course he missed the facts which are unimportant to the reds when trying to spin a story their way facts like it was a VAN, the stupid kid wasn't even in the VAN, the VAN was full of kni9ves and other useless weapons when fighting against a trained military that has real weapons etc etc.

[Jingthing]

I am guessing the Taksin clan will be person non grata in Thailand when this is all over. I wouldn't feel safe here if I was anyone one of them.

Sum num na

If they lose. They are clearly doing everything they can to win though.

[moetownblues]

If you fight with the army you are likely to get shot, and if you make the decision to fight an army you should not complain if you do get shot.

Dont see why thats so difficult for the reds to understand.

The 10-year old boy that got shot in the stomach was fighting the army? Give me a break. He was shot while his parents were driving in a speeding car, probably trying to get their family to safety as fast as possible. Instead, the soldiers opened fire on the car. There is no excuse. Stop looking for one.

Thats another one you have wrong RP, How many is that now, must be quite a high number.

The kid wasnt in the van he was on the street and had repeatedly been told by the troops to go home but would not.

Add to that that there was only the driver in the van and he smelled strongly of booze, he also had large knives and red propaganda in the van so where do you think he was trying to go?

Where were the kids parents that he was allowed to be in an obviously dangerous place.

I have every sympathy for the little kid but not for parents who would let him be there. They should be locked up.

So they shot him for not doing what he was told. Smells of dictatorship thanks for pointing that out. Simply shot for not obeying an older person.

[timekeeper]

Was just about to go take a shower to the outside toilet, when I noticed a lot of sharp pieces on the floor. Well, looking around it wasn't hard to spot the culprit.

This shot came from the southern side, through the concrete wall and tiling and still cracked the tiles on the other side's wall.

The height comparison of the holes is near identical, and being on 5th floor that would mean that it was shot from a fair distance, not just under the house.

FYI: the red stage is south, soldiers are under the house and towards the north, so there's really not much secret as to which side of the conflict this came from.

EDIT: Order of photos: from inside, wall that was hit; opposite wall; from outside; bullet

That's not nice!!!

Just to understand it right,

you mean the shot came from the red shirts, right?

I am not the brightest.

i am sorry that can't be right, i saw the UDD spokesman Sean Boonpracong interviewed on BBS news and he said that the peaceful red protestors were unarmed and had no heavy weapons .

they said that they were of entirely peaceful intentions but were left with no choice to arm themselves with simple weapons like sharpened sticks and catapults

so it could not possibly have been them

you must have had a fake red experience or a magic bullet that can go round corners and U turn

the Germans did develop a gun that did this in the latter part of WW2 but i doubt its in Bangkok today

Tom, it must have been real scary for you

take care........

[pornsasi]

If the reds go home today, I will be on the governments back (posting on TVF) to make sure they live up to their promises, as I would think many other anti-reds would be.

I would like to say that I would do the same for any red promises, but they usually only promise violence (and often live up to it), and haven't said anything about how they will actually improve the life of the average poor Thai.

The reds are NOT THE GOVERNEMENT

Only the governement can deliver better life for the poor , so why do you

want the reds to make promises ?

As i said Abhisit should have arrested Sae Daeng and Arisman .

Who knows who almost killed Sae Daeng ?

[rabo]

Who shot 100 soldiers? Who blew up jet fuel depots? Who blew up power pylons, who fired 16 M79 grenades yesterday? Who shot the soldier out by Don Muang? Who shot the soldier in yesterday's video of the reds dragging unarmed soldiers out of a truck? Who has bombed roughly 80 locations in Thailand since March? Name 10 of the places.

Please write your answers clearly, partial credit will be given where applicable, you have 30 minutes.

As a bonus question worth 10 points, what Thai ex-leader was going to work with Seh Daeng to persue the fight to the finish against the govenment rather that compromise with Abhisit's 5 point reconciliation plan?

Why dont you wait for the enquiry result ?

As a bonus question .

Who accepted the PM "sincere" offer on the 5 points .

Answer : All the red leaders except Arisman and Sae Daeng .

Which reinforce my point , even Jatuporn or Dr Weng were not afraid of beeing arrested

not talking about Veera and others .

Finally this thread is about last two days not about 10th April . Nor about Thaksin

which Abhisit is trying very hard to emulate (tai Bak , war on drugs killings of innocent )

Probably because you did not want to wait for any inquiry into those who died yesterday, which is still very unclear.

I have read several of your posts and see you well understand the "reds" are made of different people and factions with widely divergent agendas. As you point out here, even the local leadership has widely differing views. Some of the leadership must be quite bothered by how things have gone. Others want a victory of a different kind.

If you were to defend the innocent red, in large part the "rural red" as I call them, I would go along with your views.

I find it hard to understand why some have such trouble separating Thaksin and his political agenda from the rural people's need for more support from Thailand's economic growth.

[whybother]

So they shot him for not doing what he was told. Smells of dictatorship thanks for pointing that out. Simply shot for not obeying an older person.

He got shot because there was a speeding car coming towards the army.

It's unfortunate, but the army are fighting an armed insurgency. Some people will be in the wrong place, even when told it's going to be dangerous.

[agord]

If you fight with the army you are likely to get shot, and if you make the decision to fight an army you should not complain if you do get shot.

Dont see why thats so difficult for the reds to understand.

The 10-year old boy that got shot in the stomach was fighting the army? Give me a break. He was shot while his parents were driving in a speeding car, probably trying to get their family to safety as fast as possible. Instead, the soldiers opened fire on the car. There is no excuse. Stop looking for one.

Thats another one you have wrong RP, How many is that now, must be quite a high number.

The kid wasnt in the van he was on the street and had repeatedly been told by the troops to go home but would not.

Add to that that there was only the driver in the van and he smelled strongly of booze, he also had large knives and red propaganda in the van so where do you think he was trying to go?

Where were the kids parents that he was allowed to be in an obviously dangerous place.

I have every sympathy for the little kid but not for parents who would let him be there. They should be locked up.

So they shot him for not doing what he was told. Smells of dictatorship thanks for pointing that out. Simply shot for not obeying an older person.

You can't be that stupid but going back to some of your other posts maybe you can? The kid was shot when a van refused to stop at a military check point why did it refuse to stop? because it was full of weapons and red propaganda. It was speeding up and heading towards the soldiers who then opened fire leading to a stray bullet hitting the kid who ws warned repeatedly by the soldiers that it was unsafe to be there. but go ahead and spin it to a soldier telling the kid to go home and upon refusing to do so the soldier shoots him in the belly - that is about as true as the rest of the bs you guys feed us on a daily basis so at least you are consistent.

[haroldc]

If you fight with the army you are likely to get shot, and if you make the decision to fight an army you should not complain if you do get shot.

Dont see why thats so difficult for the reds to understand.

The 10-year old boy that got shot in the stomach was fighting the army? Give me a break. He was shot while his parents were driving in a speeding car, probably trying to get their family to safety as fast as possible. Instead, the soldiers opened fire on the car. There is no excuse. Stop looking for one.

Thats another one you have wrong RP, How many is that now, must be quite a high number.

The kid wasnt in the van he was on the street and had repeatedly been told by the troops to go home but would not.

Add to that that there was only the driver in the van and he smelled strongly of booze, he also had large knives and red propaganda in the van so where do you think he was trying to go?

Where were the kids parents that he was allowed to be in an obviously dangerous place.

I have every sympathy for the little kid but not for parents who would let him be there. They should be locked up.

So they shot him for not doing what he was told. Smells of dictatorship thanks for pointing that out. Simply shot for not obeying an older person.

Hard to believe that there are so many post-op lobotomy patients on this forum... another "ignore" to reduce the waste of bandwidth.

[animatic]

To do that arresting you mention would have had the same effect as we see today.

I dont think so , not if the yellows would have faced a court as well .

Utterly irrelevant rejoinder.

[timekeeper]

MCOT: Erawan Emergency Medical Centre: 17 dead, including 3 foreigners; 157 injured including 7 in ICU in clashes between Army, Red Shirts since Thursday

3 foreigners killed now.

are you still here?

i thought you would have been banned for posting rumor by now........

[pornsasi]

To do that arresting you mention would have had the same effect as we see today.

I dont think so , not if the yellows would have faced a court as well .

You never read any posts that go against your opinion do you?

That would be rather difficult in here , dont you think ?

The truth might be that the governement did not press for Sae Daeng and Arisman

arrest because it suited them to leave them in the red camp

The other alternative is that the governement is totally incompetent

except for shooting at random on unarmed civilians like they do know .

[jcbangkok]

Sorry, but you have the idiotic argument here. There have been 17 civilians killed and 0 soldiers killed. In total over 100 civilians are injured and the army spokesman on TV just reported 1 injured soldier. Just look at the balance. It says it all about who's killing who.

More info needed. How may of those injured were active combatants in the red insurgency? They are fighting a war so they are war casualties. Of course in any war, there are always innocents killed. Why didn't the reds accept the road map? Answer- THAKSIN. So who is responsible for this mess? THAKSIN.

looking at the casualty fiqures so far,,,

its pretty obvious who is the main aggressor!! the army

I think their crossing the line by a mile of just defending themselves and their position..

Karma

[whybother]

If the reds go home today, I will be on the governments back (posting on TVF) to make sure they live up to their promises, as I would think many other anti-reds would be.

I would like to say that I would do the same for any red promises, but they usually only promise violence (and often live up to it), and haven't said anything about how they will actually improve the life of the average poor Thai.

The reds are NOT THE GOVERNEMENT

Only the governement can deliver better life for the poor , so why do you

want the reds to make promises ?

As i said Abhisit should have arrested Sae Daeng and Arisman .

Who knows who almost killed Sae Daeng ?

Have you ever been somewhere where there is an opposition party? Have you been anywhere where there are elections? Do you ever have your brain turned on at these times (or now)?

The opposition party usually promises to do things that they will do when they get into power so they will get votes. Otherwise no one votes for them.

The difference here is the reds don't actually promise anything, and then they under deliver. They don't promise anything. They jsut pay for votes.

When Thaksin was in government, he didn't do anything to help the poor in the long term. He rode on the back of booming global economy, and provided short term hand outs to become popular.

The PPP government did absolutely nothing except try and change the constitution to get Thaksin off his crimes.

That is about the only thing the reds have promised if they get into government.

[redparrot]

Some people here are twisting and turning the story. At one point you guys claim that the van was speeding towards the army and they shot the van, killing the boy. Then you say that he was standing OUTSIDE besides the van. Was he inside or outside? Speeding or standing? Sorry, your twisting is getting ridiculous. If he was killed while the van was speeding towards the army, he couldn't have been "standing outside besides the van".

[Brocher]

The government and yellow shirts can do no wrong they have not made a singlr error of judgement throughout this whole ordeal. The ten year old was on the most wanted list in Thailand and had to be taken out.

It's very sad that posters like yourself can treat what is currently happening as something to joke about. This is an extremely serious situation and the repercussions could affect all of us here adversely, Thai and farang alike. Please try to think about that before posting nonsense

[agord]

To do that arresting you mention would have had the same effect as we see today.

I dont think so , not if the yellows would have faced a court as well .

You never read any posts that go against your opinion do you?

That would be rather difficult in here , dont you think ?

The truth might be that the governement did not press for Sae Daeng and Arisman

arrest because it suited them to leave them in the red camp

The other alternative is that the governement is totally incompetent

except for shooting at random on unarmed civilians like they do know .

anyone inside of the red camp cannot be counted as a civilian I thought we covered that?

[pimay11]

If you fight with the army you are likely to get shot, and if you make the decision to fight an army you should not complain if you do get shot.

Dont see why thats so difficult for the reds to understand.

The 10-year old boy that got shot in the stomach was fighting the army? Give me a break. He was shot while his parents were driving in a speeding car, probably trying to get their family to safety as fast as possible. Instead, the soldiers opened fire on the car. There is no excuse. Stop looking for one.

Thats another one you have wrong RP, How many is that now, must be quite a high number.

The kid wasnt in the van he was on the street and had repeatedly been told by the troops to go home but would not.

Add to that that there was only the driver in the van and he smelled strongly of booze, he also had large knives and red propaganda in the van so where do you think he was trying to go?

Where were the kids parents that he was allowed to be in an obviously dangerous place.

I have every sympathy for the little kid but not for parents who would let him be there. They should be locked up.

Come on guys surely anyone with half a brain, maybe even SD now can realize what redparrot is up to with his posts. He knows exactly how to push the buttons to get responses. There is no way he believes what he is posting. Not even my ex brother-in-law was that stupid and he still thinks the earth is flat.

But it makes for a fun read anyway.

[nickynomatesbkk]

The government and yellow shirts can do no wrong they have not made a singlr error of judgement throughout this whole ordeal. The ten year old was on the most wanted list in Thailand and had to be taken out.

It's very sad that posters like yourself can treat what is currently happening as something to joke about. This is an extremely serious situation and the repercussions could affect all of us here adversely, Thai and farang alike. Please try to think about that before posting nonsense

Agree Please think before you post many people are losing loved ones today.

[whybother]

To do that arresting you mention would have had the same effect as we see today.

I dont think so , not if the yellows would have faced a court as well .

You never read any posts that go against your opinion do you?

That would be rather difficult in here , dont you think ?

The truth might be that the governement did not press for Sae Daeng and Arisman

arrest because it suited them to leave them in the red camp

The other alternative is that the governement is totally incompetent

except for shooting at random on unarmed civilians like they do know .

It would make it easier than repeating to you 100 times, that the yellows HAVE faced court and are waiting for things to proceed.

But that doesn't get into your brainwashed mind.

You just come out with some other red propaganda rubbish.

[humfurry]

Was just about to go take a shower to the outside toilet, when I noticed a lot of sharp pieces on the floor. Well, looking around it wasn't hard to spot the culprit.

This shot came from the southern side, through the concrete wall and tiling and still cracked the tiles on the other side's wall.

The height comparison of the holes is near identical, and being on 5th floor that would mean that it was shot from a fair distance, not just under the house.

FYI: the red stage is south, soldiers are under the house and towards the north, so there's really not much secret as to which side of the conflict this came from.

EDIT: Order of photos: from inside, wall that was hit; opposite wall; from outside; bullet

So to be overly clear, you are saying that someone most likely residing in the red shirt camp fired this bullet?

So there are absolutely NO misunderstandings - this is a photo taken through the hole in the wall towards where it came from.

The second photo is compass next to the hole, showing which direction it came from.

Building is on Rajaprarop Road, which is facing the southern enclave directly to the south ~ 500 m.

Excellent !

[kissdani]

TAN Network: Red-shirt leader Dr.Weng Tojirakarn says some police and even soldiers are shooting at their peacekeepers, demands govt stop operations now.

These poor peacekeepers.

Is that twitter "news" or from an online article or a line from television report?

What did he exactly say?

Maybe Weng was referring to police who switched the sides* and now responding to the fire of the peacekeepers troops from the red positions.

These peacekeepers are the government troops who shot at the protesters to restore peace and normalcy, right?

Poor soldiers, i guess a lot of them are not happy with that job.

*telegraph.co.uk: Shooting between police and army personnel was also reported at several locations, as policemen joined the side of the anti-government demonstrators.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...rt-protest.html

[whybother]

Some people here are twisting and turning the story. At one point you guys claim that the van was speeding towards the army and they shot the van, killing the boy. Then you say that he was standing OUTSIDE besides the van. Was he inside or outside? Speeding or standing? Sorry, your twisting is getting ridiculous. If he was killed while the van was speeding towards the army, he couldn't have been "standing outside besides the van".

Initially, the reports said he was in the van.

Later, the reports said he wasn't in the van.

[redparrot]

anyone inside of the red camp cannot be counted as a civilian I thought we covered that?

Says who? An anonymous forum poster? Go amend the constitution with that new paragraph, quick!

Troops to enter rally site if violence persists

Looks like tonight they will start the "final massacre". I hope the world media is there to witness what will happen to all the women, children and elderly.

[TAWP]

Other angle to same event (towards the end)

[agord]

Some people here are twisting and turning the story. At one point you guys claim that the van was speeding towards the army and they shot the van, killing the boy. Then you say that he was standing OUTSIDE besides the van. Was he inside or outside? Speeding or standing? Sorry, your twisting is getting ridiculous. If he was killed while the van was speeding towards the army, he couldn't have been "standing outside besides the van".

boy outside of van

van with weapons refuses to stop

van speeds up heading towards soldiers

boy still outside of van

boy at no time enters van

van upon failing to stop and while attempting to run the military checkpoint gets fired upon by soldiers in self defense

boy still outside of van

boy is hit by stray or ricochet bullet (still not in van) as a direct result of the van failing to comply with soldiers orders to stop

boy probably not the next Einstein

[rogerx007]

Some people here are twisting and turning the story. At one point you guys claim that the van was speeding towards the army and they shot the van, killing the boy. Then you say that he was standing OUTSIDE besides the van. Was he inside or outside? Speeding or standing? Sorry, your twisting is getting ridiculous. If he was killed while the van was speeding towards the army, he couldn't have been "standing outside besides the van".

Initially, the reports said he was in the van.

Later, the reports said he wasn't in the van.

Doesn't matter if they told the kid to move out or not... they should have take extra precautions... thts whts the training for... they are not supposed to hit at evrything moving... just look up at tht pic of him with shirt soaked in blood ....

The job of those Armymen isn't easy by any stretch of imagination but they goofed up on this instance... I hope it doesn't happen again and no amount of justification can right this wrong...

[pornsasi]

Probably because you did not want to wait for any inquiry into those who died yesterday, which is still very unclear.

I have read several of your posts and see you well understand the "reds" are made of different people and factions with widely divergent agendas. As you point out here, even the local leadership has widely differing views. Some of the leadership must be quite bothered by how things have gone. Others want a victory of a different kind.

If you were to defend the innocent red, in large part the "rural red" as I call them, I would go along with your views.

I find it hard to understand why some have such trouble separating Thaksin and his political agenda from the rural people's need for more support from Thailand's economic growth.

I was talking about 10th April but i support independant enquiries for yesterday/today as well .

I think for those two days , it will show that soldiers used lethal force , while at most they

should have used rubber bullets .

Yes some few red leaders are madmen . Some are moderate . And some are in between .

Beeing a moderate myself i do defend the rurals which are likewise . My wife one of them .

Unfortunately she also supports Thaksin because Isaan ppl have long memories of who did

some good for them . i do not .

But i have no sympathy for random killing of civilians , BY Taksin , Abhisit or others

Edited May 15, 2010 by pornsasi

[TAWP]

What a disgrace. Shooting at 70% women and children now

Indeed it is .

Reading 101, you fail.

The shots are NOT aimed at women and kids.

Infact, there are mostly young males being wounded by anything these last 24 hours. As they are attacking the army lines.

The army has no will to try to break through - only way to reach the old women and kids - the red lines to start firing at a few hundred sitting down eating.

So, please, do tell us, where is the army firing at women and kids at will?