Three More Dead In Fresh Bangkok Violence

[chantorn]

When was there an army coup against an elected government?

TIT

Noway. Such thing can never happen to LOS.

[whybother]

There are plenty of places for the reds to get out of there, without even surrendering to the army.

The women and children could walk out of their in 5 minutes past MBK or the other direction down Suhkumvit.

Surrendering = straight into jail for 6 months. No pardon. I think these lowly educated will take their chances.

There are still ways out of there without surrendering. They should take their chances on that one. Or they could wait around and get shot.

[jdinasia]

It would be good if CRES set-up some kind of checkpoint or processing center where "red shirts" can surrender themselves and peacefully leave the area. Whether or not they are criminally charged for one thing or another might be a different story for the justice system to sort out. In my humble opinion, if they choose to leave the area they should be offered some kind of leniency.

Perhaps the army should broadcast some kind of counter-propaganda? Letting the people inside the red zone know that there is a way out of this. Allow them to disarm themselves (rocks, sticks, incendiary devices, whatever might be perceived as a weapon), then simply walk out of the zone to a place where they can be processed and sent back home (or wherever it is they deserve to go).

Somehow this current stranglehold strategy is only hardening the resolve of the mob. A way out for them might help diffuse things.

There are plenty of places for the reds to get out of there, without even surrendering to the army.

The women and children could walk out of their in 5 minutes past MBK or the other direction down Suhkumvit.

Surrendering = straight into jail for 6 months. No pardon. I think these lowly educated will take their chances.

Not accurate --- walking out unarmed means walking out and going home. Need help getting home and the government will help.

Get caught fighting, armed, or trying to infiltrate a restricted/off-limits area and go to jail. Plead guilty and get 6 months. Fight the charges and get a year.

sorry just realized that chantorn was responding to 7 hour old posts and they have already been done to death

Edited May 15, 2010 by jdinasia

[chantorn]

PM just said: If govt turns back, this will set a standard of using armed groups to overthrow government.

Yes, we all know that the right way to overthrow the government is to march to the airport and refuse to leave....

I still think the double standard is shocking. Yes, this has become violent and out of control. Yes it has to be stopped.

No doubt the airport siege would have also turned violent had the army gone in. The yellow siege is highly relevant to the current situation as it set a precedent for the effective way to force political change here. Both protests should have been stopped in the very beginning as they would have in any 'normal' country.

Sorry, trying to excuse this rebellion with what happened at the airport may satisfy you, but for the rest of the world, has come back a big thumbs down.

The rest of the world? I respect your opinion. But my is totally different. Care to hear?

[jdinasia]

It would be good if CRES set-up some kind of checkpoint or processing center where "red shirts" can surrender themselves and peacefully leave the area. Whether or not they are criminally charged for one thing or another might be a different story for the justice system to sort out. In my humble opinion, if they choose to leave the area they should be offered some kind of leniency.

Perhaps the army should broadcast some kind of counter-propaganda? Letting the people inside the red zone know that there is a way out of this. Allow them to disarm themselves (rocks, sticks, incendiary devices, whatever might be perceived as a weapon), then simply walk out of the zone to a place where they can be processed and sent back home (or wherever it is they deserve to go).

Somehow this current stranglehold strategy is only hardening the resolve of the mob. A way out for them might help diffuse things.

There are plenty of places for the reds to get out of there, without even surrendering to the army.

The women and children could walk out of their in 5 minutes past MBK or the other direction down Suhkumvit.

Surrendering = straight into jail for 6 months. No pardon. I think these lowly educated will take their chances.

Not accurate --- walking out unarmed means walking out and going home. Need help getting home and the government will help.

Get caught fighting, armed, or trying to infiltrate a restricted/off-limits area and go to jail. Plead guilty and get 6 months. Fight the charges and get a year.

[chantorn]

Very sad pictures

Forgot to add some information to the picture

7 killed and 101 injured Nine people are in critical conditions including a 10 year old boy.

With many families on the protest site and the indiscriminating shooting by the Thai military it's a wonder that no child has been shot.

However last night a 10 year old boy was seriously shot in the abdomen when the van he was traveling in failed to slow down at a check-point.

Source: Daily News Thailand

Standard Geneva convention rules of war

The soldiers had no idea who was inside or the vehicles purpose

Normal logic when a soldier holding a gun says stop. you stop

Sorry, my Merc 600 is double glazed. No hear the army boy say STOP.

[givenall]

It never amazes me to see when they show on the news that the Red Shirt using primitive weapons like sling shots and looks like David-and-goliath. Then again if you come to where I live and you can see these Idiot Red Shirt are using grenade and live ammo against the army then you know why I don’t have any sympathy for these idiots when they get shoots or worse

[chantorn]

Fake Reds ad Fake photos

Most like ly Fake blood

The photos are not fake!! look at these pics and feel very very ashamed of yourself.

pic 3 is the one u assume is fake! look at pic 4 same guy on a stretcher DEAD. and pic 5 and pic 8.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1910...112988452055370

I don't know if they are real or not. But all shot in the head? Perfect score for the sniper(s).

[khunjamespittman]

The PM goes on TV and says he is sorry for the deaths. He can't wash his hands that easily.

The blood is on his hands for ordering this bloodbath.

[whybother]

The PM goes on TV and says he is sorry for the deaths. He can't wash his hands that easily.

The blood is on his hands for ordering this bloodbath.

No blame for the reds targetting civilians with their grenades?

[old wanderer]

Very sad pictures

Forgot to add some information to the picture

7 killed and 101 injured Nine people are in critical conditions including a 10 year old boy.

With many families on the protest site and the indiscriminating shooting by the Thai military it's a wonder that no child has been shot.

However last night a 10 year old boy was seriously shot in the abdomen when the van he was traveling in failed to slow down at a check-point.

Source: Daily News Thailand

Standard Geneva convention rules of war

The soldiers had no idea who was inside or the vehicles purpose

Normal logic when a soldier holding a gun says stop. you stop

Sorry, my Merc 600 is double glazed. No hear the army boy say STOP.

I cannot believe the way some try ans SPIN an incident.

As properly reported elsewhere here on TV, The Van "rapidly accelerated" toward the soldiers manning the check point. The tried to shoot the tires 1st then the van...

The Van was carrying supplies for the red shirts.

This is like having your family visit Iraq, and inviting your 10 year old son to come with you an a combat mission......

STUPID< STUPID<STUPID

The army has no moral debt in the wounding of the child....

[passon]

i'm sure there will be a lot of 'armchair general' farangs happy that the army are just shooting unarmed people!

Have a look at this picture. Can anybody see a just reason for killing this person??

http://image.ohozaa.com/is/28931_397050999...3_2895502_n.jpg

Please don't make assumptions. Just because he wasn't wear red doesn't mean he's not red. And how do you know he didn't try to throw a grenade.

At least the reds are showing some kind of intelligence by not wearing red anymore...if you wear red, you are shot on site.

I don't condone violence but I also don't condone the undemocratic activities of the reds.. nothing more than brute thugs. Anybody that is smart and non-red are all staying home or at least out of the protest areas.

Or maybe he was being interviewed by a reporter!

[MacWalen]

I have been taking pictures at the scene yesterday till 10 pm, they (red) are certainly violent towards the soldiers. They throw things, Molotov cocktails, they try to surround them from the outside. How can you say that they are not terrorists, if you are close to them and say something negative about their actions or ideology you certainly feel that you WILL be attacked. It was never a peaceful demonstration. It was always their way or no way. Always threats, always we will do it by violent means if the government will not do what we want. Goodness me, I've had enough. how could you entrust the future of this county into their 'capable' hands?

Regrettably people suffer and some are killed, this is a real tragedy. Property is being destroyed. I have taken a lot of pictures, you do not have to destroy a bank or 7-11 when you demonstrate do you? Or smash all the telephone boxes and destroy all the road signs, do you?

[whybother]

I have been taking pictures at the scene yesterday till 10 pm, they (red) are certainly violent towards the soldiers. They throw things, Molotov cocktails, they try to surround them from the outside. How can you say that they are not terrorists, if you are close to them and say something negative about their actions or ideology you certainly feel that you WILL be attacked. It was never a peaceful demonstration. It was always their way or no way. Always threats, always we will do it by violent means if the government will not do what we want. Goodness me, I've had enough. how could you entrust the future of this county into their 'capable' hands?

Regrettably people suffer and some are killed, this is a real tragedy. Property is being destroyed. I have taken a lot of pictures, you do not have to destroy a bank or 7-11 when you demonstrate do you? Or smash all the telephone boxes and destroy all the road signs, do you?

That's what RED DEMOCRACY is all about.

Freedom of speech - as long as you're not speaking against us.

Freedom to protest - as long as you're not protesting against us.

Freedom to campaign - as long as you're not campaigning against us.

Yay for RED DEMOCRACY.

They're like that when they are not in government. What are they going to be like IF they ever get in?

[jdinasia]

The PM goes on TV and says he is sorry for the deaths. He can't wash his hands that easily.

The blood is on his hands for ordering this bloodbath.

Huh? The reds are coming out and fighting .... he is just trying to contain them. The forces have not gone into Rachprasong at all! The blood is on the Reds and nobody else (other than Thaksin !)

[MacWalen]

It is like this everywhere, who will pay for all the vandalism?

[jdinasia]

It is like this everywhere, who will pay for all the vandalism?

Did the Durian do that? Obviously the government will have to pay for everything unless they can sue Thaksin and anyone else that they can prove have been financing this terrorist led campaign of the red shirts!

[offissa]

The PM goes on TV and says he is sorry for the deaths. He can't wash his hands that easily.

The blood is on his hands for ordering this bloodbath.

Huh? The reds are coming out and fighting .... he is just trying to contain them. The forces have not gone into Rachprasong at all! The blood is on the Reds and nobody else (other than Thaksin !)

Oh sure. And anybody who gets shot by soldiers is automatically a terrorist—by definition, right? And if you can't prove someone was shot by soldiers, then it had to be by red "thugs", eh?

Oh yes, and why on Earth can't any of you people spell "hel_l"?

[edit: well that answered my last question...]

Edited May 15, 2010 by offissa

[ungcas]

The PM goes on TV and says he is sorry for the deaths. He can't wash his hands that easily.

The blood is on his hands for ordering this bloodbath.

If you let the reds win and tasksin back into power the death toll and suffering will be tenfold.

The PM is only doing what is necessary to protect us.

[citizen33]

In light of recent events it is worth considering what “international standards” mean vis-a-vis control of a civil disturbance of the kind now taking place in Bangkok.

One reference point is the United Nations Code of Conduct for Law Enforcement Officials, Adopted by General Assembly Resolution 34/169 of 17 December 1979.

The code states that “In countries where police powers are exercised by military authorities, whether uniformed or not, or by State security forces, the definition of law enforcement officials shall be regarded as including officers of such services”.

Article 3 states that: “Law enforcement officials may use force only when strictly necessary and to the extent required for the performance of their duty.” The commentary under article 3 states that “the use of firearms is an extreme measure. Every effort should be made to exclude the use of firearms, especially against children. In general, firearms should not be used except when a suspected offender offers armed resistance or otherwise jeopardizes the lives of others and less extreme measures are not sufficient to restrain or apprehend the suspected offender. In every instance in which a firearm is discharged, a report should be made promptly to the competent authorities”.

A second reference point is the UN Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials (Eighth United Nations Congress on the Prevention of Crime and the Treatment of Offenders, Havana, 27 August to 7 September 1990, U.N. Doc. A/CONF.144/28/Rev.1 at 112, 1990).

Principle 9 states: “Law enforcement officials shall not use firearms against persons except in self-defence or defence of others against the imminent threat of death or serious injury, to prevent the perpetration of a particularly serious crime involving grave threat to life, to arrest a person presenting such a danger and resisting their authority, or to prevent his or her escape, and only when less extreme means are insufficient to achieve these objectives. In any event, intentional lethal use of firearms may only be made when strictly unavoidable in order to protect life.

Principle 10 states: “In the circumstances provided for under principle 9, law enforcement officials shall identify themselves as such and give a clear warning of their intent to use firearms, with sufficient time for the warning to be observed, unless to do so would unduly place the law enforcement officials at risk or would create a risk of death or serious harm to other persons, or would be clearly inappropriate or pointless in the circumstances of the incident.”

With regard to “Policing unlawful assemblies” the Basic Principles state:

12. As everyone is allowed to participate in lawful and peaceful assemblies, in accordance with the principles embodied in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, Governments and law enforcement agencies and officials shall recognize that force and firearms may be used only in accordance with principles 13 and 14.

13. In the dispersal of assemblies that are unlawful but non-violent, law enforcement officials shall avoid the use of force or, where that is not practicable, shall restrict such force to the minimum extent necessary.

14. In the dispersal of violent assemblies, law enforcement officials may use firearms only when less dangerous means are not practicable and only to the minimum extent necessary. Law enforcement officials shall not use firearms in such cases, except under the conditions stipulated in principle 9.

Elsewhere this document states:

“Whenever the lawful use of firearms is unavoidable law enforcement officials shall ...

( b ) minimize damage and injury, and respect and preserve human life;

( c) ensure that assistance and medical aid are rendered to any injured or affected persons at the earliest possible moment.” (Principle 5)

“...In cases of death and serious injury a detailed report shall be sent promptly to the competent authorities responsible for administrative review and judicial control.”(Principle 22 of the Basic Principles)

It is not difficult to predict that members of the forum will differ in their views of the relevance of “international standards” and whether they have been breached by the Thai authorities. However, there is little doubt that this will be the benchmark that many international observers will use to assess the legitimacy of what has happened.

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/i1ccleo.htm

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/i2bpuff.htm

Edited May 15, 2010 by citizen33

[jdinasia]

The PM goes on TV and says he is sorry for the deaths. He can't wash his hands that easily.

The blood is on his hands for ordering this bloodbath.

Huh? The reds are coming out and fighting .... he is just trying to contain them. The forces have not gone into Rachprasong at all! The blood is on the Reds and nobody else (other than Thaksin !)

Oh sure. And anybody who gets shot by soldiers is automatically a terrorist—by definition, right? And if you can't prove someone was shot by soldiers, then it had to be by red "thugs", eh?

Oh yes, and why on Earth can't any of you people spell "hel_l"?

[edit: well that answered my last question...]

Nope People that get shot are victims of gunshot wounds. If they are redshirts that are attacking then they are criminals and likely terrorists. If it can't be proven then Occam's razor is good enough for discussion but we have to bear in mind that it is just a point to make a hypothesis from and NOT the Truth*

Occam's razor would suggest that the child that was wounded by one of the three M79's fired into the housing complex was fired by the Reds. That the 10 year old boy that was apparently shot was shot by the military but not on purpose. The responsibility? The redshirt driver (drunk) speeding at the barricade, and the parents.

Most reasonable people would assume that 1) paid protesters and 2) a refusal to leave BKK when demands for a new election were acquiesced to: to indicate that the red shirts leaders (terrorists one and all if you look at the arrest warrants or have heard them speak) were NOT interested in any compromise or negotiation at all. They want Thaksin back NOW!

[khunjamespittman]

The PM goes on TV and says he is sorry for the deaths. He can't wash his hands that easily.

The blood is on his hands for ordering this bloodbath.

Huh? The reds are coming out and fighting .... he is just trying to contain them. The forces have not gone into Rachprasong at all! The blood is on the Reds and nobody else (other than Thaksin !)

Oh sure. And anybody who gets shot by soldiers is automatically a terrorist—by definition, right? And if you can't prove someone was shot by soldiers, then it had to be by red "thugs", eh?

Oh yes, and why on Earth can't any of you people spell "hel_l"?

[edit: well that answered my last question...]

Nope People that get shot are victims of gunshot wounds. If they are redshirts that are attacking then they are criminals and likely terrorists. If it can't be proven then Occam's razor is good enough for discussion but we have to bear in mind that it is just a point to make a hypothesis from and NOT the Truth*

Occam's razor would suggest that the child that was wounded by one of the three M79's fired into the housing complex was fired by the Reds. That the 10 year old boy that was apparently shot was shot by the military but not on purpose. The responsibility? The redshirt driver (drunk) speeding at the barricade, and the parents.

Most reasonable people would assume that 1) paid protesters and 2) a refusal to leave BKK when demands for a new election were acquiesced to: to indicate that the red shirts leaders (terrorists one and all if you look at the arrest warrants or have heard them speak) were NOT interested in any compromise or negotiation at all. They want Thaksin back NOW!

Take note JDs boogy man was at fault. If the weather is too hot, too cold, it's the boogy man's fault. He knows. He can see them out his back door in CM.

[mommysboy]

how about go home and you won't get shot? how about the sharpened bamboo spears, the stacks of bricks and rocks, the gasoline bombs, or even guilty by association. Get your children out of the war zone and go home and value life. If you want a better life, get started, don't think someone is going to hand it to you. As far as those pics are concerned, nobody here knows the situation that preceded them getting shot. How horrible! how uninformed!

How horrible! how uninformed!

Might also aply to some of your posting.

People riot for a reason and usually after severe prolonged suffering, in this case because they are sick of being downtrodden.

I have travelled throughout the north including all of Isaan and there is not one person starving there. People work the fields, the kids go to school, and life goes on as it has for hundreds of years. There is a cycle when it comes to education that must be included when one speaks on inequalities in the educational systems in Thailand or any other country. The children will turn out just like their parents if their parents don't care that much whether their child gets a high school education & eventually a college/univ education. Throughout Thailand there are scholarships for the best students in every school in northern Thailand just like central Thailand, Bkk and Southern Thailand. Education - breaking the cycle - begins and ends with the family, not from government handouts. People in Isaan are not enduring "prolonged suffering." They may be "downtrodden" to a certain extent but check closely and see what percentage of Thai men in Isaan drink and gamble away 50% or 75% of the family's income. It is an epidemic with the uneducated. It is that way all over Thailand - most everyone plays the lotto (their are government lottos & illegal lottos like my neighbors play using a bookie)

Every word Danielle said is true. Everyone wants to act like a victim to get attention - perhaps a handout , perhaps earning their money protesting to bring Thaksin back. Democracy?! You could not find one out of 100 of the Reds (other than their fiery leaders who are making big money)who could spell democracy much less give a definition. They are protesting to overthrow the government (that makes them terrorists) and bring the crooked, cowardly, fugitive and Pile of S--t ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra. Snipers should have taken him out long ago. The man is scum! TIME TO DO WHATEVER IS NECESSARY TO GET THOSE NEANDERTHAL REDS OUT OF BANGKOK. They want war, give them war!

People like you are weird sometimes dangerous.

[plazot11]

Is Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva a War Criminal ?

Abhisit has the Blood of Thai citizens on his hands.

Abhisit ordered the Thai Army to shoot unarmed people including women and children !

Abhisit uses the same old saying we must maintain the "Rule of Law" sure Mr Abhisit you maintain your laws by killing unarmed civilians.

Abhisit why not rid your country of all the poor people. Kill them all while the world stand by and does nothing !

Abhisit hope you hang on the gallows the same as Saddam Hussein, he killed his own people and was declared a War Criminal.

To the Thai Army Stop The Killing of your own brothers and sisters !!

Look at the pictures of the so called terrorists or are they unarmed civilians ?

Edited May 15, 2010 by plazot11

[spidermike007]

Yes, all red shirts are putting themselves at risk, and jeapordizing the well being of their country. They are

misled, misinformed, and there is a price to be paid for accepting the 300 baht per day they are being

paid by the ultimate goon. The government needed to assume control immediately, and they did not.

They lost control of the situation through a lack of action. The government and the military have shown

incredible restraint in all of this. But, the time has come to stop the anarchy. I am not sure how many

years it is going to take for the tourism industry to recover. We do not know what kind of impact this

is going to have on Thai industry that depends on foreign investment. The loss is going to be enormous.

This is the time to try to end this. If they do not disperse, continued military action is justified, and jail

terms for the protestors, and the protest leaders is needed. Of course, getting to Thaksin, arresting him

and putting the man in prison for a long time is ultimately needed. Prior to this incident I assumed

Abhisit was more competent than he is shown to be. He has shown that he is weak.

[spidermike007]

Plazot is completely lost. He has no understanding of politics, democracy, or Thaksin's strategy.

The world does not need any more bleeding hearts. Find a real cause, that justifies your soft

heart. Stop being deluded into thinking this is about democracy. It never was about that.

[yoshiwara]

Is Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva a War Criminal ?

Abhisit has the Blood of Thai citizens on his hands.

Abhisit ordered the Thai Army to shoot unarmed people including women and children !

Abhisit uses the same old saying we must maintain the "Rule of Law" sure Mr Abhisit you maintain your laws by killing unarmed civilians.

Abhisit why not rid your country of all the poor people. Kill them all while the world stand by and does nothing !

Abhisit hope you hang on the gallows the same as Saddam Hussein, he killed his own people and was declared a War Criminal.

To the Thai Army Stop The Killing of your own brothers and sisters !!

Look at the pictures of the so called terrorists or are they unarmed civilians ?

There you go.

The red apologist mantra of unarmed civilians, women and children.

That the reds are happy to put their woman and children into the front line for Thaksin's 500 baht says a lot about them.

The poor people are the locals being put out of business by the red antics.

Want the killing to stop?

Go home.

And take off those Thaksin T-shirts.

[Mitker]

Plazot is completely lost. He has no understanding of politics, democracy, or Thaksin's strategy.

The world does not need any more bleeding hearts. Find a real cause, that justifies your soft

heart. Stop being deluded into thinking this is about democracy. It never was about that.

Actually he (Plazot) is just serving us the same BS red-shirt propaganda we hear for months.

But today people are dying in the street of BKK not because of the PM. He's just doing his job and rather late.

They're dying because a greedy billionaire is remotely using them and pushing them to fight while he's digging away with his family.

Edited May 15, 2010 by Mitker

[Mitker]

Yes, all red shirts are putting themselves at risk, and jeapordizing the well being of their country. They are

misled, misinformed, and there is a price to be paid for accepting the 300 baht per day they are being

paid by the ultimate goon. The government needed to assume control immediately, and they did not.

They lost control of the situation through a lack of action. The government and the military have shown

incredible restraint in all of this. But, the time has come to stop the anarchy. I am not sure how many

years it is going to take for the tourism industry to recover. We do not know what kind of impact this

is going to have on Thai industry that depends on foreign investment. The loss is going to be enormous.

This is the time to try to end this. If they do not disperse, continued military action is justified, and jail

terms for the protestors, and the protest leaders is needed. Of course, getting to Thaksin, arresting him

and putting the man in prison for a long time is ultimately needed. Prior to this incident I assumed

Abhisit was more competent than he is shown to be. He has shown that he is weak.

Leaders and their guards should be the target nr 1 to stop the violence

Thaksin will remain at bay as long as there is any risk for his comfort

Common red protesters have been so brainwashed that is it rather difficult to decide the best way to deal with them

[redparrot]

Is Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva a War Criminal ?

Abhisit has the Blood of Thai citizens on his hands.

Abhisit ordered the Thai Army to shoot unarmed people including women and children !

Abhisit uses the same old saying we must maintain the "Rule of Law" sure Mr Abhisit you maintain your laws by killing unarmed civilians.

Abhisit why not rid your country of all the poor people. Kill them all while the world stand by and does nothing !

Abhisit hope you hang on the gallows the same as Saddam Hussein, he killed his own people and was declared a War Criminal.

To the Thai Army Stop The Killing of your own brothers and sisters !!

Look at the pictures of the so called terrorists or are they unarmed civilians ?

There you go.

The red apologist mantra of unarmed civilians, women and children.

That the reds are happy to put their woman and children into the front line for Thaksin's 500 baht says a lot about them.

The poor people are the locals being put out of business by the red antics.

Want the killing to stop?

Go home.

And take off those Thaksin T-shirts.

If I give someone 500 Baht, does that mean I can shoot and kill them? You're ridiculous.

There is no proof that the protesters are being paid, just allegations, which Dan Rivers from CNN, who I find a lot more credible than an anonymous forum poster, said was most likely not the case with the majority of protesters, if not all of them.