More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[lilkitty]

Personally, I'm not concerned about the armed red shirts getting shot at. They have weapons to defend themselves, so it's a somewhat fair fight. What I'm worried about is the thousands of elderly, women and children, that have no way to defend themselves and are basically facing execution. And yes, feel free to say they can leave and all that, but they're not leaving. That doesn't mean that they should be killed. That's no excuse, period.

[jcbangkok]

deleted

Edited May 17, 2010 by jcbangkok

[Slip]

Let me say first that what I want to point with this post is only how the international media report the situation. I attach here 4 screen shots from BBC, Al Jazeera, CNN and Channel News Asia. All of them have the same title more or less: "Thai protesters defy evacuation deadline". The important think is the photos that are using for this articles. There is no photo of violence, 2 of them have kids, one is showing a peaceful group of people and another the dead military leader of the Reds (but not in a violent photo). The one conclusion is that the Thai government has lost for the time being the "media game". And it will need some very convincing arguments to change the mindset of the media. Is it important? No for the situation in Thailand but it is important for the credibility of the government at the international level. Very difficult days in front of Abhisit!

Abisit & the Govt need to hire the high powered PR firms that Thaksin has hired to turn out the sound bites suitable for western audiences and usable by CNN, BBC etc. I know they shouldn't have to do this but it's time to recognize that there is a media war being raged against the Govt somewhat orchestrated by ...... guess who & his money.

Just one rhetoric question; can you see beyond these two persons? Anhisit and Thaksin? You are talking here for reporters that have years of experience and you thing that they play the game of Thaksin or Abhisit? I know the international reporters; the majority of them are people looking after the truth. I am sorry for my expression but they don't give a s..... about Thaksin or Abhisit. It might happens with the Thai media but with the international ones your reasoning is not valid.

Well, even now, after all this time, anyone who ignores Thaksin's influence is a fool, or biased one way or the other. Bit like CNN and the Beeb really. Sad days for an Englishman....

[Abrak]

Out of interest I ask a genuine question.

If 10,000 professional soldiers, totally unarmed, had entered that camp 4 days ago to arrest or shut it down what would have happened? Say there were 4,000 protesters of which most were peaceful. And lets assume that they were warned that 'unarmed' military were going to close the site.

Do you think it would have been closed?

Would lots of soldiers have been shot and maybe retreated?

Would it be a suicide mission?

[TAWP]

Personally, I'm not concerned about the armed red shirts getting shot at. They have weapons to defend themselves, so it's a somewhat fair fight. What I'm worried about is the thousands of elderly, women and children, that have no way to defend themselves and are basically facing execution. And yes, feel free to say they can leave and all that, but they're not leaving. That doesn't mean that they should be killed. That's no excuse, period.

No elderly, woman or child has faced execution nor violence from the army.

No-one that is sitting infront of the stages peacefully has anything to fear.

That is the problem partly, since the government knows they cannot go in and arrest them without violent elements making the hole scene very problematic, so the government is waiting for everyone peaceful to leave on their own accord.

No-one wants anyone peaceful to get hurt.

[stepenwolf1958]

Congratulation about spirit who made this video clip.

Humorous attitude despite of very critical situation made me admire to this guy who made this video.

I hope that will be wind of change.

[jcbangkok]

From France24

Red Shirt commendos equipped with automatic weapons

[Netfan]

They are not arresting anyone that leaves peacefully. They are giving them a free ride home.

The ones they catch being violent (attacking the army) are being put away if they are caught.

and i suppose the nearly 300 dead and hurting means nothing to you?

for those of you have been advocating a violent solution, events didnt quite follow your plan, did they?

you were hoping for a clinical, surgical strike on ratchaP that would leave only Reds with spears in their hands dead. in your silly fantasy land, no innocents would suffer.

and certainly you never DREAMED that instead of waiting for annhiliation that Thaksin would outsmart you, and attack first. which is is exaclty what he did in Din Daeng, Ratchaprop, Victory and most importantly Bon Kai/sathorn/klong toei.

the proponents of invading Ratchap werent just flat out wrong about innocents being spared. your entire strategy has been proven to upended.

Face it, Thaksin outsmarted you.

The proper strategy was and remains a general amensty, followed by elections, followed by a government seen as legitmate to all thais. if bush could bring in the sunni tribes, so can abhisit bring in the Reds.

Nearly 300 dead? When? The more you distort the truth, the more you discredit yourself and the movement you are representing.

Again, the "anti-reds" here have been the ones advocating a peaceful solution - the reds call it off before the government is forced to go in. they had a big victory - early elections. they turned it down.

you seem to be proud of the attacks, as YOU call them, in Din Daeng, Bon Kai, etc. So who is it that is hoping for violence?

Amnesty? For terrorism? What country would do that? It just invites the next disgruntled group to do the same.

The reds, with every move approved / disapproved by Thaksin (according to Seh Daeng) have been spoiling for this fight. Again, hopefully no women or children will be injured. Thaksin could ask the women and children to go home, be safe, as his wife and children are. But he doesn't care about their welfare, only his money and power.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Netfan

[jcbangkok]

Be interesting when some of the official reports of the shootings come out. No expert on acoustics but sounds like this shot was fired from a small caliber weapon very close to the person being shot in the foot. In fact when you go further in the video, it doesn't even appear the mic on this video picks up close voices that well.

Looks like you need to click on the video to view it in a new window.

Edited May 17, 2010 by jcbangkok

[bangkokeddie]

read first, understand the series of posts and then reply :-) Yes violence sells but what I was telling is that the last hours the international media do not report on Thailand on the basis of violent pictures.

Sorry, must have got lost in translation. Sometimes it's difficult to understand exactly what people are trying to say...

[rabo]

I didn't look since I don't need convincing but you can see a number of videos of reds with assault rifles if you go back a couple pages in this thread or if you watch Thai TV. In addition to assault rifles you will see grenade launchers as well as molotov cocktails (which if hit with one, you would wish you were shot) as well as spears and slingshots which certainly can also be a deadly weapon. But "IF" you are insinuating they got rid of their weapons from the 10th then I beg differ just out of common sense.

I'm just interested to know if they are using the weapons that they allegedly have. I'm well aware that they took weapons before and then returned them, as I understand it the army claim that allegedly they didn't get them all back. It has to be said that there seems to be little evidence that they're using them. I totally concur with what you said about the molotov cocktails etc.

There is a huge amount of evidence for weapons going way back. At random.

Seh Daeng is famous for his love of grenades, he fired one into Anupong's office the day after he was relived of duty.

Significant weapons caches were found in Seh Daeng's home and the home of his advisor.

Other weapons are rumored to have been stolen from the military.

The police discovered a small factory in Ayutthaya manufacturing components for M79 launchers.

They discovered several hundred pieces but the owner said he had already delivered about 1000 to unknown customer.

35 kilos of C4 explosive in 7 bombs was placed on powr pylons and detonated April 10, only 4 exploded.

Around April 20th an RPG rocket was used to try and destroy a 200,000 jet fuel tank at a PTT fuel depot.

Last night 3 RPGs were fired into the upper floors of the Dusit hotel.

April 28 (my Bday) 63 M79 grenades were conficsated while being delivered near the red/army fighting out near Don Meuang.

By end of April roughy 80 bombings had been reported nation wide.

After April 10, several raids on red apartments in Bangkok yielded war weapons.

Various photos of reds carrying weapons.

The assassination of the Army commanders on the night of April 10th.

Nearly 100 Soliders were shot on the night of April 10th.

Videos of reds using weapons including the one yesterday of a grenade launcher.

20 years ago when I came here the first time grenades were 600 baht/unit.

The M79s delivered April 28 were being sold for 1200 baht/unit. (inflation)

Weapons are readily available in Thailand.

And theres more, the reds are heavily armed, but it's problaby groups of rangers, not the common thugs

although some of them may get weapons elsewhere.

[lilkitty]

Congratulation about spirit who made this video clip.

Humorous attitude despite of very critical situation made me admire to this guy who made this video.

I hope that will be wind of change.

The same guy also made this video about Abhisit:

[dman961]

Thais shooting Thais with live ammo. Haven't they heard of crowd control, the use of water cannon, plastic bullets, tear gas, roit police and horses, bringing down the number of casualties? How can any Thai squaddy comply to an order to shoot on his own kind with live ammo because they are demonstrating for something in which they believe. This really will effect Thailand for many years to come. A whole country slit down the middle. A real mess which will now only get worse. Keep firing live rounds and they will have no choice but to go underground which will probably result in the likes of roadside bombings in public places etc. The end of the land of smiles is here. Sad times. My thoughts are with the dead and wounded. R.I.P.

Edited May 17, 2010 by dman961

[TheOldWolf]

About losing the PR_war. I think the CRES and the goverment have more important things to take care of, then what different TV-channels and news papers are reporting from Bangkok. There are a battle against an armed mob going on.

And for the looting, even if it is not real red shirts looting, so is the looting possible because the reds shirt let the mob free to do whatever they like on the streets. The red leaders are out of control now. So save the innocent sheeps and let them go home, so the army can deal with trach in the streets.

[datum]

read first, understand the series of posts and then reply :-) Yes violence sells but what I was telling is that the last hours the international media do not report on Thailand on the basis of violent pictures.

Sorry, must have got lost in translation. Sometimes it's difficult to understand exactly what people are trying to say...

no problem :-) it happens in the forums. Especially when many of us are not native speakers.

[Slip]

Let me say first that what I want to point with this post is only how the international media report the situation. I attach here 4 screen shots from BBC, Al Jazeera, CNN and Channel News Asia. All of them have the same title more or less: "Thai protesters defy evacuation deadline". The important think is the photos that are using for this articles. There is no photo of violence, 2 of them have kids, one is showing a peaceful group of people and another the dead military leader of the Reds (but not in a violent photo). The one conclusion is that the Thai government has lost for the time being the "media game". And it will need some very convincing arguments to change the mindset of the media. Is it important? No for the situation in Thailand but it is important for the credibility of the government at the international level. Very difficult days in front of Abhisit!

Abisit & the Govt need to hire the high powered PR firms that Thaksin has hired to turn out the sound bites suitable for western audiences and usable by CNN, BBC etc. I know they shouldn't have to do this but it's time to recognize that there is a media war being raged against the Govt somewhat orchestrated by ...... guess who & his money.

Just one rhetoric question; can you see beyond these two persons? Anhisit and Thaksin? You are talking here for reporters that have years of experience and you thing that they play the game of Thaksin or Abhisit? I know the international reporters; the majority of them are people looking after the truth. I am sorry for my expression but they don't give a s..... about Thaksin or Abhisit. It might happens with the Thai media but with the international ones your reasoning is not valid.

Well I don't really care about Abisit either. He's simply the PM and leader of the Govt and theoretical "man in charge" on the Govt side and I suppose that's why many people use "Abisit" when they just as easily could use "Government".

But on the other hand I am concerned about Thaksin and those crackerjack international reporters should be also if they want to find the "truth" and I believe those journalists who have been living here understand this.

The international media coverage of this event, by most recognised channels, blows goats. The fact that the recurring identity red shirt-apologists have so many links atm is because of shit, sales based reporting by companies that are supposed to be interested in civilised human values, rather than flogging papers or scoring hits on their site. (Just for the record Maggie and Rupert f****d professional reporting in the UK- same as free milk and the miners).

[jcbangkok]

Red Shirt use BABY as human SHIELD.MP4

[haroldc]

Out of interest I ask a genuine question.

If 10,000 professional soldiers, totally unarmed, had entered that camp 4 days ago to arrest or shut it down what would have happened? Say there were 4,000 protesters of which most were peaceful. And lets assume that they were warned that 'unarmed' military were going to close the site.

Do you think it would have been closed?

Would lots of soldiers have been shot and maybe retreated?

Would it be a suicide mission?

Unfortunately, you are unlikely to get a genuine answer. About a month ago, I also posted a genuine question and requested that only people with professional security experience answer: what are your respective governments' SOPs for this type of situation? (At that time it was a still a relatively confined demonstration, although intimations of potential violence were present.)

I did not receive even one post in response.

So maybe it is time to pose the question again. (To security professionals only, no armchair warriors, please.)

[DagonKhan]

I didn't look since I don't need convincing but you can see a number of videos of reds with assault rifles if you go back a couple pages in this thread or if you watch Thai TV. In addition to assault rifles you will see grenade launchers as well as molotov cocktails (which if hit with one, you would wish you were shot) as well as spears and slingshots which certainly can also be a deadly weapon. But "IF" you are insinuating they got rid of their weapons from the 10th then I beg differ just out of common sense.

I'm just interested to know if they are using the weapons that they allegedly have. I'm well aware that they took weapons before and then returned them, as I understand it the army claim that allegedly they didn't get them all back. It has to be said that there seems to be little evidence that they're using them. I totally concur with what you said about the molotov cocktails etc.

Sorry, you'll have to click to see this photo from LIFE mag. Are they using weapons? you tell me.

http://www.life.com/image/99594324/in-gall...ror-in-thailand

Indeed, I saw that photo yesterday somewhere of the guy with the hand gun. What I haven't seen is any photos or video of the reds using the weapons they allegedly failed to return to the army though.

[LuckyLew]

Personally, I'm not concerned about the armed red shirts getting shot at. They have weapons to defend themselves, so it's a somewhat fair fight. What I'm worried about is the thousands of elderly, women and children, that have no way to defend themselves and are basically facing execution. And yes, feel free to say they can leave and all that, but they're not leaving. That doesn't mean that they should be killed. That's no excuse, period.

IMO they are not allowed to leave

IMO they are told by red leaders or other reds that they cannot leave

Either by force by intimidation or by Thai Baht I believe they feel they cannot leave

[ChemiseRouge]

AFP: "I stand with my countrymen in this terrible hour in our history," Thaksin said in a statement.

AFP: "The pictures that I have seen go beyond any nightmares that could have been envisaged." said Thaksin

AFP: "I have no choice but to state resolutely the need for all sides to step back from this terrible abyss." Said Thaksin

AFP: "Seek to begin a new, genuine and sincere dialogue between the parties," he said.

AFP "The present action of the government dishonour our history and will forever weaken our institutions and democracy." Said Thaksin.

now for some retail therapy as I've come over all emotional

Marie Claire team spotted REAL Thaksin Shinawatra at Louis Vuitton Champ Elysee on Sat May 15th

the man is as shallow as he is conniving - certainly looks like he is truly grieving.

[kaengk]

We all know the Thai military has weapons, duh! We all know that the Thai military has factions who support the Reds, factions who support the yellows, and many other factions as well. The point is that a truly democratic leader would not agree to coagulate as many different factions of the military around innocent civilians in an urban environment. Abhisit was just plain stupid, or highly dishonest. He should have gone on national TV and announced that normally he would use the police for crowd dispersal but that he cannot trust the Thai police. Then, he could explain that the Thai military was in factions and he cannot use them either. Regrettably, the expensive handbag shops may have been closed a bit longer. Who cares?

[animatic]

First they are not terrorists

Second they dont have machine guns .

Third if they had machine guns you would see tens of soldiers killed

Please dont alter the truth . Thank you

PS : Or if they have machine guns they dont use them , which comes to the same

as not having them

YES by any dictionaries definition THEY ARE TERRORISTS. You are the one altering the truth. No country in the world differentiates between waving machine guns at people and using them. THEY HAVE MACHINE GUNS and bombs and grenades and lots of other weapons. They are terrorists. As soon as you have an armed mob any country in the world would use force of equal weaponry to remove them and bring safety back to the city. What are you thinking?

Ter·ror·ist –noun. a person, usually a member of a group, who uses or advocates terrorism.

2. a person who terrorizes or frightens others.

3. (formerly) a member of a political group in russia aiming at the demoralization of the government by terror.

4.an agent or partisan of the revolutionary tribunal during the Reign of Terror in France.

–adjective5. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of terrorism or terrorists: terrorist tactics.

Origin: 1785–95; terror + -ist; cf. F terroriste

Random House Dictionary

Terrorist

in the modern sense, 1947, especially in reference to Jewish tactics against the British in Palestine --

earlier it was used of extremist revolutionaries in Russia (1866); and Jacobins during the French Revolution (1795) --

from Fr. terroriste; see terror + -ist (also cf. terrorism).

The tendency of one party's terrorist to be another's guerilla or freedom fighter

was noted in ref. to the British action in Cyprus (1956) and the war in Rhodesia (1973).

The word terrorist has been applied, at least retroactively, to the Maquis resistance in occupied France in World War II

(e.g. in the "Spectator," Oct. 20, 1979).

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper

Cite This Source

Fits quite well.

Certainly tens of thousands of Bkk residence are terrified to go buy food,

while sitting in darkened apartments, without fans or AC, wondering if

a grenade or bullets will hit their window, or if their building will catch fire,

and listening to gunfire, grenade explosions and mad howling in the streets below.

Edited May 17, 2010 by animatic

[stepenwolf1958]

Congratulation about spirit who made this video clip.

Humorous attitude despite of very critical situation made me admire to this guy who made this video.

I hope that will be wind of change.

The same guy also made this video about Abhisit:

Hahaha...I am asking of all people here to don't mind me i laugh but this second video is GREAT but i like more the first one, as it has better music in background.

Music in a second video is strange to my ears and agressive in sounds but the first video has a lovely Esan theme.

As i know, Thaksin was born in area where is the music like from video.

If it is the same with Abhisit, if he was born in area where is music from second video, i am not surprised by his"touch" for democracy and diplomacy, at all.

Thanks LilKitty for another video clip.

Let's hope all together here will be not Bosnia, Beirut or Belfast.

One thing on my mind now, Thailand Land of Killing Smile (i hope will be not transformed in land of killing fields as it was in Cambodia).

Cheers

[lilkitty]

Red Shirt use BABY as human SHIELD.MP4

That baby shouldn't be there in the first place, you're right. But also:

Nobody shooting at the baby = baby not human shield.

[GungaDin]

The yellow shirts and especially their leaders committed acts of terrorism, by leading their followers to take over a government building and hold it hostage for nearly a year,

It is nearly a year now that the yellows did these things? Wow. The further away an event is, the further distorted is the truth...

It's where it all started. So it is relevant.

No Pussy, it started with a convicted fraudster, pocketing millions of dollars & the deaths of hundreds of innocents with his so-called 'war on drugs'.

He's a very naughty boy.

[lilkitty]

AFP: "I stand with my countrymen in this terrible hour in our history," Thaksin said in a statement.

AFP: "The pictures that I have seen go beyond any nightmares that could have been envisaged." said Thaksin

AFP: "I have no choice but to state resolutely the need for all sides to step back from this terrible abyss." Said Thaksin

AFP: "Seek to begin a new, genuine and sincere dialogue between the parties," he said.

AFP "The present action of the government dishonour our history and will forever weaken our institutions and democracy." Said Thaksin.

now for some retail therapy as I've come over all emotional

Marie Claire team spotted REAL Thaksin Shinawatra at Louis Vuitton Champ Elysee on Sat May 15th

the man is as shallow as he is conniving - certainly looks like he is truly grieving.

So glad to see Abhisit and Suthep on the contrary are out on the streets fighting with their soldiers. Aren't you?

[Slip]

Congratulation about spirit who made this video clip.

Humorous attitude despite of very critical situation made me admire to this guy who made this video.

I hope that will be wind of change.

The same guy also made this video about Abhisit:

Sadly, it was nowhere near as funny- bit like the Shermans buggering up 'the office'.

[kissdani]

Well, anyone who speaks Thai or has a Thai wife needs to watch this!! If your wife watches it, get the kleenex ready!

Watch This!

(can anyone tell me how to embed youtube videos on this site?)

My wife, MIL, sisters etc, just watched it and all burst into sobbing tears. It is above politics and shows the real feelings of the normal Thai person as to what is happening in this country right now.

If anyone can give a better translation please do, but what I picked up was this. The guy picks up an award at a Thai TV awards show, and during the speech says something along the following lines. "This 'house' used to have lots of fighting, the family were never happy and fought about everything. Then along came our Father, he worked so hard to build a beautiful new 'House' for us, where we could all be happy and live together. As a young boy, I grew up in such a happy house and my Father loved us all and we all loved him so dearly. Now some members of our family are fighting for someone else and want to destroy our 'house', and hurt our Father and even take him away. Why? If you don't love our Father anymore, then just leave our House and let us be happy once again with him, we love him and we would all die for him"

All very emotional and a standing ovation. It is flying around the Thai social networking sites at the speed of light. If this is broadcast to the 'normal' red protestors they will all go home within 20 minutes of watching it.

yeah . . . please bring it here with TRANSLATION too !

as far as I know that he referred to the FATHER, is a metaphor and he actually refers to the King. and about the current political situation too !

Then take it to another place. not relevant to this topic as this man above this. hope not to have to read more of this guff.

Should be played to the Farangs at TVF who don't get the meaning of the "The UN is not my father" line.

[lilkitty]

The yellow shirts and especially their leaders committed acts of terrorism, by leading their followers to take over a government building and hold it hostage for nearly a year,

It is nearly a year now that the yellows did these things? Wow. The further away an event is, the further distorted is the truth...

It's where it all started. So it is relevant.

No Pussy, it started with a convicted fraudster, pocketing millions of dollars & the deaths of hundreds of innocents with his so-called 'war on drugs'.

He's a very naughty boy.

Might have even started a bit earlier, when Sondhi brought Thaksin to power and called him "the best PM Thailand ever had". Something must have happened that these 2 aren't friends anymore. If they could make up and make out again ( ) I'm sure things would generally improve in Thailand.

Edited May 17, 2010 by lilkitty