Thousands Of Thai Protesters Defy Deadline To Leave

[tartempion]

Thaksin is paying the "leaders" 30 million baht each to do his dirty work and as paymaster ....his word is law......

I would appreciate to see a posting or thread detailing the financing of the red protest: (and substantiated amounts, no bullshit please)

How much are they paid: protester, guard, fighters, bosses.

How is the food and infrastructure organised? (tents, shouting equipment, toilets, shower rooms even diesel generators?)

Flow of money, how does it get from top to bottom?

When are they paid? Daily, weekly, when its over, never?

Where do these bloody tires come from, who brings them from where, no police to stop these trucks?

It seems to me they are well organised to achieve all this, unlike the competition (especially the police - which I guess are mainly red also and simply stay away from the action)

And no, I do not have 100 million in my taxin account to pay the TV members who made the most stupid comment. Records of stupidity are broken daily on this board. If each should be paid 1 million I would need a lot more than a poor 100 million.

[travelingmike]

I agree that change will and must come to Thailand. The big questions that seem to be destroying the city at the moment are who will lead the change and how it will happen. That's not to suggest that change wasn't and isn't happening in Thailand, it's that it's not happening fast enough for some, or perhaps the leaders of this movement have other objectives in play. Now this current demonstration could very well bring down the govt, but what's it to be replaced with? I'm sure that there must be capable people in the Red camp, but I haven't heard or read any constructive solutions to the plight of inequality in rural areas. As far as the current govt goes, it inherited an almost impossible mess that would really require a few miracles to sort. Well if your trying to sort that past and bring about change in a nation whose local and national govts are stepped in corruption, I'd say totally impossible. I'd say that the current PM has had the unlucky job of trying to deliver the mail with a pack of angry dogs nipping his heels. Yes change will come, maybe a new govt in a few months, maybe more grants to farmers and maybe some improvements in education and the rural infra-structure, but the real problems of Thailand will take decades to change. Destroying Bangkok is not going to help change happen any faster.

To be sure its going to take an awful long time to eradicate corruption on such a scale, but id say you should begin by showing people that NO ONE is above the law and state by upholding judgments and treating both sides with the same unwavering justice. No one let out of the country when its plain they are awaiting sentence. No police let off for killing innocents, no politicians allowed to continue when found to take bribes, no pardons for naughty boys etc. Yes the whole society will need to be changed and taught to take responsibility for its actions but it begins with showing the less fortunate that no one can get away with blatant law breaking. Its a case at the moment of sheer frustration by some and egging on by others and the fact that nothing was done about the previous occupation of the airport that sends out a clear message. If they can do it so can we, well they are wrong but then again if there had been examples made the last time there probably wouldn't be the situation right now.. the yellows etc showed the power of the mob and im sure the airport was looted and would have been just as violent had the Govs reaction at that time been the same. It wasn't and so its clear to a lot of Thais there is one rule for one and another for others. This cannot continue if there is to be any hope for change. Because something is very hard does not mean you shouldn't strive to put right what is obviously so very wrong, in fact it makes it all the more important to strive for and some have obviously thought its literally worth fighting for.Unfortunately they are probably fighting for the same corruption to continue albeit under a different guise. One day someone will step up but its unclear who that person might be at the moment. If anything right now Thailand need a Gandhi type figure who understands, really loves the poor and has a simple but honest wish to do what is right for the people. The current PM or the other factions dont have such a character that is clear.

But-the airport was not looted. The duty free shops and even the mini mart in front totally intact after the yellow shirts left.

[tigerfish]

Would you call that boy looking over the tyres a human shield.I suggest you print something factual.My thioughts would have been,he is showing the boy to the soldiers to show that he is there.

NOW

If someone had said the boy should not be there i would have agreed but dont spout crap on here

I can only hope that I don't know you in the real life, that I never met you, and that I will never meet you.....I am disgusted by your post

You never know you luck,may be good maybe be very bad

somtampet.....if you type into Google; 'define human shield', you will learn something, and be one step closer to the 'elite'.

Or does your alliance to the Reds require you to be this challenged?

alliance to which reds though!

being the stoke(choke) city fan that he is, i should think that confirms on how challenged!

Edited May 18, 2010 by tigerfish

[scubarick]

Army and Police should protect their people rather than an ambitious ruler. It is a big shame from the point of view of other country army if armed soldiers fight against unarmed civilian. This kind of army has no honor, they should bring lipstick instead of gun

The ambitious ruler you support is Thaksin.

The reds are not unarmed they are violent thugs.

If you want some lipstick try to find a 7-11 your friends haven't looted.

Well said Yoshiwara

.....and the fact that they are breaking the LAW.

Have you seen somtampet's posts?....errr.....interesting

[KMUTT]

Wow! The reds defied the deadline? I thought that they would pack up and go home peacefully .

Well since the reds claimed a million would come that means that with 5000 remaining, 995,000 have gone home.

remaining only 4999 since Veera (one of the 3 red shirt leaders) also left together with the 995,000

Veera isn't the only one abandoning ship.

The red site is down to 3,000 remaining.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100517/ts_af..._20100517232240

[Old Man River]

Was Sudarat on the list? She has been churning out the money, her BKK mafia and killers on a daily basis

If you are right, I would expect some Dems to start leaking all kind of stuff starting right now just to rile their supporters and Bangkokians. Any talks will favour Jatuporn etc and not the Dems and I would expect them to make it well known

Yes, the Bird Flu Debacle Killer Deceiver Sudarat has had her finances frozen and was on the list.

She's always in the thick of things dirty.

She is and hasd been one of the most vile poltiicans for ages. Worse than Chalerm not quite as bad as Chavalit. The really vile ones seem attracted to PTP

Interestingly, the freeze means just that. It usually takes a lot of time to go through past transactions, but all of a sudden they know that two of Pojamon's aids had removed a total of THB 1.4 billion in cash and took it away in trucks and also that one of the protest leader's had purchased luxury vehicles and two large houses and still had THB 100 million in his account.

BTW, the reason the aids told the banks that they were cashing out THB 1.4 billion and driving the cash away in trucks is because they were buying amulets and lottery tickets.

[Everett]

Watched a CNN report this evening ...

...To call this journalism would be a joke - apparently the underdog makes more money. All Americans and Europeans are fed totally false news - I thnk the army should arrest the journalists and kick them out of the country

Yes, all mainstream news owned by the corporations like CNN, NBC, FOX NEWS, etc. and any of their sister or parent companies are ALL propaganda! They only want to push their own views on people.

I'd recommend everyone does themselves a favor and stops getting "news" from any of the mainstream networks. Use the Internet and find independent journalists and news websites.

[Old Man River]

Thaksin is paying the "leaders" 30 million baht each to do his dirty work and as paymaster ....his word is law......

I would appreciate to see a posting or thread detailing the financing of the red protest: (and substantiated amounts, no bullshit please)

How much are they paid: protester, guard, fighters, bosses.

How is the food and infrastructure organised? (tents, shouting equipment, toilets, shower rooms even diesel generators?)

Flow of money, how does it get from top to bottom?

When are they paid? Daily, weekly, when its over, never?

Where do these bloody tires come from, who brings them from where, no police to stop these trucks?

You will never know for sure and aren't meant to. At best, you will pick up info here and there and piece it together, but none of the sources will ever be verified.

I have seen things written, but have no clue how authentic any of it is and that includes anything written on TV. However, if you want to get an idea of what the core leaders got, note that it has been reported this morning that one of the Red leaders had THB 100 million in his account and also had purchased luxury vehicles and two houses totaling THB 20 million.

[DeadPuppy]

I agree that change will and must come to Thailand. The big questions that seem to be destroying the city at the moment are who will lead the change and how it will happen. That's not to suggest that change wasn't and isn't happening in Thailand, it's that it's not happening fast enough for some, or perhaps the leaders of this movement have other objectives in play. Now this current demonstration could very well bring down the govt, but what's it to be replaced with? I'm sure that there must be capable people in the Red camp, but I haven't heard or read any constructive solutions to the plight of inequality in rural areas. As far as the current govt goes, it inherited an almost impossible mess that would really require a few miracles to sort. Well if your trying to sort that past and bring about change in a nation whose local and national govts are stepped in corruption, I'd say totally impossible. I'd say that the current PM has had the unlucky job of trying to deliver the mail with a pack of angry dogs nipping his heels. Yes change will come, maybe a new govt in a few months, maybe more grants to farmers and maybe some improvements in education and the rural infra-structure, but the real problems of Thailand will take decades to change. Destroying Bangkok is not going to help change happen any faster.

To be sure its going to take an awful long time to eradicate corruption on such a scale, but id say you should begin by showing people that NO ONE is above the law and state by upholding judgments and treating both sides with the same unwavering justice. No one let out of the country when its plain they are awaiting sentence. No police let off for killing innocents, no politicians allowed to continue when found to take bribes, no pardons for naughty boys etc. Yes the whole society will need to be changed and taught to take responsibility for its actions but it begins with showing the less fortunate that no one can get away with blatant law breaking. Its a case at the moment of sheer frustration by some and egging on by others and the fact that nothing was done about the previous occupation of the airport that sends out a clear message. If they can do it so can we, well they are wrong but then again if there had been examples made the last time there probably wouldn't be the situation right now.. the yellows etc showed the power of the mob and im sure the airport was looted and would have been just as violent had the Govs reaction at that time been the same. It wasn't and so its clear to a lot of Thais there is one rule for one and another for others. This cannot continue if there is to be any hope for change. Because something is very hard does not mean you shouldn't strive to put right what is obviously so very wrong, in fact it makes it all the more important to strive for and some have obviously thought its literally worth fighting for.Unfortunately they are probably fighting for the same corruption to continue albeit under a different guise. One day someone will step up but its unclear who that person might be at the moment. If anything right now Thailand need a Gandhi type figure who understands, really loves the poor and has a simple but honest wish to do what is right for the people. The current PM or the other factions dont have such a character that is clear.

But-the airport was not looted. The duty free shops and even the mini mart in front totally intact after the yellow shirts left.

Mike I think that the real beef there is the the leaders of the airport seizure have not been prosecuted for their actions. I think that's the point that EnglishOak and I are making about corruption and applying the laws equally and evenly. If you're comparing the two movements, I'd say that what the yellows did pales in comparison to what the reds have done and are currently doing. But, if you want to prosecute the Reds, you need to begin by prosecuting the Yellows.

[Markaew]

Yap Yap Yap... Talk about a bunch of trolls

The thread is what happens now ? ... everytime a new thread is added it gets hijacked into a mud slinging contest I can only conclude its the only thing some posters are here for.Some of us dont want to hear all the point scoring so go take it to the local bar

Moderators you need to tell people to stay on topic its getting ridiculous.

I agree but my bar is blockaded now.

[Markaew]

Wow you are truely of your rocker

Get a grip, people are detroying your country

and you support it, you are as bad as the people

burning the tires, trying to blow up a gas tanker.

They havent killed anyone as far as i know

If you get shot at with live bullets what would you do ?

There is madness on both sides , i grant it to you

You obviously know very little. Then again, if Jatuporn cut someones throat in front of 30 reporters, you would deny it. TROLL

Why wasn't this secondary post deleted?

[KMUTT]

BTW, the reason the aids told the banks that they were cashing out THB 1.4 billion and driving the cash away in trucks is because they were buying amulets and lottery tickets.

Doesn't everyone invest more in lottery ticket purchases than the total of winning the Grand Prize is?

Reds always seem to be the worst liars...

[Markaew]

I'd think the news would deserve more tolerant posts from the majority of you

Do not feed the trolls.

On topic.

people who apply western ideology to eastern premise will get caughtup in saving poor orfans

and would go to the opening of an envelope only to polish one's own hat.

wherever your from it's biggoted to apply everything you know to everything you see.

I don;t understand why everyone has jumped on the kid human shield thing, it seems you've probably

turned something whereas a guy took his kid to see how cruel his government was making him hate that government.

Coming from the hills it's unlikely he will have seen that mass of military in one area instilling a hatred for the military into the kid.

The westernised world is in a fascist state where everyone is deemed equal where those who are now equal

actually get more that those who are not.

but maybe i've said to much

Good post!

[siampolee]

UN urges negotiated solution, saying there is high risk that situation could spiral out of control:

Sad to say the Red Shirt Brigade (mis) leaders do not want peace, their puppet master forbids peace talks. Thaksins aim is to destroy Thailand as his insatiable lust for revenge shows us all.

How many plans have been put on the table only to be vetoed by Thaksin ?

How many more lives to be sacrificed to please Thaksin so that he and his clan of blood and money sucking leeches can feed and gorge themselves on the carcass of Thailand and its people ?

Yet there are still people (supposedly educated) in this forum who cannot or will not accept the truth concerning Thaksin and his hi-jacking of a grass roots movement for a more equal society to further his own ends.

Looking at the past pedigree a number of the Red Shirt Brigade proponents have proudly published in various threads in T.V. we see support for people like Daniel Cohn-Bendit, the Red Brigade, Baader Meinhof etc: hardly models of democratic protest by any stretch of the imagination.

Democracy is a strange beast and it evolves according to the way the people want it to, slowly change will come, violence by terrorism is however not the answer.

Edited May 18, 2010 by siampolee

[KMUTT]

Was Sudarat on the list? She has been churning out the money, her BKK mafia and killers on a daily basis

If you are right, I would expect some Dems to start leaking all kind of stuff starting right now just to rile their supporters and Bangkokians. Any talks will favour Jatuporn etc and not the Dems and I would expect them to make it well known

Yes, the Bird Flu Debacle Killer Deceiver Sudarat has had her finances frozen and was on the list.

She's always in the thick of things dirty.

She is and hasd been one of the most vile poltiicans for ages. Worse than Chalerm not quite as bad as Chavalit. The really vile ones seem attracted to PTP

I see that Sudarat was outed in this morning's paper, by a UDD Leader no less, as being one of the principal bag man (woman) with the money funding the Reds:

"I accept that Thaksin himself and some politicians, including Khunying Sudarat, have given us financial support, as have other donors, but I don't know how much they've donated," UDD co-leader Jaran Dithapichai said on the Ratchaprasong rally stage last night.

"What's wrong with that? Rallies have costs and we need donors."

[Thai at Heart]

Was Sudarat on the list? She has been churning out the money, her BKK mafia and killers on a daily basis

If you are right, I would expect some Dems to start leaking all kind of stuff starting right now just to rile their supporters and Bangkokians. Any talks will favour Jatuporn etc and not the Dems and I would expect them to make it well known

Yes, the Bird Flu Debacle Killer Deceiver Sudarat has had her finances frozen and was on the list.

She's always in the thick of things dirty.

She is and hasd been one of the most vile poltiicans for ages. Worse than Chalerm not quite as bad as Chavalit. The really vile ones seem attracted to PTP

I see that Sudarat was outed in this morning's paper, by a UDD Leader no less, as being one of the principal bag man (woman) with the money funding the Reds:

"I accept that Thaksin himself and some politicians, including Khunying Sudarat, have given us financial support, as have other donors, but I don't know how much they've donated," UDD co-leader Jaran Dithapichai said on the Ratchaprasong rally stage last night.

"What's wrong with that? Rallies have costs and we need donors."

Oh I bet she is over the moon about that one.

In true Thai fashion she should now slap him with a defamation suit.

[Herm]

Now, slowly some of the truth is emerging. The excuses of the persons involved remind me very much of the ridiculous excuses made here by the red supporters.

Good example; Withdrew 500 and 300 Million baht in cash to buy lottery tickets and amulets. The mind boggles at such spurious excuses.

Thaksin, who as anyone with a certain level of intelligence could easily grasp, together with a few accomplices, finances the whole event. He also dictates the actions of the mob.

One dares to believe that besides having a paid propaganda team, he may have also paid off some of the Bangkok based foreign journalists. The international news coverage of the event is bias towards the red’s to say the least. It is actually far more than just bias, which makes one think that those “reporters” are also on Thaksins payroll.

The reasoning behind all this is obvious, Thaksin wants to topple the current government. This would result in an interim administration with members who are surely already selected by him and their first action will be to force a full pardon for their leader Thaksin and enable his return to Thailand. Than “elections” would be held with the result being more than predictable, a landslide win of the Thaksinist party who will appoint Thaksin as PM.

Nobody would dare to claim the “elections” were rigged since Thaksin has already shown his real character during the so called “drug war” with thousands of people having been killed of which a large percentage were not involved in drugs, but political enemies or just stood in his way.

Anyone posing a danger to Thaksin would have to leave the country or face imprisonment or death.

If the reds succeed, their success will install a dictator and his family firmly as the Thai ruler with a succession of rulers from the same family as seen for example in North Korea.

On the international front, Thailand will join North Korea and some African countries as a rogue nation.

The poor, the same people he is using to achieve his goal, will suffer most from a failing economy with international industries leaving for more peaceful grounds in neighboring countries and a total collapse of the former lucrative tourism industry.

The Anhisit government has no choice; Either force the mob out and establish law and order again or fail and leave the country in the hands of a dictator.

The mob, which had a rogue element in form of Sea Dengs soldiers from the beginning has now harvested virtually all criminal elements from the streets of Bangkok and up country and looting as well as bank robberies taking place on a daily basis. By extending their reign to the slum area of Klontoy, the managed to recruit every drug addict from the area.

What we have now is a mob consisting to a large part of individuals, high on amphetamines acting out their aggressions and the most dangerous part is that they are armed with serious weapons. Imagine an amphetamine high addict with an AK47 in his hands.

PM Abhisit has to act now to save the country from the aspiring Dictator Thaksin or the future of this beautiful country will surely be very dark.

p.s. you reds on this forum, please do not bother to respond, one of your leaders who used to claim this has nothing to do with Thaksin has now admitted the source of the founds and simply states that " so what, we need funding". clearly showing how much they value the truth.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Herm

[KMUTT]

Invade hospital yes and wrong

Shoot RPG at hotel . Any proof ? None

A new report in this morning's Bangkok paper has the information you seek regarding the grenades that hit the 22nd and 14th floors of the hotel and was followed by bullet fire being sprayed against it.

[saintofsilence]

Any person who doubts the reds use weapons look at this clip

Edited May 18, 2010 by saintofsilence

[Meridian007]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the (relative) lull yesterday and today is due to the reds nursing their hangovers? There is only so long that you can live on lao-kao and yabba, but I'm sure that they'll nurse themselves for a little longer and then start up again soon. Instead of closing off access to food, the government should close off the access to alcohol. Maybe the reds would start drinking the gasoline instead of burning it then...

[Herm]

At least the international media has picked up on the "holding up a child" action of the red's yesterday and talking about shooting oneself in the foot, it has not gone down well. Even the totally red bias foreign press has given them a bashing for that -

Baby at the barricades: Are Thai protesters using their child as a human shield?

Thai-protesters-use-child-human-shield

Edited May 18, 2010 by Herm

[Herm]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the (relative) lull yesterday and today is due to the reds nursing their hangovers? There is only so long that you can live on lao-kao and yabba, but I'm sure that they'll nurse themselves for a little longer and then start up again soon. Instead of closing off access to food, the government should close off the access to alcohol. Maybe the reds would start drinking the gasoline instead of burning it then...

May be its also something to do with the freezing of the accounts of local supporters with hundreds of Millions of Thaksins money in them - oh I forgot, the 500 and another 300 Million baht cash that were withdrawn and were mend for amulets and lottery tickets

The drug dealers fear they may not get paid ? and the junkies are suffering withdraw symptoms ???

[saintofsilence]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the (relative) lull yesterday and today is due to the reds nursing their hangovers? There is only so long that you can live on lao-kao and yabba, but I'm sure that they'll nurse themselves for a little longer and then start up again soon. Instead of closing off access to food, the government should close off the access to alcohol. Maybe the reds would start drinking the gasoline instead of burning it then...

May be its also something to do with the freezing of the accounts of local supporters with hundreds of Millions of Thaksins money in them - oh I forgot, the 500 and another 300 Million baht cash that were withdrawn and were mend for amulets and lottery tickets

The drug dealers fear they may not get paid ? and the junkies are suffering withdraw symptoms ???

Freezing this money should have happened last month , they have got a way with too much , 106 people and companies is a start but there will be lot more yet.

Once the money trail is fully investigated it will be very interesting to see how many other Politicians , police and army personel are on the payroll.

[JGV]

This constant tit for tat regarding what is morally right and wrong is missing the point. If this government is going to retain any degree of respect about upholding the law I think it is now time to bring in the tanks to reach a swift conclusion - if these so called reds say they will die rather than give in so be it

JGV

It has gone beyond a joke

It won't be the last time innocent lives will be lost to military might

[earthpig]

For the barbarian posters here who prefer the spilling of thai blood to amnesty, you may wish to note that even the Nation is using the "A" word:

"The red-shirt tactics appear to have been lifted straight from the textbook for urban guerrilla warfare compiled by leftists and ex-communists after the October 1976 bloodshed. Thailand foiled the plan to bring guerrilla warfare from rural areas to the capital by granting amnesty to activists who fled after the bloodshed."

If thailand could put an end to communisty violence in the months after vietnam, if bush/cheney could so briliantly convince the sunni tribes to switch sides and thereby bring on the legitimate government and democracy we now see in Iraq, then Abhisit can, and MUST, announce a general amnesty.

For all.

Except Montenegrin citizens. Of course. To allow Thaksin's return would be the blunder of blunders. He is far too smart and far too evil. But the risk of further delay is that the gov's bargaining position will become so weak that this might happen.

AMNESTY NOW.

Before the Reds win.

[earthpig]

Any person who doubts the reds use weapons look at this clip

or this one.

and anyone who doubts the Red resolve to keep fighting look at this clip

only AMNESTY can stop this madness. Even the Nation is beginning to acknowledge this.

apologies for double post.

Edited May 18, 2010 by earthpig

[bkkjames]

Any person who doubts the reds use weapons look at this clip

or this one.

and anyone who doubts the Red resolve to keep fighting look at this clip

only AMNESTY can stop this madness. Even the Nation is beginning to acknowledge this.

I think veera already has it mate;

Amnesty for Arisman, better take that demand off the table, aint gonna happen.

[Meridian007]

Um, that first video doesn't show the protester being shot at, even though he lobbed a pingpong bomb at them. If the sound of firing was the soldiers firing at him, he wouldn't have walked away so casually.

Amnesty is the wrong way at this point. A strong force with a plan to immobilize, (maybe rubber bullets to the legs), rather than kill could surround and compress the groups if there were enough soldiers. The problem is that I don't think there are enough soldiers.

The red leaders must be taken and charged with the full extent of treason, terrorism and murder, to make a lesson out of them. Then the lesser players who were just street fighters can be given amnesty. To give amnesty to the leaders, is to create a future where these monsters are allowed to play in the government. That cannot be allowed.

[earthpig]

Um, that first video doesn't show the protester being shot at, even though he lobbed a pingpong bomb at them. If the sound of firing was the soldiers firing at him, he wouldn't have walked away so casually.

To give amnesty to the leaders, is to create a future where these monsters are allowed to play in the government. That cannot be allowed.

the maoist "monsters" of '76 and the sunni "monsters" of 2004-6 were given amnesty and conditions in both these very different countries improved stunningly. amnesty is the last, best hope.

with respect to the video and your comment that the Red wasnt being shot at, unfortunately the video doesnt show a wall to my left and in front of the Red protecting him after he pulled back from lobbing the grenade. that scene took place on rama 4 and anybody who exposed any part of their body to the soldiers was shot at.

the pool of blood in the other video is from a resident who minutes earlier made that mistake.

anmensty is not a matter of IF, only WHEN and HOW MANY MORE DEAD?

[Meridian007]

The government must assert control before there can be any thoughts of amnesty. If people are getting shot, they are being shot in reaction to their attacks on the military. This is a defensive action on the part of the military to contain the destructive actions of armed thugs who are attacking them. They have been warned ad nauseum, so if they die, it is their own fault.

The reds admitting defeat and stopping their assault on Bangkok is not a matter of IF, only WHEN and HOW MANY MORE DEAD?

See, I can use the caps lock too!