Is Red Bull Dangerous?

[Thomas_Merton]

I asked this question in a thread on Red Bull - I hope someone qualified can reply.

What are the medical effects of regularly drinking Red Bull?

The berry-flavored beverage is spiked with mysterious additives like taurine and glucuronolactone. And at $2 for an 8.3-ounce can, Red Bull's retail price is at least double what you'd pay for a 12-ounce can of Coke. But it does pack some energy. Red Bull, with 80 milligrams of caffeine, has more than double the dose found in the larger Coke serving, and it has 110 calories per serving versus Coke's 140.

[uhuh]

I asked this question in a thread on Red Bull - I hope someone qualified can reply.

What are the medical effects of regularly drinking Red Bull?

The berry-flavored beverage is spiked with mysterious additives like taurine and glucuronolactone. And at $2 for an 8.3-ounce can, Red Bull's retail price is at least double what you'd pay for a 12-ounce can of Coke. But it does pack some energy. Red Bull, with 80 milligrams of caffeine, has more than double the dose found in the larger Coke serving, and it has 110 calories per serving versus Coke's 140.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's like sweetened coffee. Sure makes you fat. Coffee may actually have some benefits, I am not aware of any benefits of Red Bull.

Those "mysterious" ingredients are marketing myths, imho.

BTW Thais believe that the manufacturers put in a lot more of the ingredients than is written on the label. From personal experience, I doubt it. Westerners like to believe that Red Bull contains amphetamines, I doubt this too.

Edited June 12, 2005 by uhuh

[george]

It's reported that people have died when mixing it with alcohol. It's supposed to be an energy drink, not a mixer.

[uhuh]

now that's a good marketing myth

[george]

http://www.snopes.com/toxins/redbull.htm

[cobra]

I asked this question in a thread on Red Bull - I hope someone qualified can reply.

What are the medical effects of regularly drinking Red Bull?

The berry-flavored beverage is spiked with mysterious additives like taurine and glucuronolactone. And at $2 for an 8.3-ounce can, Red Bull's retail price is at least double what you'd pay for a 12-ounce can of Coke. But it does pack some energy. Red Bull, with 80 milligrams of caffeine, has more than double the dose found in the larger Coke serving, and it has 110 calories per serving versus Coke's 140.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In most of these, the main ingredient responsible for the perceived energy rush besides sugar and caffeine are B-Complex vitamins, primarily B12, and / or synthetic derivatives, in massive amount, (~> 300% of daily units ..),

The old MASH unit surgeons in Korean use to inject each other with B12 after a heavy night of drinking,

I have heard that these drinks could have an impact your liver in consumed in excess for long periods, so I guess moderation in all things ...

[soi lurker]

Red Bull can be dangerous if you are a serious athlete engaged in strenuous training and are somewhat dehydrated. If you slam one of these down and continue on in the sun without having additional water you can start bringing on symptoms of heat stress and maybe even heat stroke. Its probably not a good idea to use drinks like Red Bull when or before you are to engage in strenuous activity without adequate supply of water......

These drinks are promoted as an instant energy source, and thats fine as long as you are hydrated............

[MP5]

A few comments to add to the debate

Try looking at Brute Force from Thailand (Sua Tong) non carbonated. Rave reviewes on a beverage web site.

Remember Kratingdang ( Red Bull) was or is the the poor mans coffee and was designed for taxi drivers and construction workers. The original mix is to be debated chemical wise( Read between the lines) Fight on and stay awake!!

Lipo is made by a Japanese company and 2 other Thai companies dominate the market just look at Carabao Dang

Also don't forget the Austrian is the richest man in Austria not bad for 49% when only a few years ago he was selling toothpaste.

The troops who have been to Thailand buy boxes of it so much so some of our ships take it on board for sale in the ships canteen or vending machines.

It's not the Red Bull that kills you it's the 2 bottles of Vodka to wash it down. (JOKE)

7 February 2004

European court backs ban on Red Bull over health concerns

Health concerns over the Red Bull energy drink were fuelled yesterday after Europe's highest court upheld a French ban on the product.

The fizzy drink has been linked to several deaths and some experts have criticised its high levels of caffeine and other stimulants.

Safety fears

Ross Cooney, 18, was a healthy basketball player, but died in 2000 just hours after drinking Red Bull.

The student from Limerick, Ireland, died after sharing four cans of the drink with friends before a basketball game.

At his inquest, the coroner called officials from the Austrian-based company to give evidence about their product. They said that no adverse effects had been proven in connection with the drink.

The inquest jury later ruled that the teenager had died as a result of Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, but called for an inquiry into high-caffeine energy drinks.

Red Bull is Britain's best-selling energy drink, with 213 million cans consumed last year. It has been dubbed the "clubbers' drink", and is often mixed with vodka. The popular adverts claiming that Red Bull "gives you wings", have led to the brand being described as "the Porsche of soft drinks".

It contains caffeine, vitamins, and sugar which, the company claims, kick-starts the body's metabolism and keeps people alert. But France has refused to authorise its sale, along with other vitamin-fortified foods such as Danone yoghurt and Kellogg's cereals.

The European Commission (EC) challenged France's ban after manufacturers complained it was inhibiting imports.

In a ruling yesterday, the European Court of Justice upheld the main part of the EC challenge, ordering France to lift the ban unless it could prove the health risks. But the court said that the French government did have a right to ban Red Bull. The judges said that a study by the French Scientific Committee on Human Nutrition found that Red Bull contained

excessive caffeine. The committee also raised concerns about the drink's other ingredients - taurine, an amino acid the company claims can "kick-start" the metabolism - and glucuronolactone, a carbohydrate.

The EC's Scientific Committee on Food conducted a study last year, and found that while caffeine levels in energy drinks were safe, more studies were needed to assess the dangers of taurine and glucuronolactone. While other toxicology experts had concluded that the caffeine levels in Red Bull are safe, France had a right to ban the drink on the advice of its

own experts, the court said.

One can of Red Bull contains 80mg of caffeine - equivalent to one cup of coffee. Three years ago, Ross Cooney, 18, from Ireland, died after he shared four cans of Red Bull and played in a basketball match. An inquest into his death ruled that he died from Sudden Adult Death Syndrome.

Lyndel Costain, a dietician, said: "The problem with caffeine is that the effects can vary, so it is difficult to say what is a safe level. High levels of caffeine can be dangerous for people with high blood pressure or anxiety disorders. Not much is known about taurine and glucuronolactone, but high levels of them could affect the body."

Red Bull - which sells 1.6 billion cans worldwide - said yesterday that its product was safe.

A spokeswoman said: "Red Bull will continue to be sold in 100 countries worldwide." She added: "No authority in the world has ever discovered or proven an unhealthy effect in or from Red Bull." Only France and Denmark have banned the drink. Britain's Committee on Toxicity investigated Red Bull in 2001 and found that it was safe, but warned pregnant women against it because high caffeine intake has been linked to a risk of miscarriage.

An EU ruling which comes into force this year means that Red Bull and other energy drinks will have to carry "high caffeine content" warnings.

An urban myth that taurine was made from bull's semen has only added to its popularity

A look at a key feature of Red Bull's business

Some observers say that Red Bull's branding is revolutionary, calling it an 'anti-brand' strategy. The company faced additional problems in the UK where there was already an established drink that was specifically taken as a post-illness beverage. Generations of young Britons had drunk Lucozade as they recovered from colds or flu, so Red Bull had to promote its brand differently.

The firm avoided usual methods of marketing, relying more on what is called 'buzz marketing' or word-of-mouth. A brand image was created and cultivated which associated the drink with youth culture and extreme and adventure-related sports, such as motor sports, mountain biking, snowboarding and dance music. Red Bull's target consumer segment began to adopt nicknames for the product such as 'liquid cocaine' or 'speed in a can', thus spreading its 'left-field' appeal.

Red Bull associates its brand with youth culture and extreme and adventure-related sports - one example of this is its Driver Search programme. The aim of the competition is 'to find, test and support budding young American racing talent'.

Red Bull then worked to ensure that their brand was visible on the street:

Using pick-up trucks as mobile displays, painted blue and silver with a giant can of the drink mounted on top of the vehicle

Designed to be eye-catching, these devices were aimed at promoting the red bull brand as youthful and slightly 'off-the-wall'

Cans of the drink were also given out free to people on the street who had been identified as being in need of energy

Red Bull was given to club DJs, empty cans would also be left on tables in hot spots such as trendy bars, clubs and pubs

The company also set about promoting the Red Bull brand directly to Generation Y, the so-called 'millennials': people born after 1981 who were believed to be cynical of traditional marketing strategies. Part of this idea involved recruiting 'student brand managers' who would be used to promote Red Bull on university campuses. These students would be encouraged to throw parties (as if encouragement was needed!) at which cases of Red Bull would be distributed. The brand managers would then report back to the company, giving the firm a low cost form of market research data.

The use of this kind of marketing strategy has become known as 'viral' marketing. It is as if a company sees no need for traditional informative or persuasive communications, rather in Red Bull's case it used the youth 'underground' to spread the popularity of the drink. So the firm would rather restrict the drink's supply and not advertise it, expecting that growing numbers of target consumers 'catch the bug' and its reputation spreads. Red Bull was a spectacularly successful example of the strategy working even though as we see later, its branding was aided by state intervention in countries like France and Denmark.

By 2004, the worldwide energy drinks market was worth an estimated £1.6 billion; Red Bull had achieved a clear market leading position, with a 70% market share. The lure of fast-growing profits in this market brought many competitors into the functional foods sector, where health and energy drinks have seen sales double every year since their introduction. Many competitors have tried to employ similar marketing strategies and tactics in order to grab sales from the market leader. Not all have been successful, of course.

When a firm tried to launch its own energy drink in 2002, it tried to target 16-24 year olds with a poster campaign featuring barely clothed young people exhibiting wounds to their bodies. As the drink was called 'Shark', the relevance of the injuries seemed clear. However, following complaints, the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) banned the posters, as the campaign appeared to endorse sexual violence. More on this decision can be found on the ASA Web site.

The problem that Red Bull now faces is how to build on its incredible sales growth, as it has become a mature brand within a saturated market. Among the challenges that Red Bull faces, the following are some of the most serious:

The loss of its original consumer base, as the 'millennials' become working adults. How should the firm attract a new group of 16 year old consumers?

Health concerns that have emerged in several countries over problems associated with high intake of caffeine. Red Bull was banned in France and Denmark following the publication of these concerns. It is classified as a medicine in Norway and until recently could only be bought in pharmacies in Japan. As the health and energy soft drinks market has reached maturity, Red Bull is concerned that it is unable to target mass consumption in these countries.

Being over-reliant on a single brand. Until 2003, the company only produced one version of Red Bull. A sugar-free version was introduced in that year.

The mature market for energy drinks has attracted some of the global firms, such as Coca Cola, Pepsi as well as Asda/Wal-Mart, with their own brands seeking to gain a competitive advantage over the market leader.

Red Bull has been approved for sale in Canada despite health concerns in Europe.

Seeing Red

Energy drink that's all the rage may pack more of a punch than is safe

If booze is the poor man's opium, then what are we to make of Red Bull, the potent energy drink that's become a party favourite mixed with alcohol? At least two European countries have banned it, citing "dangers to public health." Its connection when mixed with alcohol to several deaths in Sweden – Red Bull and vodka is a world-renowned potable these days – remains unproven but nevertherless continues to raise more questions abroad.

Although Red Bull's label expressly warns against its consumption with alcohol, in the U.S. the company has sent undercover operatives into bars and filed suit against establishments that substitute other mixes when customers have ordered Red Bull.

"There's no reason why Red Bull energy drink should not be mixed with alcohol like any other drink as long as people don't underestimate that alcohol consumption might impair their mental and physical activities," writes Red Bull spokesperson Patrice Radden in an e-mail response to a list of questions sent the company. Red Bull declined to make a company rep available for a telephone interview.

The European Economic Community Scientific Committee on Foods has looked at anecdotal reports of side effects ranging from dizziness and muscle weakness to headache and hypoventilation in people who have shown up at hospitals after consuming the energy drink.

Radden writes that Red Bull is "not aware of such reports," pointing out that last year alone 1.6 billion cans and bottles of the product were consumed in 120 countries worldwide. "No one anywhere has ever shown any link between Red Bull energy drink and harmful effects."

The syrupy sludge was green-lighted for sale in Canada in June, thanks to changes – a loophole, critics say – to the Natural Health Products Regulations. Those changes allow a product to be sold if a company can present data to back up efficacy claims.

While some complementary and alternative health practitioners are pleased the rewritten regs will ensure the availability of botanical and homeopathic medicines and dietary supplements not previously available for patient treatment, there is a downside – specifically, the danger of mammoth corporations deploying considerable resources to generate whatever amount of "independent" research it takes to get their products on the shelves and into the guts of the masses.

Enter Red Bull, with $1.5 billion U.S. in annual sales and more than $330 million spent on advertising and promo in the last six years in the U.S. alone. The Austria-based powerhouse filed its application for approval for sale in Canada the day after the new regs were passed.

But contrary to popular thinking, the Bull was never banned in these parts, just "previously not approved for sale," says Nathalie Lalonde of Health Canada.

Red Bull claims, among other things, to improve "performance..., concentration and reaction..., vigilance (and) emotional status." The Red Bull Web site further recommends use "on long, sleep-inducing motorways, during intensive working days, prior to demanding athletic activities or before tests and exams."

All of this is good by Health Canada. According to Lalonde, "A product cannot be approved if we don't have enough data to substantiate its claims – any claims."

Red Bull's claims have led to legions of college and grade-school students pounding away before class and while cramming. The Web is full of bloggers attributing their meteoric rise in grades to use of the drink.

But while Health Canada's Lalonde refers to the new regulations as "an opening" for Red Bull and products of that ilk, others, like Eric Marsden, a naturopathic doctor and energy drink expert with the Ontario Association of Naturopathic Doctors, considers the changes a ready-made loophole.

Energy drinks can be marketed as beneficial for your health because they contain vitamins and minerals.

Marsden says they're pseudo-drugs – in fact, most of Red Bull's ingredients are synthetically produced by pharmaceutical companies – that have physiological effects on the body, but because of the labelling, or lack thereof, many people don't even think about the heightened effect of these torqued-up puppies.

Marsden says there "could be an understating of the potential risks of long-term ingestion of caffeine, taurine and glucuronolactone," all ingredients in Red Bull.

Both taurine, a semi-essential amino acid, and glucuronolactone, a sugar, occur naturally in the body.

Taurine shows up in meat, and massive meat-munchers take in about 400 mg per day. Red Bull contains a whopping 1,000 mg in each 250 ml tin.

Glucuronolactone is found in wine at a concentration of about 20 mg/L at most. Red Bull rides on 600 mg per 250 ml can. The problem is that there are no long-term studies on either substance. Marsden cautions, "A lot of naturally occurring things are hard on the body."

Too-high levels of caffeine and taurine were what Lalonde says held back initial approval of the product. The elevated levels of taurine and glucuronolactone are also why the product is not recommended for children or pregnant or lactating women.

Deaths in Sweden allegedly related to Red Bull-and-alcohol consumption led the European Economic Community Scientific Committee on Foods to consider the potential detrimental health effects of the product in both 1999 and 2003.

Toxicity studies on rodents whose water supply was laced with Red Bull, and on the "possibility" of interactions between taurine and alcohol, and caffeine and alcohol were also explored by the committee based on "anecdotal reports of acute adverse effects in young persons consuming energy drinks, usually together with alcohol and/or drugs used socially, such as ecstasy and amphetamines."

Red Bull's submission to the EEC committee states that "no adverse health effects attributable to taurine have been reported in more than 30 clinical investigations reported over a period of 30 years."

As in 1999, the committee found in 2003 that "there is insufficient information on which to set an upper safe level for daily intake" for both glucuronolactone and taurine.

France and Denmark, which have pre-market testing procedures in place, have banned Red Bull outright.

The European Commission of the EEC challenged the ban on energy drinks on the basis of "failure of a member state to fulfill obligations."

But the right of both France and Denmark to ban them was upheld earlier this year by European courts, which found that "the Commission has not adduced evidence sufficient to call into question (the) authorities' analysis as regards the dangers those drinks pose to public health."

However, Italy was unable to defend its ban on energy drinks containing more than 125 mg/L of caffeine (Red Bull has 320 mg/L). The courts ruled that its prohibition was instituted "without showing that that limit is necessary and proportionate to the protection of public health."

Although the company says it advises against mixing Red Bull with booze, it has filed suit against bars in the U.S. "passing off," i.e., substituting another product for Red Bull as a mix.

South of the border, Red Bull is considered a dietary supplement. Under the U.S. Dietary Supplement Health And Education Act, energy drink products "do not need Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval before they are marketed," nor are they required to provide the "evidence (they rely) on to substantiate safety or effectiveness."

Last month, however, the FDA announced major new initiatives on dietary supplements to improve the "transparency, predictability and consistency of (the FDA's) scientific evaluations and regulatory actions." Ikhlas Khan, assistant director of the National Center for Natural Products Research, can see the energy drink stink from both sides. Says Khan, "As much as we like to blame the companies, consumers see everything as a wonder drug.There's no 'magic drink,' and that's the bottom line."

[ayakiawe]

In other words red bull is a bunch of ficking trash!

Got it?

[camerata]

The inquest jury later ruled that the teenager had died as a result of Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, but called for an inquiry into high-caffeine energy drinks.

Sudden Adult Death Syndrome?

Whatever... a lot of caffeine over a long period of time is not good for you. It can contribute to Unstable Bladder and other weird ailments that people get later in life.

[MP5]

The inquest jury later ruled that the teenager had died as a result of Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, but called for an inquiry into high-caffeine energy drinks.

Sudden Adult Death Syndrome?

Whatever... a lot of caffeine over a long period of time is not good for you. It can contribute to Unstable Bladder and other weird ailments that people get later in life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

SADS

Each week a number of healthy young people die without any apparent reason. Some are playing football, some are asleep in their beds and one, a 21 year old student. Name removed for obvious reasons, was in the middle of a phone call to her boyfriend; her parents found her curled up in bed, the phone by her side. These youths hadn’t been the victim of some supernatural force or strange crime, but a rarely mentioned medical phenomenon: Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, or Sads.

Usually affecting people under thirty years old, Sads has no obvious symptoms and strikes people of any lifestyle, whether you’re fighting fit or at one with a sofa; numerous comparisons have been made with cot death. Medical science isn’t wholly baffled however, and Sads research suggests that the victims suffered from a tiny heart irregularity that escapes normal detection. The problem remains dormant in the sufferers until a random event, normally some form of physical or emotional stress, triggers a swift death.

Numbers vary, but as many a thousand people a year die from Sads in the UK alone.

I think if there was a real problem with Red Bull or its competitors the FDA would be having a field day and the lawyers too.

I personally like M150 or Lipo i think it's a great pick me up. Great before a few beers a couple of years ago and also worked wonders for the hangover.

Each to there own. Everything's bad for you these days

Take a course of prozac and call me in me in a months time

Cheers! Or a course of your prefered beverage with your valium ( That's a joke. No offence meant here just jibing)

NO BULL

Edited June 13, 2005 by MP5

[MP5]

In other words red bull is a bunch of ficking trash!

Got it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Be careful here Thailands law is based on the written context and that includes the electronic media.

I think Red Bull have more money than you and derogatory comments not substantiated can result in a court appearance.

Defamation.

Red Bull or Krating Dang is approved by the FDA in Thailand and is a huge export earner.

Just out of interest do you drink canned coffee, or any energy drink like Lucozade or Gatorade let alone the the Thai bottled energy drinks?

No offence here I'm just interested as to why the sudden ficking trash comment.

Thai's have been drinking it since the 50's.

It does say in Thai on the bottle only consume 2 bottles per day and not to be consumed if pregnant.

Interesting sensible thread. We might learn something

Cheers again

Edited June 13, 2005 by MP5

[custard]

Of course everything can be dangerous if overdosed.

[meadish_sweetball]

Personally, and without any medical qualifications whatsoever, I would advice against drinking it every day, and only drink one bottle at a time.

Also note that the Red Bull sold in Thailand is not the same as is sold in Europe. The Thai Red Bull is a non-fizzy drink whereas the European variety is carbonated. I would guess the levels of the different ingredients are different as well - my hunch is Thai Red Bull is stronger, but I don't know for sure. Easy to check though. Anyone with a European Red Bull can posts the list of ingredients here, and I can get a Thai one to compare.

Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, but called for an inquiry into high-caffeine energy drinks.

Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, also known as WDHTSIWHHBLCASDFPLHSWDLLTINWA*.

*We Don't Have The Slightest Idea What Hit Him, But Let's Create A Syndrome Designation For People Like Him So We Don't Look Like The Ignorant Nincompoops We Are.

[MP5]

Personally, and without any medical qualifications whatsoever, I would advice against drinking it every day, and only drink one bottle at a time.

Also note that the Red Bull sold in Thailand is not the same as is sold in Europe. The Thai Red Bull is a non-fizzy drink whereas the European variety is carbonated. I would guess the levels of the different ingredients are different as well - my hunch is Thai Red Bull is stronger, but I don't know for sure. Easy to check though. Anyone with a European Red Bull can posts the list of ingredients here, and I can get a Thai one to compare.

Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, but called for an inquiry into high-caffeine energy drinks.

Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, also known as WDHTSIWHHBLCASDFPLHSWDLLTINWA*.

*We Don't Have The Slightest Idea What Hit Him, But Let's Create A Syndrome Designation For People Like Him So We Don't Look Like The Ignorant Nincompoops We Are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Emergency room director is impressed Very Clever

and yes I think you will find the Thai version is stronger they are allowed more caffeine. Let me know if I can post a web site here it will give you the full rundown

meadish-sweetball. Is that allowed?

[johnh101]

I once had 2 Vodka / Red Bulls on the advice of a friend as a Hangover pick me up. About 20 minutes later I thought I was dieing. Hyperventalating like a drowning fish. Needless to say I have never had it since.

[h90]

in my opinion the thai version is not as strong as the austrian one, but maybe I am wrong.

I think the thai version does not contain the vitamins, which are in the Austrian one.

I usually drink 3 to 8 of the bigger bottles per day, my wife maybe 2-5 bottles since 2 years, most of the time after half a liter coffee and still now I am alive, so it can not be very dangerous.

but I never mix it with alc (I have very bad experience a long time ago) and never on the evening (because than I can not sleep).

and I usually drink really a lot of water and fruit juice every day (3-5 liter every day (typically: 0.5 liter coffee, 1-1.5 liter tea, 1-2 liter orange juice, 0.75-1 liter soda, 3x0.66=2 liter heineken bier), so dehydration should not be a problem.

h90

Personally, and without any medical qualifications whatsoever, I would advice against drinking it every day, and only drink one bottle at a time.

Also note that the Red Bull sold in Thailand is not the same as is sold in Europe. The Thai Red Bull is a non-fizzy drink whereas the European variety is carbonated. I would guess the levels of the different ingredients are different as well - my hunch is Thai Red Bull is stronger, but I don't know for sure. Easy to check though. Anyone with a European Red Bull can posts the list of ingredients here, and I can get a Thai one to compare.

Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, but called for an inquiry into high-caffeine energy drinks.

Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, also known as WDHTSIWHHBLCASDFPLHSWDLLTINWA*.

*We Don't Have The Slightest Idea What Hit Him, But Let's Create A Syndrome Designation For People Like Him So We Don't Look Like The Ignorant Nincompoops We Are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[croftrobin]

The Thai version contains only about half of the caffeine content compared to the European version.

Thailand is strict as to the caffeine content of soft drinks be it red bull (or variants) and coffee, coke etc.

[camerata]

Each to there own. Everything's bad for you these days

Take a course of prozac and call me in me in a months time

Prozac? Wouldn't take it if it was the last drug on Earth. I don't know why it's the drug of first choice for clinical depression in Thailand.

Cheers! Or a course of your prefered beverage with your valium ( That's a joke. No offence meant here just jibing)

Valium, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter...

[chownah]

Each to there own. Everything's bad for you these days

Take a course of prozac and call me in me in a months time

Prozac? Wouldn't take it if it was the last drug on Earth. I don't know why it's the drug of first choice for clinical depression in Thailand.

Cheers! Or a course of your prefered beverage with your valium ( That's a joke. No offence meant here just jibing)

Valium, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you speaking about prozac from experience?

[camerata]

Are you speaking about prozac from experience?

Yes. The experience of friends who couldn't sleep and couldn't eat while taking it. Not to mention feeling edgy all the time. Zoloft seems to be better.

[MP5]

Cans

Each 250 ml can of Red Bull contains the following:

Medicinal ingredients:

Ingredient Amount

Taurine

An amino acid, taurine is important in several metabolic processes of the body. Also known as 2-aminoethanesulfonic acid. Taurine functions in electrically active tissues such as the brain and heart to help stabilize cell membranes. It also has functions in the gallbladder, eyes, and blood vessels and may have some antioxidant and detoxifying properties. 1000 mg

Glucuronolactone

A naturally occurring substance manufactured by the human body. Like taurine, glucuronolactone is supposed to detoxify the body. Little research has been done on the effects, and the only relevant studies have been conducted on animals so the risk to humans cannot be adequately assessed. Glucuronolactone has received some notoriety due to rumours that it was a Vietnam War era drug manufactured by the American government and led to several brain tumour deaths at the time. These rumours are not based on documented facts. 600 mg

Caffeine

An alkaloid found naturally in such foods as coffee beans, tea, kola nuts, Yerba maté, guarana, and (in small amounts) cacao beans. 80 mg

Niacin (niacinamide)

Also known as nicotinic acid or vitamin B3, niacin is a water-soluble vitamin whose derivatives such as NADH play essential roles in energy metabolism in the living cell. Severe lack of niacin causes the deficiency disease pellagra, whereas a mild deficiency slows down the metabolism, which in turn decreases cold tolerance and is a potential contributing factor towards obesity. 18 mg

Pantothenic acid (calcium d-pantothenate)

An antioxidant, water-soluble vitamin needed to break down carbohydrates, proteins, and fats. It is found in whole grain cereals, legumes, eggs, meat and other foods. 6 mg

Vitamin B6 (pyridoxide HCI)

A water-soluble vitamin that exists in three major chemical forms: pyridoxine, pyridoxal, and pyridoxamine. Vitamin B6 performs a wide variety of functions in your body – for example, protein and red blood cell metabolism. The nervous and immune systems also require vitamin B6 to function efficiently and it is also needed for the conversion of tryptophan (an amino acid) to niacin (see above). 2 mg

Riboflavin

Also known as vitamin B2, riboflavin is an easily absorbed, water-soluble micronutrient with a key role in maintaining human health. Like the other B vitamins, it supports energy production by aiding in the metabolizing of fats, carbohydrates, and proteins and can be found in milk, cheese, leafy green vegetables, liver, yeast, almonds and mature soybeans. 1.65 mg

Vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamine)

Helps maintain healthy nerve cells and red blood cells, and needed for the production of DNA, the genetic material in all cells. Deficiency of vitamin B12 is the cause of several forms of anaemia. Also called 'cobalamin' because it contains the metal cobalt. 1 mcg

(Sources: Department of Chemistry, University of Oxford, Journal of Chromatographic Science, Journal of Biochemistry, Wikipedia)

Non-medicinal ingredients:

Carbonated water

Sucrose

Glucose

Citric acid

Inositol

Flavours

Caramel

Thailand's Bottles Note 150 Mls

The Original Energy Drink

35 years ago, Krating Daeng (The Original Red Bull) was originally created as an energy-boosting beverage for Muay Thai Fighters (Kick Boxers) and the late night shift workers of Thailand. Used with great success, word of Krating Daeng's performance-boosting effectiveness spread quickly to the mass population and a new niche in the beverage industry was created - The Energy Drink.

The Beverage

Krating Daeng (The Original Red Bull) is a great tasting, liquid vitamin supplement that combines Vitamin B and three pharmaceutical grade metabolic activators: the natural amino-acid Taurine, the natural metabolite Glucuronolactone and stimulating Caffeine. Its core flavour is the same authentic original formula that is now also being used by its counterparts. Being non-carbonated, Krating Daeng presents a smoother and much sweeter taste unmatched by any other energy drink in the world.

- Smooth Taste

- No Carbonation

- Improves Performance

- Improves Concentration

- Improves Endurance

Taurine, Caffeine, Glucuronolactone, Vitamin B6, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Water, Sugar

Taurine - Amino acids help to build protein and cleanse the body of harmful substances. Taurine is an amino acid that occurs naturally in the body. The body can lose small amounts of taurine in times of stress and high physical activity. People may use energy drinks to try to replace or build up their body's level of taurine.

Glucuronolactone - Glucuronolactone also occurs naturally in the body and is believed to be helpful in ridding the body of harmful substances and providing an instant energy boost. It is a natural metabolite and carbohydrate formed when glucose breaks down.

Caffeine - Caffeine is a stimulant which acts on the central nervous system to speed up the messages to and from the brain so that the person feels more aware and active.

Order of ingredients does not relate to concentration levels.

Note same amount of caffeine in the small bottles versus the 250ml cans

Thai FDA for caffeine in energy drink bottles. So it's less in the cans per volume. If that's the correct wat of explaining it.

[meadish_sweetball]

I have a 100 ml bottle of Krathing Daeng Theoplex-L in front of me.

This is an exact copy of the ingredient list although the spelling mistakes are mine, since the list is transcribed from Thai. I have multiplied with 2.5 in parantheses for easier comparison with the European 250 ml cans.

Sucrose 16 gram (x 2.5 = 40)

Taurine 800 milligram (x 2.5 = 2000)

Caffeine 0.05 gram (x 2.5 = 1.25)

Innocitol 20 milligram (x 2.5 = 50)

Vitamin B3 20 milligram (x 2.5 = 50)

Dexpanthenol 5 milligram (x 2.5 = 12.5)

Vitamin B6 3 milligram (x 2.5 = 7.5)

Citric Acid 0.66 gram (x 2.5 = 1.65)

From this, and provided the statistics MP5 posted are all correct, we find:

There is twice as much taurine in Thai Red Bull as in European Red Bull.

(Please note that I am calculating per volume here. If you want to compare a bottle of Thai Red Bull with a can of European Red Bull despite their volumes being different, use the figures in the first column.)

Glucurunolactone is not listed in the Thai list of ingredients.

There is more caffeine in Thai Red Bull per volume - 125 mg as opposed to 80 in the European variety. But from this it also follows naturally that if you have one 100 ml bottle of Thai Red Bull, you will get less caffeine than if you drink a European can.

Niacin is not listed in the Thai list of ingredients.

Pantothenic Acid is not listed either, unless it is the same thing as the 'Dexpanthenol' in the Thai list. If so, 250 ml of Thai Red Bull contains more than twice as much as 250 ml of European Red Bull.

Vitamin B6 - 250 ml of Thai Red Bull contains 6 mg, whereas European contains 2 mg.

Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) is not listed for Thai Red Bull.

Vitamin B12 is not listed for Thai Red Bull.