Thaksin's Vendetta Is Wrecking The Country

[seahorse]

Do people still actually believe that this is only about Thaksin?

I will be amazed if people still do not see the bigger picture here.

So what is the "bigger picture"?

Thailand is more democratic than it's neighbours. It's not a paradise, but all these Red arguments are really over the top.

Democracy does not mean to possess the right to demolish roads, public places or block roads. I think, this people have to understand.

Lesson not learned yet.

China?

[OzMick]

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Thai mom: 'I want to die' for Red Shirt cause

Bangkok, Thailand (CNN) -- She calls herself "Aim." She is 43 years old and has two children, one a teenager, the other seven years old. She has a smile on her face even though she is sitting outside in air so thick with humidity and heat that it's hard to breath.

This woman is not prepared to die for the cause, she states that she wants to die for the cause. Why? She covers her face. Why would she have a problem being recognised if she is hoping for death? She is also quite thin. Is it totally impossible that she may have a terminal illness?

Old people are refusing to leave the rally site. why have they suddenly acquired a passion for democracy at this late stage of life?

A man holds a child up above a tyre barricade in full view of armed soldiers but takes care to keep himself concealed. Why would he do that?

One explanation fits all of the above scenarios. Thaksin has promised to pay B200,000 to anyone reds killed at the rally, and there are also handouts from the govt and royal family, with a little luck. Not that much money to an expat, but for a rural thai family........... a terminally ill mother, old people embarrassed by being a financial drag on their families, and the odd greedy b@$tard is all it takes.

[OzMick]

sorry -connection problems

Edited May 18, 2010 by OzMick

[MAJIC]

Do people still actually believe that this is only about Thaksin?

I will be amazed if people still do not see the bigger picture here.

Would you please spell it out for us Tony?

no, I suggest you read things other than the Nation and the inane ramblings of certain posters on here, broaden your horizons and the truth will out.

No need to be amazed, the truth has already come out,its just that certain people will never accept it

[citizen33]

BBC World Service radio broadcast an interesting interview with Steven Young today. People will remember that he is no friend of Thaksin, but his analysis is that the former PM's influence is now very limited. Young said that Thaksin has played all his cards and lost. He believes the redshirts are now a fragmented organisation but that a dark and violent group may be poised to take control. According to Young the background is that sections of the Thai elite are positioning themselves to take advantage when a sad but inevitable event occurs. He didn't say precisely who this group are but the implication seemed to be that they are a faction within the military (perhaps I inferred too much). I don't agree with Young but do listen to his views.

Edited May 18, 2010 by citizen33

[WarpSpeed]

Do people still actually believe that this is only about Thaksin?

I will be amazed if people still do not see the bigger picture here.

So what is the "bigger picture"?

Thailand is more democratic than it's neighbours. It's not a paradise, but all these Red arguments are really over the top.

Democracy does not mean to possess the right to demolish roads, public places or block roads. I think, this people have to understand.

Lesson not learned yet.

China?

At least they drive on the CORRECT side of the road and have the fastest growing economy to their favor..

[roykeanz]

I have been seeing this coming a LONG time.

It was never

'will Thaksin go for revenge big time?'

but was always

'WHEN will Thaksin go for broke with revenge or a power grab big time.'

Ever since his badly done attempt to keep his Temp PM chair in mid 2006,

with a ginned up S.O.E. or Martial Law stemming from that very badly done

'attempted assassination' I realized the guy has no limits or scruples.

I wasn't surprised he was removed from the scene, and only a little at the soft reaction to it,

but that always brought the worry about how and when he would seek to avenge his lost face.

When people post it's not about Thaksin, I can only surmise:

a ) they are on his payroll, spreading the PR message.

b ) they really don't understand the situation well.

c ) they are so lost in their ideological world that LOGIC and observation

are swamped out by philosophical desire.

He did build a huge patronage network in the old school style over 20 years or so,

and then used it for more modern style rapacious greed. But also developed the

untapped potential of Issan, by using a modern business organizational model

coupled with old school Communist cadre indoctrination techniques.

Machiavelli would be proud; well actually Ceaser Borgia, whom Machiavelli was commenting on.

Thaksin took policy corruption to levels never seen, even in Thailand.

And then a step too far with Temasek.

Money = Power = Face and this all feeds a severely damaged ego.

His whole life was nouveau-riche striving for Hi So acceptance. Power

with money was the sole route there... problem was he completely forgot

that "having class" is more important than being accepted in first class.

He married up, way up, and was always pushed to fit into a world that

he was not prepared to enter, and that rejected him no matter how much cash he had.

After his return from self imposed exile, but before the 2nd self imposed exile,

he went to Anupong's mother's funeral, uninvited, and faced off with Prem and Anupong.

The pictures made clear they though he was in exceedingly poor taste to go there.

and made no efforts to hide this, a very un-thai action, but Thaksin did a very un-thai act

to try and reinstall himself at 'Prems level' at Anupong's time of mourning.

To this day Prem has pictures of the incident on his website... quite tellingly.

So rather than the public forgiveness he sought Thaksin got dissed big time.

Som nom na. Except this fed kerosene onto Thaksin's inflamed damaged ego.

Most people deal with others as if they are typically rational, not sometimes or often

slightly ting tong. Mental stability is not solely judged whether you are incoherent when speaking.

This guy is damaged goods, and shows instability under stress, letting him regain control

of the country through proxies is a non-starter, no matter what it takes to get that dirty job done.

Very well put! ... And spot on!!!

[roykeanz]

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Thai mom: 'I want to die' for Red Shirt cause

Bangkok, Thailand (CNN) -- She calls herself "Aim." She is 43 years old and has two children, one a teenager, the other seven years old. She has a smile on her face even though she is sitting outside in air so thick with humidity and heat that it's hard to breath.

This woman is not prepared to die for the cause, she states that she wants to die for the cause. Why? She covers her face. Why would she have a problem being recognised if she is hoping for death? She is also quite thin. Is it totally impossible that she may have a terminal illness?

Old people are refusing to leave the rally site. why have they suddenly acquired a passion for democracy at this late stage of life?

A man holds a child up above a tyre barricade in full view of armed soldiers but takes care to keep himself concealed. Why would he do that?

One explanation fits all of the above scenarios. Thaksin has promised to pay B200,000 to anyone reds killed at the rally, and there are also handouts from the govt and royal family, with a little luck. Not that much money to an expat, but for a rural thai family........... a terminally ill mother, old people embarrassed by being a financial drag on their families, and the odd greedy b@$tard is all it takes.

I saw that whackjob chick on CNN! Man, these Red lunatics sure know how to parent!! 

As with everything pertaining to the 'Red' sham (from the root cause of this terrorism, to the so-called "leaders", to the paid violent mercenaries, to the sheeple ..... yada yada yada), you're right ... it's all about the 'Benjamins', baby!!  That, and only that!!

In respect to the type of idiots you mention, aside from Thaksin's 'death pay-off' (200-250k), they'll get some moolah (a lesser sum) even if they're just injured!

[jitenshaman]

.. Try pulling any of the crap these zombies have in any other major city in the world and see how quickly the respective governments would break out the big guns. The problem with Thailand is they waited too long. This shi*t would have been mopped up in 72 hours in the USA, and the death toll would have been directly related to how many idiots chose to stick around after the authorities had given the order to disburse or face the consequences.

Hi Yeeoww.....

Your statement about the US is a complete fabrication.

You cannot name one respected instance in US history where protester's who were peacefully assembled were subject to being shot at and murdered by the US government. Even in the most emotional protests against the US war in Vietnam, when 100s of thousands came to Washington DC and camped out on the mall, there was virtually no violence.

The problem is Thailand is just the opposite. The people cannot assemble peacefully without being murdered. They cannot voice their opinion without their TV stations being shut down. They cannot speak out against social injustice without fear of arrest. They cannot even peacefully assemble on public fields without fear of arrest.

Anyone who says the US would "crack down" on something like this is completely wrong. In the US, citizens have a birth right to assemble peacefully. They can have their own TV stations, new papers, web sites, full freedom to assemble and to protest and to express themselves. In Thailand, the citizens to not have these basic rights, especially the rural poor.

When read these threads and post, I am truly amazed at misinformation and lies posted here. In the US, what is happening in Thailand would never happen because in the US, when you cast your vote at the polls, the military does not kick out the winner just because the elite do not agree with the results. In the US, there is a working form of democracy and the bulk of the power is with the people. Not in Thailand. The power is in guns and murder of people who protest. You can easily witness this in the streets of Bangkok today.

I challenge you to name one lawful event in US history where protesters were murdered in the streets. There are none.

Kent State...ok, murdered on campus not in the street.

People in the US have the right to protest, as long as they do not incite hate and are peaceful. In the LA riots, the National Guard was called in because this was not a proper exercising of any kind of democratic right, it was looting and anarchy plain and simple (and not too many people took to the streets demonstrating afterwords to say that this was all in the bigger picture due to racial profiling and discrimination). During the Civil Right's movement, when James Meredith won a Supreme Court decision to be able to attend a white university, protesters against him turned violent as he was escorted on campus. The marshalls guarding him opened fire, killing several people.

In the US, if a group of people try to storm the White House or take over an airport in the name of any kind of protest movement, they will be removed swiftly, and by force if necessary. If they remain on a lawn, obtain a permit to demonstrate, and are peaceful, then they are completely within their rights to protest and they will not be fired on by troops or police. If you have a good look around Rajaprop, Sala Daeng, Bon Kai, and elsewhere right now, you will not see a lot of people sitting on the ground with placards saying we want democracy. You also dont see 98% of Isaan deciding to paralyze the country through work stoppages, strikes, or boycotts. No, when my friends and I look out the window in Bangkok right now, we see mob rule and a group of thugs destroying the city. Military violence is despicable, but if you are choosing to walk down a street where people are heaving burning tires and molotov cocktails at men with rifles, isn't it perhaps time to make some different decisions about standing out in that street? We dont seem to be reading that much about non Red/yellow people getting taken out..most of them are doing the sensible thing and staying indoors or moving to friends' homes...no, the ones we are reading about are the innocent ones who are out standing next to their friends shooting off slingshots...if you go into a bar, find the biggest guy in there, and proceed to tell him that he is scum of the earth, what do you think the chances of your getting badly hurt are? Yeah, he might be violating a few laws, rights, and being excessive in taking you apart, but dont you think it might be a bit more prudent not to go up to him to begin with?

[timekeeper]

Right Vindie... Try pulling any of the crap these zombies have in any other major city in the world and see how quickly the respective governments would break out the big guns. The problem with Thailand is they waited too long. This shi*t would have been mopped up in 72 hours in the USA, and the death toll would have been directly related to how many idiots chose to stick around after the authorities had given the order to disburse or face the consequences.

Hi Yeeoww.....

Your statement about the US is a complete fabrication.

You cannot name one respected instance in US history where protester's who were peacefully assembled were subject to being shot at and murdered by the US government. Even in the most emotional protests against the US war in Vietnam, when 100s of thousands came to Washington DC and camped out on the mall, there was virtually no violence.

The problem is Thailand is just the opposite. The people cannot assemble peacefully without being murdered. They cannot voice their opinion without their TV stations being shut down. They cannot speak out against social injustice without fear of arrest. They cannot even peacefully assemble on public fields without fear of arrest.

Anyone who says the US would "crack down" on something like this is completely wrong. In the US, citizens have a birth right to assemble peacefully. They can have their own TV stations, new papers, web sites, full freedom to assemble and to protest and to express themselves. In Thailand, the citizens to not have these basic rights, especially the rural poor.

When read these threads and post, I am truly amazed at misinformation and lies posted here. In the US, what is happening in Thailand would never happen because in the US, when you cast your vote at the polls, the military does not kick out the winner just because the elite do not agree with the results. In the US, there is a working form of democracy and the bulk of the power is with the people. Not in Thailand. The power is in guns and murder of people who protest. You can easily witness this in the streets of Bangkok today.

I challenge you to name one lawful event in US history where protesters were murdered in the streets. There are none.

have a sort threw this lot-see what you can find:

* Robert Charles Riot in New Orleans, LA, 1900

* Anti-Semitic Riot or Jacob Joseph Riot in New York City, 1902

* Bloomington Race Riot, IN, 1903

* Atlanta Race Riot, 1906

* Springfield Race Right, IL, 1908

* East St. Louis Riot, 1917

* Houston Race Riot, 1917

* May Day Riot in Cleveland, 1919

* Red Summer of 1919

* Tulsa Race Riot, 1921

* Anti-Filipino Riots, California, 1927-1930

* Chicago Rent Strike Riot, 1931

* American Nazi Riot, New York City, 1934

* Harlem Race Riot, 1935

* Zoot Suit Riots, Los Angeles, 1943

* Airport Homes Race Riots, Chicago, 1946

* Peekskill Riot or the Paul Robeson Riot, NY 1949

* Cicero Riot, Cicero, IL, 1951

* El Cajon Boulevard Riot or the Drag Strip Riot, San Diego, CA, 1960

* HUAC Riot, San Francisco, CA, 1960

* Ole Miss Integration Riot, 1962

* Cambridge Race Riot, MD, 1963

* Philadelphia Race Riot, 1964

* Rochester Race Riot, 1964

* Harlem Race Riot, 1964

* New Jersey Race Riots, 1964

* Watts Riots, Los Angeles, 1965

* Division Street Riot, Chicago, 1966

* Compton's Cafeteria Riot, San Francisco, 1966

* H. Rap Brown Riot, Cambridge, MD, 1967

* Detroit Race Riot, 1967

* North Minneapolis Race Riot, 1967

* Tampa Race Riots, 1967

* Newark and Plainfield Race Riots, 1967

* Memphis Race Riot, 1967

* Durham Race Riot, NC, 1967

* Dow Riots, Madison, WI, 1967

* Over 100 Race Riots across the country after the assassination of the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in 1968

* Stonewall Riot, New York City, 1969

* Chicano Moratorium Riot, Los Angeles, 1970

* Hard Hat Riot, New York City, 1970

* Attica Prison Riot, 1971

* Escambia High School Race Riot, Pensacola, FL, 1976

* New York City Blackout Riot, 1977

* White Night Riot, San Francisco, 1979

* New Mexico State Penitentiary Riot, 1980

* Aggieville Riots, Manhattan, KA, 1984 and 1986

* Tampa Race Riots, 1987

* Atlanta Prison Riots, 1987

* Tompkins Square Park Police Riot, New York City, 1988

* Guns N' Roses Riverport Riot, Maryland Heights, MO, 1991

* Crown Heights Race Riot, Brooklyn, 1991

* The LA Riots or the Rodney King Riots, 1992

* Chicago Bulls NBA Championship Riot, 1993

* St. Petersburg Race Riot, FL, 1996

* The Boulder Beer Riot, Boulder, CO, 1997

* Woodstock '99 Riot

* The WTO Riots, Seattle, WA, 1999

[Jingthing]

White Night Riot, San Francisco, 1979

Thanks for the memory. I was there!

Edited May 18, 2010 by Jingthing

[TPI]

Do people still actually believe that this is only about Thaksin?

I will be amazed if people still do not see the bigger picture here.

Would you please spell it out for us Tony?

It's amazing how so many 'educated' farangs are bent on blaming all that ails Thailand on an exiled ex-prime minister. Nobody is responsible for the army shooting civilians in Bangkok except the government. Illegal occupation of private and/or public property is not a good reason to shoot people. Neither is looting. The red shirt leaders may be selfish jerks dancing to Thaksin's tune, but it's NOT AN EXCUSE for the government to SHOOT PEOPLE. The government lies on the news everyday. So do the red shirts, but who should be the higher moral authority here? Most of you farangs come from western democracies... and most of you would support one political party over another. If you think the best solution to political impasse and or civil disobedience is to shoot those who disagree with you, then you should move to a place that supports that kind of thing (domestically) like Burma. The violence started when the army showed up... PERIOD. The rest of these arguments are pure political rhetoric, hearsay, and paranoia. Of course, if this continues, maybe you folks ARE in the right place.

Sorry Vindie, you've got it a little wrong...the army is just standing still and the red shirts are taking the battle to them...the army has said that they will shoot to kill anyone who attempts or actually does, shoot at them or put their lives in danger...killing someone in those circumstances is totally justified and if taken to court would be found not guilty in any country in the world, OK?

If you invade a persons home at night (after 9 PM)in any western country then the occupier has the legal right to shoot you DEAD if they feel threatened, OK?

Looters, like pirates, have been shot on sight in many countries around the world for many years...looters and pirates know this but are still prepared to take the chance!

If you don't believe me look at some of the videos of the "Watts Riots" in LA and the videos of New Orleans after Katrina, OK?

Sorry to burst your bubble

[TPI]

Right Vindie... Try pulling any of the crap these zombies have in any other major city in the world and see how quickly the respective governments would break out the big guns. The problem with Thailand is they waited too long. This shi*t would have been mopped up in 72 hours in the USA, and the death toll would have been directly related to how many idiots chose to stick around after the authorities had given the order to disburse or face the consequences.

Hi Yeeoww.....

Your statement about the US is a complete fabrication.

You cannot name one respected instance in US history where protester's who were peacefully assembled were subject to being shot at and murdered by the US government. Even in the most emotional protests against the US war in Vietnam, when 100s of thousands came to Washington DC and camped out on the mall, there was virtually no violence.

The problem is Thailand is just the opposite. The people cannot assemble peacefully without being murdered. They cannot voice their opinion without their TV stations being shut down. They cannot speak out against social injustice without fear of arrest. They cannot even peacefully assemble on public fields without fear of arrest.

Anyone who says the US would "crack down" on something like this is completely wrong. In the US, citizens have a birth right to assemble peacefully. They can have their own TV stations, new papers, web sites, full freedom to assemble and to protest and to express themselves. In Thailand, the citizens to not have these basic rights, especially the rural poor.

When read these threads and post, I am truly amazed at misinformation and lies posted here. In the US, what is happening in Thailand would never happen because in the US, when you cast your vote at the polls, the military does not kick out the winner just because the elite do not agree with the results. In the US, there is a working form of democracy and the bulk of the power is with the people. Not in Thailand. The power is in guns and murder of people who protest. You can easily witness this is the streets of Bangkok today.

Maaaaattttteeeeee! With reference to your first statement, Shall we try on "Kent State University" for starters? how about the "Branch Davidians" ? Even the Dept of Justice said they were "not happy" with the FBI and the ATF when they used imflamable gas on a group of people who, while they were making people nervous they (and I mean the group) hadn't broken any law and were basically minding their own business!

Sit down, take a couple of deep breaths, there don't you feel better?

[atyclb]

The Nation reported this morning that 1 red leader has over 100 mill recently put into his acc, plus that he has recently purchased 2 mansions and a few high worth vehicles. Surely the gov can use this to their advantage. Circulating on mass this information to the reds who would never see or dream of this amount surely would put his integrity into question. More importantly question his true motive.

You are 100% correct, or they would even aspire more to be like the red leaders. When the foundation and building blocks of an entire society are rooted in corruption, you always have those at the bottom, wanting to get to the top.

[TPI]

3. If you don't like the laws of Thailand then don't go to Thailand though you will be hard-pressed to find a civilized country that doesn't have S.O.E. and Marshall laws.

Name 1 "modern civilized democracy" where the government can remove all the rights of the citizen to assemble and cut off their right to speak and publish and then shoots them in the streets because they are in the streets.

I think you cannot name one.

The countries that come to mind are China and Burma and maybe Iran, Iraq, etc.

Modern democratic countries to not steal elections, prop up leaders and murder the opponents. It certainly does not happen in the US.

I suggest you read history from your seat in Dallas, LOL.

Name the last time military law was evoked in the US in the capital.... I think the answer is NEVER.

I believe that your only function on this blog is to act as a "stalking horse" for a senior red shirt...you keep making unsupported nonsensical statements and then demanding that others support their opinions when they disagree!

No one has to justify their beliefs or opinions if they state that it is their opinion or belief in their comment!

To demand support for any of the above is the sign of a student who didn't listen in the "clear thinking " class, go back to Uni, finish your course!

[Colabamumbai]

He is an a hole and has nothing to lose. Do you think that he really cares about the Thai people? If he did he would come back to Thailand and pay the price. It is him that has the blood on his hands, not the present prime minister.

[TPI]

BBC World Service radio broadcast an interesting interview with Steven Young today. People will remember that he is no friend of Thaksin, but his analysis is that the former PM's influence is now very limited. Young said that Thaksin has played all his cards and lost. He believes the redshirts are now a fragmented organisation but that a dark and violent group may be poised to take control. According to Young the background is that sections of the Thai elite are positioning themselves to take advantage when a sad but inevitable event occurs. He didn't say precisely who this group are but the implication seemed to be that they are a faction within the military (perhaps I inferred too much). I don't agree with Young but do listen to his views.

Whoda thunk it? It was right in front of our faces and everybody missed it...Steven Young must be a very switched on person...It doesn't matter if you agree or not, it has that certain "ring of truth".

Remember, keep your eyes open and your powder dry!

[RaiBerg]

I questions comes up to mind: doe anyone knows any international condemnation of the financial supporters of the red-shirts? What does Amnesty, the UN, the democracy loving NGOs etc to this financial sponsorship? I hear only Thai government bashing…. Or do I miss some info????

[HAL9000]

Who is so naive to believe that Thaksin's "vendetta" is ruining the country?

The rural poor are uneducated, but they are not stupid.

Among their leaders are many university educated intellectuals.

Unlike many modern nations, Thailand has ignored its poor.

The demonstrations are a consequence of that.

Their voice cannot be ignored forever.

[Crushdepth]

good comments from Amnesty pointing out the illegality of the military shootings, oddly enough I raised this earlier in this thread, unarmed people are being shot that pose no immediate threat, amnesty have no highlighted this also in their report, link in the Tuesday news thread.

Unarmed? Give it rest.

Tell me, what would an ordinary traffic cop do in your country if you threatened them with a weapon?

[rametindallas]

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Thai mom: 'I want to die' for Red Shirt cause

Bangkok, Thailand (CNN) -- She calls herself "Aim." She is 43 years old and has two children, one a teenager, the other seven years old. She has a smile on her face even though she is sitting outside in air so thick with humidity and heat that it's hard to breath.

This woman is not prepared to die for the cause, she states that she wants to die for the cause. Why? She covers her face. Why would she have a problem being recognised if she is hoping for death? She is also quite thin. Is it totally impossible that she may have a terminal illness?

Old people are refusing to leave the rally site. why have they suddenly acquired a passion for democracy at this late stage of life?

A man holds a child up above a tyre barricade in full view of armed soldiers but takes care to keep himself concealed. Why would he do that?

One explanation fits all of the above scenarios. Thaksin has promised to pay B200,000 to anyone reds killed at the rally, and there are also handouts from the govt and royal family, with a little luck. Not that much money to an expat, but for a rural thai family........... a terminally ill mother, old people embarrassed by being a financial drag on their families, and the odd greedy b@$tard is all it takes.

'Stockholm Syndrome' where the captive identifies with the captor like Patty Hearst robbing a bank with her kidnappers and carrying a machine. They have been listening to non-stop hate speech for a long time. They are brain-washed.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Coming back to the title: Vendetta is Sicilian or Corsican origin and is the result of the Social organisation by “extended families” or “feudal clans”or “mafias” as you want to name....

My observation of the Thai Administration shows a great analogy with this kind of organisation: politicians as soon as in power are “placing” their followers in key positions and we can see that promotions inside bodies like Army or Police is based on such a system.

So, the general interest is not the first priority, the first priority being to act in accordance with the orientation of the Clan. We are far from careers based on general interest, efficiency and capacities.

IMHO, a serious reform of the whole Thai administration looks as one important task of any future government.

High level executive should be promoted or sidelined based on objectives criteria, with technical procedures, appropriate training. The politician influence should be voided.

Vendetta is the visible result of frictions between Mafiosi factions....

Just a small story. In a european Airline, National Carrier, the recruitment of stewardess was a tricky point: nearly 50% of the applicants have strong recommendations from High level People, MPs, Senators, even PM....

At the end the result was not so good, so the Airline management decided to set up an internal technical Committee and all recommendations in the files of applicants systematically voided, and a negative point added in the file for using such pull.

Today, the Airline has solved the issue....

[Hugh Jarse]

The Nation reported this morning that 1 red leader has over 100 mill recently put into his acc, plus that he has recently purchased 2 mansions and a few high worth vehicles. Surely the gov can use this to their advantage. Circulating on mass this information to the reds who would never see or dream of this amount surely would put his integrity into question. More importantly question his true motive.

On Thai news tonight a report that 30 red shirts and backers as well as some companies have had their accounts frozen.Agree this should get more coverage by international mass media corps. The BBC(World) has been pathetic with their analysis on their coverage, particularly Rachel Harvey's weak and pudding-like despatches. CNN have also been pathetically inadequate in their coverage.

Thaksin is a malicious/savage egomaniac who I hope will one day be called to account for his actions.

[Oberkommando]

Interesting article in the SMH today.

[citizen33]

BBC World Service radio broadcast an interesting interview with Steven Young today. People will remember that he is no friend of Thaksin, but his analysis is that the former PM's influence is now very limited. Young said that Thaksin has played all his cards and lost. He believes the redshirts are now a fragmented organisation but that a dark and violent group may be poised to take control. According to Young the background is that sections of the Thai elite are positioning themselves to take advantage when a sad but inevitable event occurs. He didn't say precisely who this group are but the implication seemed to be that they are a faction within the military (perhaps I inferred too much). I don't agree with Young but do listen to his views.

Whoda thunk it? It was right in front of our faces and everybody missed it...Steven Young must be a very switched on person...It doesn't matter if you agree or not, it has that certain "ring of truth".

Remember, keep your eyes open and your powder dry!

My apologies if I didn't make myself clear - I suppose I assumed that people have more background knowledge than is the case. My point was that Prof. Steven Young, well known for discovering Ban Chiang and for his views on the malign influence of Thaksin, seems to be singing a different tune these days. Compare what he said on the BBC today with his old line:

http://uk.asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-p...not-for-me.html

I wasn't saying Young's new position is particularly original - and I did say I don't agree with his views - but I thought the direction of travel was interesting. If it does emerge that Thaksin's influence is on the wane, will others who dislike the reds identify a similar shadowy group lurking in the background? Incidentally though I disagree with Young, I respect his experience and knowledge of Thailand.

[Oberkommando]

The BBC and CNN have been very thorough. Thankfully highlighting the real problems behind the crisis and not jumping on the Thaksin obsessed bandwagon.

[Steely Dan]

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Thai mom: 'I want to die' for Red Shirt cause

Bangkok, Thailand (CNN) -- She calls herself "Aim." She is 43 years old and has two children, one a teenager, the other seven years old. She has a smile on her face even though she is sitting outside in air so thick with humidity and heat that it's hard to breath.

This woman is not prepared to die for the cause, she states that she wants to die for the cause. Why? She covers her face. Why would she have a problem being recognised if she is hoping for death? She is also quite thin. Is it totally impossible that she may have a terminal illness?

Old people are refusing to leave the rally site. why have they suddenly acquired a passion for democracy at this late stage of life?

A man holds a child up above a tyre barricade in full view of armed soldiers but takes care to keep himself concealed. Why would he do that?

One explanation fits all of the above scenarios. Thaksin has promised to pay B200,000 to anyone reds killed at the rally, and there are also handouts from the govt and royal family, with a little luck. Not that much money to an expat, but for a rural thai family........... a terminally ill mother, old people embarrassed by being a financial drag on their families, and the odd greedy b@$tard is all it takes.

'Stockholm Syndrome' where the captive identifies with the captor like Patty Hearst robbing a bank with her kidnappers and carrying a machine. They have been listening to non-stop hate speech for a long time. They are brain-washed.

Red protesters have booed off leaders' attempt to negotiate a ceasefire with govt. /via @tulsathit

Some protesters have even thrown things at stage when told that reds would end their part in violence. /via @tulsathit

A process hard to reverse, especially when they are counting on 100K per person.

[Netfan]

The BBC and CNN have been very thorough. Thankfully highlighting the real problems behind the crisis and not jumping on the Thaksin obsessed bandwagon.

I guess Seh Daeng was lying then when he said, a few days before his demise, "The protests will end when Thaksin says they are over".

[grayfield18]

good comments from Amnesty pointing out the illegality of the military shootings, oddly enough I raised this earlier in this thread, unarmed people are being shot that pose no immediate threat, amnesty have no highlighted this also in their report, link in the Tuesday news thread.

And where was your AI during Thaksin's extra judicial drug killings?

How about during the men in black snipers that are now coming to light with SD's assitant being grabbed.

Don't pat yourself on the back so soon Tony, there's more to the story than a bent AI report.

I have an interesting FACT for you (and those here on Thaksin's crackdown on drugs.) The UN wanted to get involved then, you recall? He said they are not his father, they have no authority. Now he is asking the UN for their help! What a sad puppy with his tail between his legs.

The poster who praises amnesty must love all of the mayhem here, they're the same brothers with the same cause to wreak havoc against the state (we know who Amnesty IS!)

As to why the protestors aren't coming out: they must leave their ID cards. then they threaten to avenge you later once you leave!

Amnesty for these people?!?!

Factually Amnesty International condemned the extra judicial killings by Thai authorities whilst Thaksin was the PM. They made quite a song and dance about it over here when he tried to take over Liverpool and subsequently brought it up again when he took over Man City. So if they are bent which one of their reports is true and which one is the lie ? Or are they both lies ??

Amnesty International are independent and condemn anyone including the UK USA China, Iran, Iraq to name but a few.

The fact that Thaksin's government did something to one group of people doesn't make it right for this Government to attack these people.

Some who come on this site would have been arguing (Judging by what the say on the drug news pages on here) that the killings were right as the dead were drug dealers etc. You cannot say that about the people being shot now.

All deaths are sad and i doubt anyone on either side truly gloats about it. Bandying words about this death or that death is not the way forward two wrongs don't make a right.

The whole of Thai society needs to step back and try to work some way forward. I am an outsider and do not presume to know the answer. It is a Country i love but it needs to sort from within.

I didn't feel much support for Abhisit but there are issues there with the manner in which he came to power. I have no problem with it being a government not elected as the others were ousted by an electoral court. However, it is what is behind that - the Army written constitution which causes problems. The truth is though that at some point the Country has to give up looking at the wrongs of the past and decide how to proceed for the future.

[Jerrytheyoung]

BBC World Service radio broadcast an interesting interview with Steven Young today. People will remember that he is no friend of Thaksin, but his analysis is that the former PM's influence is now very limited. Young said that Thaksin has played all his cards and lost. He believes the redshirts are now a fragmented organisation but that a dark and violent group may be poised to take control. According to Young the background is that sections of the Thai elite are positioning themselves to take advantage when a sad but inevitable event occurs. He didn't say precisely who this group are but the implication seemed to be that they are a faction within the military (perhaps I inferred too much). I don't agree with Young but do listen to his views.

Whoda thunk it? It was right in front of our faces and everybody missed it...Steven Young must be a very switched on person...It doesn't matter if you agree or not, it has that certain "ring of truth".

Remember, keep your eyes open and your powder dry!

My apologies if I didn't make myself clear - I suppose I assumed that people have more background knowledge than is the case. My point was that Prof. Steven Young, well known for discovering Ban Chiang and for his views on the malign influence of Thaksin, seems to be singing a different tune these days. Compare what he said on the BBC today with his old line:

http://uk.asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-p...not-for-me.html

I wasn't saying Young's new position is particularly original - and I did say I don't agree with his views - but I thought the direction of travel was interesting. If it does emerge that Thaksin's influence is on the wane, will others who dislike the reds identify a similar shadowy group lurking in the background? Incidentally though I disagree with Young, I respect his experience and knowledge of Thailand.

Not original except as you say the confirmation of Thaksin influence is vaning. On a less explicit way, Mandala is expressing similar opinion