Bangkok Will Rise Like A Phoenix

[Kunpan]

WE LOVE BANGKOK DAY!

Not only Thais but "farangs" love this city. It is our home. And when we all saw it being politically"interrupted" for two months, we tried to be tolerant. We acted civilized as one would in any DEMOCRACY. Not getting into a political debate here, but 99% of us would not approve of the damage the "thugs" did to damage OUR city. Not to sound sappy, or slurpy, or dramatic, it would be a good move if the city officials had "We Love Bangkok Day" where we would show up at Luphini park to show our support for a better, reconciled city . A gathering of all "Bangkokians" showing each other support would psychologically get us looking positive for BKK's future. Yes, though I am a "farang",this is where I work, this is where I live. I want to go out and help to rebuild, clean up the city... to feel that Bangkok has not been defeated by these barbarians that did damage to the city.

Understand your position, but pls try also to see things from a different angle.

First time, and I would say finally, Thailand has awaken and it has seen how divided is the society, Bangkok has finally noticed that there are also upcountry people with their own rights and interests, people who have always been left behind and looked down by the richer and more educated urban folks.

It was painful, but let's hope this will not just go down in history as an isolated episode, a bad dream, because if this mistake is done, the next awakening could be much worse...

Time to understand that Bangkok is not Thailand and Thailand is not only Bangkok.

Time for the politicians to understand that they cannot go to ask for the votes of the upcountry people during elections and then forget about them when they are back in their seats at the Parliament.

It's the 21st Century, there is no space for a society from the middle ages.

Well said, good to see someone knows what their talking about, Thailand is not just Bangkok!

[hyperlemon]

yep, bangkok will rise like a pheonix and the baht will drop like a stone to the £..... probably. how bad must the UK economy be to continue to loose ground to the baht....?

you get a lot for of baht for your pound, what are you whining about?!

47baht/£ isn't enouth!!! 2 years ago it was 65!

[phetaroi]

Good to see a Positive thinker!

I try to be not a "positive thinker" or a "negative thinker". I try to find the balance in the middle -- perhaps with a goal of being a "realistic, balanced thinker".

[difos57]

In my view this is far from over. The Red's will just regroup and wait for instructions from the T. camp Although I too wish for a peace and normality in this crazy but awesome country I fear the divisions are far to wide and with the loss of face it will take a long time to heal all of the rifts caused by the years of imbalance by the elite and the poor. As far as Buddha or buddhist goes Buddha left Thailand a long time ago

You might be right, but I think the Red leadership will have their hands full for a long time to come, with legal fights, the typical Thaksin "Fleeing the country to avoid prosecution" response, and the huge stigma of having burned down large areas in Bangkok. Their strength, really, was an illusion, bought and paid for by Thaksin. This was never a grassroots "Power to the people" campaign. If that was the case, they wouldn't have need to have been paid to attend.

I don't think there will be a regrouping for a while.

It is just going to be the continuing RED DEMOCRACY. Grenade attacks and violence on other politicians and other groups that don't have the same "ideals" as the reds.

This is not about rich and poor. It never has been. The leaders of the reds are all very rich. The village leaders in the red areas are all rich. The poor in non-red areas are not protesting. There was no uprising by the poor against the government when the army moved in. This government are doing as much, or more, than Thaksin did for the poor, except without the fanfare and the cash handouts.

This isn't about "democracy" either. The reds aren't about democracy. During this protest, the reds talked about freedom of speech, but whenever there were any anti-red protests, the reds threatened, or actually attacked, those protests. They stop any opposing views from being aired in red areas. They stop any non-red politicians from campaigning in the red areas. Outside the red heartlands in the N/NE, where everyone is free to campaign, the reds do not have much support.

Thaksin worked out how to exploit the poor in the N/NE to his advantage. He, and the red leaders, are continuing to exploit them, all just for their own power and greed.

Good reply.

The people crying as they left the red camp, were crying because they realized they weren't going to receive their pay.

[difos57]

Actually, I find this type of post very troubling.

It sort of fits into the "mai pben rai" attitude that Thais have...something that mightily figures into the current crisis. The perceived richness of the people in Bangkok compared to the perceived poorness of the people in rural villages. Mai pben rai.

I'm getting out after a year of living here as a retiree. When I notified my apartment manager (who happens to be Indian) he immediately said, "Oh, just wait 4 days. Everything will be perfect again."

It's sort of like "freedom"...once people get a taste of it, they're rarely satisfied until they really have it. You can't always put the animal back in the cage. I think the article is incredibly naive and is going to result in nothing really changing and more pressure building.

I'm serious, this kind of article makes me want to vomit...literally.

this article is not naive, it just reflects the positive attitude of 99% of the people (including us Farang living here) here in Bangkok who look forward and are ready to rebuild this ecxiting city, both the structures as well as the reputation.....

if such positive attitude makes u vomit, we r all happy to see you leave as soon as possible.... but leave forever, please.....

Agreed. Move to South Africa. No Thanks, but don't stop the door from slapping your ass on the way out. Some posters were commenting on the similarities between SA and Thailand. We will see the difference now. These are totaly different countries. We will see this now. I willl put my money on Thailand. Thais (excluding the reds) are hard working, patience and respectful. I will stay and help rebuild where I can.

[Insight]

Rather than Bangkokians holding a 'We love Bangkok' day, they would be better to hold a 'We love Issan' day, to demonstrate that the people of Bangkok stand together with the people of Issan and all the rest of Thailand in their wish for an equal society.

Of course, it will never happen

Simon

Why? Has Issan just been ripped apart by thugs acting on orders?

Appreciate there's poverty issues, but surely a first step is to remove the scummy officials that encouraged what happened in BKK last week.

Nah, they keep voting them in instead.

[cmsally]

Good to see a Positive thinker!

I try to be not a "positive thinker" or a "negative thinker". I try to find the balance in the middle -- perhaps with a goal of being a "realistic, balanced thinker".

I find the article to be just another piece of propaganda. However even though being here for more than 20 yrs my strategy has been very much along the lines of most of the elite. Have a residence here and in another country just in case Thailand falls flat on its face.

So far its doing a good job and I'm glad our family have a plan B. Thailands a nice country and at times it has looked as though it might forge ahead, but the concentration of wealth which tries to eat at the same table makes for some fearsome food fights.

[Thai at Heart]

yep, bangkok will rise like a pheonix and the baht will drop like a stone to the £..... probably. how bad must the UK economy be to continue to loose ground to the baht....?

you get a lot for of baht for your pound, what are you whining about?!

47baht/£ isn't enouth!!! 2 years ago it was 65!

Call SIR Fred Goodwin and Gordon Brown MP. I think the fault lies at their door, not Thailand's.

[Arkady]

Actually, I find this type of post very troubling.

It sort of fits into the "mai pben rai" attitude that Thais have...something that mightily figures into the current crisis. The perceived richness of the people in Bangkok compared to the perceived poorness of the people in rural villages. Mai pben rai.

I'm getting out after a year of living here as a retiree. When I notified my apartment manager (who happens to be Indian) he immediately said, "Oh, just wait 4 days. Everything will be perfect again."

It's sort of like "freedom"...once people get a taste of it, they're rarely satisfied until they really have it. You can't always put the animal back in the cage. I think the article is incredibly naive and is going to result in nothing really changing and more pressure building.

I'm serious, this kind of article makes me want to vomit...literally.

You will not be missed.

[Geekfreaklover]

In my view this is far from over. The Red's will just regroup and wait for instructions from the T. camp Although I too wish for a peace and normality in this crazy but awesome country I fear the divisions are far to wide and with the loss of face it will take a long time to heal all of the rifts caused by the years of imbalance by the elite and the poor. As far as Buddha or buddhist goes Buddha left Thailand a long time ago

The Buddha never set foot in Thailand physically, Metaphorically Thai Buddhism is probably less mixed up with animist beliefs than it was in the past, so in a sense the Buddhism now practiced is purer than before.

I agree about the reds regrouping, it is bound to happen, but most of the Thais I have met just want to get back to work and get on with things as they were. There is optimism and hope.

[losworld]

Bangkok Will Rise Like A Phoenix

Or sink like the Titanic

.....or like the Thaitanic

Seriously though, Thailand will move on. Cambodia moved on after the Khmers, Burma is troubled, but won't always be, so it too will move on. Hope springs eternal, especially in the faces and actions of little children. Yesterday, I played catch with a little Burmese boy, using a tennis ball. We just met. He kept wanting to kick it, and I kept trying to get him to use his hands - to get him started on being a future baseball star. Needs work.

What to do about the #1 enemy of Thailand? I don't know. Probably best is to try and keep him off the front pages of Thai newspapers (and block his inciteful phone-ins) and hope he eventually fades to insignificance.

Just watch out how Bali quickly got back on her feet after 2002 damages...

Don't forget this it was a much stronger economy at that time.

[phetaroi]

You will not be missed.

I have to admit that I am stunned that because I have a very apprehensive view of the situation that I am virtually told to love it or leave it. I guess there are plenty of western rednecks right in Bangkok.

I'm getting to be an old man. I want to live in peace. I don't see why that bothers some people so much.

[Tokay]

This is probably far from over as the core of the problem was not resolved. The only thing that happened was the gov cleared the reds out of Bangkok in what was the most violent clash in Thailand's history, yet not a single issue the reds were there for was addressed.

The only hope there is, will be if the reds wake up and see the movement as the sham it is. They are only pawns in a game of power hungry men. Having said that, Thaksin did more for Issan than anyone ever has so it will be very difficult to convince any of them otherwise.

Without even digging you see statements like, "7 years imprisonment for anyone caught burning a tire." While the yellows closed the airport and nothing happened to them. This is the very fuel that may start the fire again.

[Tokay]

I wonder when we stop being "farengs".

Sadly, never. And they will never stop being "Thai" to us instead of just "people."

[asiawatcher]

There's no doubt Bangkok will rebuild but what about the rest of Thailand?

In reality this is a very divided country and all the smiling, wai-ing does not cover the pundits who will now rebuild will already be scheming on how much money they can scam in contracts. The wheel of corruption continues to turn and the wealth gets redistributed again - and you can bet Takky's Team will be in on it somewhere - just look at ole' Swampy and the construction contracts of the runways!

Thailand has and will continue to rise like the Phoenix but is always leaves ashes.

The red shirts had a real gripe - they were poorly led. Their issues are real, their methodologies to obtain change were/are not. But there IS hope in Thailand if it is allowed to happen. Despite what the outside world reports and what the internal power brokers think, the man at the helm right now - if given support from his fragmented parties - will turn this place around.

If he is given the chance things will change - he has already introduced social changes, it was suggested earlier in these blogs Takky's confiscated funds should be distributed - but now they will be needed to rebuild. I do however, support say 50% of the funds being put into land management, irrigation and education in the poor areas. As things grow they can be harvested and funds return to the poorer areas of Thailand but sitting on the stoop drinking Mekong and when all full of booze and bad manners, decide to join a riot, is not the way out.

Tolerance to the Thai poor, incarceration of the pundits of destructions and a good plan of rehabilitation for Thailand without Western influence will get this place happening - yet again. I live in hope as it is my country too even without a PR status!

[dttk0009]

This is probably far from over as the core of the problem was not resolved. The only thing that happened was the gov cleared the reds out of Bangkok in what was the most violent clash in Thailand's history, yet not a single issue the reds were there for was addressed.

The only hope there is, will be if the reds wake up and see the movement as the sham it is. They are only pawns in a game of power hungry men. Having said that, Thaksin did more for Issan than anyone ever has so it will be very difficult to convince any of them otherwise.

Without even digging you see statements like, "7 years imprisonment for anyone caught burning a tire." While the yellows closed the airport and nothing happened to them. This is the very fuel that may start the fire again.

It's not so black and white. That Thaksin has done more for them is an unfair sentiment as well. He was PM for 5 years, and it's not his programs that people love him for, it's his cash handouts that many are addicted and dependent on. Abhisit has not at all been ignoring the rural parts of the country, but at the same time, he came to power during a global economic crisis and a local political crisis. He has not even been given a chance despite ALREADY having made efforts to change things upcountry. If he were given a full term he could have easily managed some good, long term changes that would bring many of the proper solutions on track.

Giving each village a million baht is not going to do jack shit to solve any real problems these people face. The dilemma is, though, that humans are much more keen on instant gratification than they are future gratification. Besides, what was done with the millions of baht given to villages? Built new schools? Infrastructure? Road improvement? Nope. Pick up trucks, mobile phones, booze and gambling. NICE. This country's problems are far from solvable by just 'letting the reds vote and win'. Someone needs to forcibly inject the northern part of the country with education, jobs and long term reforms because they don't even want that themselves.

My 2 cents.

[Casuarina]

Seems like the same old tactics of using media to brainwash human's mind is still working in Thailand.

Why are people still some blinded by the press and so called Democratic Govt who only choose to reveal partial truth which is in their favor.

Shockingly, so many Bangkokians still accept the brainwash exercise.

Is there a reboot button to stop these mind from being manipulated by media, govt and so called "must not be named family"?

We are already in 2010. People must be given the freedom of different viewpoint. I am so sick of multiple repeat of Mr "Thick Skin" Handsome PM recordings. It sounds like a broken record.

Surprising to me. This tactics still work in Thailand.

Mr "Thick Skin" PM, Be a gentleman. Let others play their records too. You can't just play your favourite song day in day out. I am starting to puke because of indigestion.

[asiawatcher]

This is probably far from over as the core of the problem was not resolved. The only thing that happened was the gov cleared the reds out of Bangkok in what was the most violent clash in Thailand's history, yet not a single issue the reds were there for was addressed.

The only hope there is, will be if the reds wake up and see the movement as the sham it is. They are only pawns in a game of power hungry men. Having said that, Thaksin did more for Issan than anyone ever has so it will be very difficult to convince any of them otherwise.

Without even digging you see statements like, "7 years imprisonment for anyone caught burning a tire." While the yellows closed the airport and nothing happened to them. This is the very fuel that may start the fire again.

It's not so black and white. That Thaksin has done more for them is an unfair sentiment as well. He was PM for 5 years, and it's not his programs that people love him for, it's his cash handouts that many are addicted and dependent on. Abhisit has not at all been ignoring the rural parts of the country, but at the same time, he came to power during a global economic crisis and a local political crisis. He has not even been given a chance despite ALREADY having made efforts to change things upcountry. If he were given a full term he could have easily managed some good, long term changes that would bring many of the proper solutions on track.

Giving each village a million baht is not going to do jack shit to solve any real problems these people face. The dilemma is, though, that humans are much more keen on instant gratification than they are future gratification. Besides, what was done with the millions of baht given to villages? Built new schools? Infrastructure? Road improvement? Nope. Pick up trucks, mobile phones, booze and gambling. NICE. This country's problems are far from solvable by just 'letting the reds vote and win'. Someone needs to forcibly inject the northern part of the country with education, jobs and long term reforms because they don't even want that themselves.

My 2 cents.

Yes - like junkies - they got their fix of public monies - Takky did not pay from his pockets to get elected,- and like all junkies they have had a taste of a better life - hardly the good life - and now are addicted. Fortunately all the accounts have been frozen and the chances of these people getting paid - even the ones promised 200,000 Baht of loss of a family member is now like all drug dealers - never gonna happen! Takky always made heaps of promises with no downside - including this foray into terrorism. What an ass**le

[jitenshaman]

This is probably far from over as the core of the problem was not resolved. The only thing that happened was the gov cleared the reds out of Bangkok in what was the most violent clash in Thailand's history, yet not a single issue the reds were there for was addressed.

The only hope there is, will be if the reds wake up and see the movement as the sham it is. They are only pawns in a game of power hungry men. Having said that, Thaksin did more for Issan than anyone ever has so it will be very difficult to convince any of them otherwise.

Without even digging you see statements like, "7 years imprisonment for anyone caught burning a tire." While the yellows closed the airport and nothing happened to them. This is the very fuel that may start the fire again.

It's not so black and white. That Thaksin has done more for them is an unfair sentiment as well. He was PM for 5 years, and it's not his programs that people love him for, it's his cash handouts that many are addicted and dependent on. Abhisit has not at all been ignoring the rural parts of the country, but at the same time, he came to power during a global economic crisis and a local political crisis. He has not even been given a chance despite ALREADY having made efforts to change things upcountry. If he were given a full term he could have easily managed some good, long term changes that would bring many of the proper solutions on track.

Giving each village a million baht is not going to do jack shit to solve any real problems these people face. The dilemma is, though, that humans are much more keen on instant gratification than they are future gratification. Besides, what was done with the millions of baht given to villages? Built new schools? Infrastructure? Road improvement? Nope. Pick up trucks, mobile phones, booze and gambling. NICE. This country's problems are far from solvable by just 'letting the reds vote and win'. Someone needs to forcibly inject the northern part of the country with education, jobs and long term reforms because they don't even want that themselves.

My 2 cents.

your 2 cents is right on, unfortunately, i dont see the NE/reds ever liking Abhisit no matter what he does for them, he is too ingrained as a monster right now...and yes, instant gratification rules. I mean imagine all the young ladies going back to their village homes and saying, "I met a farang, he isn't going to buy me a house or get you a pickup truck, but he is going to pay for me to get an education."

[souvenirdeparis]

With the opening of MRT Subway this Sunday, let's hope that this is a signal of normality returning to Bangkok. (via @RichardBarrow)

I think what he meant to say was normalcy

save up on your pocket -money to buy yourself a decent dictionary when you grow up.

he said exactly what he meant ; normalcy is something else.

[chadintheusa]

Looks like everyone went shopping today, traffic was terrible, for the first time I've seen soldiers at Central Rattanathibet searching cars and motorbikes. Don't know if it's a good sign to have the army on my doorstep or not.

[andyww]

Good reply.

The people crying as they left the red camp, were crying because they realized they weren't going to receive their pay.

Dont agree. The people were crying because they had just been dealt a sudden dose of reality. Most of these people had no real idea of the issues they were campaigning for. They were much like members of a religious cult, brainwashed by so-called leaders into following some kind of movement without a full appreciation of the fact they were just pawns in a giant ego-trip of a bunch of thugs.

Hopefully these people will never be conned in this way again and the Red movement has finally torn itself apart and will cease to exist as a populist force.

[chadintheusa]

With the opening of MRT Subway this Sunday, let's hope that this is a signal of normality returning to Bangkok. (via @RichardBarrow)

I think what he meant to say was normalcy

save up on your pocket -money to buy yourself a decent dictionary when you grow up.

he said exactly what he meant ; normalcy is something else.

actually they are the same thing.

[elcent]

long way to go.

This cannot be compared to a natural disaster.

Too many affected people on both sides which is not even addressed yet.

[punisher]

What a sad day, guess some reds woke up now. Time for Thaksin's head rollin'.................

Why not stop?Always Thaksin,Thaksin,Thaksin,why always blame him,what do u actually know about Thailand and past of Thailand?

[ThailandTommy]

Rise like a Phoenix, very positive but no background.

Nothing been change from 2 months ago accept damage and lost off live and income.

So we back where we started

Agree and in 3-4 yrs time the same thing will happen again.......

[chadintheusa]

What a sad day, guess some reds woke up now. Time for Thaksin's head rollin'.................

Why not stop?Always Thaksin,Thaksin,Thaksin,why always blame him,what do u actually know about Thailand and past of Thailand?

We blame him cause he did it. We know that he was a corrupt politician who used the people in the north to grab power. We know he is a ruthless person and greedy for power. We know that several of the red shirt leaders claimed to take their marching orders directly from Thaksin. We know he has been convicted and sentenced by the Thai courts. We know he is desperate to reclaim his ill gotten money and will burn the whole country to do it. The question is why anyone would defend him.

[brahmburgers]

My Thai friends from other parts of thailand who were supposed to come visit soon, now all saying they will have to postpone their trip.

I also talk to people in HK, Taiwan and Malaysia. Malaysian woman said they Malaysians are shocked at what happened. She was also planning her trip to Thailand soon and go to go Hua Hin. Canceled. A HK woman who comes to Thailand 4 times a year said 'No Way" even though I tried to tell her that it was not so bad (well I lied, sorry) My good friend from Taipei will still come, probably??, but she told me she was very scared .

Interesting that all those you mention are Asians. You'll notice that whenever there's a security problem at a tourist destination, it's the Asian tourists who cancel reservations first. Similarly, when there's a dust up in a troubled part of the world, the Asians are among the last to participate in security duties. Look at the first Gulf War or the Serbian/Kosovo problem, or the current Afghan war. Very few, if any Asians in the trenches. They're there when the dust clears and the 'all clear' is given, so they can set up businesses. But the job of putting out troops and doing the tough jobs falls to the Americans, the Brits, Europeans, and Aussies. Same for East Timor, if you look at who was most concerned and who put troops on the ground first. Weren't any Asian forces initially - none even expressed concern. It was only later, after being asked by farang countries to contribute a token presence, that a few Asian troops reluctantly showed up.

Oh well, just had to vent a bit. It's been a slow weekend for this armchair general.

[brahmburgers]

You might be right, but I think the Red leadership will have their hands full for a long time to come, with legal fights, the typical Thaksin "Fleeing the country to avoid prosecution" response, and the huge stigma of having burned down large areas in Bangkok. Their strength, really, was an illusion, bought and paid for by Thaksin. This was never a grassroots "Power to the people" campaign. If that was the case, they wouldn't have need to have been paid to attend.

I don't think there will be a regrouping for a while. It is just going to be the continuing RED DEMOCRACY. Grenade attacks and violence on other politicians and other groups that don't have the same "ideals" as the reds. This is not about rich and poor. It never has been. The leaders of the reds are all very rich. The village leaders in the red areas are all rich. The poor in non-red areas are not protesting. There was no uprising by the poor against the government when the army moved in. This government are doing as much, or more, than Thaksin did for the poor, except without the fanfare and the cash handouts.

This isn't about "democracy" either. The reds aren't about democracy. During this protest, the reds talked about freedom of speech, but whenever there were any anti-red protests, the reds threatened, or actually attacked, those protests. They stop any opposing views from being aired in red areas. They stop any non-red politicians from campaigning in the red areas. Outside the red heartlands in the N/NE, where everyone is free to campaign, the reds do not have much support.

Thaksin worked out how to exploit the poor in the N/NE to his advantage. He, and the red leaders, are continuing to exploit them, all just for their own power and greed.

Agree 100% with both above posts. This will get interestinger (yes, play on words) as the money trail is further revealed. So far, I'm about the only one demanding that the Red rally paymasters pay for the damages their rally produced. I predict more voices will come around to that demand.

If a man starts a giant bonfire in the middle of a town, and he and his family and friends get everyone with a pimple on their nose to add fuel to the fire. ....And the fire winds up burning down the town, who's to blame? Yes, that's right, the people who incited the pimple nosed ones to feed the raging inferno. The pimple noses don't have any money (so they say), so it stands to reason that you prosecute the ones who financed the inferno (the Red rallies). Follow the money.

[chesneychez]

i hope farangs will donate too