Thai Government Accuses Reds Over Huge Weapons Cache

[Arkady]

I think this one is better at showing the red shirts "only having fire crackers". Watch at about 30 seconds.

In fact that guy doing shooting motions doesn't have anything more than a red scoop with a long wooden handle, I've seen a fuller video of that and it's clear it's not a weapon.

There are several videos of armed protesters but this one is not one of them.

On the other hand put yourself on the other side of the barricade, you see and hear detonations from the tire wall, and someone pops up pretending (unknown to you) to fire a weapon in your direction. With all the smoke around it would be hard to see clearly, how can the soldiers be blamed if they shoot back with actual weapons?

The guy with the metal tube shooting large fireworks, see it from the other side, you see a metal tube poking out and then something is fired from it making a big explosion, firework or M79, how can you tell for sure? would you take the risk of not trying to shoot the attacker until you do?

This idiots in the barricades were taking it as play, see how the laugh and cheer when they lobe molotov cocktails and fireworks towards the soldiers, isn't the concept of "if you play with fire you will end up burnt" known in Thailand?

It's pretty obvious that the "men in black" either didn't show up for the final battle, or slipped away after being tipped off by police that the end was nigh. They were obviously highly paid mecenaries, probably from several factions or groups, who would have been very keen to collect and enjoy their pay checks. Their main purpose was the use of violence using the advantage of surprise. They had already served their purpose by stopping the military advance on April 10th and launching grenade attacks around Saladaeng and elesewhere. What benefit would it have been to them or their employers, if they had fought a heroic last stand and all been wiped out with weapons in their hands and then identified and traced back to their employers. The reason the casualties were not heavier during the final dispersal is that they were not there any more. Some red guard amateurs got hold of war weapons and hand guns and fired them at troops in a suicide stand at Lumpini Park but that's all. The men in black are still armed and dangerous and are still out there.

[luckyman]

6 undetonated carbombs found at Rajprasong, meant to completely blow up the area

Head Forensic Department Dr Pornthip Rojanasunan disclosed that car bombs were found by security task force in 4 Rajprasong areas. The bombs were put together in a manner almost ready to detonate, she said. Government Spokesperson Dr Panithan Watanayakorn pointed out that they were meant to blow up Rajprasong area.

Earlier today, Dr Pornthip had found almost 1,000 suspected explosive materials scattered around Rajprasong. DNA cross matching is currently in progress.

-- Tan Network 2010-05-22

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[animatic]

6 undetonated carbombs found at Rajprasong, meant to completely blow up the area

Head Forensic Department Dr Pornthip Rojanasunan disclosed that car bombs were found by security task force in 4 Rajprasong areas. The bombs were put together in a manner almost ready to detonate, she said. Government Spokesperson Dr Panithan Watanayakorn pointed out that they were meant to blow up Rajprasong area.

Earlier today, Dr Pornthip had found almost 1,000 suspected explosive materials scattered around Rajprasong. DNA cross matching is currently in progress.

-- Tan Network 2010-05-22

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

For the gov to blame a drunken and loud mouth Brit for torching central world is ludicrous....<snip> ...it was well known by the underground "reds" that central was the target...it makes me angry that the thai gov tries to shift blame for what happened to a stupid Brit who had no right even being there...he was just mouthing off what the "reds" on the scene had told him...the weapons cache is further evidence that their intent was to raise mayhem in this great city and country...thats my opinion

The government aren't BLAMING the Brit for "torching" central world. He may have been involved, and he has admitted to being at the Channel 3 torching (although he said he didn't do it).

But his little rant did indicate that the torching was pre-planned, and it was clearly done by red shirt protestors.

His rant did more than that .... it indicated that this was "common knowledge" inside the Red camp. It would indicate that he heard it discussed openly (unless you think he was the instigator) and means that the mob itself is actually culpable in all that happened.

Common Knowlege, yes makes sense.

If the wacko idiot farang knows this, it was talked about openly on the barricades,

if not openly with the old grannies and stage side human shields.

I can't say every person at the protest knew acts of terrorism were happening and planned

leaving them to hold the bag, but clearly certain segments definitely knew

and were prepared to act when the time came. And this Savage fool's knowing it,

points to it been more commonly held knowledge.

I am sure they will show him dozens of photos and ask who was where when,

when he is milked dry they will hang him of for a spell and the ship him out in disgrace.

But first he will be a very good westerly-visible public source of information.

Edited May 24, 2010 by animatic

[SiangDeeMahk]

But his little rant did indicate that the torching was pre-planned, and it was clearly done by red shirt protestors.

Your post just triggered something in my mind, that I don't believe that I've seen posted anywhere yet (unless I just haven't seen it)

At first, I didn't see the significance of it; I just thought "Oh, another angry farang mouthing off on Youtube"..but now I believe that I see something quite significant:

This dumb-assed white boy (I'm also a white boy, BTW) was palling around with the Redshirts, and allowed himself foolishly to be captured on video and photographs a few times, most notably the now infamous stick-throwing YouTube clip, where he (as you just pointed out) basically "outed" the EXTREMELY SENSITIVE fact that the Redshirts were planning pre-meditated arson; hugely proving that they didn't just "defensively or reactively" start to set fires in response to the big crackdown. It's pretty clear that he was privy to their inner plans, and filled with gusto, mustard (and, now, according to him, "Steroids"), he couldn't help but blurt out his wonderful/terrible secret about the Big Red Plans.

So, why'd he do that??

You know how some people just can't keep big secrets, right? They hold it inside fror a bit, but then finally burst? Haven't we all experienced the discomfort of keeping (and the burning desire to TELL) the big, big secret, and get to "show off" how you know something other people don't, which makes you feel better than them? Actually, it's not so surprising to see a Farang act this way in Thailand. After all, while we're here, we're deeply repressed, low on the totem pole, and have daily frustrations with being reduced to the bottom of the respect pile. We're barely allowed to work, own anything, we're taxed and paperworked to death, we're charged separate prices, younger Thais often userp us in queues (something they can't do with older Thias), it's the norm for us to become the payee when some kind of clash between Thai and Farang result in some kind of loss, or damage. And even when we're here on decent pretences, living here, maintaining a normal healthy relationship with a Thai partner, we're still often initially looked at (by both Thai and other westerns) as a typical, ubiquitous sextourists.

If Rodney Dangerfield (RIP) were to step onto Sukhomvit Rd, and utter his most famous tagline "I don't get no respect!", it wouldn't be humorous, it would just be accurate. It's quite true that it requires a lot of calm, passivity and patience to survive here as a westerner. Not all of us manage to pull it off.

So, this western turd found that he suddenly had a newfound power (in the form of illicit Redshirt knowledge), in this Kindom of powerless westerners, and just couldn't help himself from showing it off (via his big mouth) in public. Didn't you see the triumph in his eyes, and that smirk, as he "proved to the camera" that he was a Farang (finally) with power (via his terrible secret) in Thailand??

After providing irrefutable proof of the true intent of the Reds (and then confirming it again, in a later interview), and the fact that he's now a very large lynchpin (which has allowed a wide opening) of the door on their actual agenda(s):

(and here's the real point of my post):

If I were him, I'd be worrying a LOT less about the Thai Government picking him up for palling around with the Reds, the Farang electronic community screaming for his ejection from the country, and I'd be getting my ass to the farthest point on the face of the earth, away from any possible Redshirt commissioned execution squad, who would be hunting him down to "re-pay" him for massively wasting millions of Bath spent, a terrible amount of lives lost, and 2 month's time spent trying to carefully craft the public image of the "peaceful democracy-seeking Redshirt movement" (even though it's pure poppycock). Also, wouldn't it definitely serve the Reds, to get this guy dead (and quiet) as soon as possible, before the Government has a chance to squeeze him, (spilling the beans ever further on the Redshirts)? You sure didn't see any Thai's walking around town in front of a videocamera exposing the Redshirt's true intentions (and that's a LOT of people keeping their mouths firmly shut).. so with the way this guy fired his mouth off, is there any way you can see the Red's NOT wanting to just whack this guy, at this point??

If I was Mr. Savage (that's his name), I'd have grabbed my passport, gotten in the taxi and headed for the airport (with a credit card to buy a ticket at the counter, or I'd have stopped the taxi at the pawnshop to sell everything I owned for cash to pay for the ticket), to take a one way flight to the top of any very, very far away snow-covered mountain, the second I saw myself timestamped on Youtube, completely exposing a major part of the Redshirt's secret agenda days before it happened.

Frankly, I would expect him to meet with "foul play" pretty much at any point of his life now, whether he ends up in Thai jail, deported, or whatever, I suspect he'll be marked for death.. He's single-handedly now wasted a massive amount of the Reds money, blood, time, and caused a simply unrecoverable loss of their hard-fought-for PR image. And even more egregiously, he's "one of those barely tolerated Farang", who's been totally caught daring to meddle in Thai-only political matters on global media.

I suppose in the modern, digital, connected world, he might not have been able to actually get out (and stay out) of Thailand, but I might have at least tried, instead of giving more proud interviews.

Face it, in a country were someone of almost no power can pay a thug $300US to go whack someone (from the back of a speeding motorbike) for a insurance payout of 1m Bath (or less), there's NO WAY this YouTube Idiot is going to live long if he's in the Kingdom. The super-powerful and rich (yet xenophobic and uber-proud/patriotic) Thais that are in control here (or more precisely; ousted ones that are trying to GET control... ahem) have the power and money to arrange to kill the guy, who kills the guy, who kills the family who knows the security guy that paid the official (who are both also killed) not to "see" the guy who gets the high-security access to kill YouTube Dude (even if he's in "protective custody"; whatever that actually means, in LOS), and all the people around him, at the time. And then of course, tell any story they like to the media; car crash during jail-to-court transport (massive sunglare, of course), terminal/untreatable food poisoning via rotten sum tom boo-bala, structural failure (the upper bunkbed in the jail cell fell on his skull), the classic: "Uhh.... I dunno; it was some strange guys in, uhh, :::counts on fingers, muttering "what didn't we use yet?"::: oh yeah, purple shirts; they rushed in here and just blew him away", those tricky sunspots, or even simpler than all that: Just manipulate a legal trial and have him be sentenced to death for some kind of treason (true or not).

Why should any of this be important to anyone other than this guy?

Simple. This foolish act of damaging the Redshirt'ss movement won't go unnoticed. Not by a longshot, it won't. They (and other Thais) are not likely to soon forget how badly burned they got for having consorted with/trusted a westerner, and if you don't think that'll noticeably change things (both in the short and long term) for westerners here in Thailand, THEN YOU'RE CRAZY. Try to extrapolate what happens when a Farang slaps or punches a Thai in public (you know, when some 20-odd Thais suddenly mob-up from nowhere, and beat the living piss out of him relentlessly, like wasps attacking, until (and sometime even after) he's passed out on the street) up and out to a national scale.

Make no mistake, we are no longer benign, harmless, culturally ignorant "outside onlookers" to what's going to continue to happen here; we're now more "targetable" than we were, before. Shifts in public attitudes and perceptions often do occur BEFORE it becomes widely recognized and/or plastered obviously on the international news feeds. Think about it.

I have a few of my own terrible secrets; facts and discovery of impending plot(s), that were only shared with me (I suppose) because I've demonstrated my calm, quiet, (Thai-like?) nature, and an ability to keep my big white mouth shut, and therefore have gained the trust of a Thai connected to the military, here.

Gossip is one thing, but the source of information has great bearing on it's validity.

Being that I don't spill secrets (because unlike that 'TARD on Youtube, I actually do have the ability to predict the likelihood of things going very wrong for me and the people that I care about here, if I did), I can only say that due to some quite possible upcoming events, it certainly looks like it's a very bad time for westerners to become (even) less respected by rural Thais, and Thais in general. I surely wish I could de-mystify that statement, but I just can't say more than that. I'm sure that will elicit responses of "you're making that up for attention/you're a doomsayer/prove it or shutup". Say what you will; I'll just have to bear your disbelief.

I can only say, I SINCERELY hope that what I know, proves to be false (not likely), or is successfully countered before it becomes reality (which is what I'm praying for, personally). As I've posted before, the REAL questions about weapons caches that we should be asking is: Who enabled those weapons to be available for the people (yes, I mean Redshirt/Blackshirt people) that used them, who will be arming and financing the next set of events, and now (much more importantly), just WHICH PEOPLE, EXACTLY will be using those weapons during those events. (which is, again, something I've been trusted NOT to disclose).. Grrrr...

In the meantime, please don't imagine that this "situation" is over, please continue to have emergency backup plans (and make sure your loved ones have congruent plans as well), and please continue to enjoy your life as much as possible in this struggling paradise (within the reasonable measures dictated by the current environment).

[khaowong1]

In the US of A, we wouldn't call this a political party, we would call them a whacko militia and would be dealt with in a very harsh way. I see photo's in the newspapers of their leaders laying around in a hospital bed. Well that's very nice, but how about putting some handcuffs on them instead of giving them some kind of hero treatment.

[rogera]

The following is an open letter to CNN which has been written to several newspapers and to CNN, the BBC et al which I think sums up the feelings that, red shirt sympathisers here excepted, many of us feel about the reporting of a so-called professional journalists, Dan Rivers and Sarah Snider. The letter speaks for itself and to help those Thai readers, each paragraph has been translated into Thai by the author. The letter speaks for itself:

Quote

นภัส ณ ป้อมเพ็ชร์ 



เพราะจดหมายของ นภัส ณ ป้อมเพ็ชร์ ที่ส่งถึงช่องข่าว CNN ได้รับการกล่าวขานไม่แพ้วาทกรรมของ คุณอ๊อฟ - พงษ์พัฒน์ วชิรบรรจง ทำให้ชื่อของ นภัส ณ ป้อมเพ็ชร์ สาวไทยใจกล้า เป็นอีกหนึ่งคนที่ใคร ๆ ก็อยากรู้จักเธอมากที่สุดในตอนนี้


 

Dear Sirs/Madams, 



Recently, CNN Thailand Correspondents Dan Rivers and Sarah Snider have made me seriously reconsider your agency as a source for reliable and accurate unbiased news. As of this writing, over thousands of CNN’s viewers have already begun to question the accuracy and dependability of its reporting as regards events in Afghanistan, Haiti, Iraq, Iran, etc., in addition to Bangkok.

เร็ว ๆ นี้ ผู้สื่อข่าว CNN ประจำประเทศไทย ทั้ง แดน ริเวอร์ และ ซาร่าห์ ซไนเดอร์ ทำให้ดิฉันต้องกลับมาพิจารณาอย่างจริงจังว่าข่าวของสำนักข่าวของคุณเป็นแหล่งข่าวที่เชื่อถือได้ มีความถูกต้อง และไม่เอนเอียงไปข้างใดข้างหนึ่งหรือไม่ ในขณะที่ดิฉันกำลังเขียนจดหมายฉบับนี้ มีผู้เสพข่าวของ CNN กำลังตั้งคำถามถึงความแม่นยำและแหล่งข่าวในการนำเสนอเหตุการณ์ที่เกิดขึ้นใน อาฟกานิสสถาน ไฮติ อิรัก อิหร่าน เป็นต้น .. เพิ่มเติมจากการเสนอข่าวในกรุงเทพมห

As a first-rate global news agency, CNN has an inherent professional duty to deliver all sides of the truth to the global public who have faithfully and sincerely placed their trust and reliance in you. Your news network, by its longtime transnational presence and extensive reach, has been put in a position of trust and care; CNN’s journalists, reporters, and researchers have a collective responsibility to follow the journalist's code and ethics to deliver and present facts from all facets of the story, not merely one-sided, shallow and sensational half-truths. The magnitude of harm or potential extent of damage that erroneous and fallacious news reporting can cause to (and exacerbate), not only a country’s internal state of affairs, economic well-being, and general international perception, but also the real lives and livelihood of the innocent and voiceless people of that nation, is enormous. CNN should not negligently discard its duty of care to the international populace by reporting single-sided or unverified facts and distorted truths drawn from superficial research, or display/distribute biased images which capture only one side of the actual event. 



ในฐานะที่เป็นสำนักข่าวชั้นนำของโลก CNN มีหน้าที่ในการเสนอข่าวอย่างรอบด้าน บนพื้นฐานของความจริงต่อประชาชนทั่วโลกที่ให้ความไว้วางใจอย่างสุจริตต่อการเสนอข่าวของสำนักข่าวของท่าน เครือข่ายข่าวนานาชาติของท่านยังดำรงอยู่และเข้าถึงอย่างกว้างขวางโดยพื้นฐานของการนำเสนออย่างระมัดระวังและไว้ใจได้มาอย่างยาวนาน ; นักข่าว ผู้สื่อข่าว และผู้ที่ทำการวิจัยข้อมูลของ CNN ต้องมีความรับผิดชอบในการปฏิบัติตนตามมาตรฐานการปฏิบัติและจริยธรรมของผู้สื่อข่าว ในอันที่จะนำเสนอเรื่องราวและข้อเท็จจริงรอบด้าน ไม่ใช่การนำเสนอข่าวด้านเดียว ที่ตื้นเขิน และความจริงเพียงครึ่งเดียว ความเสียหายและโอกาสที่จะเกิดความเสียหายที่ร้ายแรงจากความเข้าใจผิดหรือการรับรู้ที่ไม่ถูกต้องอาจจะเกิดขึ้นได้ (และถูกทำให้แย่ลง) ไม่เพียงแค่ในส่วนที่เกี่ยวกับกิจการภายในของประเทศ ภาวะเศรษฐกิจ และภาพลักษณ์ต่อประชาคมโลกเท่านั้น แต่ยังรวมถึงชีวิตความเป็นอยู่จริงๆของผู้คนที่ไม่รู้อิโหน่อิเหน่และไม่มีปากเสียงของประเทศนั้น ๆ ด้วย นี่เป็นเรื่องที่ใหญ่โต CNN ไม่ควรจะเพิกเฉยและละเลยหน้าทีที่ต้องใช้ความระมัดระวังในในการนำเสนอข่าวเพียงด้านเดียวในประชาคมโลก หรือการที่ไม่ตรวจสอบยืนยันความถูกต้องของข่าว และแม้แต่การบิดเบือนข้อเท็จจริงที่นำมาจากการการวิจัยอย่างคร่าว ๆ ผิวๆ เผิน ๆ หรือการนำเสนอ / แจกจ่ายรูปภาพที่เอนเอียงไปด้านใดด้านหนึ่งของความจริงทั้งหมดในภาพรวม 



Mr. Rivers and Ms. Snider have NOT done their best under these life-threatening circumstances because many other foreign correspondents have done better. All of Mr. Rivers and Ms. Sniders' quotes and statements seem to have been solely taken from the anti-government protest leaders or their followers/sympathizers. Yet, all details about the government’s position have come from secondary resources. No direct interviews with government officials have been shown; no interviews or witness statements from ordinary Bangkok residents or civilians unaffiliated with the protesters, particularly those who have been harassed by or suffered at the hands of the protesters, have been circulated. 



คุณริเวอร์ และคุณซไนเดอร์ ไม่ได้ทำหน้าที่อย่างดีที่สุดภายใต้ภาวะที่อาจจะเกิดการคุกคามชีวิต เพราะผู้สื่อข่าวของสำนักข่าวอื่น ๆ ทำหน้าที่ได้ดีกว่านี้ ทุกสิ่งที่คุณริเวอร์ และคุณซไนเดอร์กล่าวถึงและเขียนถึง ล้วนแต่เป็นเรื่องที่นำมาจากแกนนำของกลุ่มผู้ประท้วงต่อต้าน หรือผู้ชุมนุมที่ฟูมฟายเรียกร้องความเห็นอกเห็นใจ ดังนั้น รายละเอียดทั้งหมดที่เกี่ยวกับทางฝ่ายรัฐบาลล้วนได้มาจากแหล่งข่าวรอง ๆ ทั้งสิ้น ยังไม่ปรากฏว่ามีการเข้าไปสัมภาษณ์เจ้าหน้าที่ฝ่ายรัฐโดยตรง หรือการเข้าไปรับทราบการรายงานจากประชาชนที่อาศัยอยู่ในเขตกรุงเทพมหานคร และผู้ที่ไม่เกี่ยวข้องการการชุมนุมประท้วง โดยเฉพาะอย่างยิ่งผู้ซึ่งถูกคุกคามและต้องทนทุกข์จากการกระทำของกลุ่มผู้ประท้วง แล้วนำมารายงานข่าว 



Why the discrepancy in source of information? Why the failure to report all of the government’s previous numerous attempts to negotiate or invitations for protesters to go home? Why no broadcasts shown of the myriad ways the red protesters have terrorized and harmed innocent civilians by burning their shops, enclosing burning tyres around apartment buildings, shooting glass marbles at civilians from high altitudes, attacking civilians in their cars, and worst of all, obstructing paramedics and ambulances carrying civilians injured by M79 grenade blasts during the Silom incident of April 24, 2010, thereby resulting in the sole civilian casualty? The entire timeline of events that have forced the government to take this difficult stance has been hugely and callously ignored in deference to the red ‘underdogs’. 


ทำไมจึงมีความแตกต่างในการนำเสนอข่าว (สองมาตรฐาน – ผู้แปล) ทำไมจึงไม่มีการรายงานข่าวความพยายามหลาย ๆ ครั้งของทางฝ่ายรัฐบาลที่จะเจรจาหรือเชิญผู้ชุมชุมให้กลับบ้าน ทำไมจึงไม่มีการรายงานวิธีการมากมายหลายอย่างที่เลวร้ายน่ากลัวที่กลุ่มผู้ประท้วงได้กระทำและเป็นอันตรายต่อประชาชนผู้บริสุทธิ์ ด้วยการเผาทำลายร้านค้า การเผายางรถยนต์รอบๆตึกอพาร์ทเมนท์ ยิงลูกแก้วเข้าสู่ประชาชนจากที่สูง ทำร้ายประชาชนในรถยนต์ และที่เลวร้ายที่สุดก็คือกีดขวางเจ้าหน้าที่ทางการแพทย์และรถพยาบาลที่กำลังลำเลียงผู้ได้รับบาดเจ็บจากกรณีการยิงระเบิด เอ็ม 79 ในพื้นที่การปะทะที่ถนนสีลม เมื่อวันที่ 24 เมษายน 2010 ซึ่งทำให้เกิดการสูญเสียชีวิตของประชาชน เหตุการณ์ที่เกิดขึ้นเป็นลำดับได้บีบบังคับให้ทางฝ่ายรัฐบาลต้องอยู่ในฐานะที่ยากลำบากที่จะต้องเมินต่อกลุ่มคนเสื้อแดง 



Mr. Rivers and Ms. Snider’s choice of sensational vocabulary and terminology in every newscast or news report, and choice of images to broadcast, has resulted in law-abiding soldiers and the heavily-pressured Thai government being painted in a negative, harsh, and oppressive light, whereas the genuinely violent and law-breaking arm of the anti-government protesters - who are directly responsible for overt acts of aggression not only against armed soldiers but also against helpless, unarmed civilians and law-abiding apolitical residents of this once blooming metropolis (and whose actions under American law would by now be classified as terrorist activities) – are portrayed as righteous freedom fighters deserving of worldwide sympathy and support. This has mislead the various international Human Rights watchdogs to believe the Thai government are sending trigger-happy soldiers out to ruthlessly murder unarmed civilians without just cause. 



สิ่งที่คุณริเวอร์และคุณซไนเดอร์เลือกใช้ ไม่ว่าจะเป็นภาษา คำศัพท์ หรือภาพที่กินใจในการนำเสนอข่าว ล้วนเป็นเรื่องของทหารที่ปฏิบัติตนตามกฎหมายและอยู่ภายใต้ภาวะกดดันอย่างสูง ฝ่ายรัฐบาลได้รับการป้ายสี วาดภาพในด้านลบ หยาบกระด้าง และปกครองอย่างกดขี่ ในขณะที่พวกที่มีความรุนแรงที่แท้จริงและละเมิดกฎหมายของกลุ่มคนที่ประท้วงรัฐบาล ผู้ซึ่งจะต้องรับผิดชอบอย่างแท้จริงต่อการกระทำที่เกินเลยและก้าวร้าว ไม่เพียงกระทำต่อทหารที่มีอาวุธเท่านั้น แต่ยังรวมถึงประชาชนที่สิ้นหวัง ปราศจากอาวุธ ผู้ที่ปฏิบัติตนภายใต้กฎหมาย และประชาชนที่อาศัยอยู่ในเขตที่ครั้งหนึ่งเป็นเขตที่รุ่งเรืองของมหานครแห่งนี้ (ซึ่งการปฏิบัติตนเช่นที่กล่าวมานี้ หากเป็นกฎหมายของอเมริกา จะถูกจัดเป็นกลุ่มผู้ก่อการร้ายทันที) – แต่คนกลุ่มนั้นกลับปฏิบัติตนเสมือนว่ามีอิสระที่จะต่อสู่ และได้รับความเห็นใจและการสนับสนุนจากประชาคมโลก นี่เป็นการทำให้เกิดความเข้าใจที่ผิด ๆ ในกลุ่มพิทักษ์สิทธิมนุษยชนระหว่างประเทศ ซึ่งเข้าใจว่ารัฐบาลไทยกำลังส่งทหารที่มีอาวุธเข้าไปเข่นฆ่าประชาชนโดยไม่มีเหตุอันควร 


As a current resident of "war zone" Bangkok who has experienced the effect of the Red protests first hand and is living in a state of constant terror and anxiety as to whether her family, friends, and home would get bombed or attacked by the hardcore anti-government vigilantes/paramilitary forces - I appeal to CNN's professional integrity to critically investigate and scrutinize the misinformed news reporting of your above-named correspondents. If they are incapable of obtaining genuine, authentic facts from any other source except the Red Protest leaders and red-sympathizing Thai translators or acquaintances, or from fellow non-Thai-speaking journalists who are similarly ignorant of Thai language, culture, history, and society, then perhaps CNN should consider reassigning field correspondents to Thailand. 


ในฐานะที่เป็นผู้ที่อาศัยอยู่ใน "เขตสงคราม" ของกรุงเทพ และมีประสบการณ์ตรงที่ได้รับผลกระทบจากกลุ่มผู้ประท้วงเสื้อแดงที่มีการข่มขู่อย่างต่อเนื่อง เรามีความกังวลว่าครอบครัวของเรา เพื่อนฝูง และบ้านเรือนของเราจะถูกระเบิดหรือถูกโจมตีจากกลุ่มหัวรุนแรงของกลุ่มคนที่ต่อต้านรัฐบาล กองกำลังต่าง ๆ ดิฉันอยากจะขอร้องให้ CNN ใช้จริยธรรมของวิชาชีพในการตรวจสอบอย่างถี่ถ้วน และพินิจพิเคราะห์ข่าวที่บิดเบือนจกการนำเสนอโดยผู้สื่อข่าวที่ได้พูดถึงข้างต้น หากพวกเขาไม่มีความสามารถในการหาข่าวที่เป็นจริงจากแหล่งข่าวอื่น ๆ นอกเหนือไปจากแกนนำคนเสื้อแดง และคนแปลที่เห็นอกเห็นใจฝ่ายเสื้อแดง หรือจากนักข่าวที่ไม่สามารถพูดภาษาไทยได้ ไม่รู้เรื่องวัฒนธรรม เมินเฉยต่อประวัติศาสตร์ และสภาวะทางสังคม และหากเป็นเช่นนั้นจริง ๆ CNN น่าจะหาผู้สื่อข่าวคนอื่นเข้ามาทำข่าวในประเทศไทย 



I implore and urge you to please take serious action to correct or reverse the grave injustice that has been done to the Thai nation, her government, and the majority of law-abiding Thai citizens and expatriate residents by having endorsed and widely circulated poorly researched and misrepresented news coverage of the current ongoing political unrest and escalating violence in Thailand. 

             

ดิฉันขออ้อนวอนและขอให้สำนักข่าวของท่านลงมือทำอย่างใดอย่างหนึ่งอย่างจริงจัง เพื่อแก้ไขความอยุติธรรมที่เกิดขึ้นกับประเทศไทย กับรัฐบาลไทย และประชาชนคนไทยส่วนใหญ่ซึ่งเป็นผู้ที่เคารพกฎหมาย รวมถึงชาวต่างชาติที่อาศัยอยู่ที่นี่ โดยการรายงานข่าวและงานวิจัยแย่ ๆ ซึ่งไม่ใช่ข้อเท็จจริงของสถานการณ์ไม่สงบที่เกิดขึ้น รวมถึงการรายงานความรุนแรงที่เกิดขึ้นจนเกินเลยเกินความเป็นจริง 



Copies of this open letter have also been distributed to other local as well as international news media and social networks for public information. Please feel free to contact me further should you require any additional concrete and reputable evidence in substantiation and corroboration of my complaints and claims stated hereinabove. 

             

สำเนาของจดหมายเปิดผนึกฉบับนี้จะมีการแจกจ่ายในประเทศไทย และในประชาคมโลก รวมถึงในเครือข่ายสังคมออนไลน์เพื่อเป็นข้อมูลให้กับคนทั่วไป กรุณาติดต่อดิฉันได้ทุกเมื่อหากท่านต้องการข้อมูลเฉพาะเพิ่มเติม หรือหลักฐานที่เชื่อถือได้ ที่เกี่ยวข้องกับเนื้อความที่ดิฉันเขียนมาทั้งหมดข้างต้น 


Thank you. 



Yours faithfully, 



Napas Na Pombejra, B.A., LL.B. (Lond.) 



Bangkok, Thailand 



May 17, 2010 


สำหรับ นภัส ณ ป้อมเพ็ชร์ จบการศึกษาจากคณะเศรษฐศาสตร์ จุฬาลงกรณ์มหาวิทยาลัย เกียรตินิยมอันดับ 1 เมื่อปี 2005 จากนั้น นภัส ณ ป้อมเพ็ชร์ ไปศึกษาต่อด้านกฎหมายที่ประเทศอังกฤษ และได้รับเกียรตินิยม เมื่อปี 2008 

ขอขอบคุณข้อมูลและภาพประกอบจาก 
ashitastudioclub.ning.com 
เครดิตจาก 
กระปุกดอทคอม

Unquote

I also have expressed my views in no uncertain terms to CNN.

To show my displeasure at CNN, I have unsubscribed from their daily newsletter and have told them why I have done so in that I am unable to trust the impartiality and objectivity of their news items and that their credibility has been seriously damaged as a result of these extremely bad reporting . At the same time, I have blocked their emails on my web filter and, if there was a way to block their news channel on TV, I would also do this. This is not just my opinion, many of my colleagues and friends have done likewise. They are really p---o--- with CNN.

If you feel the same way as I do, please register your displeasure with CNN in whatever way you so desire.

[shrekroma]

U dont trust CNN. U dont watch BBC. All the media is misleading ... well..

Then you should watch only Thai TV. It might stop your pain.

[Deeral]

"You are entitled to your own opinions...but not your own "facts"

opinions are based on critical thought - inferences etc derived from logical deduction etc from the information available - why would one consider that anyone is entitled to what they consider and opinion if it is not based on these criteria?

Wrong.

An opinion is NOT necessarily derived from logical deduction or critical thought - as we have seen countless times on this forum.

That is why they are called "opinions", and not "proofs" or "logical conclusions".

Correct Definition...

Opinion: a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty.

QED - I said that you are not ENTITLED to it as such - it is so sad that posters think that something like that is a worthy reply. you really don't seem to understand even the basics of a debate and real opinion.

I have posted on this subject but not anymore on this site the level of debate is WAY too low.

I really think that TV has degraded itself terribly in the last 2 months.

[Ulysses G.]

Sounds like you had a bad dream. Fox reported it superficially and went into no details.

[Mario2008]

Some off-topic posts deleted. This is not about the US or its president.

[brahmburgers]

And Barack Obama is a commie don't you know. wink.gif

No Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim Marxist self hating American. Most of the American people have now realized this and he will be replaced by a true conservative Republican in two years before he does irreparable damage to the country.

.....and Dick Cheney is waxing down his water board in his basement, grinning at the prospect of getting back to work.

Seriously though, we need a few waterboards put to use in Thailand. Let's find out who's funding the Reds and some of the other dirty little secrets they're hiding. Ok, maybe waterboards are too harsh (or are they too harsh for people who incite others to burn downtown Bkk? Hmmm, debatable). But professional interrogation and investigative skills are called for. Not the usual 'mai pen rai' Thai investigations that wind up overlooking or dismissing key evidence - afraid that anyone might lose face. Well, some Red face should be lost, when finding out who's behind the murders and the loss of major buildings in downtown Bangkok.

Too bad the ensuing legal wrangling will suck up such vast amounts of peoples' time, most of it paid by tax revenue - when that tax money could be better spent on cleaning the environment / or building some parks in a giant city with nearly no park space.

The amount of legal and investigative resources needed to deal with the messes the Shinawatre clan saddled on Thailand is gargantuan. The Shinawatres have sucked those Thai resources for several years past, and will continue to suck them for future years. They should be billed for those hundreds of thousands of hours - all devoted to the toxic (Thaksick) crap they keep churning out.

[jayboy]

The following is an open letter to CNN which has been written to several newspapers and to CNN, the BBC et al which I think sums up the feelings that, red shirt sympathisers here excepted, many of us feel about the reporting of a so-called professional journalists, Dan Rivers and Sarah Snider. The letter speaks for itself and to help those Thai readers, each paragraph has been translated into Thai by the author. The letter speaks for itself:

Bangkok Pundot has analysed this letter and THai Visa members can make up their own minds.

Suthichai at The Nation has tweeted this open letter to CNN is เด็ด (really good). The letter quickly spread through Facebook and Twitter.

It is a letter by Napas Na Pombejra on Facebook. Let's evaluate the claims:

Open Letter to CNN International

Share

Today at 4:19pm

Dear Sirs/Madams,

Recently, CNN Thailand Correspondents Dan Rivers and Sarah Snider have made me seriously reconsider your agency as a source for reliable and accurate unbiased news. As of this writing, over thousands of CNN’s viewers have already begun to question the accuracy and dependability of its reporting as regards events in Afghanistan, Haiti, Iraq, Iran, etc., in addition to Bangkok.

As a first-rate global news agency, CNN has an inherent professional duty to deliver all sides of the truth to the global public who have faithfully and sincerely placed their trust and reliance in you. Your news network, by its longtime transnational presence and extensive reach, has been put in a position of trust and care; CNN’s journalists, reporters, and researchers have a collective responsibility to follow the journalist's code and ethics to deliver and present facts from all facets of the story, not merely one-sided, shallow and sensational half-truths. The magnitude of harm or potential extent of damage that erroneous and fallacious news reporting can cause to (and exacerbate), not only a country’s internal state of affairs, economic well-being, and general international perception, but also the real lives and livelihood of the innocent and voiceless people of that nation, is enormous. CNN should not negligently discard its duty of care to the international populace by reporting single-sided or unverified facts and distorted truths drawn from superficial research, or display/distribute biased images which capture only one side of the actual event.

Mr. Rivers and Ms. Snider have NOT done their best under these life-threatening circumstances because many other foreign correspondents have done better. All of Mr. Rivers and Ms. Sniders' quotes and statements seem to have been solely taken from the anti-government protest leaders or their followers/sympathizers. Yet, all details about the government’s position have come from secondary resources. No direct interviews with government officials have been shown; no interviews or witness statements from ordinary Bangkok residents or civilians unaffiliated with the protesters, particularly those who have been harassed by or suffered at the hands of the protesters, have been circulated.

BP: All details of the government have come from secondary resources? Check this CNN link for an interview with Finance Minister Korn. Click on this CNN link for an interview with Panitan. All within the last couple of days. CNN have shown such interviews repeatedly so don't know how she could have missed it.

[uPDATE: Look on the left-hand side of the page on the respective links and you will see Korn and Panitan's face respectively. Click on that and the video will pop up.]

On those effected by protest "Battle for downtown Bangkok hits economy". On statements by those effected, CNN:

The threat of violence silenced normally bustling streets, trapping people in their homes and shutting down offices, schools and shopping centers.

A spokesman for the Royal Thai Police said a group of doctors were traveling to a Buddhist temple Monday to provide medical care to women and children who have taken shelter there.

Supatra Jenstitvong-Assavasukee said the violence has forced her manufacturing and trade business to move meetings with clients to the outskirts of the city, shut down her son's school and stopped her from shopping downtown.

"Everyone hopes for it to be over really soon. It's really destroying a lot of things," she said.

Beth Saengow, a school administrator who lives in Bangkok, said it seems like the violence is escalating.

"Usually Thailand is a peaceful country ... I'm sure it will affect the tourism. I'm just worried about the economy," she said.

BP: This link and click on the video of "Thai Residents Living in Chaos", CNN interviews someone who is stuck in the zone and doesn't know where to go. This doesn't count as none. It is three instances in the last 4 days. CNN only does so many stories on Thailand.

The letter continues:

Why the discrepancy in source of information? Why the failure to report all of the government’s previous numerous attempts to negotiate or invitations for protesters to go home? Why no broadcasts shown of the myriad ways the red protesters have terrorized and harmed innocent civilians by burning their shops, enclosing burning tyres around apartment buildings, shooting glass marbles at civilians from high altitudes, attacking civilians in their cars, and worst of all, obstructing paramedics and ambulances carrying civilians injured by M79 grenade blasts during the Silom incident of April 24, 2010, thereby resulting in the sole civilian casualty? The entire timeline of events that have forced the government to take this difficult stance has been hugely and callously ignored in deference to the red ‘underdogs’.

BP: Sole civilian casaulty? What about the 34 civilians killed since Thursday? This story quotes Abhisit as stating:

Abhisit said the government's actions were necessary to prevent Thailand from sinking into lawlessness. He said security forces and his administration are attempting to counter a small group of protesters among the opposition Red Shirts trying to foment civil war.

"The government proposed a reconciliation plan but it was rejected. This benefits no one. It only benefits a small group which wants to harm the country and lead it to civil war. It is unbelievable that they use peoples' lives for political advantage," he said.

BP: For the other parts, she provides a myraid of links, but not specifically in relation to her accusations of things that CNN is not showing.

The letter continues:

Mr. Rivers and Ms. Snider’s choice of sensational vocabulary and terminology in every newscast or news report, and choice of images to broadcast, has resulted in law-abiding soldiers and the heavily-pressured Thai government being painted in a negative, harsh, and oppressive light, whereas the genuinely violent and law-breaking arm of the anti-government protesters - who are directly responsible for overt acts of aggression not only against armed soldiers but also against helpless, unarmed civilians and law-abiding apolitical residents of this once blooming metropolis (and whose actions under American law would by now be classified as terrorist activities) – are portrayed as righteous freedom fighters deserving of worldwide sympathy and support. This has mislead the various international Human Rights watchdogs to believe the Thai government are sending trigger-happy soldiers out to ruthlessly murder unarmed civilians without just cause.

BP: It is hard to critique this as she doesn't point to any particular report. You know when you critique someone, you usually quote what you think is wrong with something, but she just asserts something without backing anything she states up.

BP: Then below she provides an assortment of evidence without specificially stating or hightlighting how any of the below are better. For example, for the NYT article in (1), does she want CNN to report this:

One photographer reported seeing two dead or wounded victims unattended in a street for a long period because of the fear of snipers. The military was not allowing ambulances to pass a roadblock, the photographer said, which meant that rescue workers had to run in a crouch with stretchers to carry out the victims.

BP: Obstructing ambulances. This what she accuses the red shirts of doing, but the links she supplies states one instance of the military doing this.

Now, perhaps she is right that CNN's coverage is "one-sided, shallow and sensational half-truths", but she does not demonstrate this.

Her complaint seems to be about CNN going to the street and seeing the fighting on the ground which is something the foreign media do a much better job of than the Thai media (some exceptions in the Thai media like ThaiPBS and TNN). For example, Bangkok Street Battles. CNN see guys using slingshots. CNN see unarmed people and rescue workers shot. CNN then goes to the army side to see what the army is shooting, you can see the army shooting quite freely. The part that the CNN gets wrong is when they state that two soldiers had died. Only one soldier has been killed.

[mazeltov]

What they have done wrong? Care to explain?

Are you new to Thailand?

I've discovered the advanced search function on this forum is very useful. You could start there with their names.

I asked if you were able to explain. Looks like you are not, you just bring gossip talk to spin some propaganda here.

But i found a couple of forum post, all made by a banned poster named 'sriracha john', propaganda BS, that has zero credibility for me and i would be not surprised if you and that banned member 'sriracha john' are the same person.

I think you're probably right. There have been quite a few recent additions to the forum making absurdly pro-Demo, anti-Red Shirt posts prolifically in the News Clippings threads, and not posting anywhere else on the forum. My money's on the individuals behind banned posters Sriracha John and Plus being most of these new additions, using an assortment of IP addresses. They were certainly obsessed enough with posting their propaganda (before they got banned) to be wacko enough to do this, and the distinctive styles of both seem to fit most of the new additions.

Only posting in news clipping isn't that suspicious, i think many are here just for the discussion on politics and for other question like visa problems or computer/internet problems is the search engine indeed useful.

But okay, that other member KMUTT is now banned too, must have a reason. And i agree there are members who posting propaganda here or an extreme one-sided view repeating gossip and rumours and a lot of half-truth.

anyway, all their propaganda fails if they are not able to explain. a phrase like 'use the search function' or 'you can google that' will convince nobody. only those with the same bias and prejudice will see no problem. but they lost credebility in the eyes of the people coming here for seeking information.

[lannarebirth]

The massive weapons cache's suddenly being found by government sources defies belief. I followed the SWAT team through the temple with two dogs. There was a third dog working in a separate part of the temple. I watched the SWAT team check every monks quarters and clear them. I watched them clear each part of the temple. By the time the temple had been declared "cleared" they had found a bucket of slingshots, and a handful of ping-pong "bombs" and fire crackers.

By the time I left the temple they had had not searched the well though and it is claimed some munitions were found there. As to that point I cannot comment as I did not look in the well.

However, having also searched very thoroughly prior to the SWAT team arriving I am amazed at the hundreds of rounds of linked ammunition claimed to have been found.

Personally I saw handguns on two occasions - once at San Liame Din Daeng in the hands of local hoons and once at Lumphini Park in the hands of a black suited red-shirts guard.

The vast majority of the "arts and crafts" munitions displayed by CRES is designed for machine guns. The red-shirts had no machine guns. It should noted that the ammunition displayed shows every fifth round as being a tracer round.

I also very thoroughly searched the backstage area on Wednesday night prior to the army arriving (did not arrive until Thursday afternoon) and found no weapons or munitions of any kind. My search included the leaders rest room, the VIP area and under the stage.

During the army advance into the red-shirt protest area I spent considerable time at Sarasin Rd. There were no sounds of machine gun fire or M79 or M67 grenades exploding. During the military advance I only once saw a person with a handgun (as noted above). I also walked through and inspected many of the tents along Rajadmiri Road leading back to the stage and found only a few shell casings in the medical tent at Sarasin Rd. The casing indicated they were from the Thai Army comprising 5.56mm rounds and the distinctive opaque 00-buckshot cartridges being used.

While I won't say the red-shirts did not have any weapons, the great lie being told by the Thai government now should be recognized for what it is.

I'm not sure who to believe, a discredited "photojournalist" or the Luang Por of the temple in question:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...a-30130368.html

[mazeltov]

Maybe. Maybe not, but there are plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers, so it does not really matter all that much.

Ulysses, could you please give us a link to these "plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers"?

I just havn't seen any! only a couple of grainy videos of protesters with one or two hand guns.

Proof please

this is one if the most revealing one of all the plenty of videos of some whatever shirts have been spotted with a weapon

Between 0:11 - 0:19 you can see a person in civilian clothes, t-shirt and shorts, armed with a rifle and probably also shooting. Similar to the clips with a sighting of one of the 'terrorists'. But the problem here is that he is together with regular army troops, soldiers in combat gear, Abhisits security forces.

Need any additional proof?

[rubl]

I asked if you were able to explain. Looks like you are not, you just bring gossip talk to spin some propaganda here.

But i found a couple of forum post, all made by a banned poster named 'sriracha john', propaganda BS, that has zero credibility for me and i would be not surprised if you and that banned member 'sriracha john' are the same person.

I think you're probably right. There have been quite a few recent additions to the forum making absurdly pro-Demo, anti-Red Shirt posts prolifically in the News Clippings threads, and not posting anywhere else on the forum. My money's on the individuals behind banned posters Sriracha John and Plus being most of these new additions, using an assortment of IP addresses. They were certainly obsessed enough with posting their propaganda (before they got banned) to be wacko enough to do this, and the distinctive styles of both seem to fit most of the new additions.

Only posting in news clipping isn't that suspicious, i think many are here just for the discussion on politics and for other question like visa problems or computer/internet problems is the search engine indeed useful.

But okay, that other member KMUTT is now banned too, must have a reason. And i agree there are members who posting propaganda here or an extreme one-sided view repeating gossip and rumours and a lot of half-truth.

anyway, all their propaganda fails if they are not able to explain. a phrase like 'use the search function' or 'you can google that' will convince nobody. only those with the same bias and prejudice will see no problem. but they lost credebility in the eyes of the people coming here for seeking information.

Continuing from some days ago, still at it I see, mazeltov. Dubious questions, seemingly interested, friend of some banned guy. When last you did a bit of thorough research? I think I've only seen you asking others to provide details.

As you should be aware, this is aforum where things are discussed, not proven.. Lots of opinions, the obvious always needs to be pointed out. Who looses credebility by telling this way you can see for yourself? I don't even want to convince any in this forum, just try to open peoples eyes.

Which reminds me, how come you're not banned yet

[way2muchcoffee]

Maybe. Maybe not, but there are plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers, so it does not really matter all that much.

Ulysses, could you please give us a link to these "plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers"?

I just havn't seen any! only a couple of grainy videos of protesters with one or two hand guns.

Proof please

this is one if the most revealing one of all the plenty of videos of some whatever shirts have been spotted with a weapon

Between 0:11 - 0:19 you can see a person in civilian clothes, t-shirt and shorts, armed with a rifle and probably also shooting. Similar to the clips with a sighting of one of the 'terrorists'. But the problem here is that he is together with regular army troops, soldiers in combat gear, Abhisits security forces.

Need any additional proof?

What exactly to you think this is proof of mazeltov?

[mazeltov]

Maybe. Maybe not, but there are plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers, so it does not really matter all that much.

Ulysses, could you please give us a link to these "plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers"?

I just havn't seen any! only a couple of grainy videos of protesters with one or two hand guns.

Proof please

this is one if the most revealing one of all the plenty of videos of some whatever shirts have been spotted with a weapon

Between 0:11 - 0:19 you can see a person in civilian clothes, t-shirt and shorts, armed with a rifle and probably also shooting. Similar to the clips with a sighting of one of the 'terrorists'. But the problem here is that he is together with regular army troops, soldiers in combat gear, Abhisits security forces.

Need any additional proof?

What exactly to you think this is proof of mazeltov?

'Livinginexile' wanted to see videos of dudes with automatic assault rifles. This is one. They exist. Clearly you can see - it is not only the army or the security forces that are equipped with such kind of weapons, there are also the unknown forces that fire around with assault rifles. The dude in the video is probably one of the terrorists who shot and kill the people.

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

To show my displeasure at CNN, I have unsubscribed from their daily newsletter and have told them why I have done so

<snip>

Well, that'll teach 'em.

[way2muchcoffee]

'Livinginexile' wanted to see videos of dudes with automatic assault rifles. This is one. They exist. Clearly you can see - it is not only the army or the security forces that are equipped with such kind of weapons, there are also the unknown forces that fire around with assault rifles. The dude in the video is probably one of the terrorists who shot and kill the people.

Ok. Thanks for your explanation. It is certainly plausible.

There are other equally plausible explanations for that video. It was announced multiple times publicly that the government had placed undercover 'spies' amongst the redshirts. If one of those military spies was doing recon and scouting, it would make sense that he would meet a team of soldiers to lead them to a suitable location for an operation. In this case he would need to carry weapons for protection while working with the uniformed soldiers. Later he would discard his weapons and blend back in with the demonstrators to do further recon work.

Part of the the problem is that we see many video clips, but they are without context. The camera can only point to one place at a time and so we are left guessing as to what the real circumstances were. This forces us to speculate. This speculation will lead most people to make conclusions that are in line with their own biases. I am including myself here too. It is an undeniable fact that two rational and highly intelligent people will look at the same evidence and come to very different conclusions.

Edited May 28, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[mazeltov]

'Livinginexile' wanted to see videos of dudes with automatic assault rifles. This is one. They exist. Clearly you can see - it is not only the army or the security forces that are equipped with such kind of weapons, there are also the unknown forces that fire around with assault rifles. The dude in the video is probably one of the terrorists who shot and kill the people.

Ok. Thanks for your explanation. It is certainly plausible.

There are other equally plausible explanations for that video. It was announced multiple times publicly that the government had placed undercover 'spies' amongst the redshirts. If one of those military spies was doing recon and scouting, it would make sense that he would meet a team of soldiers to lead them to a suitable location for an operation. In this case he would need to carry weapons for protection while working with the uniformed soldiers. Later he would discard his weapons and blend back in with the demonstrators to do further recon work.

Part of the the problem is that we see many video clips, but they are without context. The camera can only point to one place at a time and so we are left guessing as to what the real circumstances were. This forces us to speculate. This speculation will lead most people to make conclusions that are in line with their own biases. I am including myself here too. It is an undeniable fact that two rational and highly intelligent people will look at the same evidence and come to very different conclusions.

of course the undercover spy only fires his rifle when he have a chat with the security forces who defending their lives. when he goes back to the red shirt camp he is all unarmed and does no harm and nothing wrong at all.

[Fishbucket]

Amnesty International and Dan Rivers, as was Johnathon Head, are bang on the money.

They know who the murdering tyrant despots are and have quite rightly fingered them.

Fancy, murdering your own in cold blood on the streets of the capital, and expecting to be considered democratic in International eyes.

[TAWP]

Amnesty International and Dan Rivers, as was Johnathon Head, are bang on the money.

They know who the murdering tyrant despots are and have quite rightly fingered them.

Fancy, murdering your own in cold blood on the streets of the capital, and expecting to be considered democratic in International eyes.

Nonsense, maybe you should read this topic: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Unmasked-Tha...ck-t370124.html

Nothing 'peaceful' about their actions and part of the reason the violence escalated.

[chuang]

6 undetonated carbombs found at Rajprasong, meant to completely blow up the area

Head Forensic Department Dr Pornthip Rojanasunan disclosed that car bombs were found by security task force in 4 Rajprasong areas. The bombs were put together in a manner almost ready to detonate, she said. Government Spokesperson Dr Panithan Watanayakorn pointed out that they were meant to blow up Rajprasong area.

Earlier today, Dr Pornthip had found almost 1,000 suspected explosive materials scattered around Rajprasong. DNA cross matching is currently in progress.

-- Tan Network 2010-05-22

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Only morons will believe what the government said.... sad to say more than 80 civilians have been killed by the army and not much people give a dam_n...

still claiming they were killed by the red shirts....it sucks...

[rabo]

'Livinginexile' wanted to see videos of dudes with automatic assault rifles. This is one. They exist. Clearly you can see - it is not only the army or the security forces that are equipped with such kind of weapons, there are also the unknown forces that fire around with assault rifles. The dude in the video is probably one of the terrorists who shot and kill the people.

Ok. Thanks for your explanation. It is certainly plausible.

There are other equally plausible explanations for that video. It was announced multiple times publicly that the government had placed undercover 'spies' amongst the redshirts. If one of those military spies was doing recon and scouting, it would make sense that he would meet a team of soldiers to lead them to a suitable location for an operation. In this case he would need to carry weapons for protection while working with the uniformed soldiers. Later he would discard his weapons and blend back in with the demonstrators to do further recon work.

Part of the the problem is that we see many video clips, but they are without context. The camera can only point to one place at a time and so we are left guessing as to what the real circumstances were. This forces us to speculate. This speculation will lead most people to make conclusions that are in line with their own biases. I am including myself here too. It is an undeniable fact that two rational and highly intelligent people will look at the same evidence and come to very different conclusions.

A random single image out of context, accompanied by false information and an unsubstantiated claim that a person is "probably one of the terrorists who shot and kill the people". This is used to counter without logic another person's valid point that there are many images and videos of of unidentified gunmen.

Note as far as can be seen in this quality video:

1. The mystery guy is wearing baggy spotted camouflage like pants, not shorts, image is black and white.

2. He does not fire a gun.

3. The soldier he is with fires a rubber bullet shotgun weapon down the street, his M16 is at his side.

4. No evidence of live rounds being fired.

So, a white tee shirt is enough to incriminate someone as a terrorist. He is probably just a soldier who's lost his shirt, maybe his lady stole it last night as a souvenir.

Left, first soldier as he progresses, right first and second soldiers coming out the door (what's inside???)

I don't want to use the word propaganda, so I'm at a loss for words to describe this.

Edited May 29, 2010 by rabo

[rubl]

Only morons will believe what the government said.... sad to say more than 80 civilians have been killed by the army and not much people give a dam_n...

still claiming they were killed by the red shirts....it sucks...

Only morons will spread lies, unfounded rumour, anything.

The army didn't kill all 88 dead of the last two months, check your facts!

[clown]

Ulysses, could you please give us a link to these "plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers"?

I just havn't seen any! only a couple of grainy videos of protesters with one or two hand guns.

Proof please

this is one if the most revealing one of all the plenty of videos of some whatever shirts have been spotted with a weapon

Between 0:11 - 0:19 you can see a person in civilian clothes, t-shirt and shorts, armed with a rifle and probably also shooting. Similar to the clips with a sighting of one of the 'terrorists'. But the problem here is that he is together with regular army troops, soldiers in combat gear, Abhisits security forces.

Need any additional proof?

What exactly to you think this is proof of mazeltov?

'Livinginexile' wanted to see videos of dudes with automatic assault rifles. This is one. They exist. Clearly you can see - it is not only the army or the security forces that are equipped with such kind of weapons, there are also the unknown forces that fire around with assault rifles. The dude in the video is probably one of the terrorists who shot and kill the people.

If the guy in civilian clothing and with the assault rifle is a terrorist, why is he running together with the army? Shooting in the same direction as the army? Why isn't the army arresting him? I'd say this guy is with the army, sorry. A 4th grader can see that.

[Fishbucket]

The illegal thai government can propoganda all they like.

They waste their time because everybody knows there were no army killed, and the country is run by a military junta .

Its all buffalosh*it

[SpoliaOpima]

6 undetonated carbombs found at Rajprasong, meant to completely blow up the area

Head Forensic Department Dr Pornthip Rojanasunan disclosed that car bombs were found by security task force in 4 Rajprasong areas. The bombs were put together in a manner almost ready to detonate, she said. Government Spokesperson Dr Panithan Watanayakorn pointed out that they were meant to blow up Rajprasong area.

Earlier today, Dr Pornthip had found almost 1,000 suspected explosive materials scattered around Rajprasong. DNA cross matching is currently in progress.

-- Tan Network 2010-05-22

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

One of the cars was found on Soi Sarasin a few doors down from my apt building. Thai residents noticed the battered-looking car had been parked in a no-parking zone for several days. They looked inside and the back seat was piled with black clothing and hoods, so they notified the police. The police arrived an hour later and found explosives under the clothing and in the boot. They cleared the area, then called in a special squad who covered the car in bomb-suppression blankets and blew it up.

[Token]

I personally take offense at your insinuating statement. I am an American, an extremely successful businessman, lived in Thailand for the past 5 years in great happiness and comfort, and believe that all things considered President Bush did well as our CINC during some pretty tough times, notably 9-11 and its aftermath. He is revered by all US military personnel for his hands-on, caring leadership. How dare you call us 'losers"? If you are as stupid and juvenile as it appears, I suggest you move to Somalia where your head-in-the-sand kind will be very useful in further ruining that country. We expats must remain impartial politically who sympathize with the plight of the Thai people instead of whiners who refuse to drop the rhetoric and hate...on either side of the divide. Please leave Thailand; we don't need LOSERS LIKE YOURSELF here.

The problem with George Bush was that he never spoke a word of English in all the 8 years he was in office.