Thai Government Accuses Reds Over Huge Weapons Cache

[philw]

The massive weapons cache's suddenly being found by government sources defies belief. I followed the SWAT team through the temple with two dogs. There was a third dog working in a separate part of the temple. I watched the SWAT team check every monks quarters and clear them. I watched them clear each part of the temple. By the time the temple had been declared "cleared" they had found a bucket of slingshots, and a handful of ping-pong "bombs" and fire crackers.

By the time I left the temple they had had not searched the well though and it is claimed some munitions were found there. As to that point I cannot comment as I did not look in the well.

However, having also searched very thoroughly prior to the SWAT team arriving I am amazed at the hundreds of rounds of linked ammunition claimed to have been found.

Personally I saw handguns on two occasions - once at San Liame Din Daeng in the hands of local hoons and once at Lumphini Park in the hands of a black suited red-shirts guard.

The vast majority of the "arts and crafts" munitions displayed by CRES is designed for machine guns. The red-shirts had no machine guns. It should noted that the ammunition displayed shows every fifth round as being a tracer round.

I also very thoroughly searched the backstage area on Wednesday night prior to the army arriving (did not arrive until Thursday afternoon) and found no weapons or munitions of any kind. My search included the leaders rest room, the VIP area and under the stage.

During the army advance into the red-shirt protest area I spent considerable time at Sarasin Rd. There were no sounds of machine gun fire or M79 or M67 grenades exploding. During the military advance I only once saw a person with a handgun (as noted above). I also walked through and inspected many of the tents along Rajadmiri Road leading back to the stage and found only a few shell casings in the medical tent at Sarasin Rd. The casing indicated they were from the Thai Army comprising 5.56mm rounds and the distinctive opaque 00-buckshot cartridges being used.

While I won't say the red-shirts did not have any weapons, the great lie being told by the Thai government now should be recognized for what it is.

Thank you !!

A simple, clear factual, substantiated and eye witness account.

Appreciated and recognise your bravery in being there.

Take care.

Phil

[Ulysses G.]

Maybe. Maybe not, but there are plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers, so it does not really matter all that much.

Ulysses, could you please give us a link to these "plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers"?

I just havn't seen any! only a couple of grainy videos of protesters with one or two hand guns.

Proof please

Do your own search. There are tons of them.

[gerrythepoet]

Unarmed Reds, Amnesty International decrying the treatment of the poor innocents - BS, pure BS. Armed militants who should be treated as enemy combatants, if shown to have participated in a violent way.

The following are two excerpts form an article in the AsiaTimesonlone.com

Quote

Fog of war

The government has said it aims to separate ''terrorists'' from the ordinary protesters, while some red shirts have thanked the anonymous black-clad assailants for coming to their defense against state security forces. Therdpoum, a former member of parliament under Thaksin's original Thai Rak Thai party, says there has been obfuscation and propaganda on both sides of the conflict.

"The people who are the real planners, not the people up on stage making protest speeches, these people probably keep a very low profile, but they must calculate that aggression is vital," he said. "Aggression paralyzes and divides opponents. This is what we were taught, this is how a smaller force can defeat overwhelming power. The message was: divide and conquer."

Whether the UDD's shadowy armed wing consists of mafia thugs, unemployed irregulars or disaffected regular soldiers, they must be capable of ruthless and focused violence, he said.

Therdpoum, born in humble circumstances in northeastern Thailand, was a hotel union organizer who fled to the communist underground in 1975 to oppose a brutal right wing government. Many hundreds of the country's most energetic students and intellectuals did the same. Most, like Therdpoum, later renounced the ideology.

His five-year odyssey with the Communist Party of Thailand (CPT) included a three-month period in Hanoi in the heady period following the unification of Vietnam under communist rule. There, Therdpoum and a handful of hand-picked Thai activists, like prominent student leader Seksan Prasertkun, as well as current UDD leaders Weng Tochirakan and Jaran Dittapichai, were drilled in Maoist revolutionary theory.

The five tactics they learned for unseating a government included: divide your enemies; form a united front; use provocative violence; secure the loyalty of people inside the ruling regime; and, finally, win over the army.

"That is what we have seen. The government people have been quarrelling about what to do. Some senior figures have a divided loyalty. The army and the police cannot move. Provocative violence has been very successful," said Therdpoum, referring to the UDD's campaign to topple Abhisit's government.

"The tactic is to keep saying that you are a peace-loving people. The many factions folded into the united front [uDD] organization are not told what the real strategy is because they might not agree and they might not act their part convincingly," he added.

A generation ago, the eager young communists in Thailand's underground movement, many of whom now play major roles on Thailand's political stage, were told that propaganda should be blunt, simple and repeated incessantly to be effective. The UDD has similarly shunned hard policy debates in favor of simple credos of justice denied and the hypocrisy of elites.

"The red shirt people have been told over and over that greedy people in authority have denied them justice and their fair share. They have been pumped full of toy-town leftism and told to hate every institution that has held this country together. I worry that the bitterness and hatred produced by this propaganda now runs so deep it will cause tension and problems for a long time," Therdpoum said.

"Many of them are now absolutely convinced that Thaksin was the best leader in Thai history, that he was a kind and generous man who holds the solution to all their problems. They don't need a program - they just need a new Thai state with Thaksin in charge. It has become very emotional - as it was designed to be," he added.

Unquote

Quote

Ignorance over knowledge

Other observers believe that the anti-Thaksin, yellow-garbed People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protest group that occupied Government House for several weeks and closed down Bangkok's airports for 10 days in 2008 helped to show the UDD how effective determined and prolonged protests could be. To be sure, there were violent moments during the PAD's many protests, launched first to remove Thaksin and later his proxy governments, but not to the extent of the current shadowy campaign of bombings and shootings.

The red shirts consist of many passive supporters, many active ones and, now, a hand-picked core of "professional revolutionaries" chosen for their loyalty and street smarts, according to Therdpoum. Behind them are many "deep secrets and hidden messages" that are revealed to only a privileged few in the movement, while an even smaller number know the entire strategy, he claimed.

"Old communists know that when it comes to revolution, ignorance is much more powerful than knowledge," Therdpoum said.

It is thus ironic that more former communists are currently on side with the royalist PAD than the supposedly pro-poor UDD, which is simultaneously striving to restore the billionaire Thaksin's wealth and power. So, too, is the fact that while the UDD has called with revolutionary zeal for a new political order, the Thaksin-aligned Puea Thai party that will contest the next elections is packed with old-style and corruption-tainted patronage politicians.

Therdpoum believes that the UDD's sincere left-wing members are using Thaksin and anticipate the opportunity to eventually dump his personal agenda in favor of the establishment of a more socialist society. Some of the former communists who took up arms and fled into the jungle in the 1970s and 1980s and were once in Thaksin's inner circle include Prommin Lertsuridej, Phumtham Wechayachai, Sutham Saengprathum, Phinit Jarusombat, Adisorn Piangket and Kriangkamon Laohapairot.

Its unclear how many of those former communists are now active from behind-the-scenes in the UDD's planning and strategy. Some media have recently published photographs of the UDD's three main stage leaders, Veera Musigapong, Natthawut Saikua and Jatuporn Prompan, with the exiled Thaksin in what appear to be planning sessions leading up to the current protests. It is debatable, however, how much real power they wield over broad strategy and tactics; Therdpoum, for one, discounts them as "showmen".

UDD organizer Jaran Dittapichai told this correspondent that the protest group had adopted "Mao Zedong's method of thinking" and some of his techniques, including the establishment of a united front. "I was a communist and several leaders were former communists ... but the red shirt people don't like communism or socialism. We use his principles to build up our front and to work with people who are not red shirts, but who are fighting for democracy like us."

He, like other UDD leaders, has consistently denied that the group is behind the mysterious bombing campaign that has coincided with its protest activities. "There is no third hand. There is only the first hand and the second hand ... the government side and our people," Jaran said.

"Before we started we discussed the [potential] problem of the third hand and who they might be. We were worried that someone might throw a bomb at us or shoot at us. We still have good luck - no one comes to throw a bomb [at us]."

Unquote

This says it all really. Thaksin was basically financing a communist-led revolution. Now we know why the red shirts chose red as their colour.

I think the news coming out now provides overwhelming evidence of a very serious communist plot to overthrow the monarchy and the state as it is today and to turn Thailand into a communist state. Thaksin and his baggage would probably have been dumped.

Given the mounting evidence, Thaksin and the red shirt leaders should deserve the death sentence for their actions. The probable outcome is very likely to be life sentences, given the current government's ideas on capital punishment.

Let the flames from pro-red contributors begin!!! Your responses will be seen for what they are. Given all the evidence to the contrary, they will seem to be defending the indefensible.

Excellent article that lays out the blueprint of the chaos initiated by the "Red Leaders"

No one can deny that there are major issues to be addressed in Thai sociey however the Red Leaders especially Arisman and the now demised SD manipulated the poor, the naive labourers, farmers and the som tam women to destabilise the Nation.

The Govt are at fault in their inactions in not acting sooner, in truth a law needs to be put into place that allows a peaceful protest with a time limit, such as marching down a high street but occuping property, land must be a no no.

Thanks for the article it clearly points to a tough penalty for the Red Leaders.

Please find Arisman, his escape is troubling.

[philw]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Please read my post above. The article quoted was from an independent Asean online newspaper and which quotes former members of Thaksin's regime. I would believe them rather than some farang who has just come out of the woodwork.

Very few soldiers were shot!

There is no official record detailing the cause of soldiers injuries.

Why? because the report would clearly show all injuries were caused either by "friendly fire" or the result of normal crowd control.

The Thai army murdered over 100 of their own people.

Thats a fact!

So explain the soldiers injured by grenades and killed with guns?

Just because they were better protected, doesn't mean they were the only ones firing.

Nor also does it mean they were not being fired on.

And there is absolutely NO PROOF that all deaths were caused by the army.

And there are several insances where other parties were clearly the offencive opporatives.

So your post is just proaganda... desperate propaganda.

Merde alors, you can't even get the numbers right. Hang it up.

Think you should accept the reality, as have most Thai people I know , that the Thai military targeted, shot and killed Thai people.

In cold blood.

It's pretty clear, I think.

We will all pay the consequences later because this problem is not going away.

I wish it was, but I don't think it will.

ph

[rubl]

So explain the soldiers injured by grenades and killed with guns?

Just because they were better protected, doesn't mean they were the only ones firing.

Nor also does it mean they were not being fired on.

And there is absolutely NO PROOF that all deaths were caused by the army.

And there are several insances where other parties were clearly the offencive opporatives.

So your post is just proaganda... desperate propaganda.

Merde alors, you can't even get the numbers right. Hang it up.

Think you should accept the reality, as have most Thai people I know , that the Thai military targeted, shot and killed Thai people.

In cold blood.

It's pretty clear, I think.

We will all pay the consequences later because this problem is not going away.

I wish it was, but I don't think it will.

ph

Accept reality I do, but that means I believe too many people just 'know' what happened, almost as if they were there. You don't have to accept my reality, but don't fight it, it's mine, personal, you may look but not touch.

[snorkelador]

The massive weapons cache's suddenly being found by government sources defies belief. I followed the SWAT team through the temple with two dogs. There was a third dog working in a separate part of the temple. I watched the SWAT team check every monks quarters and clear them. I watched them clear each part of the temple. By the time the temple had been declared "cleared" they had found a bucket of slingshots, and a handful of ping-pong "bombs" and fire crackers.

By the time I left the temple they had had not searched the well though and it is claimed some munitions were found there. As to that point I cannot comment as I did not look in the well.

However, having also searched very thoroughly prior to the SWAT team arriving I am amazed at the hundreds of rounds of linked ammunition claimed to have been found.

Personally I saw handguns on two occasions - once at San Liame Din Daeng in the hands of local hoons and once at Lumphini Park in the hands of a black suited red-shirts guard.

The vast majority of the "arts and crafts" munitions displayed by CRES is designed for machine guns. The red-shirts had no machine guns. It should noted that the ammunition displayed shows every fifth round as being a tracer round.

I also very thoroughly searched the backstage area on Wednesday night prior to the army arriving (did not arrive until Thursday afternoon) and found no weapons or munitions of any kind. My search included the leaders rest room, the VIP area and under the stage.

During the army advance into the red-shirt protest area I spent considerable time at Sarasin Rd. There were no sounds of machine gun fire or M79 or M67 grenades exploding. During the military advance I only once saw a person with a handgun (as noted above). I also walked through and inspected many of the tents along Rajadmiri Road leading back to the stage and found only a few shell casings in the medical tent at Sarasin Rd. The casing indicated they were from the Thai Army comprising 5.56mm rounds and the distinctive opaque 00-buckshot cartridges being used.

While I won't say the red-shirts did not have any weapons, the great lie being told by the Thai government now should be recognized for what it is.

Would you not think that the fact that those weapons were found a few days after the rally was over could indicate the possibility that they were actually hidden a bit better than your searching skills? If you hide an arsenal like this somewhere you would probably make an effort to do so and not hide it in a location where any half eager press dude could find them easily. I mean hey, you did not even bother to look in the well...

[animatic]

momentumwaves >I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Please read my post above. The article quoted was from an independent Asean online newspaper and which quotes former members of Thaksin's regime. I would believe them rather than some farang who has just come out of the woodwork.

Very few soldiers were shot!

There is no official record detailing the cause of soldiers injuries.

Why? because the report would clearly show all injuries were caused either by "friendly fire" or the result of normal crowd control.

The Thai army murdered over 100 of their own people.

Thats a fact!

So explain the soldiers injured by grenades and killed with guns?

Just because they were better protected, doesn't mean they were the only ones firing.

Nor also does it mean they were not being fired on.

And there is absolutely NO PROOF that all deaths were caused by the army.

And there are several insances where other parties were clearly the offencive opporatives.

So your post is just proaganda... desperate propaganda.

Merde alors, you can't even get the numbers right. Hang it up.

Think you should accept the reality, as have most Thai people I know , that the Thai military targeted, shot and killed Thai people.

In cold blood.

It's pretty clear, I think.

We will all pay the consequences later because this problem is not going away.

I wish it was, but I don't think it will.

ph

Well it seems most 'Thai people that you know' are true red shirt supporters.

And that says a lot about your bias and pseudo-reality based commentary.

You guys playing tag team disinformation tango tonight?

[Insight]

Maybe. Maybe not, but there are plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers, so it does not really matter all that much.

Ulysses, could you please give us a link to these "plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers"?

I just havn't seen any! only a couple of grainy videos of protesters with one or two hand guns.

Proof please

Okay http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8691486.stm

And this is from the much-criticised BBC

[jdinasia]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Please read my post above. The article quoted was from an independent Asean online newspaper and which quotes former members of Thaksin's regime. I would believe them rather than some farang who has just come out of the woodwork.

Very few soldiers were shot!

There is no official record detailing the cause of soldiers injuries.

Why? because the report would clearly show all injuries were caused either by "friendly fire" or the result of normal crowd control.

The Thai army murdered over 100 of their own people.

Thats a fact!

Hmmmm

The difference between "facts" and "opinions" seems to elude you.

I am sure some people (even including the 10 y/o that died) did so due to weapons fired by Thai troops. That however is my OPINION. Facts, IF they are ever ascertained, will not be available for some time. That the reds could have killed some or most of the people that died is a FACT. Who is responsible for the deaths? I think a court of law would likely say that the reds carry the majority of the guilt.

[Siripon]

Hopefully CCN and the BBC will broadcast translations of the UDD leaders exorting their followers to burn Bangkok, not only Arisaman but also Nattawut and Jatupon.

[way2muchcoffee]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Please read my post above. The article quoted was from an independent Asean online newspaper and which quotes former members of Thaksin's regime. I would believe them rather than some farang who has just come out of the woodwork.

Very few soldiers were shot!

There is no official record detailing the cause of soldiers injuries.

Why? because the report would clearly show all injuries were caused either by "friendly fire" or the result of normal crowd control.

The Thai army murdered over 100 of their own people.

Thats a fact!

When there have only been 85 deaths reported over the entire 2 months, including 11 deaths amongst security forces, it leaves your 'facts' open to serious scrutiny.

Edited May 23, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Thai at Heart]

The massive weapons cache's suddenly being found by government sources defies belief. I followed the SWAT team through the temple with two dogs. There was a third dog working in a separate part of the temple. I watched the SWAT team check every monks quarters and clear them. I watched them clear each part of the temple. By the time the temple had been declared "cleared" they had found a bucket of slingshots, and a handful of ping-pong "bombs" and fire crackers.

By the time I left the temple they had had not searched the well though and it is claimed some munitions were found there. As to that point I cannot comment as I did not look in the well.

However, having also searched very thoroughly prior to the SWAT team arriving I am amazed at the hundreds of rounds of linked ammunition claimed to have been found.

Personally I saw handguns on two occasions - once at San Liame Din Daeng in the hands of local hoons and once at Lumphini Park in the hands of a black suited red-shirts guard.

The vast majority of the "arts and crafts" munitions displayed by CRES is designed for machine guns. The red-shirts had no machine guns. It should noted that the ammunition displayed shows every fifth round as being a tracer round.

I also very thoroughly searched the backstage area on Wednesday night prior to the army arriving (did not arrive until Thursday afternoon) and found no weapons or munitions of any kind. My search included the leaders rest room, the VIP area and under the stage.

During the army advance into the red-shirt protest area I spent considerable time at Sarasin Rd. There were no sounds of machine gun fire or M79 or M67 grenades exploding. During the military advance I only once saw a person with a handgun (as noted above). I also walked through and inspected many of the tents along Rajadmiri Road leading back to the stage and found only a few shell casings in the medical tent at Sarasin Rd. The casing indicated they were from the Thai Army comprising 5.56mm rounds and the distinctive opaque 00-buckshot cartridges being used.

While I won't say the red-shirts did not have any weapons, the great lie being told by the Thai government now should be recognized for what it is.

Would you not think that the fact that those weapons were found a few days after the rally was over could indicate the possibility that they were actually hidden a bit better than your searching skills? If you hide an arsenal like this somewhere you would probably make an effort to do so and not hide it in a location where any half eager press dude could find them easily. I mean hey, you did not even bother to look in the well...

And not one person responsible for removing and collating all these weapons thought that a picture in situ (or various situs) might be worthwhile. Coupled with all the independent and accredited journalists who were in the area at the time, none of whom managed to get a photo of the "HUGE" cache of weapons.

The burden of proof is with the government. Where is the photographic evidence of the "huge" cache?

I wonder if anyone dared to ask the army or Suthep this question during the press conference? Or did they wonder that the entire group would laugh the house down when he said that "we didn't have any cameras?", or "hey don't you believe me, I'm the government don't you know."

[jackspratt]

The massive weapons cache's suddenly being found by government sources defies belief. I followed the SWAT team through the temple with two dogs. There was a third dog working in a separate part of the temple. I watched the SWAT team check every monks quarters and clear them. I watched them clear each part of the temple. By the time the temple had been declared "cleared" they had found a bucket of slingshots, and a handful of ping-pong "bombs" and fire crackers.

By the time I left the temple they had had not searched the well though and it is claimed some munitions were found there. As to that point I cannot comment as I did not look in the well.

However, having also searched very thoroughly prior to the SWAT team arriving I am amazed at the hundreds of rounds of linked ammunition claimed to have been found.

Personally I saw handguns on two occasions - once at San Liame Din Daeng in the hands of local hoons and once at Lumphini Park in the hands of a black suited red-shirts guard.

The vast majority of the "arts and crafts" munitions displayed by CRES is designed for machine guns. The red-shirts had no machine guns. It should noted that the ammunition displayed shows every fifth round as being a tracer round.

I also very thoroughly searched the backstage area on Wednesday night prior to the army arriving (did not arrive until Thursday afternoon) and found no weapons or munitions of any kind. My search included the leaders rest room, the VIP area and under the stage.

During the army advance into the red-shirt protest area I spent considerable time at Sarasin Rd. There were no sounds of machine gun fire or M79 or M67 grenades exploding. During the military advance I only once saw a person with a handgun (as noted above). I also walked through and inspected many of the tents along Rajadmiri Road leading back to the stage and found only a few shell casings in the medical tent at Sarasin Rd. The casing indicated they were from the Thai Army comprising 5.56mm rounds and the distinctive opaque 00-buckshot cartridges being used.

While I won't say the red-shirts did not have any weapons, the great lie being told by the Thai government now should be recognized for what it is.

Thank you !!

A simple, clear factual, substantiated and eye witness account.

Appreciated and recognise your bravery in being there.

Take care.

Phil

I suggest you do a bit of research on Mr Journ before you accept everything he says at face value - and that includes going back to earlier demonstrations.

[Insight]

Here's something else from Stickman today explaining his change from being a neutral observer to - well - an opinion probably shared by many Bangkok residents now:

Any sympathies I had for the red shirts evaporated on the evening of April 23 when the skytrain station at Sala Daeng was attacked. I was in the Siam area at the time and despite traffic chaos and the public transport grinding to a halt, I raced to the Sala Daeng skytrain station to see things for myself, in what was my bravest, or perhaps most stupid hour.

What I saw that night turned me against the red shirts. At that point in time it was being (erroneously) reported that the M79 grenade attack had caused 5 deaths and more than 80 people had been injured, numbers that were later revised down markedly – I believe there was only one death. But one death is one too many, not that the red shirts seemed to think so. When I arrived the reds were partying and celebrating like there was no tomorrow. They were singing, dancing and celebrating like demented demons, lighting lanterns that were launched into the sky, lanterns that are usually saved for the most special holidays and events. Squealing in delight at others' misfortune – deaths at their hands – was something I just couldn't accept and from that moment on I looked at the reds in a different light.

www.stickmanweekly.com/StickmanBang...test-Review.htm - Well worth a read in full.

I remember whether the reds were actually cheering or not during this clash was debated intensely on this forum. Looks like we have another voice saying they actually were.

[animatic]

Statement by Phue Thai Party regarding the alleged discovery of war weapon at assembly site

blabla ... no need to rpeat all of this ... blabla

In denial and furthering the objectives of Thaksin. Wonder if Amsterdam wrote this.

The English of PTP statements has improved. Help from RobertA may explain their proficiency.

ROTFLOL, I had that thought too.

Now here's the rub...

they now have to deliver this in public forum

and actually understand what they are saying!

Their track record is Parliament is sub-useless.

And most of their manueverings are Sub-Rosa,

so par for the course.

[alexfishbed]

Any weapon is a tool. It is not as important as two factors which will really determine the course of the current conflict:

- The man weilding the weapon

- The underlying motivations

I think what's clear is that the protestors were interspersed with some men of military grade training- call them the black shirts or what you will. Their origins and numbers may be debatable but their existance is not. Till the government is clear that they have been neutralized- either physically or through disruption of their command and control structure, finding weapons will not be the end of this conflict.

As for motivations- if they were guns for hire- we may be in for good times as funding is choked off. But if there are more ideological reasons- never underestimate the power of Maoist propoganda and brainwashing- them we will see a resurgence. Weapons can be bought- and there are enough neighboring forces willing to help.

The wild card will be the future role of the Islamic insurgents in the South- if they take advantage of the army's stretched resources or form an alliance of convenience with these renegade forces, then we are certainly in for a fight.

So the weapons display makes for PR- am sure the army and intelligence agencies and focusing behind the scenes on resolving these questions.

[Ulysses G.]

The burden of proof is with the government. Where is the photographic evidence of the "huge" cache?

Go ahead. Nitpick away.

http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/Thai-...e-94654479.html

A Thai soldier arranges war weapons that authorities discovered and seized from an area where anti-government protesters have been occupied during a more than two months rally at a shopping center in Bangkok, 22 May 2010

Edited May 23, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[whybother]

Maybe. Maybe not, but there are plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers, so it does not really matter all that much.

Ulysses, could you please give us a link to these "plenty of videos of the blackshirts with automatic assault rifles and grenade launchers"?

I just havn't seen any! only a couple of grainy videos of protesters with one or two hand guns.

Proof please

Okay http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8691486.stm

And this is from the much-criticised BBC

I think this one is better at showing the red shirts "only having fire crackers". Watch at about 30 seconds.

[KhaoNiaw]

People keep saying why weren't any journalists around when the weapons turned up - but of course they were. Bancha_nna was tweeting photos while he was out there with the army as they searched:

http://tweetphoto.com/23280294

http://tweetphoto.com/23278782

Edited May 23, 2010 by KhaoNiaw

[Thai at Heart]

The burden of proof is with the government. Where is the photographic evidence of the "huge" cache?

Go ahead. Nitpick away.

http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/Thai-...e-94654479.html

A Thai soldier arranges war weapons that authorities discovered and seized from an area where anti-government protesters have been occupied during a more than two months rally at a shopping center in Bangkok, 22 May 2010

9 guns. And? The same picture (from a different angle) was shown right at the beginning of the thread, in what seems eons ago. There are private citizens in the world with larger private collections than that.

This is NOT a HUGE arms cache. A huge arms cache can arm, huge amounts of people. One gun with 1mn bullets can only be fired by one man.

I have stated previously why I would like to know and see exact evidence of how big the arms cache was. This is not to deny the reds had guns or absolve anyone of the wrongs that have been committed.

I am trying to help the government here to gain a bit of credibility. Someone please call Suthep and get him to post a list and some pictures of ALL that they found. Prove something. Even better, ask all of the soldiers who picked up the guns if any of them bothered to snap a sneaky pic.

As I said to someone else earlier in thread, thanks for the picture.

This is how you report an arms find

http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=125905

“

On Tuesday, forces from the Quick Response Department (QRD) found a large cache north of Kut City,” Maj. Aziz al-Amara told Aswat al-Iraq news agency.

The cache contained 174 mortar shells of 60mm caliber, five mortars of 120mm caliber, 41 explosive belts, 17 rockets, 3kg of C4 explosives, four Austrian-made shells, etc, according to the official.

Kut, the capital city of Wassit province, lies 180 km southeast of Baghdad.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/136829

Edited May 23, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[rubl]

The burden of proof is with the government. Where is the photographic evidence of the "huge" cache?

Go ahead. Nitpick away.

http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/Thai-...e-94654479.html

A Thai soldier arranges war weapons that authorities discovered and seized from an area where anti-government protesters have been occupied during a more than two months rally at a shopping center in Bangkok, 22 May 2010

As one poster said while there I didn't see anything, I wonder what to believe. My own intelligency or some-else stupidity. While cleaning BKK streets some more home-made bombs were found, the hard stuff had been found or carried off by its owners. I wasn't there, couldn't make photo's, but who would have believed me anyway, they weren't there.

[whybother]

9 guns. And? The same picture (from a different angle) was shown right at the beginning of the thread, in what seems eons ago. There are private citizens in the world with larger private collections than that.

This is NOT a HUGE arms cache. A huge arms cache can arm, huge amounts of people. One gun with 1mn bullets can only be fired by one man.

I have stated previously why I would like to know and see exact evidence of how big the arms cache was. This is not to deny the reds had guns or absolve anyone of the wrongs that have been committed.

I am trying to help the government here to gain a bit of credibility. Someone please call Suthep and get him to post a list and some pictures of ALL that they found. Prove something. Even better, ask all of the soldiers who picked up the guns if any of them bothered to snap a sneaky pic.

As I said to someone else earlier in thread, thanks for the picture.

For "peaceful, unarmed protestors", it's pretty big.

Who is using "huge" and "massive"? The government or the media? Or is it just a translation issue?

[lannarebirth]

The massive weapons cache's suddenly being found by government sources defies belief. I followed the SWAT team through the temple with two dogs. There was a third dog working in a separate part of the temple. I watched the SWAT team check every monks quarters and clear them. I watched them clear each part of the temple. By the time the temple had been declared "cleared" they had found a bucket of slingshots, and a handful of ping-pong "bombs" and fire crackers.

By the time I left the temple they had had not searched the well though and it is claimed some munitions were found there. As to that point I cannot comment as I did not look in the well.

However, having also searched very thoroughly prior to the SWAT team arriving I am amazed at the hundreds of rounds of linked ammunition claimed to have been found.

Personally I saw handguns on two occasions - once at San Liame Din Daeng in the hands of local hoons and once at Lumphini Park in the hands of a black suited red-shirts guard.

The vast majority of the "arts and crafts" munitions displayed by CRES is designed for machine guns. The red-shirts had no machine guns. It should noted that the ammunition displayed shows every fifth round as being a tracer round.

I also very thoroughly searched the backstage area on Wednesday night prior to the army arriving (did not arrive until Thursday afternoon) and found no weapons or munitions of any kind. My search included the leaders rest room, the VIP area and under the stage.

During the army advance into the red-shirt protest area I spent considerable time at Sarasin Rd. There were no sounds of machine gun fire or M79 or M67 grenades exploding. During the military advance I only once saw a person with a handgun (as noted above). I also walked through and inspected many of the tents along Rajadmiri Road leading back to the stage and found only a few shell casings in the medical tent at Sarasin Rd. The casing indicated they were from the Thai Army comprising 5.56mm rounds and the distinctive opaque 00-buckshot cartridges being used.

While I won't say the red-shirts did not have any weapons, the great lie being told by the Thai government now should be recognized for what it is.

So are you saying the grenade shrapnel and assault weapons wounds suffered by the killed and injured soldiers were "friendly fire"?

[Thai at Heart]

9 guns. And? The same picture (from a different angle) was shown right at the beginning of the thread, in what seems eons ago. There are private citizens in the world with larger private collections than that.

This is NOT a HUGE arms cache. A huge arms cache can arm, huge amounts of people. One gun with 1mn bullets can only be fired by one man.

I have stated previously why I would like to know and see exact evidence of how big the arms cache was. This is not to deny the reds had guns or absolve anyone of the wrongs that have been committed.

I am trying to help the government here to gain a bit of credibility. Someone please call Suthep and get him to post a list and some pictures of ALL that they found. Prove something. Even better, ask all of the soldiers who picked up the guns if any of them bothered to snap a sneaky pic.

As I said to someone else earlier in thread, thanks for the picture.

For "peaceful, unarmed protestors", it's pretty big.

Who is using "huge" and "massive"? The government or the media? Or is it just a translation issue?

Um, the title of the thread, which comes from the Nation itself.

[animatic]

As is the denial of readily available, and widely distributed evidence from neutral sources.

Without a doubt.

But why would true believers want facts and reality to cloud their world view.

Not as much fun with divergent facts sticking their snouts in your philosophical lunch box.

[animatic]

9 guns. And? The same picture (from a different angle) was shown right at the beginning of the thread, in what seems eons ago. There are private citizens in the world with larger private collections than that.

This is NOT a HUGE arms cache. A huge arms cache can arm, huge amounts of people. One gun with 1mn bullets can only be fired by one man.

I have stated previously why I would like to know and see exact evidence of how big the arms cache was. This is not to deny the reds had guns or absolve anyone of the wrongs that have been committed.

I am trying to help the government here to gain a bit of credibility. Someone please call Suthep and get him to post a list and some pictures of ALL that they found. Prove something. Even better, ask all of the soldiers who picked up the guns if any of them bothered to snap a sneaky pic.

As I said to someone else earlier in thread, thanks for the picture.

For "peaceful, unarmed protestors", it's pretty big.

Who is using "huge" and "massive"? The government or the media? Or is it just a translation issue?

Um, the title of the thread, which comes from the Nation itself.

Agreed " Huge / Massive" is unnessecary hyperbole.

I tend to think the government is a trifle tired after a long ,long week or two.

But also, finese of english language isn't Sutheps forte.

Or he said it in Thais and the trnaslator is agrandizing to win brownie points.

There is enough to show bad intent and they should let it speak them.

[Crushdepth]

During the army advance into the red-shirt protest area I spent considerable time at Sarasin Rd. There were no sounds of machine gun fire or M79 or M67 grenades exploding. During the military advance I only once saw a person with a handgun (as noted above). I also walked through and inspected many of the tents along Rajadmiri Road leading back to the stage and found only a few shell casings in the medical tent at Sarasin Rd. The casing indicated they were from the Thai Army comprising 5.56mm rounds and the distinctive opaque 00-buckshot cartridges being used.

I'd like to offer an alternative eye-witness account. I have a good view of Rama IV from my apartment and we listening to gunfire and occasional grenades day and night over the course of the last week. On two nights I could actually see grenades lighting up the buildings around Soi Ngam Duphli during the fighting.

If my account doesn't appeal to you, there are no shortage of independent reports by foreign journalists sighting weapons and receiving gunfire and M79s from the protesters along Rama IV and elsewhere. Plenty of video showing grenades going off among the troops on April 10. How many bombs found today by people cleaning up the rubbish?

All faked by the government, just like the moon landing

[whybother]

For "peaceful, unarmed protestors", it's pretty big.

Who is using "huge" and "massive"? The government or the media? Or is it just a translation issue?

Um, the title of the thread, which comes from the Nation itself.

Yes. But did it come from the person who wrote the article (or the editor), or did the government say it?

[philw]

Well it seems most 'Thai people that you know' are true red shirt supporters.

And that says a lot about your bias and pseudo-reality based commentary.

You guys playing tag team disinformation tango tonight?

animatic, please answer yes or no.

Did Thai soldiers , under orders of course, shoot Thai people ??

Were some or any of those people unarmed ??

And by the way, I have no sympathy at all for the "red" cause or actions, so your response is both stupid and insulting.

phil

[jdinasia]

During the army advance into the red-shirt protest area I spent considerable time at Sarasin Rd. There were no sounds of machine gun fire or M79 or M67 grenades exploding. During the military advance I only once saw a person with a handgun (as noted above). I also walked through and inspected many of the tents along Rajadmiri Road leading back to the stage and found only a few shell casings in the medical tent at Sarasin Rd. The casing indicated they were from the Thai Army comprising 5.56mm rounds and the distinctive opaque 00-buckshot cartridges being used.

I'd like to offer an alternative eye-witness account. I have a good view of Rama IV from my apartment and we listening to gunfire and occasional grenades day and night over the course of the last week. On two nights I could actually see grenades lighting up the buildings around Soi Ngam Duphli during the fighting.

If my account doesn't appeal to you, there are no shortage of independent reports by foreign journalists sighting weapons and receiving gunfire and M79s from the protesters along Rama IV and elsewhere. Plenty of video showing grenades going off among the troops on April 10. How many bombs found today by people cleaning up the rubbish?

All faked by the government, just like the moon landing

BBC AlJazeera and CNN ALL reported on firefights ..... by definition that is gunfire going both ways.

Our friend is "pulling a Weng" , like Weng's most recent gaff when confronted by pics of armed redshirts. The again what he said about the kid being lifted above the tires ..........

Phil ---- people died. Some most likely at the hands of the army. Some very likely at the hands of the reds to create martyrs (Sae Daeng's Ronin) ---

Fact --- the reds were armed. Fact they were warned for weeks that they were violating the law and warned to leave.

Fact--- until the 19th the troops didn't push into the "red Zone --- and instead were actually DEFENDING. On the 19th they only pushed into Sarasin and Lumpini and NEVER went into Rachprasong until after the surrender.