Thai Medics And Rescue Teams Bemoan Soldiers' Lack Of Trust

[SamritT]

Sometime the opposite side plant evidence.

This one is caught on tape.

[monkeycircus]

@intothefuture i agree with you on many of your points, it just makes me feel really frustrated to see, over the past few days, people coming out with utter garbage, about red snipers shooting innocent people, targeting journalists, targetting medics....its just bullshit propaganda. and its not backed up by any evidence....because of the catastrophic way these protests ended, it seems to of allowed people to dehumanize a whole swath of society. I understand people are angry about the burning and looting,, but please....the people who did that have ensured the red shirt movement now lacks any real credibility, shame for them, as 99% of them had genuine peaceful and justified reasons to protest. If some people are so desperate to spin this situation that now the red shirts were shooting their own people in the temple, or shooting medics....even in a thread which the OP states the opposite as being the case, then they are spinning too far. No one side came out of this with any honor.

i disagree with your point about central world. if you have videos and people making speeches saying they are going to burn the city down. and you have tanks, and the protest has ended, i cant see why they couldnt of parked a couple of them outside the place and ensured it wasnt torched. They must of had intel that it was going to happen, and if they didnt then thats pathetic too. All i have seen in the past week is a series of unpleasant blaming and propaganda excercises, all of which is succesfully deflecting from the real tragedy - 75 civilians were killed, and 5 soldiers were killed. for all their massively armed black shirt terrorists, thats a pretty large discrepancy of casualties, and the fact people are trying to spin it just makes me fear for the future of the country. On these various boards over the past few days, you get the impression people are happy with killing and they want more. its sad, really sad.

[philw]

@intothefuture i agree with you on many of your points, it just makes me feel really frustrated to see, over the past few days, people coming out with utter garbage, about red snipers shooting innocent people, targeting journalists, targetting medics....its just bullshit propaganda. and its not backed up by any evidence....because of the catastrophic way these protests ended, it seems to of allowed people to dehumanize a whole swath of society. I understand people are angry about the burning and looting,, but please....the people who did that have ensured the red shirt movement now lacks any real credibility, shame for them, as 99% of them had genuine peaceful and justified reasons to protest. If some people are so desperate to spin this situation that now the red shirts were shooting their own people in the temple, or shooting medics....even in a thread which the OP states the opposite as being the case, then they are spinning too far. No one side came out of this with any honor.

i disagree with your point about central world. if you have videos and people making speeches saying they are going to burn the city down. and you have tanks, and the protest has ended, i cant see why they couldnt of parked a couple of them outside the place and ensured it wasnt torched. They must of had intel that it was going to happen, and if they didnt then thats pathetic too. All i have seen in the past week is a series of unpleasant blaming and propaganda excercises, all of which is succesfully deflecting from the real tragedy - 75 civilians were killed, and 5 soldiers were killed. for all their massively armed black shirt terrorists, thats a pretty large discrepancy of casualties, and the fact people are trying to spin it just makes me fear for the future of the country. On these various boards over the past few days, you get the impression people are happy with killing and they want more. its sad, really sad.

Thank you for some clarity of thought and some understanding of the larger implications.

Another posters analogy to Beirut might sadly prove correct.

Regardless of the opinions of the many posters here who seem to delight in death, destruction, insult and provocation, the next few months / years will probably be very bad for Thailand.

Nobody I know is optimistic and all agree that the recent disasters were avoidable.

The Govt is now admitting that hundreds of dead would have been acceptable !! ( source Time magazine( may 27th ) and the other Eng lang. paper.

ph

[mazeltov]

@intothefuture i agree with you on many of your points, it just makes me feel really frustrated to see, over the past few days, people coming out with utter garbage, about red snipers shooting innocent people, targeting journalists, targetting medics....its just bullshit propaganda. and its not backed up by any evidence....because of the catastrophic way these protests ended, it seems to of allowed people to dehumanize a whole swath of society. I understand people are angry about the burning and looting,, but please....the people who did that have ensured the red shirt movement now lacks any real credibility, shame for them, as 99% of them had genuine peaceful and justified reasons to protest. If some people are so desperate to spin this situation that now the red shirts were shooting their own people in the temple, or shooting medics....even in a thread which the OP states the opposite as being the case, then they are spinning too far. No one side came out of this with any honor.

i disagree with your point about central world. if you have videos and people making speeches saying they are going to burn the city down. and you have tanks, and the protest has ended, i cant see why they couldnt of parked a couple of them outside the place and ensured it wasnt torched. They must of had intel that it was going to happen, and if they didnt then thats pathetic too. All i have seen in the past week is a series of unpleasant blaming and propaganda excercises, all of which is succesfully deflecting from the real tragedy - 75 civilians were killed, and 5 soldiers were killed. for all their massively armed black shirt terrorists, thats a pretty large discrepancy of casualties, and the fact people are trying to spin it just makes me fear for the future of the country. On these various boards over the past few days, you get the impression people are happy with killing and they want more. its sad, really sad.

Thank you for some clarity of thought and some understanding of the larger implications.

Another posters analogy to Beirut might sadly prove correct.

Regardless of the opinions of the many posters here who seem to delight in death, destruction, insult and provocation, the next few months / years will probably be very bad for Thailand.

Nobody I know is optimistic and all agree that the recent disasters were avoidable.

The Govt is now admitting that hundreds of dead would have been acceptable !! ( source Time magazine( may 27th ) and the other Eng lang. paper.

ph

here is the link to The Time magazine article

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...1991888,00.html

the first paragraph:

This week's most depressing statistic comes courtesy of an unnamed Thai government source quoted in the Bangkok Post. The source reveals that the military had been willing to kill "between 200 and 300 people" and injure "several thousand" in its operation last week to storm the Red Shirt protest site in Bangkok's commercial district.

there is still a little difference between "The Govt is now admitting..." and "unnamed Thai government source quoted in ..." that sounds more like a leak or whistleblower or something in between that and an official statement.

and now, how much we can trust in the officially confirmed death toll?

[Old Man River]

The yellow say the medic ferry in food for the Red camp in their ambulance.

The red say the medic ferry in soldier and weapons in their ambulance.

Even the head of Chula Hospital lie about no snipers are allowed in his hospital under his watch. Who should I believe?

Yellow, Red, Suthep, Chula Hospital director, medics, or just trust no one?

You are right. Trust no one. There are some things we will never know and we need to move forward.

[termad]

In the many hours that I spent around the fighting and protests I never witnessed any tension or hostilities between the protesters and the ambulance personnel -- they were shoulder to shoulder like brothers in arms. I have video footage on the night of May 14th at Soi Rangnam where Vajira Hospital medical personnel attempted to rescue a dead person and being shot at multiple times, taking great risk, but made it out. On the very next day a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army, I believe in the same location. It seems to be an indication of media manipulation to say that Reds and Army "alike" were anti-medical personnel. Apparently this is a lie to cover up the truth.

Somtumtiger and hammerred, your comments show your lack of honesty as well as where your loyalty lies, duly noted.

Feel free to

1) Post your "video evidence".

2) Post your proof of who shot ANYONE but in particular the person you claim was shot by the army.

3) Please explain WHY the rescue personal quoted who has actual first hand knowledge tells a story that does not match yours?

I have read your posts and they tend to be filled with propoganda and claims that are unsubstantiated. Your bias is "duly noted"

Excuse me Your bias?

[termad]

Perhaps because the military knew that the Red's had orders to shoot medics - to generate more publicity

That was observed.

Not trust lost,

but protecting the emergency personnel from sniper attack.

One side needs to see minimal injuries, to get the job done,

the other side for maximum injuries to be seen, to get the job done.

Political needs at polar opposites.

Can YOU guess which is which?

So an Army sniper shooting somebody in the head is a minimal injury? So a nurse shot twice in the back at the temple from a position occupied by troops again is a minimal injury (She died in fact)

[termad]

Quote,

Dr Thangdan Pisalphong, of King Mongkut Hospital, said all sides should ensure the security of the rescue teams. He said when his team arrived to pick up a body they found a bomb next to the corpse. Quote

While the fighting was ongoing, I would think that all security measures were taken to minimize the loss of lives. Having paremdics killed would only add to the many problems they face.

You have to remember that the soldiers seen their fellow soldiers and police murdered by the red terrorist at a time when the soldiers were unarmed and the terrorist snipers used artillery. The soldiers are people who were only trying to do their job. They did not have choice about being there. The red terrorist and the red shirts had a choice. They could go home at any time they wanted to and if they would have done that at the beginning of the demonstrations when they first heard of pemeditated violence talk from their red leaders, then no lives would have been lost. The red shirts are 100% responsible for all lives lost.

My condolences to the wives and families of the soldiers and police who died.

The terrorist snipers used artillery? Why don't you accuse them of using helicopter gunships whilst your at it?

[Samuian]

there is still a little difference between "The Govt is now admitting..." and "unnamed Thai government source quoted in ..." that sounds more like a leak or whistleblower or something in between that and an official statement.

and now, how much we can trust in the officially confirmed death toll?

Yes and there is false Information "leaked" for deceit - (the Gleiwitz incident)....

and in this particular game we have much, much evidence linking a certain individual

to all the ruomours, "leaks", stories, the most freaking evidence of absolut honesty is,

that this person only makes "honest mistakes", because his wealth was so grand and

gained so fast that it was impossible for him to overlook it all EVEN that billons worth

of shares had been transferred (well, at least) into names of his driver, gardener, cook.. secretary

yes - he wanted them all to participate in his wealth - nope not ONE second did he think to conceal these

assets - he knew it was illegal - so he got acquitted by the judical system - isn't it nice?

But today the winds of change have shifted, he WAS FOUND guilty of abusing his

power while in office- well NOW the judiciary is "biased", "politically motivated" -

you go and figure - who is at fault and who needs to keep up this kind of rhetoric.. figure !

Want me to go further into analyzing the "red mob" and who gave birth to the idea,

the political background, the financing.... of this "peoples movement",

except the demonstrated willingness of some, to resort to incredible violence, was in many,

many aspects the same set up as that of the other movement,

that successfully ousted two previous governments and was the very base for his very own downfall....

it's like some sort of "deja vu" to me - and this is what puzzles me the most- it's blunt set up - and this carries the signature of someone who thinks since day 1 that he is infallible!

need any more help?

Just lean back and have a good look - retro all the way back to 1992 - okay start around 1996/7 - no?

Okay then start at 2001 - it's pretty close to the space odyssey, very, very close!

Someone even resembles somehow - HAL.... and his covert intentions, undiscovered by Bowman...

ah' well and that is history too...

[difos57]

Quote,

Dr Thangdan Pisalphong, of King Mongkut Hospital, said all sides should ensure the security of the rescue teams. He said when his team arrived to pick up a body they found a bomb next to the corpse. Quote

While the fighting was ongoing, I would think that all security measures were taken to minimize the loss of lives. Having paremdics killed would only add to the many problems they face.

You have to remember that the soldiers seen their fellow soldiers and police murdered by the red terrorist at a time when the soldiers were unarmed and the terrorist snipers used artillery. The soldiers are people who were only trying to do their job. They did not have choice about being there. The red terrorist and the red shirts had a choice. They could go home at any time they wanted to and if they would have done that at the beginning of the demonstrations when they first heard of pemeditated violence talk from their red leaders, then no lives would have been lost. The red shirts are 100% responsible for all lives lost.

My condolences to the wives and families of the soldiers and police who died.

The terrorist snipers used artillery? Why don't you accuse them of using helicopter gunships whilst your at it?

I am sure they would have if they could have but then the whole idea of all your red friends was to start a riot, have many people killed and massacred, Taksin style, frame the military and then go crying to the UN and human rights that the government should be thrown out. Instead, that didn't happen and Abhisit handeled the whole demonstration as humane as possible. Abhisit should be praised for how he hahandled the whole demonhstration.

[Democrat]

Quote,

Dr Thangdan Pisalphong, of King Mongkut Hospital, said all sides should ensure the security of the rescue teams. He said when his team arrived to pick up a body they found a bomb next to the corpse. Quote

While the fighting was ongoing, I would think that all security measures were taken to minimize the loss of lives. Having paremdics killed would only add to the many problems they face.

You have to remember that the soldiers seen their fellow soldiers and police murdered by the red terrorist at a time when the soldiers were unarmed and the terrorist snipers used artillery. The soldiers are people who were only trying to do their job. They did not have choice about being there. The red terrorist and the red shirts had a choice. They could go home at any time they wanted to and if they would have done that at the beginning of the demonstrations when they first heard of pemeditated violence talk from their red leaders, then no lives would have been lost. The red shirts are 100% responsible for all lives lost.

My condolences to the wives and families of the soldiers and police who died.

Difos you wrote 'at the beginning of the demonstrations'. Can you or anyone tell me when the UDD let it be known that they were going to hold a rally was the ISA invoked?

[Democrat]

Also in order to make it clear that I am not a part of a PR campaign, I did not witness who killed the dead man down near the front on the night of the 14th, and I didn't specifically state who did. I only describe who was clearly firing guns, the sounds and unison of their guns, the extreme obviousness of who they were, and the almost completely unarmed protesters that really were just hanging back behind obstacles watching (admittedly while a half dozen or so were up front at any one time trying to rile up their enemy). I do state however that I have no evidence -- and did not witness -- the killing or shooting of the man that was picked up by med personnel on the 14th.

Dear Portladstone, you start some previous posts with the statements that other posters are absolutley wrong and that their opinions were not based on facts. You consequently you keep talking about army firing and shooting (and by doing that insinuating) whereas at first you claim to have video material and then claim that you were no witness to whatever incident. Quite a contradiction, as you have no facts yourself and are purely guessing based on what you choose to believe.

kire B look it up on google. of course that is provided you are not in Thailand. "Pathumwan temple andrew buncombe". A reporter got shot alledgedly by the army. As they alledgedly shot a nurse helping a dying person in the temple grounds.

[Democrat]

In the many hours that I spent around the fighting and protests I never witnessed any tension or hostilities between the protesters and the ambulance personnel -- they were shoulder to shoulder like brothers in arms. I have video footage on the night of May 14th at Soi Rangnam where Vajira Hospital medical personnel attempted to rescue a dead person and being shot at multiple times, taking great risk, but made it out. On the very next day a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army, I believe in the same location. It seems to be an indication of media manipulation to say that Reds and Army "alike" were anti-medical personnel. Apparently this is a lie to cover up the truth.

Somtumtiger and hammerred, your comments show your lack of honesty as well as where your loyalty lies, duly noted.

"...............a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army............"

As you're not sure of the location, is it not reasonable to assume that you did not witness this event? Yet you blame the army, with no grounds for this belief given, or even a suggestion that it may not have been the army or that the incident was accidental.

Your red slip is showing, again.

Tell that to the journalists who saw the nurse shot in the back by the army at the Temple.

Andrew Buncombe JOURNALIST

[mazeltov]

In the many hours that I spent around the fighting and protests I never witnessed any tension or hostilities between the protesters and the ambulance personnel -- they were shoulder to shoulder like brothers in arms. I have video footage on the night of May 14th at Soi Rangnam where Vajira Hospital medical personnel attempted to rescue a dead person and being shot at multiple times, taking great risk, but made it out. On the very next day a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army, I believe in the same location. It seems to be an indication of media manipulation to say that Reds and Army "alike" were anti-medical personnel. Apparently this is a lie to cover up the truth.

Somtumtiger and hammerred, your comments show your lack of honesty as well as where your loyalty lies, duly noted.

"...............a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army............"

As you're not sure of the location, is it not reasonable to assume that you did not witness this event? Yet you blame the army, with no grounds for this belief given, or even a suggestion that it may not have been the army or that the incident was accidental.

Your red slip is showing, again.

Tell that to the journalists who saw the nurse shot in the back by the army at the Temple.

Andrew Buncombe JOURNALIST

jotman has an informative and extensive collection of different accounts and eyewitness reports about the incident at the Wat, including photos, videos and all the links to them and newspaper articles.

Killings at Wat Pathum Buddhist temple and medical tent

http://jotman.blogspot.com/2010/05/killing...ist-temple.html