I Want To Quit! But How ?

[Baaksida]

That's my problem: I want to change my job now, as I have only now the opportunity.

My current boss won't pay me until the end of month.

But: I have no real (written) contract, just assignments for work.

Can I just give one day's notice, or how many days ?

Or should I "make some trouble", so that they "give me the boot" and pay me out ??

This employer did lie to me when I applied for the job, as neither the hourly pay, nor the work assignments are conform with our agreement.

Any advice about how many days in advance I should give notice ?

[Indo-Siam]

Are you talking about a real job with a real work permit? Or illegal work?

If it is illegal work, there are no rules - he can do what he wants, including not pay you at all.

If it is legal work, then you can legally quit - but you must then bring your work permit to Labor Department, along with copy of your resignation letter (better to have "mutual termination agreement" letter from employer). And you will quickly have to leave the country - just enough time to secure an employment letter from new employer, to support a fresh Class B visa - and then come back and get work permit from new employer.

In any case, you are better off parting ways with present employer without drawing attention to yourself from Labor Department.

Indo-Siam

[kwiz117]

If it is legal work, then you can legally quit - but you must then bring your work permit to Labor Department, along with copy of your resignation letter (better to have "mutual termination agreement" letter from employer).  And you will quickly have to leave the country - just enough time to secure an employment letter from new employer, to support a fresh Class B visa - and then come back and get work permit from new employer.

In any case, you are better off parting ways with present employer without drawing attention to yourself from Labor Department.

Indo-Siam

Indo-Siam,

One small update to your explanation.

Actually you do not need to leave the country and come back. Also the present Employer has to handover a letter saying that you have resigned from the post [with the effective date] to the Labour Department or if it is a BOI to the BOI Officer.

As you say, the person has to go and handover the workpermit with the resignation letter.

Then they will cancel your original permited staying period in Thailand and re-stamp for another 7 days giving a chance for your new employer to submit the papers for your New Work Permit.

If bychance they can not finish filling the documents on time [within your permited stay in Thailand], then you should apply for another extension supporting with a letter from the new employer saying that they are working on your work permit application forms etc. etc.

I changed the job once in Thailand this year and this is from my experiance.

[but in my case, both Companies were BOI, so please update again if this is not the case for a Non-BOI]

.......................................

Baaksida,

With regarding the Illegal Working, both parties have done an Illegal thing. If get cought, you can loose your chances of getting a legal work permit in the future and sometimes even staying in Thiland.

It will be the same for your employer and they will have to pay Penalties and also can get Blacklisted when applying for work permits to recruit expats in the future.

So take Indo-Saim's advice and just try to finish this without going to Labor Department.

It is better to sacrifice your One Month Salary or even 1 Yr Salary in Thailand for the sake of getting a legal proper Job as it is not that easy.

Good luck,

[Indo-Siam]

Hi Kwiz -

I take no issue with your comments, but here is my read:

1) He isn't going to get letter from old employer acknowlewdging his resignation - probbably never, but certainly not within seven days.

2) His new employer is not going to be in position to submit application for new work permit within seven days.

This is my read on his likely situation. If this is correct, his arrangements will be sloppy, at best.

If new employer IS super-efficient, then he should get the second job added to his work permit as first step, and THEN resign from first job. Provided, of course, that he can secure blue WP booklet from first employer.

Changing jobs in Thailand in an antagonistic situation of any type has a really low chance of proceeding smoothly. Once you start looking like an "unusual case" to Labor Ministry, you REALLY need to have a smooth story (and an extremely legitimate new employer) to achieve success.

Indo-Siam

[kwiz117]

Hi Kwiz -

I take no issue with your comments, but here is my read:

1)  He isn't going to get letter from old employer acknowlewdging his resignation - probbably never, but certainly not within seven days.

2)  His new employer is not going to be in position to submit application for new work permit within seven days.

This is my read on his likely situation.  If this is correct, his arrangements will be sloppy, at best.

If new employer IS super-efficient, then he should get the second job added to his work permit as first step, and THEN resign from first job.  Provided, of course, that he can secure blue WP booklet from first employer.

Changing jobs in Thailand in an antagonistic situation of any type has a really low chance of proceeding smoothly.  Once you start looking like an "unusual case" to Labor Ministry, you REALLY need to have a smooth story (and an extremely legitimate new employer) to achieve success.

Indo-Siam

Quote:

"1) He isn't going to get letter from old employer acknowlewdging his resignation - probbably never, but certainly not within seven days."

If his present Job is legal, then his Present Employer has to do it within 7 days of his resignation. If they have not done it or they rejected to do it, then that Company has to pay 1,000 Bht for each day that they delay. YOu do not have to worry or think about that problem. Let them handle it and you just followup the proceedings with the Labour Department.

Quote:

If new employer IS super-efficient, then he should get the second job added to his work permit as first step, and THEN resign from first job. Provided, of course, that he can secure blue WP booklet from first employer.

No way...This can not be done. It is a must to resign from your Old Job and then Apply for the New Job. I also asked the same question before and I am quoting you the responce I got from one senior officer in the Labor Department.

This Job Changing process is very smooth and no problem if you follow the instructions clearly. I have not faced with any Problem what so ever.

Also your previous employer can not keep your Work Permit with them. It belongs to the Employee and not the Employer. According to the law, you should be able to submit it anytime that they wants you to do so.

All you have to do is, just forget about what your previous employer will do and just do your part correctly, inform the departments ontime, handover your Workpermit to them.

They will take care of your Previous Employer and your New Employer has to wait until your former Employer pay all penalties and inform the department about your resignation.

[This responce is valid if and only if you are in a legal job with a proper Work Permit.]

I think in this case, he is not having a legal work permit as he has mentioned of not having a proper contract.

I am wondering how he got the VISA?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I am wondering how he got the VISA?

If indeed he has got one at all....

[Indo-Siam]

Kwiz -

You are 100% wrong - a second job can be added to a work permit. My firm does this for qualifying clients, as a routine action.

He adds the second job, and then resigns from the first job.

Absolutely doable, with no risk of getting caught in a "seven day squeeze" at immigration.

I think this is very much the way to go, when first employer IS NOT COOPERATING - as is the opening premise of this thread. But - this approach won't work, if first employer is holding work permit booklet.

Indo-Siam

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Baaksida's urgency has abated. Did we frighten him off by using frightening terms like Visa and Work Permit ?

[kwiz117]

Kwiz -

You are 100% wrong - a second job can be added to a work permit. My firm does this for qualifying clients, as a routine action.

He adds the second job, and then resigns from the first job.

Absolutely doable, with no risk of getting caught in a "seven day squeeze" at immigration.

I think this is very much the way to go, when first employer IS NOT COOPERATING - as is the opening premise of this thread. But - this approach won't work, if first employer is holding work permit booklet.

Indo-Siam

Indo-Siam

I wrote to you about my experience and the Company I worked have many expats and also a separate division to handle work permits and visa's of expats.

I was suprised to read your above answer as I asked this possibility from them several times and they declined it. May be mis-communication or is this has anything to do with BOI regulations.

Anyway, as you say, they might have another way to add a 2nd job to the same work permit when an expat change the job from one Company to another.

If I change the job again and if I face with any problem, I will certainly call your Company for help.

Thanks for updating about this and hope someone else might re-confirm this again.

kwiz

[Indo-Siam]

Kwiz -

I have never had this approach used as a deliberate way to change jobs. Where we have added a second job to work permits has been when someone was employed by a company (typically a multinational), but also started his own private company, and wanted to be paid from that private enterprise as well (and stay legal). We have not specifically had a case where this involved the BOI One Stop Center. We have had clients who placed a second job on the work permit later cease to work for the old employer - in which that work permit had to be brought to the Work Permit Office to cancel the job that had been terminated. But the work permit remained valid for the second job - without any immigration issues.

So - my statement was in relation to the fact that you can register a second job - and in this manner effectively sidestep the immigration "squeeze" - at least as best as I can see. I am saying this in the assumption that Job #2 was a legitimate, fully valid job with an employer qualified to obtain a work permit - nothing fishy going on.

Cheers!

Indo-Siam

[lanny]

I don't think you need to worry about what the old employer does or does not do. I resigned from my previous job in January. My employer said I had to give him my work permit so he could submit it to the Labor Department. However, I thought it best to surrender my permit myself. I just went to the office and filled out a form, got a receipt, and left the permit.

At the time, I didn't have my new company organized -- the resignation was not a planned affair. I took me several months to get the company registered, a new visa issued, and a new work permit. With some advance preparation, most of that could have been avoided, but you live and learn.

I had always heard that your visa expires 7 days after the work permit is cancelled. However, when I went to immigration with the receipt from the Labor Department, they asked my what I expected them to do. Although I didn't have a long time on the visa, it was more than 7 days. I was told I could stay until the existing visa expired, then I had to get a new one.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I was told I could stay until the existing visa expired, then I had to get a new one.

Well done.... it sounds as though you handled yourself well, and the officer was impressed. .

[kwiz117]

I had always heard that your visa expires 7 days after the work permit is cancelled. However, when I went to immigration with the receipt from the Labor Department, they asked my what I expected them to do. Although I didn't have a long time on the visa, it was more than 7 days. I was told I could stay until the existing visa expired, then I had to get a new one.

I think they are flexible here. May depend on the officer who handles it.

This is my story.

I faced with a situation that my previous employer not filling the resignation letter to the BOI within the 7 days after my resignation. [by mistake]

The Visa officer [a lady at the one stop immigration] advised me not to hand-over my Work Permit on that day to avoid getting my Visa re-stamped for 7 days. [it is the law but they are not very strict when they know that you are in the process of a Job change or a Company setting up etc and you have done your part accordingly]. Also they have said that this is common among Thai people and many do not submit the notice of resignation papers on time.

Then she called my previous company and advised them to submit a notice of my resignation during the next working day and in fact have said that they can black list that Company [Not to issue WP again] if they do not do things on time as per the law.

Also she has suggested that Company to make the Date of my resignation reflecting as the Previous date so that they can avoid late filing penalty and I will not face with a problem of having to apply for a visa extension. [Actually it was an off the record discussion between two Thai’s]

So no problems thanks to a very good lady who understood the practicality of the system. [These things needs bit of luck as well]

Now, please do not think this will happen in all the cases. Better to read the WP book and follow the exact instructions. [Last page]

It does mention the 7 day requirement to hand-over the WP after resigning.

But even I was not aware about the re-stamping of the Visa until it happened to me.