Farangs, Hated Or Not?

[Ulysses G.]

I'd say most people here aren't smart enough to hate.

I guess that you were not watching what happened in Bangkok about two weeks ago.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[GM1955]

I'd say most people here aren't smart enough to hate.

I guess that you were not watching what happened in Bangkok about two weeks ago.

Yes, that certainly bought out the hate posts on this Forum, in their thousands.

You're talking about Farangs here right ?

[jdinasia]

Every country you mentioned is a welfare nation, meaning that immigrants can come swanning in from all over and instantly receive benefits, UNLIKE thailand, where we get bugger all.

Ah... but farangs in Thailand are not immigrants, and this is borne out by the thing they put in your passport....Non-Immigrant "O" or "B"........

And some people do get "benefits" on arrival....STD's, bank accounts getting emptied and being called hansome man......

Addtional benefits include paying over sin sot to your well connected, Thai-Chinese "inlaws" or the privilage of building houses in Isaan....

The benefits recieved by farangs in Thailand are endless...

Which of these events apply to your particular case?

[chaoyang]

I have long thought that the best thing that could happen is for all farangs to leave Thailand. Both Thais and foreigners could then chill out a bit and decide that they really do like each other after all (or not).

Of course I know that won't happen, but it seems the place is such a hothouse that people lose perspective. At the end of the day, farangs are foreign guests who are not necessarily liked but needed. From the farang standpoint, who really gives a sh*t if a bunch of people like you or not? Especially given that most of them have a very limited education and perspective. The quick answer is that they don't hate you, but they don't really care for you at all.

After more than a decade in Thailand, I made that decision and left, and am happy I did. Today I don't have to give a thought to whether my half-witted, drunken neighbor likes me or not, or whether his wife will start malicious rumors about my wife -- just for sport -- or whether the landlord who ripped me off really is connected to the police, etc., etc. For many years I found all that wildness interesting, but in the end I got completely na-bua (sick and tired) of it all.

But I still like to follow the news on Thailand and discuss it because I spent so many years there.

Edited June 2, 2010 by chaoyang

[gotglue]

Every country you mentioned is a welfare nation, meaning that immigrants can come swanning in from all over and instantly receive benefits, UNLIKE thailand, where we get bugger all.

Ah... but farangs in Thailand are not immigrants, and this is borne out by the thing they put in your passport....Non-Immigrant "O" or "B"........

And some people do get "benefits" on arrival....STD's, bank accounts getting emptied and being called hansome man......

Addtional benefits include paying over sin sot to your well connected, Thai-Chinese "inlaws" or the privilage of building houses in Isaan....

The benefits recieved by farangs in Thailand are endless...

Which of these events apply to your particular case?

Non Imm 'O' and handsome man undoubtedly

[George4]

Racism exists in every country in the world and Thailand is no different.

What differs is to what degree does it exist?

IMO In Thailand on a scale of 1 to 10 it would be about 3, in the USA about 9. and if your an Abo in Oz try about 10 out of 10. The Uk is getting there LOL

Not for one minute do I think Thais hate farang.........Most farang don't give a rats ass if you are an Aussie, American, African American, a Brit, a German, Swiss, French, Italian or whatever....we don't flock so basically we mix very well...........some cultures seem to flock together and take over the joint......as harmless as it might be it is always seen as a threat by locals and that's whether you stay in Texas or Thailand.

As much as it is not the aim of these people, it's what their culture and religion demands, unfortunately it brings instant dislike and mistrust...you could call it racism or fear of the unknown , but in the main it's self inflicted.

[caf]

If we are hated , or somewhat disliked, it seems the americans come high on thir list. Speech too loud, very opinionated.

Ask your Thai friends for their view.

[chaoyang]

.... Speech too loud, very opinionated.

Such a 'non-opinionated' view.

[MiG16]

Mudslinging, fighting and name calling has been deleted, along with one post that involved questionable material and one with comments on moderation.

If you can't discuss sensibly, don't waste your time writing for the trash bin.

all that while I was sleeping

Every country you mentioned is a welfare nation, meaning that immigrants can come swanning in from all over and instantly receive benefits, UNLIKE thailand, where we get bugger all.

I wonder what these countries are. perhaps I should move there? have heard some English friends complain about things being harder for them as expats returning home than for those who were new migrants.

(goes off to research how easy it is to migrate to and receive social welfare in the UK )

[mahtin]

(goes off to research how easy it is to migrate to and receive social welfare in the UK )

and?

sorry, bit premature, did not look at timestamp, mea culpa.

Edited June 2, 2010 by mahtin

[MiG16]

LOL

I dont think Id be wasting my sleep time researching that.

unlikely to yield any positive result (just a random uneducated guess.....)

[thaiman]

If we are hated , or somewhat disliked, it seems the americans come high on thir list. Speech too loud, very opinionated.

Ask your Thai friends for their view.

I've asked Thais and Americans aren't high on that list.

[GM1955]

If Thai's were to form their opinions of farangs based entirely on the comments written on the ThaiVisa forum, I believe Thai's would overwhelmingly develop a deep, intense hatred of farangs. The number of pricks on this forum, many of whom just find reasons to attack Thai's and Thailand, poorly represent the typical farangs in Thailand.

Have to agree with that.

I agree, we should all just become sheep in order to blend in and be accepted. Sing together now..

The sheep like mentality is already there James, most here diss Thailand at any given opportunity.

If a guy actually enjoys his life here ( Shock Horror ) he's called a Thai apologist or a wearer of rose tinted spectacles, some people are actually happy and content in Thailand.

I know one thing, if I didn't like Thailand, I'd leave, simple as that.

[caf]

.... Speech too loud, very opinionated.

Such a 'non-opinionated' view.

Correct. It is my non-opinionated view. ( Or perhaps you are being sarcastic - this is a predominantly american forum )

It is based on what most Thais tell me. It also depends of course how you phrase the question as Thais always want to give you the answer they think you want.

If you know anything about Thais they don't like high volume speech or "in the face" discussion.

Personally I would prefer that sort of openness, and their lack of it can be frustrating but can be dealt with.

But that is not the topic. I was venturing from comments I've received one element of their dislike

[maccaroni man]

.... Speech too loud, very opinionated.

Such a 'non-opinionated' view.

Correct. It is my non-opinionated view. ( Or perhaps you are being sarcastic - this is a predominantly american forum )

It is based on what most Thais tell me. It also depends of course how you phrase the question as Thais always want to give you the answer they think you want.

If you know anything about Thais they don't like high volume speech or "in the face" discussion.

Personally I would prefer that sort of openness, and their lack of it can be frustrating but can be dealt with.

But that is not the topic. I was venturing from comments I've received one element of their dislike

there is swome truth to what you say, but rather than volume imo it is more about the directness of the american culture, amercians want answers simple yes or no where europeans can be more inclined to be more accepting of Thai style non answer, answers. Having said this i would say the most wait staff appriciate the fact that americans tip, and are typically not cheap or low budget spenders. my observation has been the french and isrealis as the most disliked because of their complaining.

[gotglue]

.... Speech too loud, very opinionated.

Such a 'non-opinionated' view.

Correct. It is my non-opinionated view. ( Or perhaps you are being sarcastic - this is a predominantly american forum )

It is based on what most Thais tell me. It also depends of course how you phrase the question as Thais always want to give you the answer they think you want.

If you know anything about Thais they don't like high volume speech or "in the face" discussion.

Personally I would prefer that sort of openness, and their lack of it can be frustrating but can be dealt with.

But that is not the topic. I was venturing from comments I've received one element of their dislike

Hmmm, not sure if I agree with you there, about the volume thing anyway. You wanna be in my house when they all get together, you can't hear yourself think, and from I can make out, they LOVE an "in the face" discussion.

[simon43]

As a generalization, I think Thais are not so welcoming to 'farangs', when compared to a few years ago. When I lived in BKK in 2003, even those few years ago, I was welcomed with smiles everywhere - never any problems. But I guess that the increase in tourists and expats, and the exposure on TV/in shops to western consumer products and foods has made some Thais 'weary' of foreigners at times.

I have no problem at all if someone chooses to like or dislike me

The only thing that annoys me (still, after 8 years of living here) is the assumption that Thais are always right and foreigners are not. I find the inability to accept well-meaning advice a common trait amongst 'Thai' Thais. Interestingly, I find that 'Chinese' Thais are much more willing to listen and learn. This could simply be down to the level of education and some of the xenophobic rubbish that many Thais are taught in school.

In the tourist areas, many Thais (and expats/tourists) are rude and impatient. I think similar situations exist in all tourist destinations, and not just in Thailand.

Although I look around for alternatives to living and working in Thailand, and have considered job offers from Europe and China, at the end of the day Thailand still seems to be my best choice, in terms of cost of living, low tax rate, good weather and good food

Simon

[doggie888888]

To assess if Thais hate (if that is the right word?) farangs, just reverse the situation. You are in your home country and there are foreigners there...what types do you dislike, whether rightly or wrongly. Chances are you dislike the ones who don't bother to "learn the language", who form ghettoes and don't assimilate, who break the local laws, who show disrespect to local customs, who tells you what is wrong with your country. Are Thais really that different when it comes to foreigners in their country???

You are 100% correct

Especially irritating are the immigrants who tell you that your country should be changed to be more like the one they ran away from...

How many expats here complain that England, US, Australia, New Zealand, Germany etc have become unattractive through the appeasement of immigrants.

So should the Thais appease NON-IMMIGRANT farangs ???

[t.s]

while i haven't spent time dwelling on it, upon reflection my life is filled with thais who don't seem to give my presence here much more thought than they would that of anyone else.

[Berkshire]

If Thai's were to form their opinions of farangs based entirely on the comments written on the ThaiVisa forum, I believe Thai's would overwhelmingly develop a deep, intense hatred of farangs. The number of pricks on this forum, many of whom just find reasons to attack Thai's and Thailand, poorly represent the typical farangs in Thailand.

Have to agree with that.

I agree, we should all just become sheep in order to blend in and be accepted. Sing together now..

The sheep like mentality is already there James, most here diss Thailand at any given opportunity.

If a guy actually enjoys his life here ( Shock Horror ) he's called a Thai apologist or a wearer of rose tinted spectacles, some people are actually happy and content in Thailand.

I know one thing, if I didn't like Thailand, I'd leave, simple as that.

You're exactly right, GM. Those who hate it here (yet continue to toil away in misery) like nothing more than to be reminded that they're not the only ones. The old "misery loves company" sort of attitude. Anyone who disagrees is a threat because if you're happy here, it must mean that there's something wrong with THEM. So they try to place labels on said happy folks, e.g., Thai apologist, rose tinted glasses, etc. It's pretty pathetic, actually, because it's pretty obvious what they're trying to do. Their life sucks and they want your life to suck too, rah rah rah! Right James?

[Tejas]

As a generalization, I think Thais are not so welcoming to 'farangs', when compared to a few years ago. When I lived in BKK in 2003, even those few years ago, I was welcomed with smiles everywhere - never any problems. But I guess that the increase in tourists and expats, and the exposure on TV/in shops to western consumer products and foods has made some Thais 'weary' of foreigners at times.

I have no problem at all if someone chooses to like or dislike me

The only thing that annoys me (still, after 8 years of living here) is the assumption that Thais are always right and foreigners are not. I find the inability to accept well-meaning advice a common trait amongst 'Thai' Thais. Interestingly, I find that 'Chinese' Thais are much more willing to listen and learn. This could simply be down to the level of education and some of the xenophobic rubbish that many Thais are taught in school.

In the tourist areas, many Thais (and expats/tourists) are rude and impatient. I think similar situations exist in all tourist destinations, and not just in Thailand.

Although I look around for alternatives to living and working in Thailand, and have considered job offers from Europe and China, at the end of the day Thailand still seems to be my best choice, in terms of cost of living, low tax rate, good weather and good food

Simon

Simon........we agree on something.

The welcome mat was withdrawn at least ten years ago.

That is reflected in visa rules, social engineering policies, and behavior.

Over the past ten years I have lived in several countries, including Thailand.

Never..........NEVER........did I get the impression I was not welcome in China and Cambodia.

Yes, I did feel a bit unwelcome from some extremists in Indonesia and Malaysia, but that was a local situation (wrong place and the wrong time).

In general, I have to say that I felt more welcome in China, Cambodia, Indonesia and Malaysia.

Why? Because of what I said at the outset. Thai culture has changed.

The flow and content of information changed--much of that information xenophobic (even hate oriented in some cases).

A certain wanted terrorist was responsible for a lot of it.

One more thing: Your point about Thais always being right and foreigners always being wrong is right on target.

That is, in fact, one of the main reasons the country is not developing properly.

I can't tell you how many times I have presented a Thai with a "million dollar idea" only to receive this response: "You don't understand...........Thais don't........Thais would never.......etc."

Thailand could easily move to the next level on the ladder of development if it would embrace positive models outside of Thailand.

But Thais seem to always want to do things the Thai way...........which is often not efficient or incompatible with the global economy.

Nuff said..........culture always changes..........what we see today will not be what we see in the future.

Things could turn around for the better.

[bkkjames]

Berk:

I enjoy my life here with my Thai wife and son. That being said, I don't think I have to be the TV online PR guru for the country and I think it's pretty shallow to take issue with folks who don't see the Thai Glass as 100% full. Every country has it's + and -'s.

Example: Bangkok - some people can't stand it - noise, pollution, traffic, expense. While others love it's choices, action, modern conveniences and so on.

To be completely honest and excuse me if this is a bit too brunt, but I couldn't give a soi dog's itchy behind what other people think about what I think of the place.

[Ulysses G.]

You're exactly right, GM. Those who hate it here (yet continue to toil away in misery) like nothing more than to be reminded that they're not the only ones. The old "misery loves company" sort of attitude. Anyone who disagrees is a threat because if you're happy here, it must mean that there's something wrong with THEM. So they try to place labels on said happy folks, e.g., Thai apologist, rose tinted glasses, etc. It's pretty pathetic, actually, because it's pretty obvious what they're trying to do. Their life sucks and they want your life to suck too, rah rah rah! Right James?

EXACTLY. in my experience, the welcoming mat and smiles are still there after more than 20 years in Thailand.

[Berkshire]

Berk:

I enjoy my life here with my Thai wife and son. That being said, I don't think I have to be the TV online PR guru for the country and I think it's pretty shallow to take issue with folks who don't see the Thai Glass as 100% full. Every country has it's + and -'s.

Example: Bangkok - some people can't stand it - noise, pollution, traffic, expense. While others love it's choices, action, modern conveniences and so on.

To be completely honest and excuse me if this is a bit too brunt, but I couldn't give a soi dog's itchy behind what other people think about what I think of the place.

I'm not sure I read you, but it seems you're saying it's ok to criticize Thailand, but God forbid, don't defend it! Perhaps you're not saying that at all, so excuse me. No one is going to say that Thailand is perfect, least of all me. But the constant negativity, bringing up issues where there's none (e.g., ice in my coke, walking on the wrong side of the sidewalk, blah blah blah), and insisting that it's a Thai thing....just gets tedious.

To your example re Bangkok, let me give you another example from America. Americans love to complain about the country. It's our right, hard fought for and all that. But if a foreigner were to criticize America...well that's a whole another matter. Americans don't take too kindly to that, particularly in the heartland.

But back to Thailand, I do tend to see that the people who whine the most are generally the unhappiest. If you're the exception, then more power to you....

[Berkshire]

You're exactly right, GM. Those who hate it here (yet continue to toil away in misery) like nothing more than to be reminded that they're not the only ones. The old "misery loves company" sort of attitude. Anyone who disagrees is a threat because if you're happy here, it must mean that there's something wrong with THEM. So they try to place labels on said happy folks, e.g., Thai apologist, rose tinted glasses, etc. It's pretty pathetic, actually, because it's pretty obvious what they're trying to do. Their life sucks and they want your life to suck too, rah rah rah! Right James?

EXACTLY. in my experience, the welcoming mat and smiles are still there after more than 20 years in Thailand.

That's right, Ulysses. And you'll probably get called an "apologist" for that statement. Those of us who have adapted and manage to see the glass as half full most of the time really do get under the skin of those who are miserable. They're baffled. Their life sucks are there's nothing they can do about it. Well, except complain.

[klikster]

The welcome mat was withdrawn at least ten years ago.

That is reflected in visa rules ..

Since you have been here for so long, maybe you forgot a few facts.

1 - retirement visa age eligibility changed from 55 to 50

2 - in the past, embassies often required a letter before they would issue an "O" visa (was no "O-A" early on)

3 - getting retirement extensions usually required multiple visits to immigration over periods of months

Seems to me that 'retirement" visas have become much easier.

[gotglue]

You're exactly right, GM. Those who hate it here (yet continue to toil away in misery) like nothing more than to be reminded that they're not the only ones. The old "misery loves company" sort of attitude. Anyone who disagrees is a threat because if you're happy here, it must mean that there's something wrong with THEM. So they try to place labels on said happy folks, e.g., Thai apologist, rose tinted glasses, etc. It's pretty pathetic, actually, because it's pretty obvious what they're trying to do. Their life sucks and they want your life to suck too, rah rah rah! Right James?

EXACTLY. in my experience, the welcoming mat and smiles are still there after more than 20 years in Thailand.

Defo, the welcome mat IS still here, bit scuffed up maybe, but still here all the same. And you're going to receive far more hatred and resentfulness from your fellow countrymen back home, WHATEVER country that maybe.

[jdinasia]

You're exactly right, GM. Those who hate it here (yet continue to toil away in misery) like nothing more than to be reminded that they're not the only ones. The old "misery loves company" sort of attitude. Anyone who disagrees is a threat because if you're happy here, it must mean that there's something wrong with THEM. So they try to place labels on said happy folks, e.g., Thai apologist, rose tinted glasses, etc. It's pretty pathetic, actually, because it's pretty obvious what they're trying to do. Their life sucks and they want your life to suck too, rah rah rah! Right James?

EXACTLY. in my experience, the welcoming mat and smiles are still there after more than 20 years in Thailand.

while I am not yet at the 20 year mark (moved here to stay when I was under 40 --- in 2003) I would say that Thais are just as kind and courteous and welcoming as they were when I first started visiting here in 1997.

I do think that there has been some change in areas that are 100% tourist dominated (Pattaya, Patong, Lower Suk, Etc) but in areas that are tourist reliant (but not dominated by foreign tourists) such as Krabi Phangnga and Chiang Mai even a bit better things are about the same as they have been. Off the beaten track things seem even a bit better. That may just be a shift in perception on my part due to my Thai language skills improving.

Edited June 3, 2010 by jdinasia

[Naam]

maybe not hated, but certainly disliked

how many of the 60+ plus million Thais did you meet who told you that they dislike you?

[mahtin]

They've just been smiling too long and their teeth are aching