Formula 1

[Sophon]

Yep, Ferrari were the first to whine about letting other teams use new tires for this exceptional situation. They prefered winning points in a race that will be remembered as a farce. Bad season, bad judgement. Why not let every team use new tires for this one race? Greed and desperation.

Great move from the teams that pulled out of the race and avoided risking their driver's lives.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I strongly disagree with these sentiments. Ferrary never opposed to letting the teams use new tires or to the construction of a chicane. All they said, was that it was FIA's decision what to do.

Also, there was never any need for the teams to pull out in order to avoid risking their drivers lives. They had the option of going into the pit and changing to the new tires Michellin had flown over. If a team changes to new tires during the race, it is up to the race comittee to decide whether such a change was necessary for safety reasons or because of a defect (in which case no penalty will be given, but the teams are not allowed to fill up during the stop) or not (resulting in a stop and go penalty).

I believe this was a political move from the teams aimed towards Bernie Ecclestone in order to demonstrate, that they can stick together. Remember there have been many rumours about the teams threatening to start their own alternative "formula one" circuit, because they think too little of the money in formula one goes back to the teams (and too much into the pockets of Bernie). I think they were sending a message.

I think it's naive to believe, that all the Michelin teams would have agreed to cancel the race, if it was Bridgestone with the problems.

Sophon

[Sophon]

I agree with you on some things but not this one. They had loads of time from Friday to alter the corner in question- ferrari could've agreed for the better of the sport on the day- they didn't. Now big sponsors in the states are gone and probably forever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure they could have changed the corner, but would that have been fair to do? Michelin fouled up, so we change the track to better suit the inferior tires they have constructed If you recall, Ferrari have had plenty of tire problems this season, including Schumacher having two tire blow outs in the same race, but nobody suggested changing the track back then.

Besides, certifying a track for formula one races is a lengthy process. I'm not sure it would be safer improvising and putting in a new chicane, with no time for testing or anything.

Michelin (who made the gutsy call and the right one).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree it was a very gutsy call by Michelin to recommend, that the teams should not run on the original tires. However, as mentioned in my earlier post, the teams had alternatives. They chose not to race.

Recall the race a couple weeks back? Raikonen blowing out on the last lap???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How is this relevant? The accident with Raikkonen a couple of weeks back was not a tire blow out, but basically caused by driver error. Raikkonen flat spotted his left front tire, and the team decided to leave him out there on that tire, causing the front suspension to break down (notice, no hint of doing the safe thing back then). However, that incident does underline the need to change the ridiculous "one set of tires" rule.

Ecclestone et al have completely lost the plot and more importantly, lost sight of the bigger picture here...  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I totally agree with this and (as mentioned before) I think that is the real motivation behind the events.

Sophon

[RDN]

...it's that stupid rule about using the same tyres for the whole w/end that's to blame...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with this sentiment. There are now too many rules - I thought the idea was to have the fastest cars going round the most challenging of tracks. But a lot of new rules are to make the cars go slower! Let them use the widest tyres with no grooves, allow skirts, adjustable suspension, wings as big as they want, as much fuel as they want, and get rid of that stupid wooden plank! Let these cars go as quick as they can make them go and let the drivers decide how fast they want to go.

[Totster]

...it's that stupid rule about using the same tyres for the whole w/end that's to blame...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with this sentiment. There are now too many rules - I thought the idea was to have the fastest cars going round the most challenging of tracks. But a lot of new rules are to make the cars go slower! Let them use the widest tyres with no grooves, allow skirts, adjustable suspension, wings as big as they want, as much fuel as they want, and get rid of that stupid wooden plank! Let these cars go as quick as they can make them go and let the drivers decide how fast they want to go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree to a certain extent.... but remember, the richest teams would then leave the others who cannot afford the cutting edge technology (and R and D cost the size of a small country's budget)...

totster

[RDN]

...it's that stupid rule about using the same tyres for the whole w/end that's to blame...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with this sentiment. There are now too many rules - I thought the idea was to have the fastest cars going round the most challenging of tracks. But a lot of new rules are to make the cars go slower! Let them use the widest tyres with no grooves, allow skirts, adjustable suspension, wings as big as they want, as much fuel as they want, and get rid of that stupid wooden plank! Let these cars go as quick as they can make them go and let the drivers decide how fast they want to go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree to a certain extent.... but remember, the richest teams would then leave the others who cannot afford the cutting edge technology (and R and D cost the size of a small country's budget)...

totster

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like football and Man U?

[Totster]

...it's that stupid rule about using the same tyres for the whole w/end that's to blame...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with this sentiment. There are now too many rules - I thought the idea was to have the fastest cars going round the most challenging of tracks. But a lot of new rules are to make the cars go slower! Let them use the widest tyres with no grooves, allow skirts, adjustable suspension, wings as big as they want, as much fuel as they want, and get rid of that stupid wooden plank! Let these cars go as quick as they can make them go and let the drivers decide how fast they want to go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree to a certain extent.... but remember, the richest teams would then leave the others who cannot afford the cutting edge technology (and R and D cost the size of a small country's budget)...

totster

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like football and Man U?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chelsea springs to mind...

You are forgetting that Glaser hasn't got much money left to actually invest..

But yes... you are right..

totster

[Merlin]

I've said this for ages too - - there should be a "formula anything" race. Stick a jet engine in the back, if you think you can get it to turn and stop quick enough... Voluntary entry, of course - but I bet there would be plenty of applicants, as well as spectators and sponsors.

Same thing with the olympics too - fair enough the original olympics should be drug free, but there should be a world wide sporting series where anything goes - drugs, prosthetics, whatever. Imagine the advances in medical science, with flow-on benefits to disabled ppl etc...

[remember the recent "enhanced" beauty contest in China? Not to mention the dozens of "miss Tiffany's/Alcazar etc contest here in Thailand.]

[jayenram]

"Michael Schumacher earned his first victory of the year in Sunday's race."

Bad choice of words there.

[bluebear]

I strongly disagree with these sentiments. Ferrary never opposed to letting the teams use new tires or to the construction of a chicane. All they said, was that it was FIA's decision what to do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ferrari WAS opposed as has been mentioned elsewhere.

Also, there was never any need for the teams to pull out in order to avoid risking their drivers lives. They had the option of going into the pit and changing to the new tires Michellin had flown over.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No they didnt. Had they used the new tyres they would have broken the rules.

Even then, the teams offered to race witha penalty and start formt he back, race with no points but new tyres. Ferrarri and FIA said NO.

I think it's naive to believe, that all the Michelin teams would have agreed to cancel the race, if it was Bridgestone with the problems.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are missing the big picture. Its not a Michelin v Bridgestone its Ferrarri v everyone else. Too many times over the last 5 years teams have agreed to swap drivers or let a car enter or whatever and it has been Ferrarri almost EVERY time that has vetoed the idea.

I really wish Schumacher had smashed into Barrichello and taken them both out. Might have taught the feckers a lesson.

[bluebear]

   

F1 News

First lawsuit filed over Indy

Tuesday June 21 2005

The first lawsuit over the Indy farce has been filed in the U.S.

The Indy Star reports that one Larry Bowers, a Colorado resident, has 'filed a class action lawsuit against the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA), Formula One Group, Formula One Administration, Michelin Tires and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway following Sunday’s United States Grand Prix.'

Bowers is claiming that the event was fraudulent, and that 'Formula One, the FIA, Michelin, the teams equipped by Michelin and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway forged an agreement allowing the Michelin teams to participate in the formation lap and then exit the track prior to the start of the race.'

'The alleged 'race' participated by just three teams did not constitute a true grand prix race under FIA and Formula One rules in that the race was started with an insufficient number of participants,' the lawsuit declares.

Bowers is seeking reimbursement for the five tickets he bought for the event and 'other costs' he spent as part of his attendance.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good Luck Mr. Larry Bowers

Yours truly 

Kan Win 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TRULY STUPID.

If the cars had raced and cars had crashed with debris going into the crowd and somebody killed or injured, I wonder if he would be as quick to sue the companies as they had prior knowledge the tyres were unsafe. Of course he would.

I wonder if the teams can sue the spectators that thought it was a good idea to throw cans and bottles of beer and water onto the track potentially causing a fatal accident?

[Chiuey]

I can't believe that after 3 pages of rambling here no one has put forth a good arguement for either side...

Here are the facts

Michelin started investigating the tires after Ralf Schumacher's crash

They found that their tires might have a fault, due to the resurfacing of the Oval track

They flew in a second set of tires and tested them out, but also found them to be insufficient (to last a full race at racing speeds)

Michelin advised their teams that it would not recomment racing at Indy unless speeds were reduces at turn 13

The teams and the FIA went into meetings

Optioins were put forward:

-Michelin teams running slower at turn with radar trap and all those who exceeded that limit would be penalized with a drive thru

-Chicane at turn 13

-Michelin teams could come in and change tires is they were not holding pressure

-Run the race for no points with a speeed reduction by all parties in turn 13

Ferrari originally had opposed the building of a chicane in turn 13, but announced they were going to let the FIA make the decision.

The Michelin teams chose amongst themselves not to run the race

What it all comes down to is, Michelin screwed up big time. the FIA and the teams made it even worse by not coming to a compromise.

Yes they could have built a chicane, but that would mean the FIA would be liable had an accident happened at the turn because it was not build to the specifications in the safety standards.

The FIA and F1 are not under any obligations to the teams to make the race more fair or equal, the nature of the sport in competitive edge whether it's in having the best driver or the best car.

I've been to the F1 race at indy, and it's a fantastic race and race track. Tickets are not 100 bucks a piece, scalping is legal in Indiana, and I've only paid 90 bucks for tickets, and that was the first F1 race in indy. You can easily buy a ticket at half price infront of the gates, or simply get an infield pass for 25 on sunday. However, there are those who do travel a great distance to see the race, and my heart goes out to them, for having paid so much to see a sham.

In the end everyone in the F1 organization is at fauly for what happened in indy, the michelin teams for not racing, the bridgestone teams for racing without their counterparts, the FIA for not coming up wit a solution with the teams, and Michelin for royally &lt;deleted&gt; up and pissing off millions of people! I am an avid F1 fan, and I will always be. I'm not going to stop watching races because of what happened, but I've never been happy with Bernie and Max anyways, so nothing has changed there. I will still go to Shanghai this yr, and I will more than likely have something to bitch about when I'm there too. Mebbe I'll have this flag made??

[Sir Burr]

Don't watch it anymore.

It's so obvious that nobody could give a rat's ar.se about the fans.