So It'S "Bye-Bye Fortuna"

[Deeral]

I hear that starting in August, Toyota intend to move production of this model to Indonesia.

I wonder if this will bring about a price increase too?

[seedy]

I always liked the look of them - too bad I am too tall to fit in one.

[Deeral]

You must be very tall - maybe the Indoesians will fit a dent in the roof for you!

[neverdie]

It will be good to see them go, theý are like aholes here, every second person is driving a tuna. I wonder what the next weapon of choice will be for those that cannot afford the realistic price increase when it no doubtly arrives.

[Deeral]

One in two? Well I'd guess that the rate for having an arse-hole is higher .

I also doubt if they will be taken off the market - they are common for good reasons - and Toyota are not known to miss out on a sale.

Maybe we'll actually get a full range of options on the Vigos instead?

Edited June 8, 2010 by Deeral

[neverdie]

One in two? Well I'd guess that the rate for having an arse-hole is higher .

I also doubt if they will be taken off the market - they are common for good reasons - and Toyota are not known to miss out on a sale.

Maybe we'll actually get a full range of options on the Vigos instead?

No, I didnt think they would be taken off the market, but on the other hand it wouldnt surprise me if the price of them shot up 500,000 baht. Great for the second hand market if that did happen.

I can imagine a 2 mil pricetag might put it out of reach for a few of the pay by month owners..

[Deeral]

Is their a "free=trade" or tariff agreement with Indonesia?

[neverdie]

Not sure. Maybe the thai govt could jump behind the thai build Camry instead & offer a more realistic price on one of them.

[MoonRiverOasis]

I actually posted about this 4 days ago

New Cars Market In Thailand For 2010 And Beyond.. - Thailand Forum - Page 5

In any case, I don't see the prices changing - they've been creeping up with each new 'special' model for a long time now, and these types of decisions (relocating production) are usually planned well in advance. Indonesia is also part of the ASEAN FTA, so there won't be any import duties.

I've now asked quite a few Thai people what they would think of a Thai Fortuner vs. a an Indonesian Fortuner and as expected, patriotism rules - not one of them thinks that an Indonesian Fortuner would be as good as the Thai version, so this will no doubt have an impact on it's brand positioning as it becomes more commonplace knowledge. Just how much is anyone's guess, but one indication may be the Indonesian made Innova - even with the 'right' badge it's never managed to gain any real form of traction in the TH market.

As for anyone looking to buy a Fortuner in the near future, if it's not in-stock, it won't be Thai. The July-August timeframe given is how long they expect to dwindle down the current stocks, manufacturing in Thailand has already ceased.

[Spoonman]

The Fortuna is already being assembled in Indonesia, has been for a few years hasn't it ??

Edited June 8, 2010 by Spoonman

[Histavia]

The Innova, Fortuna and Vigo are essentially the same vehicles - I wonder if the Innova's lack of sales are really to with it's late introduction - lack of advertising and the market/cultural needs .................and does it incur a different tax regime to the Vigo and Fortuna?

...and of course - out of thee very ugly vehicles, it is the ugliest.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Histavia

[katabeachbum]

Is their a "free=trade" or tariff agreement with Indonesia?

There is no importduty to LOS on Fortuners made in Indonesia, and it will be less expensive to build there due to Indonesian governments support of 7 seat vehicles manufactoring. Toyota Commuter is a huge success in LOS (+95% of the market), but its not made here either.

Another question is how long LOS will subsidise these suvs with low excice taxes. If they are taxed like any Altis or Camry, a 3,0 becomes 300-500k baht ++ more expensive

There is no "bye bye Fortuna". Fortuner has been the absolute marketleader in LOS since 1994, and still is, but from now on made in another plant.

[kartman]

Also helps Toyota with any future government resistance to consessions:whistling: .

[katabeachbum]

Is their a "free=trade" or tariff agreement with Indonesia?

There is no importduty to LOS on Fortuners made in Indonesia, and it will be less expensive to build there due to Indonesian governments support of 7 seat vehicles manufactoring. Toyota Commuter is a huge success in LOS (+95% of the market), but its not made here either.

Another question is how long LOS will subsidise these suvs with low excice taxes. If they are taxed like any Altis or Camry, a 3,0 becomes 300-500k baht ++ more expensive

There is no "bye bye Fortuna". Fortuner has been the absolute marketleader in LOS since 1994, and still is, but from now on made in another plant.

:jap:Sorry, getting old, supposed to be 2004, not 1994

[Deeral]

I'm very dissatisfied with the motor trade in THailand - it seems there is no room for customers.But as far as the Fortuna is concerned I certainly didn't want to infer it was going off the market - I was indeed referring to it's transplantation to Indonesia ands wondering what the ramifications might be.

Price increase? Better options?

building saloons / sedans is a different set of technological problems, from the easy to to build low-tech Fortuna/Vigo/innova model which was developed I think specifically with Asia in mind.

[ignis]

I always liked the look of them - too bad I am too tall to fit in one.

Yep, but then it would appear that all Toyota's in Asia are built for Asian/Thai people, have tried a number of different one and just do not fit.

[katabeachbum]

I'm very dissatisfied with the motor trade in THailand - it seems there is no room for customers.But as far as the Fortuna is concerned I certainly didn't want to infer it was going off the market - I was indeed referring to it's transplantation to Indonesia ands wondering what the ramifications might be.

Price increase? Better options?

building saloons / sedans is a different set of technological problems, from the easy to to build low-tech Fortuna/Vigo/innova model which was developed I think specifically with Asia in mind.

the auto business in LOS is still in its childhood. 30 years ago there where no cars countryside, only in BKK. When I went from bkk to Pattaya 40 years ago, airplane was the obvious choise. No roads, crappy cars.

On a population of 65 mill people there are sold 500k units a year. In my homecountry with 9 mill people, sale is 250k units a year. Makes room for customers. At least some makes let us choose the color here:)

Not even upmarket brands like BMW and Benz allows options in LOS. They make a kit believed to be accepted by the market, and thats it

Edited June 8, 2010 by katabeachbum

[hansnl]

On the other hand, it might be the first step of the departure of production from Thailand

What, in the longer run, the reaction of the government will be, is very much unclear.

Indeed, most "taxbreaks" are there to help local producers.

As such, a logical and understandable way of helping the people.

It might be a very simple step to exclude certain cars formerly produced in Thailand and now somewhere else from "subsidy".

Edited June 8, 2010 by hansnl

[katabeachbum]

On the other hand, it might be the first step of the departure of production from Thailand

What, in the longer run, the reaction of the government will be, is very much unclear.

Indeed, most "taxbreaks" are there to help local producers.

As such, a logical and understandable way of helping the people.

It might be a very simple step to exclude certain cars formerly produced in Thailand and now somewhere else from "subsidy".

Moving Fortuner production out of LOS is a response to BOI. No more manufactoring support after 5 years, or to put it another way, Fortuner had to remain made in LOS for 5 years in an agreed on number of units to keep the initial support by BOI.. BOIs focus is now on Ecocars, which major players as Continental believes will be 20% of all LOS made cars within a few years.

Vehicles like Fortuner are made everywhere in the world. Ecocars will probably be made only in 5-6 countries

[Deeral]

.I take your point about making different models in THailand (especially for export) but market forces seem to be thwarted in thailand itself....

I'm not sure the industry is in it's infancy, but the market seems to be...........

THailand has used extraordinarily high tariffs and retail price maintenance agreements to protect various industries and interests over the last 40 years, and this may well account for the extremely limited choice of vehicle here and the lop-sided bias towards the crude pickup and its derivatives.

This holds back a broader motor industry - not to mention roads etc...

If Thailand HAD to import cars it may be a good thing in the long run as a full range of vehicles would become available at level tax rates.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Deeral

[onnut]

I hope this is the end of the Fortuna in Thailand. I am tired of having these things being driven by madmen who think they have the right of way 100% of the time.

At least if the price goes up there will be less around in a few years.

[katabeachbum]

.I take your point about making different models in THailand (especially for export) but market forces seem to be thwarted in thailand itself....

I'm not sure the industry is in it's infancy, but the market seems to be...........

THailand has used extraordinarily high tariffs and retail price maintenance agreements to protect various industries and interests over the last 40 years, and this may well account for the extremely limited choice of vehicle here and the lop-sided bias towards the crude pickup and its derivatives.

This holds back a broader motor industry - not to mention roads etc...

If Thailand HAD to import cars it may be a good thing in the long run as a full range of vehicles would become available at level tax rates.

protectionisme, just like EU, Japan and the US, has made this countries auto industry. 1,4 million units output this year, more than 50% exported.

Import from 10 other contries in all segments is no duty free.

Import from most countries is now duty free in some segments.

An infant market doesnt want a full range of vehicles, people want to buy the same as their neighbor. Ford, Mazda, Nissan, Honda and Toyota compete at same level, but 9 of 10 buyers choose Honda and Toyota. Except for the rich ones in bkk, who choose a mini or anything unique at 3 times the price

But more than 50% still choose a 600k pickup. No competition, from any other makers.

VW, Fiat, Peugeot, Opel, Renault and other major players choose to not compete in this market

Edited June 8, 2010 by katabeachbum

[123ace]

I will be happy to see less of these sold as they are driven very often by people that can't afford a sports car, so they drive a fortuner flat out. The Camry would also not be missed. There is something about many of the people that drive these cars, and its not something nice.

If you have not noticed this yet, you will now.

[xbusman]

I wrote about this a few years back, we are seeing the results of decisions made years ago in the Japanese board rooms. Its a big deal to move an automotive manufacturing facility and usually only done under the most extreme circumstances. This has a lot more to do with political instability, currency strength, and support systems than anything else. Watch for much more of this over the next few years, Toyota is a sort of bellwether, usually a few steps ahead of the pack.

[stingray]

One in two? Well I'd guess that the rate for having an arse-hole is higher .

I also doubt if they will be taken off the market - they are common for good reasons - and Toyota are not known to miss out on a sale.

Maybe we'll actually get a full range of options on the Vigos instead?

No, I didnt think they would be taken off the market, but on the other hand it wouldnt surprise me if the price of them shot up 500,000 baht. Great for the second hand market if that did happen.

I can imagine a 2 mil pricetag might put it out of reach for a few of the pay by month owners..

2 Mil, for a 4 potter diesel? Uaaaaaahhhh!

[Deeral]

"protectionisme, just like EU, Japan and the US, has made this countries auto industry."

Unfotunately it breeds strange industries too that build the wrong or unsaleable models - the European motor industry was built on a relatively open market.the British industry wasn't 0 and look what happened to that.Toyota et al know what they are doing better than anyone else in the motor industry. But the prevalence of pickups in thailand is the result of protectionism.They are crude inherently less safe than the average family sedan and use a lot of fuel.THe oprice of second-hand cars too is very high - if it wasn't for protectionism the country would have a good supply of cheap second-hand cars.

so does Thailand need a motor-industry if the costs are a vestigial range of out-dated vehicles and very high prices on second-hand vehicles?

[Deeral]

I hope this is the end of the Fortuna in Thailand. I am tired of having these things being driven by madmen who think they have the right of way 100% of the time.

At least if the price goes up there will be less around in a few years.

do you seriously think that if the Fortuna was to disappear - which it won't - that those who drive them would disappear?

There is a strange perception about drivers and cars which really doesn't stand up -

[Digitalbanana]

I hear that starting in August, Toyota intend to move production of this model to Indonesia.

I wonder if this will bring about a price increase too?

You heard wrong. From Nation online today: "Toyota Motor Thailand flatly denied the news report that the Fortuner manufacturing would be relocated from Thailand to Indonesia." Rink- Toyota denies relocation reports

[onnut]

I hope this is the end of the Fortuna in Thailand. I am tired of having these things being driven by madmen who think they have the right of way 100% of the time.

At least if the price goes up there will be less around in a few years.

do you seriously think that if the Fortuna was to disappear - which it won't - that those who drive them would disappear?

There is a strange perception about drivers and cars which really doesn't stand up -

I would rather a camry tailgating than a fortuner.

[MoonRiverOasis]

You heard wrong. From Nation online today: "Toyota Motor Thailand flatly denied the news report that the Fortuner manufacturing would be relocated from Thailand to Indonesia." Rink- Toyota denies relocation reports

Interesting.. The source I heard this from is a Toyota Thailand employee - now I'm curious as to what's really happened/happening..