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Posted

Not just toying with this idea, but half-considering doing it:

Common wisdom says that you can never take the bar out of the boy, so you shouldn't try to take the money-boy out of the prostitution business. Probably heteros say the same thing about bar-girls. Is that always the case?

Not naming names, but in the first place, it's difficult to know the entire work history of your potential new lover, unless he's old enough to have a true resume ov CV. If he did turn a few tricks (or a few hundred tricks) in his younger days but has been working full-time without working on the side in the evenings, who cares?

I look at a few categories of the non-barboys and have second thoughts. Some are so far over the hill that they've lost their good looks, if that matters. Never mind the hypocrisy for us older farang. Some of the non-barboys are still in the closet, so you have to share a life of lies and secrecy (no, thanks). My ex-boyfriend was no beauty contestant, but he could take me home to Mama.

One of my barboy candidates has already taken me home to mama and papa, saying "They know I am katoey, and they know I am money-boy"!! The other moneyboy is still in the closet at age 19, from a town famous for katoeys, where some boys are out of the closet at age 11. Go figure.

What do you think? Is there an exception that tests the general rule? Would it be any less trouble than some of the crapola you guys have gone through with the allegedly non-money-boys?

Posted

This thread, has as its theme, the age old one of the "prostitute with the heart of gold", written about for centuries by novelists, biographers and playrights. Isn't there a biblical reference or two?

Many lawyers hate their profession and would do almost anything to get out of it, why can't the same be true of prosititutes? Irma la duce had that place reserved on her neck for her lover, didn't she?!!

I firmly believe that if a boy, who falls into prostitution against his will, will be eternally grateful to one who makes it possbile to get him out of it.

If the prostitute becomes such due to laziness, dishhonesty (ie a hustler) or "quckbuckitus", he prbably doesn't have the character qualities that will redeem him when given the opportunity.

It is not surprising that the dishonest find a happy place in prostitution but that does not apply to all. "Goldmining" offers its rewards with luck and hard work, so I say, go for it, with your eyes open but know it is a "slippery slope" and about as enriching as actual gold prospecting.

Posted

Going home to Mama has no real appeal for me.

It's as easy to meet middle-class or upper middle-class Thais as it is to meet prostitutes in my experience.

The language barrier is greatly reduced by dating educated men as well. Why would someone consider dating someone in Thailand that they never would have "dated" at home is beyond me.

Posted

every case is different, and every soul of a human being is different..... I never "OFFed" a boy in Thailand, as the thought that the guy in bed beside me is just interested in my money is a "turn-off" to me (but nobody knows what will be in 10 years or so.....I will have to OFF someone when I am 50+ probably..... means, I dont give a ###### if people go for the moneyboys, thats ok with me ). thanks god I still can get non-commercial guys at BKK, even at PTY (I hardly couldnt believe that I met a 18 year old there lately without having to pay), but I accompanied a Swiss friend of mine just a few days ago and we ended up at the notorious SOI TWILIGHT area. He was interested to OFF someone, well, he was here on his holidays....so he wanted to have some fun.... but me, I was just having a beer, watching the 25 boys dancing on stage.....and I wondered what did they think about us, the only 2 customers in the club (on a monday night). Well, probably 90% of them would not even "look at us with their ass" (as we use to say in German), if we were not potential customers (in fact, when they realizied I will not OFF anybody, they ignored me completely). but 2 or 3 guys acted different somehow.....they had something warm and their smile was not artificial.... my Swiss friend then decided to OFF exactly one of these guys, the guy came to our table, and immidiately started to KISS and HUG my Swiss friend....kinda unusual for a moneyboy.....we then left the scene, I went back to my place, and the next day my Swiss friend told me that he had a wonderful night, and the guy stayed overnight, even that was not expected or compulsory....

but they had a big communication problem.....usual thing....

so, I think it MAY be possible to release somebody from the moneyboy/Barscene.....but its RARE.....and I dont think somebody does that job AGAINST his will..... slavery is not really common in thailand..... though POVERTY is, of course.....

there was a wonderful story about exactly that topic in "that other" gay-Thailand-messageboard, of which we are not permitted to post the URL. if you are interested to know about it, private me and I will guide u to there.....

in the end: are we not all dreaming to be the "good person" and release a cute boy from a bar, then live with him happily forever ? Oh yes, I do have such a dream too.... Well its just a dream, and probably only in less than 1% of the cases it comes true......but I can happen.....so dont give up, but always be careful and not too naive.....

BTW, gaybutton has some good and realistic stories and comments about that topic on his homepage......

Posted

Why do most of you guys feel the only place to find a boy is in a bar? The majority of barboys are straight and are going with you ONLY for your money. I think its a safe bet most of these guys couldn't get a date back where they came from even WITH their money. Do you honestly for a second believe these boys are sexually attracted to you? PLEEEEEEEASE!!!!!

Go to a park...

Go to a shopping mall....

Go to a library.....

Go to a movie theatre......

Go to restaurants.......

Walk around.......

There are REAL gay boys out there that might like to meet someone sincere and spend a life with you. Barboys are just that and always will be....and yes, I have been here for 20 years and owned a bar so I do know what I'm talking about. I have many friends who work in the bars and I know that this is true. And yes, I have had a wonderful relationship with a GAY boy for the past 4 years who doesn't ask for money and yes, we met in a shopping center.

If I had a nickel for every guy who came here and told me..."Oh, but this boy is different!" I would be a millionaire.

:o

Posted

I think the short answer to your opening question, PB (is it ever a good idea) is probably no. However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. You obviously are very fond of this guy (I've heard you talking about him since I first started corresponding with you) and he keeps popping up in your life- there's some sort of hook in it for you. Maybe it's something you have to do either to get him out of your system or to learn the lesson about how it does (or doesn't) work for you.

Some suggestions:

1. Eyes wide open: Both of you should be pretty darn clear at the beginning what you're looking for and what you get from the relationship. If it's sex and love, or sex and money, or sex and love and money, it should be discussed. If your guy has plans to go away at some stage in life (university in Bangkok, "working" abroad somewhere") this should also be discussed.

2. Rules:

a. Money: I think this only has a chance if YOU are strong enough to enforce boundaries and rules in the relationship. Chances are he'll be happy to get anything he can from you, financially and otherwise, and unless you're clear about what you WILL give him and what you WON'T- and how strict this condition is (doesn't matter if your mother's dying, doesn't matter if your house burns down, doesn't matter if it's Songkran, doesn't matter if your friends are laughing at you, etc., etc., recite all the typical MB excuses for weaselling money out of people) you're in for hassle and trouble. Suggestion: no electronics or jewelry will be given at any time for any reason.

Regarding your will, you may wish to put him in there if there's financial room, but NEVER, EVER inform him of this or even make him aware there exists such a document. Discussion of your will by him is a taboo topic which should lead quickly to stony disapproving silence.

b. Sex: If it's a guy under 25 who's a former/current MB, I think monogamy is really too much to ask. On the other hand, you can set rules about priorities: no missing appointments with you, no vanishing for 3 weeks "upcountry" without communication or notice, no bringing tricks to your home, which bars you are willing/not willing for him to be flirting in, etc., etc. Again, if you're going to have these rules you're also going to have to enforce them.

Um, you'll also need to agree what YOU'll be doing, assuming you don't intend to be monogamous, and what your former barboy is supposed to do if you're at home with someone else....

c. Safety: You are, of course, going to put a copy of this guy's id in some safe place outside your apartment so that on the off-chance he robs you there is some possibility you will catch him? Oh, and you will not let him have a key to your place, either, and pass it off to people who will rob you and split the catch with him, right? On this issue, I guess you've got to go with your instincts... scary stuff.

"Steven"

Posted

Thanks to everybody who's answered so far. Let me mainly first to Steven, who knows almost the whole story about #1, not #2.

If this boy had been a thief, he would have robbed me long ago. He's not. But he's always been a little money-hungry, so I'd have to set firm limits on that. Naturally, I think I'm the only nice, decent customer they ever get, and they'd love to get out of the business. I don't know.

Point: I only repeatedly take off young men who are gay, not straight or bi.

Of course, it's silly, and fraught with problems. Yeah, I do need to check my 'charity-worker syndrome.' I'm a lousy savior. And yes, if I look elsewhere, it shouldn't be too difficult to find a non-commercial long-term boyfriend. In fact, I may not get a boyfriend (just broke up with one, seven weeks ago).

It's interesting, though, in reviewing your comments so far, that only one or two of you flat-out said things like "Don't do it!" or "Of coure, it's impossible."Thanks.

More comments?

Posted

Before PB came to LOS, I told him that he could find some young fellow to take care of him- but it would require a lot of time and energy focussed on that one guy (and he might have to do a lot of the taking care of first...). I get the feeling that he was never really *that* interested in that plan, having discovered a certain... wanderlust. After all, PB trapped himself for many years in a straight relationship- he never had that wild gay youth that some of us did (hope he's said this before and I'm not really giving out any news here). He's a very respectable senior citizen and horny gay grandfather, and perhaps he doesn't want to put all his eggs in one basket. So I don't blame him personally for not investing a year or so into finding a "decent" 30-40 something yo husband and settling down. He has a lot to give, and contrary to the popular prejudices of the conservative West, relationships between older and younger people can work quite well, finances aside (though those are often important, too).

So, no, PB, I'm not going to tell you not to do this- I also don't blame the bar boys for adopting a lifestyle with their beauty that gives them a better fighting chance than "noodle bus boy" after what is often a substandard education in the boonies. If only more of them would take the chance to get MORE of that education to keep from losing their temporary edge- good looks don't last forever. Well, this is probably something you can help him with too, PB, come to think of it!

Good luck whichever way you do it (and see you soon? definitely call you soon).

"Steven"

Posted
There are REAL gay boys out there that might like to meet someone sincere and spend a life with you. Barboys are just that and always will be....and yes, I have been here for 20 years and owned a bar so I do know what I'm talking about. I have many friends who work in the bars and I know that this is true. And yes, I have had a wonderful relationship with a GAY boy for the past 4 years who doesn't ask for money and yes, we met in a shopping center.

If I had a nickel for every guy who came here and told me..."Oh, but this boy is different!" I would be a millionaire.

:o

I don't think this post really takes PB's personal situation into account, but it is actually excellent advice for the general resident who wants a genuine boyfriend and doesn't want to fool around. I get looks all the time- guys sitting at other tables in restaurants, waiters at the restaurants, guys in malls and parks, on the bus, waiting at a bus stop, shopping in a market... there are just so many gay guys out there. I'm pretty sure PB knows a gay guy from a straight guy, too, even in bars....

"Steven"

Posted

Actually, I followed Steven's advice to the letter for my first 11 months in Thailand, and set myself up with a respectable mid-30's manager. Everything else went fine (he's still a good friend) except I wanted 'it' ten times as often as he could share 'it' with me. Finally, we've called it quits. It would take a fair amount of effort to find Mr. Right, and I don't really want a full-time permanent live-in exclusive LTR. I'll make that clear if Mr. Bar Boy wants to move in.

It's possible I could steer him into a decent long-term occupation. I could set him up at commercial college (where I could check on his attendance), and I could surely teach him English. Actually, I know a former bar-boy that's having that done for him; at least six months ago, that what he said. But that's the former bar-boy who called me two weeks ago wanting to turn a quick trick, so I'm not sure what happened.

Posted

The answer came down:

Gay issues should be allowed, but bar-boys discussions should be discussed elsewhere, not on thaivisa.com.

No bargirls, no barboys!

Sorry guys.

ChrisP

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