New Neighbor?

[patsfangr]

Hi All!

My name is George. I'm a 62-year old American citizen. My wife, Suwanna, is a Thai national. I am looking toward retirement in 2-3 years, possibly sooner, if things go well in our search for a home in Thailand.

Currently, we are most interested in settling down in the Pattaya area, or nearby. Our goal is to stay within reasonable reach of Bangkok, where most of our family lives, while avoiding the crush of Bangkok traffic, polution, and crowded streets.

I don't want to pry into any personal information, but I'd really appreciate some general input on the economics of living there, from an ex-pat viewpoint. What are your feelings about the level of monthly income that would allow for a comfortable lifestyle, by ex-pat standards, in Thailand these days?

I'd also appreciate any input you have on honest, dependable real estate brokers for the Pattaya region. We are looking for a house with at least 3 bedrooms. We'll have one Thai family member moving in with us, and others likely visiting on occasion. We want to have a little land with the house, to avoid having neighbors elbow to elbow. Hope to hear from you all soon, and get to know you better!

[barryofthailand]

Hi George,

My name is Barry, i also come from america. I retired in Pattaya two years ago, myself , my wife, and son bought a two bedroom house on a side soi two years ago. A house with some land in pattaya might be hard to come by as the city is growing at a rapid pace.

[Kerryd]

If you want to be close to Bangkok, you may want to consider Chonburi/Sri Racha area instead of Pattaya. On holidays and long weekends, the traffic between Pattaya and Bangkok can be one long traffic jam.

Prices would probably be cheaper too, than buying in Pattaya.

As for living expenses ? Well, that is a tough one. There are perhaps too many variables to be able to decide what is enough for someone else to live on.

Some people can get by on 15,000 baht/month (single people, living pretty cheap). Just off the top of my head, I'd say you would probably be looking at not less than 3 times that amount.

If you owned your house outright (i.e. no mortgage payments), you could get by cheaper than if you are renting or paying off a mortgage. You will be supporting more than just yourself, so expect that some expenses will be a lot more (like food).

At your age, you should be considering medical insurance and maybe life insurance as well. Then there is transportation (car or motorcycle, insurance, fuel, taxes). Cable TV, internet, telephone, entertainment expenses.

Basically, everything you have to budget for where you are now. Only difference is some things (like food) maybe cheaper here.

Thailand can be cheaper to live in than many western countries, but it depends a lot on the standard of life that you are comfortable with.

Take a (long) holiday, travel around the country, check out the locations and prices. You may find that you are better off in Lop Buri or Nakom Phatom or somewhere in Isaan (much cheaper to live there compared to Pattaya).

There are lots of real estate agents in Pattaya. Reputable ones ? No idea. Try doing a google search for real estate in Pattaya, get a short list of agents and properties you might be interested in.

[patsfangr]

Hi George,

My name is Barry, i also come from america. I retired in Pattaya two years ago, myself , my wife, and son bought a two bedroom house on a side soi two years ago. A house with some land in pattaya might be hard to come by as the city is growing at a rapid pace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the reply, Barry! Hopefully, we'll meet one day. Meanwhile, I will appreciate any advice or comments that come to mind based upon your experience.

Is your wife Thai? I'm just curious as to what led you to the decision to retire in Thailand.

Do you have any comment on my question regarding what I should plan on as a monthly budget for living in the Pattaya area? I expect to have my home paid in full, as well as a car. But, of course, I'll be paying for all utilities, including cable TV, and internet service, as well as other normal living expenses. Would you mind telling me what the average cost is for utilities, cable TV, internet, and gasoline are there now?

I don't expect to have much concern about food, since I know that will be cheap there. I love Thai food, and expect to pretty much "eat like a native" when we move.

How was your home purchasing experience, Barry? Did you deal with a realtor? If so, were you satisfied with their honesty, professionalism, and overall service? I've seen many properties that interest me at a web site for "East Coast Realty", based in Pattaya. Do you know of them, and have any comments about them?

Well, I think I've buried you with enogh questions for one day. Hope I'm not being too pushy. I'm just anxious to cover all the bases before making the big decision.

Thanks again for responding!

[patsfangr]

If you want to be close to Bangkok, you may want to consider Chonburi/Sri Racha area instead of Pattaya. On holidays and long weekends, the traffic between Pattaya and Bangkok can be one long traffic jam.

Prices would probably be cheaper too, than buying in Pattaya.

As for living expenses ? Well, that is a tough one. There are perhaps too many variables to be able to decide what is enough for someone else to live on.

Some people can get by on 15,000 baht/month (single people, living pretty cheap). Just off the top of my head, I'd say you would probably be looking at not less than 3 times that amount.

If you owned your house outright (i.e. no mortgage payments), you could get by cheaper than if you are renting or paying off a mortgage. You will be supporting more than just yourself, so expect that some expenses will be a lot more (like food).

At your age, you should be considering medical insurance and maybe life insurance as well. Then there is transportation (car or motorcycle, insurance, fuel, taxes). Cable TV, internet, telephone, entertainment expenses.

Basically, everything you have to budget for where you are now. Only difference is some things (like food) maybe cheaper here.

Thailand can be cheaper to live in than many western countries, but it depends a lot on the standard of life that you are comfortable with.

Take a (long) holiday, travel around the country, check out the locations and prices. You may find that you are better off in Lop Buri or Nakom Phatom or somewhere in Isaan (much cheaper to live there compared to Pattaya).

There are lots of real estate agents in Pattaya. Reputable ones ? No idea. Try doing a google search for real estate in Pattaya, get a short list of agents and properties you might be interested in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the reply, Kerry! Kabul? Keep your head down, my friend! How long do you expect to be there? Is your home in Thailand, or does your familiarity with it come from military duty there? I did my time a couple of doors down from Thailand, in Vietnam, way back in 1970. Learned to keep my head down well enough to come home in one piece! :-)

Chon Buri or Si Racha would certainly be acceptable for us. But the distance between Pattaya and Bangkok don't bother me too much. We won't be travelling to BKK that often, and, when we do, we can plan to go mid-week. It really all depends upon how the real estate issue comes out. I want to ensure that we get a home with all of the modern western conveniences available in Thailand. Of course, we have a budget limitation. But, from what I've seen on the internet, if those ads are to be believed, I can find something very suitable for our needs at under my $100K limit. Would you agree with that?

Your budget estimate information is very encouraging. I expect to have a pension income well beyond the 45,000 bht you note as reasonable minimum. My situation figures to be almost exactly as you outlined it - own the house outright, own and operate a car, require cable TV, internet, and phone service.

I really do appreciate your input. The more I hear from ex-pat "veterans", the better my chances of a successful move, with minimal problems. I do have the advantages of having a Thai wife, and being familiar with living in Asia, as I worked for Boeing in Shanghai for 15 months a few years back. And, of course, I've spent considerable time at several locations in Thailand for short visits over the past 30+ years. So at least I'm not concerned about "culture shock". :-)

I hope all goes well for you in completion of your tour in Afganistan. I hope we can meet and swap "war stories" some day. :-)

[barryofthailand]

Hi George,

My wife is Thai, and she comes from surin. I adopted her son, as a matter of fact we went to Bangkok yesterday to apear in front of the adoption board, and after 18 months the adoption was finally approved.

I bought my home directly from the owner. We rented our house for a year, and after looking at several homes, and several different villages in the Pattaya area we asked the owner if she wanted to sell, and we negotiated a price.

I realy don't think you need a realistate agent. You can just drive around and find homes for sale, or if you want a brand new home thier are plenty being built with onsight sales agents directly from the builder.

Property sales are done a lot different in Yhailand then in Ame3rica. Thier are no title searches, and no title insurance, If you buy a home from a private individual it is your responsibility to go to the land office and have the title ( chanote) searched. I'm sure your wife knows about those things.

There are also brand new homes being built in Ban Surea ( not sure on the spelling) just south of Pattaya off of Sukimvit Hwgy. Depends on how much you want to spend. Do you have any children? I am from Los Angeles. Where are you from?

Electric with air runs about $50,00 a month durring the hot season March April and May, about $0.00 a month the rest of the year. Water is cheap about $6.00 a month. Right now the whole eastern seaboard is short on water. We are receiving our first rain of the year at the moment. That's one thing you need to check when looking for a home is the water situation.

I would say to live comfortably you would need between $1000.00 and $1500.00 a month.

Hope I have been somewhat helpful for you.

Barry

[Dragonman]

Hi George, me and my thai wife moved to this bungalow a year ago. It's in Sattahip which is about 30 minutes south of Pattaya and less than 2 hours from Bangkok. The property cost under $40,000 dollars has 3 bedrooms, living room, kitchen, and 2 shower rooms, plus 820 square metres of land. I live fairly comfortably on my pension of 40000 baht a month. If you've got the time I'd advise finding the right land for you and building from new. Good Luck.

[Kerryd]

Thanks for the reply, Kerry! Kabul? Keep your head down, my friend!  How long do you expect to be there? Is your home in Thailand, or does your familiarity with it come from military duty there? I did my time a couple of doors down from Thailand, in Vietnam, way back in 1970. Learned to keep my head down well enough to come home in one piece! :-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't know, BECAUSE I WASN'T THERE !

It's pretty quiet here in the Kabul area, most of the action is happening down south. I live in Thailand, when I'm not working in places like this. Need to do it though, so one day I too can retire full-time !

But, from what I've seen on the internet, if those ads are to be believed, I can find something very suitable for our needs at under my $100K limit. Would you agree with that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

100K US ? Should be able to get set up very nice for that (about 4 mil Baht), again depending on where you want to be. Some of the new developements are very expensive, and if they live up to their hype, they would be worth it.

I really do appreciate your input. The more I hear from ex-pat "veterans", the better my chances of a successful move, with minimal problems.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Always pays to do your homework first, especially when it comes to a major decision like this. Like we say in the army: If you fail to plan, then plan on failing.

I hope all goes well for you in completion of your tour in Afganistan. I hope we can meet and swap "war stories" some day. :-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The way things are going, the job here may be finished this fall. ot sure if I'll be moving on to a new location, or possibly coming back here in the new year.

There are a few ex-pat clubs in Pattaya, and there's often "get togethers" with other members from this board, at different locations and times. Shouldn't be any shortage of ex-pats and veterans around when ever you are here.

[TokyoT]

I think in one of your other posts you have indicated your wife may travel to Thailand in advance to look for land or such, and in this post the indication is that you will have 45,000 Baht plus per month with a cap of $100K to buy the house/land upfront.

You should not be too concerned about the budget – as Kerryd has indicated some have budgets as low as 15K per month, and it is safe to say that you should easily be able to live a nice and happy life on 30-40K. The $100K for the house should be more than sufficient – taking into account certain exceptions in regard to say ocean front property.

As barry indicates Pattaya is growing pretty quickly so you may be better off in a location a little off the beaten path to increase what you can get for your money.

While sending your wife over in advance is not a bad idea if I were you I would not be in such a rush to buy land/property. Get things set for your move. Come over and rent a house/condo for a year rather than buy upfront. Take that year to get a lay of the land and then you and your wife can make a much more knowledgeable selection of what area is best for you. The cost to rent is not bad, and you can probably rent a place and keep inside the 30-40K range if you watch the money a little bit, and if you think you can get by not living in a huge place for that first year.

People have different wants/needs and it will probably be best for you and your wife in the long term to take the time and pick a location that suits your needs.

Good luck.

[patsfangr]

This forum has been a FANTASTIC find for me.! You guys are all great. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your input and advise in my situation.

As all of you are certainly well aware, this is a major decision in life. The most difficult aspect of it, as is the case with anything in life, is the natural reservations associated with facing the unknown. Getting information and advice from those who have been there is a wonderful weapon to use against that uncertainty.

Thank you, gentlemen! And please keep it coming!

Is it cheaper to buy a car there, with all those taxes, than to buy one here and ship it to Thailand?

Should I deal with the Thai consulate here immediately regarding my visa application?

Should I apply for a retirement visa, with verification of my marriage to a Thai citiszen; or go for some other form of visa? What if I want to seek work, or open a business there after I've moved?

OK. Enough for now! If you can think of anything I've missed, please just offer your advice freely! Again, thanks for the help.

[TokyoT]

Unless you have a vehicle that you are really attached to you are going to be better off just buying one in Thailand. Between the import duties, the hassle and such any possible difference in cost will be nullified.

You really can not do much on the visa front until you are ready to come over – except check to see what kind of documents you need and be prepared to gather them when the time comes.

Can not comment much on which visa will be right for you be you can contact Steve at Indo-Siam, or George at Sunbelt both have regular web link adds on Tv and both offer services to help with visa issues and Thailand business issues. So I am sure if you discuss your current situation, and what you might be interested in doing in the future they can advise as to the type of visa. You will have several options available but retirement, or non-immigrant O (due to Thai spouse) is probably your best bet. Then after you get over hear and get settled a little you may consider changing you visa status for business/work considerations.

You have been working your entire life, and a move across the globe is not like moving down the street or even to a new state. There will be many things you need to adjust to and the first year over here will fly by. So relax take that first year to settle in get your bearings and then you can decide if there are any work/business possibilities that you feel are worth the risk. You still have plenty of time before you retire and even after you retire don’t sweat it.

One other piece of advise – when it comes time to move ship everything that you ship to Thailand in your wife’s name. Since she has lived outside of Thailand for the last couple of decades she can get the shipment into Thailand duty free. While shipping in under your name is not so clear cut in regard to duties as this depends upon other issues such as having a work permit.

[udon]

Hi George,

don't forget all the white goods you may have to buy.

Washing machine

Fridges

TV

Stereo

etc, etc., can add up $$$$

Have a look at www.tohome.com etc

Other links, guys?

[tuky]

Hi George,

Firstly, welcome to thaivisa.com we are glad you find our forum helpful.

Udon is spot on, my wife and I have just recently finished building our house and have found the white goods, house decorations have really added up.

We are in Sriracha, about 20 mins north of PTY and we find the place to be great. All we need without (as yet) the bussle of PTY.

I have attached a couple of photos of our house, which we paid around the same as the cap you have put on your house purchase.

The house has 320 sqm of living space and sits on an 800 sqm block in an estate.

It took roughly 12 months to build and seeing as my wife is female (thank god) I seriously doubt it will ever be fully finished.

TokyoT has hit the nail on the head regarding the visa situation, contact Indo-Siam or Sunbelt for professional advice and service and in the mean time check out the Thai visas, residency and work permits forum, funnily enough sponsored by Sunbelt Asia.

We are all happy to answer any question so keep em coming.

Best

[Digger]

Just a hint - the East Coast real estate website is probably the most out of date of any website I have ever seen. They do NOT update it and everything is well out of date including most of the prices if those properties are even still available. Pretty reliable real estate agent though.

KCR Homefinder (www.kcrhomefinder) is kept up to date as is Premier Homes.

[patsfangr]

TokyoT, thanks very much for your valuable and thoughful advice. The tip on shipping in my wife's name is definitely a point I had not thought about, and seems to be a very wise course of action to follow.

Your philosophy on "settling in" for a while is directly in line with my own thinking. That's why I'm not considering working immediately. As you suggest, I think I'll just forget about it, and address the work permit issue when, and IF, the urge to work again should strike me.

I'm not concerned as much with the adjustment issue as some might be. You see, we lived in Shanghai for 15 months. I volunteered for an assignment there with Boeing, my employer for the last 20 years. While it was certainly a different lifestyle than I live here in California, I thoroughly enjoyed it, and would have stayed much longer, had the contract not run out. Needless to say, the language situation will be considerably less of a factor with my "in-house interpretor" at my side in Thailand! (I shamefully confess that, after 32 years of marriage, I still do not speak Thai.)

Again, thanks for taking the time to respond in such detail.

[patsfangr]

Hi George,

don't forget all the white goods you may have to buy.

Washing machine

Fridges

TV

Stereo

etc, etc., can add up $$$$

Have a look at www.tohome.com etc 

Other links, guys?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, Udon. Interesting site. I'll be shipping my own desktop PC, DVR/VCR, and one U.S. TV over there. I'll need the U.S. TV to play the tapes (literally hundreds of them) that I have recorded over the years. I don't believe they'll play on Asian TVs due to the line difference, right?

But you are 100% correct about the more necessary white goods. Even if our new home comes with a refrigerator and stove, it's likely that my wife will want to replace or, almost certainly add to what is there. She's a slim lady, but she consumes vegetables like an elephant eats bamboo! That stuff takes up a lot of room in the fridge.

[Totster]

. I'll be shipping my own desktop PC, DVR/VCR, and one U.S. TV over there. I'll need the U.S. TV to play the tapes (literally hundreds of them) that I have recorded over the years. I don't believe they'll play on Asian TVs due to the line difference, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think most modern TV's are capable of using both PAL and NTSC formats

totster

[patsfangr]

Thanks, Tukyleith! You're house is gorgeous! Unfortunately, there is no way that my wife will wait 12 months for a house to be built. And, in this case, we're actually on the same page!

Sriracha is definitely within our scope. We're open to any of the East Coast towns, starting all the way up Samut Prakhan, and stretching all the way down to Rayong. Near the water, or inland is not a major issue for us either, though the former would certainly be preferable. The house, much more than the specific location, is the key for us. That's why I'm hoping to hook up with a Real Estate agent who can find the right combination of size, land, amenities, and price for us.

My next project will be to follow the advice given here regarding visa help from the sources you guys pointed out to me. Thanks!

[patsfangr]

Sorry to hear that the East Coast listings are likely outdated, Digger. Of all the sites I've looked at, the places I saw there attracted me the most. I was amazed at the "bargain" prices of some of those properties. I guess those are probably mirages that have long since faded.

But thanks for the heads up on kcrhomefinder. I had not discovered that sight in my searches. It looks good. Some nice choices there. Same goes for Premier Homes.

The logistics are becoming a bit of a sticking point between my wife and I. Now that I have made up my mind to go, I'd really prefer to take our time in finding the right house. My preference would be to move over there into a rented house, and check out the MANY options available from what appear to be several very good realtors. My wife, on the other hand, wants to go over by herself and make a choice fairly quickly. Ultimately, I expect that she'll win this one too!

Oh well. It won't be the end of the world. She has excellent taste, and is not likely to be content with a house that I won't also be pleased with. Still, I'd rather take a bit more time exploring the possibilities, and minimize the risk of later saying, "###### it! We could have had THAT one!"

[patsfangr]

. I'll be shipping my own desktop PC, DVR/VCR, and one U.S. TV over there. I'll need the U.S. TV to play the tapes (literally hundreds of them) that I have recorded over the years. I don't believe they'll play on Asian TVs due to the line difference, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think most modern TV's are capable of using both PAL and NTSC formats

totster

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Really? I haven't been keeping up with the technical developments there. I know that when I lived in Shanghai (1996-1998), I had to use my U.S. TV to play tapes from the U.S..

Can anybody verify Totster's belief?

[Totster]

. I'll be shipping my own desktop PC, DVR/VCR, and one U.S. TV over there. I'll need the U.S. TV to play the tapes (literally hundreds of them) that I have recorded over the years. I don't believe they'll play on Asian TVs due to the line difference, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think most modern TV's are capable of using both PAL and NTSC formats

totster

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Really? I haven't been keeping up with the technical developments there. I know that when I lived in Shanghai (1996-1998), I had to use my U.S. TV to play tapes from the U.S..

Can anybody verify Totster's belief?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm trying to verify it myself at the moment..

totster

EDIT - when I say modern I mean manufactured in the last 2-3 years

Edited June 24, 2005 by Totster

[Totster]

Searching around .. it looks I am correct... I reckon if you buy a new TV in LOS it will accept PAL and NTSC...

totster

[patsfangr]

Searching around .. it looks I am correct... I reckon if you buy a new TV in LOS it will accept PAL and NTSC... 

totster 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

COOL! That will save me some shipping costs. I'll just buy when I get there. A nice big screen plasma ought to do it!

[tuky]

. I'll be shipping my own desktop PC, DVR/VCR, and one U.S. TV over there. I'll need the U.S. TV to play the tapes (literally hundreds of them) that I have recorded over the years. I don't believe they'll play on Asian TVs due to the line difference, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think most modern TV's are capable of using both PAL and NTSC formats

totster

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Really? I haven't been keeping up with the technical developments there. I know that when I lived in Shanghai (1996-1998), I had to use my U.S. TV to play tapes from the U.S..

Can anybody verify Totster's belief?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

George, you can buy a VCR here cheap enough that will play all formats,PAL, secam, NTSC (Not The Same Colour twice , an unfortunate format actually) so yuo do not have to worry on that score. Technology is grand huh?

WRT our house, we did go overboard. I am 30 years old so just starting out really. The wife and I decided to go the whole hog, however you can get the same for much less if you want to spend the time researching. Perhaps try some of the banks as they tend have houses/properties for sale that they have repo'd worth a try my friend.

Look forward to meeting you for a beer one night

tuky

[patsfangr]

Look forward to meeting you for a beer one night 

tuky

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm buying! I already feel that I owe this entire Pattaya forum a beer!

[tuky]

Look forward to meeting you for a beer one night 

tuky

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm buying! I already feel that I owe this entire Pattaya forum a beer!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

News Flash...

Newbie has bitten off more than he can chew...read all about it!!!

Headline: Pattaya newbie buys beer all round now cannot afford to buy house.

[Totster]

Look forward to meeting you for a beer one night 

tuky

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm buying! I already feel that I owe this entire Pattaya forum a beer!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

News Flash...

Newbie has bitten off more than he can chew...read all about it!!!

Headline: Pattaya newbie buys beer all round now cannot afford to buy house.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:D

totster

[udon]

George, don't bring anything electrical that cannot be bought in LoS.

You will need a convertor for U.S. made goods, LoS is 220 volts.

Have a read of Aviator's story in "Service" on the Phuket forum.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=32463

Keep in mind that the Cap'n lives in a fairly remote area on the west coast.

Happy shopping

Edited June 24, 2005 by udon

[patsfangr]

Look forward to meeting you for a beer one night 

tuky

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm buying! I already feel that I owe this entire Pattaya forum a beer!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

News Flash...

Newbie has bitten off more than he can chew...read all about it!!!

Headline: Pattaya newbie buys beer all round now cannot afford to buy house.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:D

totster

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, note that I said that "I" feel that I owe everybody a beer. The final judge as to the validity of that debt is a lot smaller, but a lot tougher, and a lot better looking than I!

[tuky]

great to see you have a sense of humour as well George. Your gonna fit right in mate