Corporal Punishment In Schools

[Paul888]

My almost 6 year old told me that she was smacked 5 times by a teacher on the hand with a stick for finishing her work too slow.

She told me today, and it happened yesterday. There are no visible marks and she said that it didn't hurt much but I have always been of the opinion that if anybody is going to smack my child, it should be me, and I choose not to. Never have, and never will on the basis that if I can't communicate what is right and wrong in other ways then I am not doing my job right.

As a kid, I received more than my fair share of smacks at home, and the cane at school once, (deservedly in all cases) and it never done me any harm, but my daughter's mother (now deceased) and her grandmother used to smack her too often and too hard in my opinion, and so I decided that I never would.

I do not plan to do anything this time other than tell my daughter to try to concentrate more on listening to the teacher and less on talking with friends (a known problem) but if it happens again, which I am sure it will, I wanted to canvass some opinions before I wade into the school with my outraged father act.

Is this typical? Does the smack polic vary from school to school, region to region, school type to school type?

I understand we are guests in Thailand and if we choose to educate our children in their education system then we should be subject to their rules, but I would appreciate if anybody else has encountered this, and what if anything they did.

[Firelily]

I have no idea if it is legally prohibited in all government schools or not - someone else may be able to answer that.

In the private school where I work, it is in the teachers' contracts that physical punishment will result in immediate termination.

Before anything else, I think you need to find out how often it happens (does this teacher go on a rampage on a daily basis or was in an unfortunate one-off?), and what the policy is in your daughter's school. If it is clearly spelled out that they have a policy against smacking, you need to follow a different route than you would with an administration that supports such practices. It is easily possible that your daughter's teacher goes against her own school's policy but everyone is choosing to turn a blind eye. Seen that before.

By the way, I teach 6-year-olds, I am yet to see one that works more happily and diligently if yelled at, intimidated or abused. I would also be extra careful with anyone who has an absent or deceased parent, or a messy background. Personally, I would do my best to make sure it won't happen again. Not all Thai schools are such a garbage dump. If she is broken now, she may learn to hate school forever and then you will have a big mess to sort out.

Hope you can sort it out one way or another, good luck.

[sarahsbloke]

Hitting children with a stick appears common in Thailand.

My next door neighbour beats her 3 year old with a stick every couple of weeks, the screams are very disturbing.

If you don't like it, change schools is probably your best answer.

You are a white person, nobody in the school will listen to you.

Edited June 19, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Paul888]

Very helpful reply firelilly, thank you. You seem to be the right kind of teacher.

I agree 100% that young children don't respond well to being bullied or hurried into learning and you are right also that a child who lost her mother less than a year ago deserves a little more compassion and understanding from her teacher. Outwardly she took it in her stride, but it is impossible to think that the loss of your mother would not affect you in many ways, and even a friend telling an innocent story about what she did with her own mother the day before could easily cause her to lose concentration. Whatever the reason for her "slow working" at barely 6 years old it should not be a crime punishable with a stick.

I will speak with the teacher concerned privately tomorrow rather than make a song and dance about it with her superiors and I will ask her for her side of the story about the smacking and explain my views on it, but most importantly I will ensure that she also knows my daughter's background which of course she may not.

She is a Filipino employed to teach English so she should be able to understand the very simple language I will use.

Again thanks for the help, and Sarahsbloke, a thai smacking her own child is a lot different to a teacher smacking somebody else's child. We can't impose our views on how other people deal with their own children but I believe we can and should protect our own children wherever we can.

[dsprtliving]

I have been teaching 5-6 year olds in Thailand for 9 years and i believe that corporal punishment is technically illegal in Thailand. However, having said that, I have witnessed/heard about some extremely disturbing forms of punishment during my first couple of years in education when i first arrived and worked in a couple of Thai schools. Thai teachers are very authoritarian and they are trained/conditioned to maintain an iron fist in the classroom. Humiliation as a form of punishment in front of peers is common, and unfortunately corporal punishment is used to scare children into submission from an early age so they learn not to question their superiors.

Your best bet might be to see if your daughter can be switched to a different class. The teacher may, given that she has shown the propensity to use physical intimidation as punishment, cause further problems for your daughter should you step in and escalate the situation. Children whose parents complain openly are often ignored in class and her educational experience may suffer in the long run as long as she is under this teacher's care. It is of the utmost importance that your little girl develop a positive impression of school at this age, as it will affect the rest of her educational experience in the years ahead. Alternatively, go in and discuss other options available with the teacher for motivating your little one to learn to work more efficiently. I find positive reinforcement works a treat with the little ones in my room such as simple stickers for finishing work on time or even setting up a merit point system to encourage positive behavior in all classroom activities. Sometimes teachers just need a gentle push in the right direction to get em' going and a little memory jog to remind us that we are all still students despite maintaining the facade that we know it all.

[Mario2008]

A teacher is not allowed to hit a student, it is illegal since a year or five. The practise still continues in many schools and is slowly fading out. Part of the problem is that many teachers don't know alternatives for maintaining order.

You can complain to the teacher, the school head or the education area office or even the education ministry to make clear you don't accept it. The more complaints a school get, the moe serius they will take it.

[ilyelol]

im in farangland right now and i recall seeing a documentary on how corporal punishment does lower brain capacity in young children under 8, it was said that smacking was the worse but that smaller punishment still had a decent effect on their future IQ

So, act fast and strongly. Even if this turns out to be a bad documentary, no 1 should hit your children... theres a reason why dogs trained with positive reinforcement are a lot better.

[katana]

There was a case that hit the headlines in Thailand last September when a male teacher was filmed on a mobile beating one of his students. You can read the story and see the video here.

He ended up getting the sack.

[Eureka]

When my daughters teacher decided hitting students was a valid teaching aid she was quick to learn how wrong she was.

The teacher had resorted to hitting 75% of her class as they did not complete a task asigned to her complete satisfaction, my 4 year old daughter being one of the 75%.

It is ILLEGAL to hit a student in the Kingdom of Thailand so the teacher has no reason or custom to justify this criminal act.

I confonted the teacher and gave her a selection of choices to allow a resolution and to prevent the likelyhood of this becoming a common practise.

1. I would have crimminal charges for battery laid against her.

2. An eye for an eye. I explained that as she hit my daughter I should be allowed to reciprocate.

3. She could utilize her training and experience to devise better methods.

Above all else she needed to work on her communication skills. If 75% (her figure) were unable to complete the task something was wrong with either the instructions or the task. As this was assigned by her she is responsible for either setting standards beyond expectations or poor communication.

Her final comment was that some of the Thai parents had requested that she hit their children as required and she accepted this as a validation of her actions.

I explained that regardless of a request from a few parents it was still illegal to hit any child under her care and that I would be extremely defensive of my daughter, legally and physically if necessary.

To end our discussion I pointed out several methods such as "quiet areas" that would be a better alternative and that with her experience and intellect she should have little problem maintaining control without resorting to corporal punishment.

[Paul888]

Well, I went for a quiet word with the teacher, and when I told her I need to speak with you in private, I think she knew exactly what it was going to be about.

I asked firstly if it was true, and she said yes, she had smacked several of the children not just mine. I said, is there not a law against in this in Thailand? I thought there was and she said yes, I think there is but (as Eureka also reported happened to him) she added "some of the parents gave me their permission".

I told her I am not one of those parents, so I don't want to hear about this happening again. I told her I will not discuss it with her boss and I will accept it as a misunderstanding. She said as a parent she understood me and will rethink her teaching style as she would not want a teacher smacking her own child (don't you love the Philippines?) She thanked me for my understanding and not making problems for her, and told me how much she liked my daughter and how helpful she was in her class translating her instructions into Thai for the other children.

As I left, I said, "do you think the extra work she does helping you, might be one of the reasons that she does her own work too slow?". "Ah, yes, maybe." she said.

Anyway, I am hopeful that is the end of it, thanks for all of the replies guys.

Bear in mind though, that for sure this would not have been so easy with a non English speaking Thai teacher doing the smacking.

[MikeyIdea]

Paul, I think you handled the issue in a very tactical way. It is more common that western parents would not see a tactical approach as necessary even and by that of course create even more problems for the poor child

This outdated practice will unfortunately take another generation to totally disappear from the Thai education system

[paulrobertlane]

Hi Guys and especially Paul888

Before i start can i say I know TiT so please no "prostitution is illegal" retorts. I am simply stating the FACTS not here to argue rights and wrongs.

Corporal punishemnt was made illegal in Thailand in 2005 under article 65 of the Child Protection Act 2005 (amendment).

For clarification see http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org/pages/progress/reports/thailand.html

This applies to all schools equally, both private and public. Any school telling you otherwise is ignorant of the law.

There is no such thing as a parental "opt out" - this is a myth. Any school who tells you otherwise is ignorant of the law. It would be ludicrous to have a situation where two kids commit the same offence and one is beaten and the other is not. The law recognises that. (see more below).

Somewhat bizarrely is is still legal in nurseries (under age 4) but with constraints on severity.

So, if it is illegal why does it still happen. There are several reasons which I try to outline below.

1. It is so deeply ingrained in Thai culture that many teachers have simply been unable, or unwilling, to adapt.

2. Many teachers are actually unaware of the law.

3. I believe most common, many teachers (and parents) actualy believe the parental opt out exists. It does NOT! The law was implemented to protect the child and applies ot all children equally. No individual can "opt out" of the law of the land. if a teacher hits a child, with the permision of the parent, that teacher has committed an offence regardless. The teacher in this case clearly falls into this category. A teacher MAY consult with the parent and the parent can (legally) use corproal punishment on the child at home.

4, They hit becasue they can! Action is rarely taken against them and they know this. Action is usualy only taken on a complaint from parents and this is rare. As has been pointed some schools have specific "no striking" clauses and employment contracts but again this is rare.

However..............

What are the recourses available to parents.

1. Discussion with the school. Ensure the head teacher, the teacher concerned and their supervisors are aware of the law and ask for assurances there will be no repeat or you will take the actions below. You should also request that the teacher is either suspended or disciplined in some way.

2. Criminal charges via the police. This is rare as the police tend to refer back to arbitration i.e. you are back to Point 1. The only cases where this is usually pursued is in cases of extreme violence or where the plaintiff wants the teacher to receive a criminal record and prevent them form working elsewhere perhaps.

3. Via the Civil Court. This can be time consuming, lengthy, and expensive.

4. Most common - via the District Court of Education. Every district has one. This is FREE and cases are usually heard within 30 days.

Punishment for teachers in points 2,3 and 4 vary according to curcumstances and the severity of the ofence. However the "standard" fine applied is six months salary - a big financial hit to most teachers. if convicted in a Criminal Cout they also receive a criminal record.

Paul888 I hope that clarifies matters. I admire your tact and your concern for your child. However I think you (inadvertantly) did a mis-service to other kids in the class by not taking the matter at least to the supervisor. It is also possible you did a dis-service to the teacher as she seems unaware that the parental "opt out" does not exist. I would hazard a guess that her contriteness has more to do with the fact she is aware of the 6 month salary fine and less to do with any real intention to change. In my experience child beaters, like wife beaters, are habitual and do not change so be on your guard. If there is a repeat I suggest you are m ore vociferous. As one poster says it wil take a decade or a generation to phase this out but that would be expedited if more people made a bigger fuss.

[g00dgirl]

I think corporal punishment in schools is one of the reasons I would not send my child to any school unless my child requests to go.

I think it is wrong, and there are many other things that are wrong about schools, there is not only physical violence (demanding from young children to still on a chair for a long time is also physical violence in my opinion) but also a lot more psychological violence going on that most people consider to be normal in school.

[g00dgirl]

Two weeks ago a 9 year old Thai boy I know came home from school visibly upset and around the back of his head his short hair was shaved off in 3 spots. His mother told me the teacher did this to signal to the parents that he needs to go and get his hair cut. It was still short, but I guess they want it so short that you can see the skin. The boy seemed intimidated, upset and ashamed and the dad took him right away to get his hair fixed.

He goes to the school at the wat in Rawai, in case anyone from Phuket reads this thread. I consider this another example of physical & psychological violence.

[Mario2008]

Unfortunately, that is very common. Schools still check the hair of their students and will cut some off to force students whose hair is too long to get a hair cut. Some also check the nails of the girls.