Selling Queue Numbers At Vientiane Thai Consulate

[LanxangBillybob]

Kind of funny, a little annoying...

I arrived 30 min. before the doors opened to apply for a visa. Still, there were about 70-80 in front of me. When I finally got to the queue ticket machine, number 285!?!? I decided to go out and take a walk, figuring I would have to wait an hour or two.

A Lao man wearing a Maoist cap comes up to me and says, "You got number?". I showed him my number.

He then pulls out a bunch of queue numbers and asks me to buy one from him.

I asked him how many he had, he said 60. I didn't ask him how much he was selling them for.

I took my walk and came back an hour later. Another hour after that, I was able to turn in my application.

I was just wondering if this is something others have noticed or was it just on the day that I applied?

[gotlost]

Just trying to make a living.

[LanxangBillybob]

<BR>Just trying to make a living.<BR>

<BR><BR><BR>No doubt. Anyway, back to the question - has anyone noticed any queue ticket hoarding for sale in front of the embassy, or maybe for tour agencies that process visa applications? I'm curious, just want to know.

[lopburi3]

It has been reported often here - people go in and come out with handful's to sell later.

[JimmyTheMook]

What is the going rate for a low number ?

[thomo]

What is the going rate for a low number ?

Your integrity.

[tropo]

What is the going rate for a low number ?

Your integrity.

What's the big deal? If you end up in a long queue and have a chance to buy yourself to the front, why would you make your decision based on integrity? Do people think that taking an individual stand on these matters will do away with these type of scams?

It's simply a matter of what your time is worth. If the price is right and I had better things to do with my time than wait for hours in the tropical heat, I'd buy it. It's a bit like choosing to fly to Vientiane or catching a bus. I prefer speed and convenience which always comes at a price.

Edited June 28, 2010 by tropo

[bangkokburning]

What is the going rate for a low number ?

Your integrity.

What's the big deal? If you end up in a long queue and have a chance to buy yourself to the front, why would you make your decision based on integrity? Do people think that taking an individual stand on these matters will do away with these type of scams?

It's simply a matter of what your time is worth. If the price is right and I had better things to do with my time than wait for hours in the tropical heat, I'd buy it. It's a bit like choosing to fly to Vientiane or catching a bus. I prefer speed and convenience which always comes at a price.

You are rationalizing your willingness to feed corruption and sloth. What is worse, they are not providing any value, merely taking numbers you (not they) are entitled to hold and then selling them on to people willing to feed this nonsense (be it 10k kip even).

Instead of working for a living, these guys steal tickets and then sell them back to you - and that is hardly honest work and you are feeding that beast

If no one paid for the tickets - the entire mafia would vanish. The line moves as fast as there are persons in the queue - no matter how many numbers.

Small money for you but reminds me of lazy backpackers in Vietnam. Did not want to walk from the bus station to the backpacker ghetto. Th ecyclo drivers got to asking US1 then demanding it. This for a ride the Viets would pay about US.15...so, they slept in their cyclos, drunk day and night until that 1-2 lazy people came by and paid the rate. If people paid a reasonable price, everyone would have a ride and that guy would not be a drunk.

In Hat Yai - price from bus station on moto is 25-100% higher for farang, take it or leave it. Because of this thinking.

So once the tickets are 10K next they are 30k, not to mention their is something inherently evil about paying scalpers and this scalping something that is free and is a tool so to speak. This is not a music festival or Luk Tung show.

Not to mention that feeding this some early arrivals and people not willing to pay might not get a ticket or get in and it might lead them to need to stay the weekend. Not exactly watching your fellow farang's back...

What am I missing?

[thomo]

What am I missing?

Not your integrity and sense of right.

Congrats.

The line moves as fast as there are persons in the queue - no matter how many numbers.

Yes, a rather simple concept to grasp. Those who idiotically buy free ticket numbers to skip the queue are probably those go straight to the front of the BTS queue and stand in front of the doors, and barge into lifts before the people inside get to walk out.

Patience, honour, manners and integrity are virtues. Obviously some are unfortunate enough not to possess these.

[basjke]

Why you need to buy a number,if you don't buy you move 60 places to the front anyway.

[tropo]

What am I missing?

Not your integrity and sense of right.

Congrats.

The line moves as fast as there are persons in the queue - no matter how many numbers.

Yes, a rather simple concept to grasp. Those who idiotically buy free ticket numbers to skip the queue are probably those go straight to the front of the BTS queue and stand in front of the doors, and barge into lifts before the people inside get to walk out.

Patience, honour, manners and integrity are virtues. Obviously some are unfortunate enough not to possess these.

Take it easy with your adjectives please. I'm a realist, not an idiot. This has nothing to do with queue jumping at train stations.

I would have to say the crusaders who take a stand in a futile attempt to somehow wipe out corruption and scams in SE Asia are the idiots. Do these crusaders believe that the Embassy staff are not aware of the "scam"? Of course they are. Your "soap boxing" will not help in the slightest.

(A couple of weeks ago when I was there the ticket machine was broken, so these scammers have got to make up for lost income and they're obviously hard at it)

It's a simiple concept:

A. Buy a ticket to save an hour of waiting.

B. Don't buy a ticket, wait the extra hour and go home believing you've done right and you're one step closer to heaven.

Results:

A. Saved an hour for a low negotiated amount.

B. Taken a futile stand because there are too many A's of a different religion who would prefer to save time.

Some advice for the B's on here. Leave the soap box at home and arrive after 10am. It's a lot faster than queueing up at 7am before the gates open...and don't go on a Monday or after a public holiday. The Filipino community have a convoy hitting Vientiane several times a week and they hold positions in the queue before the gates open. I remember back a couple of years ago in my silly days when I used to get there an hour before the gates opened, they were already be there in force. I was about 20th from the gate when I arrived, but after the gates opened my number was about 130.

These days I avoid all of this and have an agent take care of transport and queues for 500 baht.

To all the A's out there who may be feeling a little guilty because of 'B' ideology. Your token payment for a low ticket may be helping to feed a poor family.

[bangkokburning]

I will not use any special services or transport on my visa run

I will walk to the embassy in the cool of the morning

I will take the ticket that I am allotted

I will wait my turn

I will never use an agent to procure anything for me

I will not feel sorry for people in the least if they can't feed their families because I am not willing to essentially hand them money - FREE. Might as well stick a gun in my back as hold a ticket ransom. Maybe they ought to get out of the racket and find a way to make an honest living. Stealing tickets is not honest. Something for nothing is not honest. I do not feel this lot in the least. Let them all starve. Lazy scammers - and you can bet that there is money to go round with the staff at the embassy AND they will get your money from the ticket even if you are denied a visa. Pretty good deal for everyone except me.

I didn't stand for it in Penang and I won't stand for it here.

And yes, if you don't feed it - it will die on the vine. What is worse, this is entirely about foreigners. Its not even something locals suffer so you suffer with them.

It's not about an "Asian sensibility" or the way "they" do things. Ask any Asian whether they like paying tea money or bribes, I am sure it irks them more than us often times. Malaysia and Singapore have virtually wiped out much of this nonsense. Better for it.

[thomo]

I would have to say the crusaders who take a stand in a futile attempt to somehow wipe out corruption and scams in SE Asia are the idiots.

What on Earth are you talking about?

Being on a crusade would be reporting them to the police and authorities, and pushing for charges against them.

I simply don't avail of their service, and view those who do as being unmannerly, impatient, and selfish. And suffering from lack of personal integrity.

Truly distasteful character traits. The same as I view those who barge into lifts (elevators for you Americans).

Your "soap boxing" will not help in the slightest.

Edited June 29, 2010 by thomo

[JimmyTheMook]

What is the going rate for a low number ?

Your integrity.

Integrity? , 'visa running' using the pretense of being a tourist while attempting to live in Thailand for an extended stay ?

So how much for a ticket to jump the Que. instead of waiting around in the heat and or rain like cattle ...

[tropo]

I will not use any special services or transport on my visa run

I will walk to the embassy in the cool of the morning

I will take the ticket that I am allotted

I will wait my turn

I will never use an agent to procure anything for me

I will not feel sorry for people in the least if they can't feed their families because I am not willing to essentially hand them money - FREE. Might as well stick a gun in my back as hold a ticket ransom. Maybe they ought to get out of the racket and find a way to make an honest living. Stealing tickets is not honest. Something for nothing is not honest. I do not feel this lot in the least. Let them all starve. Lazy scammers - and you can bet that there is money to go round with the staff at the embassy AND they will get your money from the ticket even if you are denied a visa. Pretty good deal for everyone except me.

I didn't stand for it in Penang and I won't stand for it here.

And yes, if you don't feed it - it will die on the vine. What is worse, this is entirely about foreigners. Its not even something locals suffer so you suffer with them.

It's not about an "Asian sensibility" or the way "they" do things. Ask any Asian whether they like paying tea money or bribes, I am sure it irks them more than us often times. Malaysia and Singapore have virtually wiped out much of this nonsense. Better for it.

You're sounding like a religious zealot. I don't think a soap box is what you need, you could use a pulpit instead.

If Malaysia and Singapore have "virtually wiped out much of this nonsense", then why are you applying for visas for Thailand?

Edited June 29, 2010 by tropo

[Naam]

Yes, a rather simple concept to grasp. Those who idiotically buy free ticket numbers to skip the queue are probably those go straight to the front of the BTS queue and stand in front of the doors, and barge into lifts before the people inside get to walk out.

Patience, honour, manners and integrity are virtues. Obviously some are unfortunate enough not to possess these.

you mean some Farang living since years in Thailand, has never seen the inside of an immigration office and is willing to spend a certain amount of his money to make his comfortable life even more comfortable and hassle free does not possess any virtues and is therefore unfortunate?

[bangkokburning]

If it were not for my Thai girlfriend, I would be perfectly happy spending only the cool season here. Thailand is now as expensive as Malaysia. I have India (Himachal Pradesh and Ladakh) and Indonesia (Flores, Banda, etc) for exceptional snorkeling. My love affair with Thailand ended years ago when they tightened the visas and inflation hit. Then there is the political chaos (for those that live and travel outside Pattaya).

Malaysia has little coral and no nice places to live on the coast

Singapore, same and is expensive as states, but I honestly like the place more the older I get. I'd rather be holding S$ than THB as well.

OK, so I am a zealot for clean governance. Shoot me.

Namm - You need only look what a mess Samui has become to see what the long term costs become by "making things a bit easier".

Edited June 29, 2010 by bangkokburning

[kudroz]

What is the going rate for a low number ?

Your integrity.

What's the big deal? If you end up in a long queue and have a chance to buy yourself to the front, why would you make your decision based on integrity? Do people think that taking an individual stand on these matters will do away with these type of scams?

It's simply a matter of what your time is worth. If the price is right and I had better things to do with my time than wait for hours in the tropical heat, I'd buy it. It's a bit like choosing to fly to Vientiane or catching a bus. I prefer speed and convenience which always comes at a price.

The &$%*! guy had 60 numbers - that's a big &$%*! deal. The headless &$%*! have nothing better to do than hump 60 tickets off the &$%*! ticket machine to then sell the tickets? You don't see the big deal? These &$%*! monkeys need to get a life and bring some value to their shit poor country instead of pulling shit stunts off their ass. &$%*!.

Edited June 29, 2010 by kudroz

[RudieTheFoodie]

A Riddle.

You are presented with the following two scenarios - which would take longer

1: A tout snatches up 3 tickets, no one buys one, when the numbers are called they flick through them quickly (As the staff are aware of the scam, and the tout obviously doesn't really want a visa)

2: A tout snatches up 100 tickets, no one buys one, when the numbers are called they flick through them quickly (As the staff are aware of the scam, and the tout obviously doesn't really want a visa)

Answers on a TV postcard to

"The moral of the story is don't buy one"

[FarangCravings]

After 5 or so trips to Vietienne I saw this happening and one time I had the guys outside fill the forms out for me and they said oh very busy today you want number I looked over and saw nobody there as I arrived one hour after they opened the gate I said no went right in and was out within 3o minutes.

I think if it was real busy might be a service but the way it is right now you dont really wait more than an hour if that so its not worth it to me

[tropo]

If it were not for my Thai girlfriend, I would be perfectly happy spending only the cool season here. Thailand is now as expensive as Malaysia. I have India (Himachal Pradesh and Ladakh) and Indonesia (Flores, Banda, etc) for exceptional snorkeling. My love affair with Thailand ended years ago when they tightened the visas and inflation hit. Then there is the political chaos (for those that live and travel outside Pattaya).

Malaysia has little coral and no nice places to live on the coast

Singapore, same and is expensive as states, but I honestly like the place more the older I get. I'd rather be holding S$ than THB as well.

OK, so I am a zealot for clean governance. Shoot me.

It must be tough for you living in SE Asia. You seem to think that taking a stand can help. Have you ever succeeded in stamping out government corruption in SE Asia? Did you ever become personally involved in any action aimed at stamping out corruption over here?

[bangkokburning]

The personal action I take is that I do not pay bribes and inform the person grubbing for one I will not do so. I am willing to do what is required (the extra time/effort), that is about all I can do.

Withholding money is the best and only fight here for the individuals. What are needed are laws and enforcement. I am merely a visitor with an interest in a Thai national. I own no land, I possess no long term visa. Even for locals, it is all they can do as well.

Thailand will continue to descend down the dark path of corruption at all levels. I expect it to look much like the Philippines does now in about a decade - if we have a few more years of riots and unstable gov't that will be a clincher for me..

I guarantee you that if half the people bought tickets, the other half would be forced to do so - and then the prices would go up as well. So, I see my "crusading" is my self interest as well. All this nonsense about people filling out your forms, stealing tickets, special buses, flying in general, charging silly amounts for tuk tuk rides within Vientiane. This is all your guys doing - it's spawned out of laziness and your perception that the cost "is cheap". You have the disposable income, it's hot - why not? 150B to go from the river to the visa office is not cheap. In fact, that ride in BKK in an AC taxi would be about B40.

Same with the visa - if I front up and denied a visa. I don't use some corrupt mafia service - I leave (for awhile). They don't want my money - fine. Be it Vientiane or Penang. I don't grovel to stay here. I don't pay tea money. I move on. I am in fact a long stay - tourist.

There comes a time when a nation breaks from the corruption and cannot climb back out of the morass. Philippines, Indonesia, Lao and India are prime examples. Thailand is not far behind. Broken, failed states that have all seen their best days.

[thomo]

I have respect for self and others.

Shame this is missing from some.

Relax with a book and iced latte for 30 minutes, and enjoy the show that is the average Tourist Visa farang.

Queue jumping is for ignorant, unmannerly, idiots. I'm glad that I was raised much better than them.

Edited June 30, 2010 by thomo

[tropo]

The personal action I take is that I do not pay bribes and inform the person grubbing for one I will not do so. I am willing to do what is required (the extra time/effort), that is about all I can do.

Withholding money is the best and only fight here for the individuals. What are needed are laws and enforcement. I am merely a visitor with an interest in a Thai national. I own no land, I possess no long term visa. Even for locals, it is all they can do as well.

Thailand will continue to descend down the dark path of corruption at all levels. I expect it to look much like the Philippines does now in about a decade - if we have a few more years of riots and unstable gov't that will be a clincher for me..

I guarantee you that if half the people bought tickets, the other half would be forced to do so - and then the prices would go up as well. So, I see my "crusading" is my self interest as well. All this nonsense about people filling out your forms, stealing tickets, special buses, flying in general, charging silly amounts for tuk tuk rides within Vientiane. This is all your guys doing - it's spawned out of laziness and your perception that the cost "is cheap". You have the disposable income, it's hot - why not? 150B to go from the river to the visa office is not cheap. In fact, that ride in BKK in an AC taxi would be about B40.

Same with the visa - if I front up and denied a visa. I don't use some corrupt mafia service - I leave (for awhile). They don't want my money - fine. Be it Vientiane or Penang. I don't grovel to stay here. I don't pay tea money. I move on. I am in fact a long stay - tourist.

There comes a time when a nation breaks from the corruption and cannot climb back out of the morass. Philippines, Indonesia, Lao and India are prime examples. Thailand is not far behind. Broken, failed states that have all seen their best days.

The people "scamming" at the Thai Consulate are Laotian, not Thai. You'll have to clean up two countries at once.

All your preaching, foot stompinig and head banging is in vain simply because too many other people without your religious beliefs enjoy being somewhere where money can buy concenience. Perhaps you should marry your Thai sweetheart and find some utopia where governance is clean.

[mxyzptlk]

I'm not a crusader either but I refuse pay these touts also. I believe in integrity and fair play and was lampooned when I posted my experience of not paying 500 baht to a tout @ Poipet to jump the queue and get my passport stamped ahead of all the other people who were queueing patiently.....

[gotlost]

I'm not a crusader either but I refuse pay these touts also. I believe in integrity and fair play and was lampooned when I posted my experience of not paying 500 baht to a tout @ Poipet to jump the queue and get my passport stamped ahead of all the other people who were queueing patiently.....

Integrity and fair play in this part of the world or on this form?

[My Friend Same]

I'd pay that dude for a low number in a heartbeat.

[Naam]

I'd pay that dude for a low number in a heartbeat.

that means you are an "unfortunate" one without virtues!

[bangkokburning]

The people "scamming" at the Thai Consulate are Laotian, not Thai. You'll have to clean up two countries at once.

All your preaching, foot stompinig and head banging is in vain simply because too many other people without your religious beliefs enjoy being somewhere where money can buy concenience. Perhaps you should marry your Thai sweetheart and find some utopia where governance is clean.

Indeed, they are Laotian and I have no more empathy for them. Even less. Crap government and people get the govt they deserve. Maybe they ought to be trying to change the government instead of being reduced to begging tickets. People forget what a crap commie government that is there in Lao.

My belief system has nothing to do with religion. I am in fact, an atheist.

It is not in vain, things can change one snubbed bribe at a time. Even better to call them a common thief. You are simply defending the indefensible - weakly. These people make astonishing amounts of money off the corruption. They are the same people that splash water on me as they drive by in their cheap Mercedes and don't give me berth when I am on foot. As if I cannot afford one of those stupid oil burning monsters. As if I care about that stupid emblem on their hood of their car.

I'm not interested in slagging you, you are quite helpful to this board. But it appears that it is your money that has bought your conscience.

Thanks for your advice on what I should do with my life. I've been here for more or less 17 years, traveled nearly every breath and stretch of the country, Same goes for all the neighboring countries as well. You?

It is possible that we will in time return to the states. I am not overly optimistic about the way the nation is headed. I can easily see us spending the cool season here touring the Andaman (until the coral is totally dead and the fish stock entirely depleted) and the Indian Himalaya in the Summer. I can see a life without her if that happens. I cannot predict the future. I have always taken this and every country as it comes. If I am really at odds with the people or the nation, I leave. Sometimes I don't go back - say, to a dump like the Philippines and that lot.

I used to have a Khmer girlfriend back in the states many years back. She had a friend come visit her. My lovely girlfriend so helpful to all, even those she did not know well, helped them for months settle their lives. The husband went back to Cambodia and the new fledgling govt. He got a job in the govt and someone got himself in the middle of the income stream that collects revenue for flyover rights. He came back to states about 18 mos later - new car, gold, all thee cheap trappings of what youd expect poor, uneducated people to do with new found money. Was so arrogant and condescending to my girlfriend I almost knocked the guy out. HIs wife was not much better. My poster child of what hapens to people and our money when it ends up in these said hands.

That's all I have to say. I think I'm done with the thread.

Corruption - bad

Feeding corruption - shame on you (who ever you may be)

Peace -

[tropo]

Corruption - bad

Feeding corruption - shame on you (who ever you may be)

Peace -

Shame on you for calling people who don't mind spending a bit to save an hour or two "idiots". That's the real problem here - your insults thrown at anyone who doesn't get on your bandwagon.

You keep bringing up the Philippines as an example of how corruption has made a country go bad. This is total nonsense. The Philippines was never good at any stage since Westerners occupied her.

I'll give you an example from the Philippines: My wife's mother goes to the LTO once a year to register her motorcycle. For 100 peso she gets it done in 30 minutes or less. If she doesn't pay it will take a day or more. She's an idiot for spending 100 peso to save a day or more? No, she'd be an idiot if she can afford it and didn't pay it. According to your brilliant philisophy she should not pay it and waste a day in a futile attempt to stop these type of scams.

Edited June 30, 2010 by tropo