Cost Of Diesel And Bio Diesel In Thailand?

[Marksamui]

Hi, does anyone know what are the current market prices of the two products?

Thanks

[Deeral]

"ordinary diesel is about 28 /29 baht litre.

THe govt subsidises the cost.

Sorry don't drink bio.

[phutoie2]

PTT B2 Diesel 29.20 Baht per litre, B5 (Bio) 1 Baht less. (Central Thailand price)

Inching up to 30 Baht a litre.

Some time back now but Abhisit promised to keep diesel below 30.

[gotlost]

Today's Bangkok Price Diesel 28.89 and B5 27.99

[katabeachbum]

<BR>PTT B2 Diesel 29.20 Baht per litre, B5 (Bio) 1 Baht less. (Central Thailand price)<BR>Inching up to 30 Baht a litre.<BR>Some time back now but Abhisit promised to keep diesel below 30.<BR>

<BR><BR><BR>B5 is subsidised to be cheaper than ordinary diesel. Bio is still more expensive to manufactor, but since its made domestically it reduces dollar spending on import

[phutoie2]

Thanks I am up to date with B2/B5. I used to put B5 from the Green Leaf garage in town in my 07 Navara truck.

Went for a service recently and told to stop using it by the guys in the Nissan dealership!!.

For the OP , you can find up to date prices daily on the Thai petroleum companies websites, I like the BANGCHAK companies garages (Green Leaf), they are building several new outlets the further North you travel from Bangkok.

Here

[katabeachbum]

<BR>Thanks I am up to date with B2/B5.  I used to put B5 from the Green Leaf garage in town in my 07 Navara truck.<BR>Went for a service recently and told to stop using it by the guys in the Nissan dealership!!.<BR><BR>For the OP , you can find up to date prices daily on the Thai petroleum companies websites, I like the BANGCHAK companies garages (Green Leaf), they are building several new outlets the further North you travel from Bangkok.<BR><BR><A class=bbc_url title="External link" href="http://www.bangchak.co.th/en/Service-Station.aspx" rel="nofollow external">Here</A><BR>

<BR><BR>phutoie2, did Nissan dealer tell you to stop using B5 or stop using Green Leaf diesel? Heard several complains about the quality of Green Leafs Ethanol and Bio<BR>

[HDRIDER]

http://www.eppo.go.th/retail_prices.html

[phutoie2]

No just B5 in general, mainly from PTT & Green leaf, been using it for at least 8k km's with no apparent after effects. Well without looking deep into the engine!!

One thing I have noticed about going back to normal diesel, black smoke again on heavy acceleration!!

I recall reading on PTT's website that super B5 was suitable for all modern common rail engines.

Sorry to hijack thread, but nothing much happening this morning.

[katabeachbum]

No just B5 in general, mainly from PTT & Green leaf, been using it for at least 8k km's with no apparent after effects. Well without looking deep into the engine!!

One thing I have noticed about going back to normal diesel, black smoke again on heavy acceleration!!

I recall reading on PTT's website that super B5 was suitable for all modern common rail engines.

Sorry to hijack thread, but nothing much happening this morning.

Ptt/government has been very optimistic when promoting B5, and damaged fuelsystems and/or engines is the result. But since late 2008 it seems like all LOS commonrail diesels can handle B5 without problems. Several manufactorers like Volvo, BMW, Benz can not sell last gen diesel tech here due to diesel quality.

Advantage of B5 is as you say less black smoke, Bio keeps engine cleaner, or is it just the decrease of sulphur content due to 5% bio?

My truck is white, so whenever I go long distance with open hatch due to Ninja 650R in the back, I use low sulphur Shell VPower Euro IV to avoid smoking the hatch/rear

[soundman]

Just to cause more confusion, PTT's Diesel, B2 has now changed to B3 as of about two weeks ago, most likely in preperation for a shift from B5 to B10 sometime in the future.

Retail price difference b/w Diesel B3 & B5 is currently 90 Satang per litre.

[Marksamui]

No just B5 in general, mainly from PTT & Green leaf, been using it for at least 8k km's with no apparent after effects. Well without looking deep into the engine!!

One thing I have noticed about going back to normal diesel, black smoke again on heavy acceleration!!

I recall reading on PTT's website that super B5 was suitable for all modern common rail engines.

Sorry to hijack thread, but nothing much happening this morning.

I don't know why they would suggest that you stop using B5 in general. It should be the same as B2 or B3, it is just the biodiesel content on the fuels. I have heard that from next year all diesel sold in Thailand must be B5 biodiesel, so looks like you will be using it again soon.

On the whole biodiesel is actaully better from your engine.

[katabeachbum]

No just B5 in general, mainly from PTT & Green leaf, been using it for at least 8k km's with no apparent after effects. Well without looking deep into the engine!!

One thing I have noticed about going back to normal diesel, black smoke again on heavy acceleration!!

I recall reading on PTT's website that super B5 was suitable for all modern common rail engines.

Sorry to hijack thread, but nothing much happening this morning.

I don't know why they would suggest that you stop using B5 in general. It should be the same as B2 or B3, it is just the biodiesel content on the fuels. I have heard that from next year all diesel sold in Thailand must be B5 biodiesel, so looks like you will be using it again soon.

On the whole biodiesel is actaully better from your engine.

So why does biodiesel destroy valves, gaskets, orings in fuelsystem? Visible and very noticeable damage.

And why does most car manufactorers outside LOS warn against using biodiesel before they had adapted their fuelsystems to handle it in 2008?

3% biodiesel is not as aggresive as 5% biodiesel, just like E10 versys E20. Most petrol engines after 2006 can run E10, most cant run E20.

[Marksamui]

No just B5 in general, mainly from PTT & Green leaf, been using it for at least 8k km's with no apparent after effects. Well without looking deep into the engine!!

One thing I have noticed about going back to normal diesel, black smoke again on heavy acceleration!!

I recall reading on PTT's website that super B5 was suitable for all modern common rail engines.

Sorry to hijack thread, but nothing much happening this morning.

I don't know why they would suggest that you stop using B5 in general. It should be the same as B2 or B3, it is just the biodiesel content on the fuels. I have heard that from next year all diesel sold in Thailand must be B5 biodiesel, so looks like you will be using it again soon.

On the whole biodiesel is actaully better from your engine.

So why does biodiesel destroy valves, gaskets, orings in fuelsystem? Visible and very noticeable damage.

And why does most car manufactorers outside LOS warn against using biodiesel before they had adapted their fuelsystems to handle it in 2008?

3% biodiesel is not as aggresive as 5% biodiesel, just like E10 versys E20. Most petrol engines after 2006 can run E10, most cant run E20.

You should be good on biofuels upto B20 now.

It really depends on the specs of the bio as much as the specs of the standand fuel going into the blend, as everywhere will be different, and just becuase you buy B5 does not actaully mean that would be that blend.

However biofuels made to correct spec should not damage engines and there should be no need to adapt your fuel systems.

[katabeachbum]

No just B5 in general, mainly from PTT & Green leaf, been using it for at least 8k km's with no apparent after effects. Well without looking deep into the engine!!

One thing I have noticed about going back to normal diesel, black smoke again on heavy acceleration!!

I recall reading on PTT's website that super B5 was suitable for all modern common rail engines.

Sorry to hijack thread, but nothing much happening this morning.

I don't know why they would suggest that you stop using B5 in general. It should be the same as B2 or B3, it is just the biodiesel content on the fuels. I have heard that from next year all diesel sold in Thailand must be B5 biodiesel, so looks like you will be using it again soon.

On the whole biodiesel is actaully better from your engine.

So why does biodiesel destroy valves, gaskets, orings in fuelsystem? Visible and very noticeable damage.

And why does most car manufactorers outside LOS warn against using biodiesel before they had adapted their fuelsystems to handle it in 2008?

3% biodiesel is not as aggresive as 5% biodiesel, just like E10 versys E20. Most petrol engines after 2006 can run E10, most cant run E20.

You should be good on biofuels upto B20 now.

It really depends on the specs of the bio as much as the specs of the standand fuel going into the blend, as everywhere will be different, and just becuase you buy B5 does not actaully mean that would be that blend.

However biofuels made to correct spec should not damage engines and there should be no need to adapt your fuel systems.

So you are saying B5 in LOS is not made to correct spec, or diesel vehicles being damaged by B5 in LOS are no good?

Please let us know which vehicle manufactorer accepts warranty claims on a vehicle running B20. I dont know any.

Until early 80s a typical 3000cc diesel had 80-90 hp. They could run 50% biofuel without major problems, even cooking oil. Exhaust smelled like french fries.

today LOS 3000cc has double that power, and bmw 2000cc has 188 hp and benz 2150cc comes with 205 hp. They are very specific on what fuel is needed, as most modern diesel engines. No B20 for sure.

Edited June 29, 2010 by katabeachbum

[Marksamui]

So you are saying B5 in LOS is not made to correct spec, or diesel vehicles being damaged by B5 in LOS are no good?

Please let us know which vehicle manufactorer accepts warranty claims on a vehicle running B20. I dont know any.

Until early 80s a typical 3000cc diesel had 80-90 hp. They could run 50% biofuel without major problems, even cooking oil. Exhaust smelled like french fries.

today LOS 3000cc has double that power, and bmw 2000cc has 188 hp and benz 2150cc comes with 205 hp. They are very specific on what fuel is needed, as most modern diesel engines. No B20 for sure.

Attached is a publication from biodiesel.org

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/oems/

but I will cut and past the relevant section

--quote--

Engine companies do not manufacture fuel or fuel components. Therefore, engine companies do not warranty fuel - whether that fuel is biodiesel or petrodiesel fuel. Since engine manufacturers warranty the materials and workmanship of their engines, they do not warranty fuel of any kind. If there are engine problems caused by a fuel (again, whether that fuel is petrodiesel fuel or biodiesel fuel) these problems are not related to the materials or workmanship of the engine, but are the responsibility of the fuel supplier and not the engine manufacturer. Any reputable fuel supplier (biodiesel, petrodiesel, or a blend of both) should stand behind its products and cover any fuel quality problems if they occur.

Therefore, the most important aspect regarding engine warranties and biodiesel is whether an engine manufacturer will void its parts and workmanship warranty when biodiesel is used, and whether the fuel producer or marketer will stand behind its fuels should problems occur.

Most major engine companies have stated formally that the use of blends up to B20 will not void their parts and workmanship warranties. This includes blends below 20% biodiesel, such as the 2% biodiesel blends that are becoming more common. Several statements from the engine companies are available on the NBB website. Some engine companies have already specified that the biodiesel must meet ASTM D-6751 as a condition, while others are still in the process of adopting D-6751 within their company or have their own set of guidelines for biodiesel use that were developed prior to the approval of D-6751. It is anticipated that the entire industry will incorporate the ASTM biodiesel standard into their owner's manuals over time

--end quote--

However there can be problems with higher biodiesel in cold weather etc. which should be of no problem in Thailand. Also it is going to depend on the age of your vehicle. However the real factor comes down to the specs of what you are buying which are always different. B5 is never necessarily B5, can actaully be much higher..

[katabeachbum]

So you are saying B5 in LOS is not made to correct spec, or diesel vehicles being damaged by B5 in LOS are no good?

Please let us know which vehicle manufactorer accepts warranty claims on a vehicle running B20. I dont know any.

Until early 80s a typical 3000cc diesel had 80-90 hp. They could run 50% biofuel without major problems, even cooking oil. Exhaust smelled like french fries.

today LOS 3000cc has double that power, and bmw 2000cc has 188 hp and benz 2150cc comes with 205 hp. They are very specific on what fuel is needed, as most modern diesel engines. No B20 for sure.

Attached is a publication from biodiesel.org

http://www.biodiesel...resources/oems/

but I will cut and past the relevant section

--quote--

Engine companies do not manufacture fuel or fuel components. Therefore, engine companies do not warranty fuel - whether that fuel is biodiesel or petrodiesel fuel. Since engine manufacturers warranty the materials and workmanship of their engines, they do not warranty fuel of any kind. If there are engine problems caused by a fuel (again, whether that fuel is petrodiesel fuel or biodiesel fuel) these problems are not related to the materials or workmanship of the engine, but are the responsibility of the fuel supplier and not the engine manufacturer. Any reputable fuel supplier (biodiesel, petrodiesel, or a blend of both) should stand behind its products and cover any fuel quality problems if they occur.

Therefore, the most important aspect regarding engine warranties and biodiesel is whether an engine manufacturer will void its parts and workmanship warranty when biodiesel is used, and whether the fuel producer or marketer will stand behind its fuels should problems occur.

Most major engine companies have stated formally that the use of blends up to B20 will not void their parts and workmanship warranties. This includes blends below 20% biodiesel, such as the 2% biodiesel blends that are becoming more common. Several statements from the engine companies are available on the NBB website. Some engine companies have already specified that the biodiesel must meet ASTM D-6751 as a condition, while others are still in the process of adopting D-6751 within their company or have their own set of guidelines for biodiesel use that were developed prior to the approval of D-6751. It is anticipated that the entire industry will incorporate the ASTM biodiesel standard into their owner's manuals over time

--end quote--

However there can be problems with higher biodiesel in cold weather etc. which should be of no problem in Thailand. Also it is going to depend on the age of your vehicle. However the real factor comes down to the specs of what you are buying which are always different. B5 is never necessarily B5, can actaully be much higher..

Most interesting seen from a biodiesel promotor.

However

My question remains unanswered. Which vehicle manufactorer (if any) would honor a warrantyclaim on engine/fuelsystem if B20 has been used? I still dont know any.

I have not seen any vehicle manufactorer or fuelsystem manufactorer like Bosch, Denso, Conti or ACDelco, recomending the use of B20. Most of them have just recently accepted B5, thats 5% biodiesel blended in 95% diesel with a sulphur content of approx 600 to qualify as EuroIII diesel .

Edited June 29, 2010 by katabeachbum

[Marksamui]

New Holland is one....

[katabeachbum]

New Holland is one....

New Holland is a tractor, low power large displacement engines.

I was wondering about modern commonrail highpower diesels in vehicles available in LOS. You know like Mitsu, Toyota, Izu, Chevy, Hino, Mazda, Ford, Benz, BMW, Volvo, VW, Tata, the list goes on. The ones who presently have to deal with unhappy owners due to B5 damages.

So question remains, which one honors warranty if engine or fuelsystem is damaged when using B20? Or recomends using more Bio than 5%?

Edit Hino should not be on the list of highpower modern diesels, and its actually not even happy with EuroIII spec sulphur, it wants more sulphur to live long. very long with much sulphur and no bio

Edited June 29, 2010 by katabeachbum

[Marksamui]

I think both DaimlerChrysler and Ford have vehicles available now which they warranty upto B20.

The trouble is there is a lack of specs on B20 so offical warranty is not standard yet.

You are correct that most approve B5 or still do not approve any at all yet.

[katabeachbum]

I think both DaimlerChrysler and Ford have vehicles available now which they warranty upto B20.

Not in LOS.