Electrical Earth In Thai Room?

[thaibeachlovers]

Sorry, it's probably the wrong forum, but I can't get back to the main forum list- just get a blank screen!!!!! This problem has happened before, since the new system came in. Must be a few glitches!

Mods, please move to correct forum.

I bought a new fridge, but it needs to be earthed, and my rented room has no earths on the electrical sockets. Can't use the water pipes ( plastic ), and has a nice tiled floor, concrete walls. Concrete road outside, so can't bang in a steel rod.

Any suggestions?

Any helpful suggestions appreciated, thanks.

[Crossy]

A knotty problem indeed.

Is there access to any structural steel, roof trusses etc? I know it seems counter-intuitive to be looking in the roof space for a ground, but they are usually welded to the re-bar which will form a 'reasonable' (i.e. better than no) ground.

[bkkbill]

If you see a blank screen just scroll down one page and you will see the beginning of the thread.

[bankruatsteve]

It SHOULD be grounded but it doesn't have to be to work. Just screw the ground wire into the floor then. After all that's what you will be standing on if anything (which probably won't) does create a fault.

[Donnyboy]

It SHOULD be grounded but it doesn't have to be to work. Just screw the ground wire into the floor then. After all that's what you will be standing on if anything (which probably won't) does create a fault.

screw the ground onto a tiled floor? eh?

dont think that will work too well

[bankruatsteve]

It SHOULD be grounded but it doesn't have to be to work. Just screw the ground wire into the floor then. After all that's what you will be standing on if anything (which probably won't) does create a fault.

screw the ground onto a tiled floor? eh?

dont think that will work too well

Think about it.

[Donnyboy]

It SHOULD be grounded but it doesn't have to be to work. Just screw the ground wire into the floor then. After all that's what you will be standing on if anything (which probably won't) does create a fault.

screw the ground onto a tiled floor? eh?

dont think that will work too well

Think about it.

yup i have, a tiled floor is non conductive, may as well not bother

besides, i dont think the owner of the room will be happy with a hole in their nice tiled floor

Edited July 2, 2010 by Donnyboy

[eefoo]

I bought a new fridge, but it needs to be earthed, and my rented room has no earths on the electrical sockets. Can't use the water pipes ( plastic ), and has a nice tiled floor, concrete walls. Concrete road outside, so can't bang in a steel rod.

Any suggestions?

Any helpful suggestions appreciated, thanks.

Nothing electrical NEEDS to be earthed to work, it's merely a safety feature. Is your question more along the lines of "I've just bought a new fridge and it has a three pin plug on it, but all my sockets are two pin"? If this is the case - cut the plug off and put a two pin plug on it and your new fridge will work just like a new fridge.

[Thaifan2]

Dear Thai beach lover ,you expect an earth wire in Thailand ? you come across on many threads as very nieve .

[trogers]

my rented room has no earths on the electrical sockets

I wonder. Is there any water/shower heater in the bathroom, and if yes, is that earthed?

[Artisi]

my rented room has no earths on the electrical sockets

I wonder. Is there any water/shower heater in the bathroom, and if yes, is that earthed?

More than likely not, but if it is, it's probably the normal method of a plastic wall plug inserted in the wall with the earth wire attached to it with a self-tapping screw. Works wonders, just ask any Thai sparky.

[David006]

Would not worry about it mate..many appliances don't have a three pin plug anyways ( fans kettles, blenders some rice cookers.) easy to snap off ground pin...

It might be advisable to get the polarity right though... a neon screwdriver tester will work for the outlet but you'd need a meter for the fridge plug...although maybe someone out there can remember which pin is neutral on the three pin plugs... if indeed it is standard.

[Crossy]

Would not worry about it mate..many appliances don't have a three pin plug anyways ( fans kettles, blenders some rice cookers.) easy to snap off ground pin...

It might be advisable to get the polarity right though... a neon screwdriver tester will work for the outlet but you'd need a meter for the fridge plug...although maybe someone out there can remember which pin is neutral on the three pin plugs... if indeed it is standard.

I nearly deleted the above post, instead I'll allow the poster to explain why he believes it to be OK and safe to remove the ground pin of a Class 1 device.

[Artisi]

Would not worry about it mate..many appliances don't have a three pin plug anyways ( fans kettles, blenders some rice cookers.) easy to snap off ground pin...

It might be advisable to get the polarity right though... a neon screwdriver tester will work for the outlet but you'd need a meter for the fridge plug...although maybe someone out there can remember which pin is neutral on the three pin plugs... if indeed it is standard.

I nearly deleted the above post, instead I'll allow the poster to explain why he believes it to be OK and safe to remove the ground pin of a Class 1 device.

You don't really expect a sensible reply, do you?. I would allow no more than 10 minutes for a reply before deleting it.

[InterestedObserver]

Even us outcasts from National Electrical Code (NEC) land cannot remove the ground blade (pin) from a plug assembly.

[longball53098]

The OP has not been back here to clarify or point out anything new here. In the original post he says the new fridge "needs" to be grounded but he has no way to do so. He never specifically says the cord is a three prong cord. Do we assume it is? Or? Is this one of the type of appliances the comes with the two pin plug and no ground pin. I don't know the nomenclature but I will call this a modified Schuko plug.

My water cooler and my washer came with this style plug and then a separate green wire(about 1 meter long) was hanging on the rear of the appliance attached to the device's frame and one would assume meant to be used as an ground attachment.

My new fridge came with a standard non polarized two pin plug and no ground needed per the book.

Edited July 3, 2010 by longball53098

[PoorSucker]

If it has three pins, buy an extension cord with three pins.

When the "handy man" installed my washing machine he "grounded" it by a screw between the base of wall and tiling.

[InterestedObserver]

When the "handy man" installed my washing machine he "grounded" it by a screw between the base of wall and tiling.

Grounded to what, the floor tile?

[tom21]

it seems strange to me that a standard domestic frig needs earthing but if it does why not run a wire to the ground i assume the room has a window

[thaibeachlovers]

I bought a new fridge, but it needs to be earthed, and my rented room has no earths on the electrical sockets. Can't use the water pipes ( plastic ), and has a nice tiled floor, concrete walls. Concrete road outside, so can't bang in a steel rod.

Any suggestions?

Any helpful suggestions appreciated, thanks.

Nothing electrical NEEDS to be earthed to work, it's merely a safety feature. Is your question more along the lines of "I've just bought a new fridge and it has a three pin plug on it, but all my sockets are two pin"? If this is the case - cut the plug off and put a two pin plug on it and your new fridge will work just like a new fridge.

No, it has a two pin plug, AND a seperate earth wire.

My concern is if I don't earth it, and the instructions make it very clear that it does need to be earthed, and something goes wrong, they may use that as an excuse to void the warrenty ( which I paid extra for ).

Thanks for all the replies. As for going outside, the balcony is same flooring as inside. I've looked for anything to earth it on without success, inside and out.

For the poster suggested the roof, I've several ( concrete ) floors above, but thanks for the thought.

I think I'll go with the screw into the concrete wall.

[PoorSucker]

Moved my washing machine for you.

[Crossy]

No, it has a two pin plug, AND a seperate earth wire.

My concern is if I don't earth it, and the instructions make it very clear that it does need to be earthed, and something goes wrong, they may use that as an excuse to void the warrenty ( which I paid extra for ).

Thanks for all the replies. As for going outside, the balcony is same flooring as inside. I've looked for anything to earth it on without success, inside and out.

For the poster suggested the roof, I've several ( concrete ) floors above, but thanks for the thought.

I think I'll go with the screw into the concrete wall.

If you can hit a re-bar the screw in the wall may just work, but I'm really loathe to recommend it. Does the balcony have a metal railing that could be of use?

The problem with any of these makeshift grounds is that you have no way of testing that it's any good, until you get zapped. I DO have the kit (I also have a proper ground) it may be interesting to see just how good these iffy grounds really are.

It's highly unlikely that you'll void the warranty by running it without the ground.

Do you have an RCD (Safe-T-Cut) installed? (vital on an ungrounded system).

[David006]

Would not worry about it mate..many appliances don't have a three pin plug anyways ( fans kettles, blenders some rice cookers.) easy to snap off ground pin...

It might be advisable to get the polarity right though... a neon screwdriver tester will work for the outlet but you'd need a meter for the fridge plug...although maybe someone out there can remember which pin is neutral on the three pin plugs... if indeed it is standard.

I nearly deleted the above post, instead I'll allow the poster to explain why he believes it to be OK and safe to remove the ground pin of a Class 1 device.

apologies to all for causing any distress or confusion among the sparky fraternity hereon.

ouch! I did not say it was okay or suggest removing a ground pin... I said it was easy...obviously I do not wish to advocate unsafe practices but from a practical point of view...

...perhaps from your vastly superior knowledge base you may care to give us a heads up as to why so many appliances and electrical devices are not equipped with grounding options with unpolarised plugs ( not just in Thailand!), I hardly think they are better isolated judging by the the standard of internal wiring I have observed? Are the marketers of three to two pin adapters to be publicly admonished?

Incidentally have just checked out our new fridge,rice cooker,water cooler and washer...all have Shuko? plugs ( effectively having a snapped off ground pin?)and hence not grounded to three pin GFI protected outlets...perhaps I should change the plugs...?

[David006]

No, it has a two pin plug, AND a seperate earth wire.

My concern is if I don't earth it, and the instructions make it very clear that it does need to be earthed, and something goes wrong, they may use that as an excuse to void the warrenty ( which I paid extra for ).

Thanks for all the replies. As for going outside, the balcony is same flooring as inside. I've looked for anything to earth it on without success, inside and out.

For the poster suggested the roof, I've several ( concrete ) floors above, but thanks for the thought.

I think I'll go with the screw into the concrete wall.

If you can hit a re-bar the screw in the wall may just work, but I'm really loathe to recommend it. Does the balcony have a metal railing that could be of use?

The problem with any of these makeshift grounds is that you have no way of testing that it's any good, until you get zapped. I DO have the kit (I also have a proper ground) it may be interesting to see just how good these iffy grounds really are.

It's highly unlikely that you'll void the warranty by running it without the ground.

Do you have an RCD (Safe-T-Cut) installed? (vital on an ungrounded system).

It is not common knowledge ( for most of us atleast) but grounding that is not bonded(hard wired) back to the service panel neutral ( i.e. isolated ground rod or other option) will NOT necessarily trip a breaker...so effectively a ground not so connected is false security...better a GFI methinks

Grounding to a Water Pipe

Don't try this experiment at home!

A bare 12 gauge copper wire was inserted into the hot wire side and the voltage was confirmed by meter to be 120 volts. It was touched directly to a cold water pipe and did not trip the breaker! This is a copper pipe and extends without interruption directly out into the earth.

The DC resistance from both the ground and neutral electrical terminals to that copper pipe was measured and found to be essentially zero. The digital ohmmeter measured about 1 ohm or less to the pipe. If the earth were acting as a simple ohmic conductor back to the ground at the service box, it would have conducted 120 amperes and would have immediately tripped the breaker.

[electau]

Earthing of electrical equipment. Earthing an item of electrical equipment using a short length of flexible copper conductor, ( green or green /yellow) and bolting it to a 6mm x 25mm dynabolt to the wall about 150mm to one side of the socket outlet complies with Thai wiring practice and it actually forms equipotentially bonding.

It is not designed to carry fault current but will minimise the risk of touch voltages appearing which cause minor electrical shocks from leakage currents.

All building materials such as concrete and block work etc are electrically conductive.

An RCD should also be installed. In the event of an earth fault the RCD will trip.

Note this method of earthing would not comply with AS/NZ 3000 or current IEC requirements. However being non compliant does not make it electrically unsafe.

3 pin plug top adaptors are available to convert to a 2 pin standard Thai socket, and they have an earth lug fitted for this purpose.

A number of Thai electrical appliances are fitted with 2 pin plug tops and comply with Thai Industrial Standards (TIS).

[Crossy]

Earthing of electrical equipment. Earthing an item of electrical equipment using a short length of flexible copper conductor, ( green or green /yellow) and bolting it to a 6mm x 25mm dynabolt to the wall about 150mm to one side of the socket outlet complies with Thai wiring practice and it actually forms equipotentially bonding.

Electau. Do you have a copy of any Thai electrical wiring regulations / practices that relate to domestic installations? Many, many posters on this forum, both real and armchair sparkies would be very interested.

Thai or English would be acceptable.

[InterestedObserver]

Electau. Are you advocating the use of a Dynabolt in place of a good old fashioned ground rod?

Edited July 5, 2010 by InterestedObserver

[Crossy]

Electau. Are you advocating the use of a Dynabolt in place of a good old fashioned ground rod?

I have an earth-loop impedance tester (yes the proper piece of kit a Robin KTS 1630 Advanced Digital Multi Function Meter), anyone got a dynabolt?

I think I'll do some tests on these makeshift earths, the results would be interesting.

[elkangorito]

I can hardly wait for David...oops, I mean electau, to reply.

[powderpuff]

All building materials such as concrete and block work etc are electrically conductive.

What kind of crazy talk is this?