Bangkok Takes Stern Step Against Roaming Elephants Owners

[robertson468]

How do you "confiscate" an elephant....

The same way as you put an elephant in the fridge - d-u-u-u-u-u:cheesy:

[asiawatcher]

How do you "confiscate" an elephant....

Put him in roller skates - easier to move!

[Netfan]

<br>another wonder of Thailand going away.<br>

<br><br>yeah, pity about that. just a couple of years ago i saw a young elephant on sukhumvit, afraid to move. its owner was beating the crap out of it with the stick- nice shots to the head that went "CRACK" every time one landed. . sorry i won't get to see that anymore. they really do belong on the streets of bangkok, don't they. anyway, maybe this "crackdown" is why i saw one in hua hin over the weekend. 

[ableguy]

<BR>How do you "confiscate" an elephant....<BR>

<BR><BR><BR><BR>with grear difficulty.

[ableguy]

why does my replies have thesse marks before them ?

[Nacho]

Why is it criminal to feed an elephant but not a street dog or pigeons?

-feet made for mud, not concrete : they burn

-eyes sore with pollution

-ears made to pick up sounds miles around the jungle immersed in heavy traffic .

-possible stories of drugged elephants .

-finally, a mad elephant will charge ; or just a clumsy elephant will back up on your toes.

-they were made illegal 15 years ago already.

That isn't the question which is "Why is it illegal to purchase food to feed an elephant?"

The BMA has recently imposed a stern regulation, banning mahouts from bringing their elephants into Bangkok. Violators will be subject to a 6-month jail term or a 10,000-THB fine. The law, which has been put in effect since 22 June, also applies to people who buy food for the elephants.

I don't see how buying food for an animal can be deemed illegal. If Somchai brought a pet "lion" on a chain into Central Bangkok, it might be extremely dangerous, but I wouldn't presume it would be illegal for someone to purchase food for it. But then again of course, I don't write or interpret the crazy laws in this country.

Per se, if I had a pet elephant in my back garden, and a friend bought food for it, that would be illegal???????????

What if you give the food for free? Is that legal?

I can't wait for the headline "Foreigners arrested for feeding elephant"

This new law seems to be for Bangkok only. Althought I think it should be implimented in all larger cities within the country. The reason for it being illegal is it is well documented as being cruel to these large animals living within a major city. They have made this law to try to put a stop to this. Anyone who really wants to feed an elephant should go to one of the elephant parks around the country where the elephants are most likely enjoying their lives.

[jayjay0]

<BR>

<BR>another wonder of Thailand going away.<BR>

<BR>No they belong in a refuge and treaded with dignity not out in the street<BR>for some idiot tourist to look at. I know this forum love to bash any thing American <BR>but it has been for centuries now in their federal parks been against the law to feed any wild animal and to keep nature in tact. We have a elephant refuge in Chiang Rai come up here <BR>it is run wonderful for the animals and tourist and enjoy.<BR>

<BR>I am quite sure you have a nice home for elephants.

Why is a tourist walking down the street who sees a elephant a idiot? But one who spends a lot of money to go to Chiang Rai where he can spend more money to see a elephant not a idiot. You talk about treating them with dignity yet you pen them up and refuse to let them run wild witch is the natural thing for them to do.

Not that I approve of elephants on the street but what is the alternative for them. Will they be fed and medically taken care of or just penned up until they die. To be fair how are they treated by the handlers who take them on to the streets? To be sure many of them are mistreated but is the alternative any better?I agree with most of the points a previous poster put up. However the reason they have big ears is to help regulate there body temperture. Yes the streets must be hard on there feet.

Edited July 3, 2010 by jayjay0

[Patsycat]

I haven't seen an elephant in Bangkok for months, so this policy seems to be working already.

They used to keep them over at the corner of Rama IX and the entrance to the Ram Inthra Expressway - way out Ekkamai, basically. There are a couple of green fields over there in the BMA compound. Ran into the elephants while jogging through the brush a couple of times, scared the hel_l out of me. Ran into the owners too, they tried to sell me yaba, heh. They keep their hooves chained to a tire at night to keep them from roaming. Didn't look at all pleasant for the animals (not counting having to wander up and down Sukhumvit). Glad to hear they're being repatriated to somewhere hopefully more natural. Haven't seen them there in months either, so I hope that's the case.

I don't think nelephants have hooves.

[sunnythai]

The BMA has recently imposed a stern regulation, banning mahouts from bringing their elephants into Bangkok. Violators will be subject to a 6-month jail term or a 10,000-THB fine. The law, which has been put in effect since 22 June, also applies to people who buy food for the elephants.

And the government wonders why tourism is down? Some unknowing tourist that buys food for the elephant that is there illegally, is subject to the same fine as the manhout. Brilliant! That's sure to encourage people to tell their friends what a great place Thailand is to visit.

What they neep to do is post sign in all hotels warning about the fine.

[kuffki]

I wonder when they do the crackdown on roaming ladyboys?

And how about rather then cracking down on elephant owners they introduce license prior anyone being able to purchase an elephant.

Most if not all of those who bring elephants into the city make a living from the tourist and thats how they feed the gentle giants, now that they can not-how will they feed them or wil they feed them at all?

[Thai at Heart]

This new law seems to be for Bangkok only. Althought I think it should be implimented in all larger cities within the country. The reason for it being illegal is it is well documented as being cruel to these large animals living within a major city. They have made this law to try to put a stop to this. Anyone who really wants to feed an elephant should go to one of the elephant parks around the country where the elephants are most likely enjoying their lives.

I think you are misunderstanding my point. Of course elephants shouldn't be paraded around cities to essentially beg for food.

I am questioning the issue as to why it is illegal to buy food for an elephant and feed it, other than to entrap people who are buying food and prosecute them? I don't understand how it can be illegal to feed and animal standing (be it illegally) in front of me. It is one thing to put up signs to say "please don't encourage elephant begging by feeding them", to making it an offence to do so.

I can imagine the headlines when Tom the tourist is fined for feeding an elephant, but the Mahout and elephant merrily go on their way. Whilst it can be arranged to return elephants to their natural habitat, Somchai the copper is not going to do it.

[dantilley]

I am questioning the issue as to why it is illegal to buy food for an elephant and feed it, other than to entrap people who are buying food and prosecute them? I don't understand how it can be illegal to feed and animal standing (be it illegally) in front of me. It is one thing to put up signs to say "please don't encourage elephant begging by feeding them", to making it an offence to do so.

I thought it would be quite obvious really - the thing that keeps (kept) the elephants on the streets of Bangkok is the money received by their mahouts as they go up to people begging, and they pay 20 Baht or so for the privilege of feeding an elephant. If you make it an offense to do so, less people will pay to feed the elephants, and so there's more chance their presence in Bangkok will be less lucrative, so they'll disappear more quickly. And there's no need to worry about the elephant going hungry - the tiny amount of food each person gets to give the elephant wouldn't even register in the daily food intake that an elephant requires.

I can imagine the headlines when Tom the tourist is fined for feeding an elephant, but the Mahout and elephant merrily go on their way. Whilst it can be arranged to return elephants to their natural habitat, Somchai the copper is not going to do it.

Common sense would dictate that they'd more more lenient with tourists who probably won't know that what they're doing is illegal. But, I doubt they'll systematically go around fining people for feeding the elephants - it sounds more like they're trying to cut the problem off at the source, by preventing the elephant from being there in the first place. This thing about the feeding being illegal is more about the message conveyed I think - they're saying "there's no point in bringing the elephant into town anyway, as we're making it illegal to feed them, so why bother".

And, on another point, it's not just a touristy thing. I've seen begging elephants before way off the tourist trail - and Thais, it seems, are much more willing to feed the elephants than tourists are.

Edited July 3, 2010 by dantilley

[Jimi007]

The BMA has recently imposed a stern regulation, banning mahouts from bringing their elephants into Bangkok. Violators will be subject to a 6-month jail term or a 10,000-THB fine. The law, which has been put in effect since 22 June, also applies to people who buy food for the elephants.

And the government wonders why tourism is down? Some unknowing tourist that buys food for the elephant that is there illegally, is subject to the same fine as the manhout. Brilliant! That's sure to encourage people to tell their friends what a great place Thailand is to visit.

What they need to do is post sign in all hotels warning about the fine.

I disagree. What they need to do is keep the elephants out of Bangkok, and not make another stupid discriminatory law against unaware tourists! Typical Thai Police, they never go after and solve the problem, they just look at it as another source of income for them! The are inept and corrupt to say the least... No wonder no one in Thailand respects them.

[Deeral]

Oh my GOSH! - thai is such a shock! I've NEVER HEARD OF THIS BEFORE! - .........NOT!

[cifreak]

Chang chang chang chang chang, nong kei hen chang rue pleu....

[jimbo38]

We have a elephant refuge in Chiang Rai come up here.========= Where in Chiang Rai is this refuge??

Edited July 3, 2010 by jimbo38

[Nelorie]

<br>

<br>

<br>

<font color="#1c2837"><font size="2">The BMA has recently imposed a stern regulation, banning mahouts from bringing their elephants into Bangkok. Violators will be subject to a 6-month jail term or a 10,000-THB fine. The law, which has been put in effect since 22 June, also applies to people who buy food for the elephants.<br></font></font>

<br>And the government wonders why tourism is down? Some unknowing tourist that buys food for the elephant that is there illegally, is subject to the same fine as the manhout. Brilliant! That's sure to encourage people to tell their friends what a great place Thailand is to visit.<br>

<br><br>No Kidding!<br>I have woken up some mornings and realized my "small brain" must have been in charge of the last few decisions the previous night. <br>But not even my "small brain" could come up with something this moronic.<br>

<br>I remember the first time I saw an elephant in BKK, I was sitting in a small bar outside by the street and I was a little drunk.  I just looked around and there he was and it scared the crap out of me.  I got over it quick though and bought some bananas for it and the man took it away.  Since then I have seen them many times in BKK except lately they seemed to have disappeared from the sceen.  Didn't mind them too much as I was coming out of Nana night there was one in the entrance and it was so big that with all the food stalls you could not get around it, so had to stay and watch people feed it.  Man you know it costs a lot to feed those bad boys and I doubt that if they connot go out on the street that a owner can maintain them.<br>

<br><br>The people who bring in the elephants are like most thai - dirt poor.  they are only trying to make a living.  I recognise that it is not good for the animal.  So, it is again up to Thais to provide meaningful work for these financialyl poor people.<br><br>

[andyww]

Yawn, crackdowns on elephants in BKK happen every 2 years or so, we were getting overdue for another. No news here.

[dutchweller]

Why is it criminal to feed an elephant but not a street dog or pigeons?

Apprently its actually an offence to feed stray dogs in Bangkok.

just as usual no one follows the rules

[Thai at Heart]

Common sense would dictate that they'd more more lenient with tourists who probably won't know that what they're doing is illegal. But, I doubt they'll systematically go around fining people for feeding the elephants - it sounds more like they're trying to cut the problem off at the source, by preventing the elephant from being there in the first place. This thing about the feeding being illegal is more about the message conveyed I think - they're saying "there's no point in bringing the elephant into town anyway, as we're making it illegal to feed them, so why bother".

And, on another point, it's not just a touristy thing. I've seen begging elephants before way off the tourist trail - and Thais, it seems, are much more willing to feed the elephants than tourists are.

And there you have the very nub of the problem about writing laws that rely on the "common sense" interpretation of the BIB. That is why you have "law makers" to write laws and police to enforce them, not use "common sense".

I am sure Somchai the copper will see the perfect logic in turning a blind eye to a money making opportunity by using "common sense" . I mean, the BIB are famed for their common sense approach to law enforcement which normally revolves around sitting under a tree waiting for a person to ride by with no helmet. Common sense dictates that it is the easiest and simplest way to feather one's pocket and is infinitely less effort than doing silly things like actively enforcing laws and catching far more nefarious criminals which often entails things like working.

Law enforcement,Thailand, Thai Police, corruption and "common sense" all nicely blended for a wonderfully simple way to solve the problem.

I will remember the "common sense" defence if I get nicked.

"Come on Mr. Policeman, please use some common sense."

Edited July 3, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[johnno2]

i think its only elephants wearing red shirts that they are cracking down on

[samjaidee]

The BMA has recently imposed a stern regulation, banning mahouts from bringing their elephants into Bangkok. Violators will be subject to a 6-month jail term or a 10,000-THB fine. The law, which has been put in effect since 22 June, also applies to people who buy food for the elephants.

And the government wonders why tourism is down? Some unknowing tourist that buys food for the elephant that is there illegally, is subject to the same fine as the manhout. Brilliant! That's sure to encourage people to tell their friends what a great place Thailand is to visit.

No Kidding!

I have woken up some mornings and realized my "small brain" must have been in charge of the last few decisions the previous night.

But not even my "small brain" could come up with something this moronic.

Don't you think it might just be a mis-translation.

I would guess that it meant "care-giver' i.e. the person who actually buys its food to maintain a subsistence level for the animal.

Most mahouts almost certainly work for somebody else so it would mean the man higher up the chain would also get punished. Sound like a good idea to me!

Edited July 3, 2010 by samjaidee

[hunglikea]

An adult elephant can consume 140–270 kg (300–600 lb) of food a day. A baby elephant needs it's mother's milk. A mahout cannot provide either of these begging on the streets!! :realangry:

[thaisomchai]

Two points:<br>First I am happy that NNT got it right. These are NOT "stray" elephants! "Roaming" will do fine.<br><br>Secondly . .I have only seen begging elephants that have been well cared for. I am against any kind of animal cruelty, but I fail to see the simple act of taking an elephant around a city or town as "cruel".<br><br>They are domesticated animals here; . . .like horses and cows . . .and their traditional domesticated use ( logging) has been eliminated. So now they have another "occupation" and it is a dam_n sight easier on them than logging! <br><br>They are a part of the Thai scene. I like to see them around and I am delighted when I come across one. Regulate them, insist on their good care of course.<br><br>If the animal cruelty activists want to get involved here in Thailand, worry about the millions of half dead dogs, the inhumane way farm animals are treated before slaughter . .go to your nearest wet market and see fish, turtles and other creatures kept in horrible conditions while they wait to be sold. <br><br>The elephants are the least of your worries here; .believe me. 

Edited July 3, 2010 by thaisomchai

[Jimi007]

No Kidding!I have woken up some mornings and realized my "small brain" must have been in charge of the last few decisions the previous night. But not even my "small brain" could come up with something this moronic.

I remember the first time I saw an elephant in BKK, I was sitting in a small bar outside by the street and I was a little drunk. I just looked around and there he was and it scared the crap out of me. I got over it quick though and bought some bananas for it and the man took it away. Since then I have seen them many times in BKK except lately they seemed to have disappeared from the scene. Didn't mind them too much as I was coming out of Nana night there was one in the entrance and it was so big that with all the food stalls you could not get around it, so had to stay and watch people feed it. Man you know it costs a lot to feed those bad boys and I doubt that if they connot go out on the street that a owner can maintain them.

The people who bring in the elephants are like most thai - dirt poor. They are only trying to make a living. I recognise that it is not good for the animal So, it is again up to Thais to provide meaningful work for these financially poor people.

That was a mess I couldn't read it, sorry I had it clean it up.

But in my opinion, it's the lack of education that keeps the masses in their unfortunate fate of life here. Just as anywhere else in the world. But who want's to pay to educate the masses, when you can use them as cheap labor? It's a problem worldwide.

[hunglikea]

Two points:<br>First I am happy that NNT got it right. These are NOT "stray" elephants! "Roaming" will do fine.<br><br>Secondly . .I have only seen begging elephants that have been well cared for. I am against any kind of animal cruelty, but I fail to see the simple act of taking an elephant around a city or town as "cruel".<br><br>They are domesticated animals here; . . .like horses and cows . . .and their traditional domesticated use ( logging) has been eliminated. So now they have another "occupation" and it is a dam_n sight easier on them than logging! <br><br>They are a part of the Thai scene. I like to see them around and I am delighted when I come across one. Regulate them, insist on their good care of course.<br><br>If the animal cruelty activists want to get involved here in Thailand, worry about the millions of half dead dogs, the inhumane way farm animals are treated before slaughter . .go to your nearest wet market and see fish, turtles and other creatures kept in horrible conditions while they wait to be sold. <br><br>The elephants are the least of your worries here; .believe me. 

Khun Somchai. This is animal cruelty! The city is not an elephants habitat and the mahouts do not feed them enough. Most are given YaBa to calm them down and inhibit hunger pangs! Yes there are other wrongs in this country but first sort out the "Chang" national symbol problem before puppy selling and illegal invertebrate sales in markets!

[Deeral]

You're not "Nelorie the elephant" by any chance?

Edited July 3, 2010 by Deeral

[Jimi007]

Two points: First I am happy that NNT got it right. These are NOT "stray" elephants! "Roaming" will do fine. Secondly . .I have only seen begging elephants that have been well cared for. I am against any kind of animal cruelty, but I fail to see the simple act of taking an elephant around a city or town as "cruel".They are domesticated animals here; . . .like horses and cows . . .and their traditional domesticated use ( logging) has been eliminated. So now they have another "occupation" and it is a dam_n sight easier on them than logging! They are a part of the Thai scene. I like to see them around and I am delighted when I come across one. Regulate them, insist on their good care of course. If the animal cruelty activists want to get involved here in Thailand, worry about the millions of half dead dogs, the inhumane way farm animals are treated before slaughter . .go to your nearest wet market and see fish, turtles and other creatures kept in horrible conditions while they wait to be sold. The elephants are the least of your worries here; .believe me.

Please use the preview button, as I couldn't understand what you were saying with the formating issues on your post. But I agree with what you are saying. Elephants are revered here in Thailand and are relatively well cared for. But still I though when I saw them on the streets being used for begging, I didn't personally care for it... I thought the red light on it's tail was somewhat amusing though... Edited July 3, 2010 by Jimi007

[hunglikea]

"I thought the red light on it's tail was somewhat amusing though..."

F'n eejot!

Somewhat amusing!!!

It helps to stop them being killed by drunken drivers!!!!!!!

[Deeral]

Two points: First I am happy that NNT got it right. These are NOT "stray" elephants! "Roaming" will do fine. Secondly . .I have only seen begging elephants that have been well cared for. I am against any kind of animal cruelty, but I fail to see the simple act of taking an elephant around a city or town as "cruel".They are domesticated animals here; . . .like horses and cows . . .and their traditional domesticated use ( logging) has been eliminated. So now they have another "occupation" and it is a dam_n sight easier on them than logging! They are a part of the Thai scene. I like to see them around and I am delighted when I come across one. Regulate them, insist on their good care of course. If the animal cruelty activists want to get involved here in Thailand, worry about the millions of half dead dogs, the inhumane way farm animals are treated before slaughter . .go to your nearest wet market and see fish, turtles and other creatures kept in horrible conditions while they wait to be sold. The elephants are the least of your worries here; .believe me.

Please use the preview button, as I couldn't understand what you were saying with the formating issues on your post. But I agree with what you are saying. Elephants are revered here in Thailand and are relatively well cared for. But still I though when I saw them on the streets being used for begging, I didn't personally care for it... I thought the red light on it's tail was somewhat amusing though...

I'm so sad to repeatedly see this kind of profound ignorance about animal welfare repeatedly propounded on these types of threads........it is SO wide of the mark one wouldn't know where to start.

The above poster is absolutely clueless.

It would take an age to set him right - so may I suggest you just spend ten minutes on google or in a library and get in line with the issues.