Policeman Kills 2 Over Red Light

[basjke]

Reminds me about the incident a few years ago in pattaya where a policeman off duty shoots 2 people because they pour water on him and his children on songkran day.

[bkk_mike]

There are so many ways this should have gone differently.

When a policeman stops you for running a red light - do you

1. - Say "sorry officer, I didn't see the light".

2. - Say "sorry officer, but I thought you waved me through".

3. - Say "screw you officer - I ran the red light on purpose because I'm in a hurry and I know your boss so I can get you demoted for stopping me."

Common sense says the last option is not the option to use when speaking to an armed police officer in ANY country, especially when you're in the wrong. (and, to be brutally honest, is the sort of response that makes you question if the person was drunk or stoned...)

Obviously the policeman is in the wrong as taking out his gun and killing them is a massive overreaction, but they weren't shot just because they ran the red light. They were shot because they got into a huge argument with a man they knew was armed.

Edited June 29, 2005 by bkk_mike

[khunlungphudhu]

While not condoning what happened in any way, and not wishing to detract in any way from the tragedy, I cannot help feeling some sympathy for the cop!

He was forty nine years old, had reached the rank of senior staff sergeant, so for how many years had he been coping with directing traffic driven by 'morons'?

I think I would have flipped after about ten minutes of Thai traffic.

Might lead to some thought towards disarming cops on traffic duty(?)

[Nam Kao]

I hope the girl makes it... I doubt she bad mouthed the Copper

[sneef]

i can not believe that i waited till the third page to see anyone with a really good suggestion... rather than slaggin people or countries or politicians or thais

Disarm the traffic police... give them pepper spray instead.

Only in America where highway patrol and traffic duty can be deadly should a traffic policeman have a gun....

Sneef

[samuislander]

I don't condone the act, but I understand the emotion, heat of the moment as it were, overwork, hot weathers and lack of training are contributing causes to these problems. I am sure everyone has reached this point at some time, it's whet we do and how we react that seperate people wnder stress, what ever it may be.

Samuislander

[kayo]

Thai temper rage,very dangerous,is it unique to thais or all of asia?.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course, people outside of Thailand or Asia don't have temper rage

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True - Never seen anything but pure peace and harmony elsewhere.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Snoophound, snoop around

Edited June 29, 2005 by kayo

[Merlin]

[...snip]

Obviously, the guy had reached his limit, and it might not be his fault.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what a load of bovine droppings.

Who's fault was it then?

[kayo]

The phsycology: It all seems eerily similar to the way a certain Kanchanaburi cop lost his cool not so very long ago.

[oljoe]

Just got pushed over the edge; there have been cases in the Philippines of police superintendents arging over a PARKING SPACE and blowing each other away woth their .45 cannons!

[WISteve]

"Disarm the traffic police... give them pepper spray instead."

Right. And when the next moto gang shoot-out starts maybe they can throw paper swans at them?

Don't blame the gun, blame the criminal (or nut case?) behind the gun!

Proper psychological screening instead of giving the jobs away to the connected families might be a start. Training of the officers to use only the minimum level of force needed at the time would also be in order. Radios and handcuffs would have been the correct tools for this officer, not his firearm.

Police officers all over the world deal with A LOT of verbal abuse every day! If they aren't trained to deal with it or psychologically prepared for it, things can go terribly wrong.

My heart goes out to the four families involved.

~WISteve

[IsaanAlex]

<snip>

There is no excuse whatsoever for a policeman to shoot unarmed people who weren't physically threatening him.

Especially because he 'lost face'. Time to ###### grow up!

And for those apologists, (again with the apologists ), we know that isolated cases can happen in the west. There's still no comparison between there (the West) and here. It's a hollow 'argument'; it's just really...grasping.

IA

Admin edit: inappropriate language removed

/Admin

Edited June 30, 2005 by george

[OxfordWill]

So basically they argued with an armed man. I am really surprised they were Thai as I automatically assumed it would have been a farang. I wonder how the media would have handled it had it been farang victims instead, because by the sound of it this particular guy was ready to 'pop' at the next insult.

[Martin]

I hope the girl, and the cop, pull through.

Expect to hear (just hear, mind you) that the verdict on the deaths of the two shot dead was "suicide".

If there is a statement "The two died because they gave unpardonable offence to an armed policeman, who had been very stressed and they had wound up further, and that is tantamount to suicide" some reporter who can't cope with a lot of words will just pick up on, and announce, "suicide"!!!!!

There is a lesson here for all of us---in Thailand we would be wise to behave like Thais expect decent people to behave.

Smooth over trouble spots.

If only that pick-up driver had said "Sorry, but I am in an awful hurry to get to market" he would probably have got "Mae pen lai, on your way then, and good luck with the day's business".....instead of which......

[jomama]

At my wife's office the people feel sory for the policeman, she said.

(I see this morning that both he and the woman have died as well).

[Johpa]

I bet alot of these meltdowns come from living in such big city. People stacked on top of people will drive some people nuts, no matter what race you are.

I would not call Fang a big city depsite it growth over the past 20years.

Methinks social relativism can only take you so far. So at some point I have no qualms about cristicizing such aspects of Thai culture.

My opinion is that the reason Thais seem to totally lose their composure is that they are not allowed to have much experience with anger. They are taught from a young age to "jai yen yen" and taught not to exppress raw emotions. That is quite different than in the western cultures where temper tantrums are part of the cultural milieu and it is acceptable to "let off steam" and learn how to control such emotions.

This is certainly not an isolated incident where a Thai has gotten angry over a perceived personal offense and gone off the deep end resulting in a death. It is perhaps a little more unusual that it involved a policeman. But in the rural villages it is not all that rare.

[spencer]

What a bunch of &lt;deleted&gt; monkeys these Thais are sometimes.

For the (Thai policeman) apologists, you should go shoot yourself in the head if you think what he did was acceptable.   There is no excuse whatsoever for a policeman to shoot unarmed people who weren't physically threatening him.

Especially because he 'lost face'.   Time to &lt;deleted&gt; grow up!

And for those apologists, (again with the apologists ), we know that isolated cases can happen in the west. There's still no comparison between there (the West) and here. It's a hollow 'argument'; it's just really...grasping. 

IA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Remember that we are living in a country where they actually have a law in the criminal code that you can go to jail for making someone lose face in public. This tells me that making someone lose face in public is taken very seriously here. It also states that the police man was on his way back to his motorcycle (which means he already told these idiots that they could leave) and they YELLED at him from a distance so that EVERYONE in the imediate area could hear the insults. These dark brown uniforms have to be hot. Try putting on a thick dark brown uniform then stand in the sun for 3 hours while trying to direct traffic where most people do not know how to drive. With all of this heat and stress throw in some idiot that runs a red light with school children crossing the street with the piss poor excuse of "I am late for the market". To top it off have that same idiot insult you in front of a crowd of people that you see every single day after you had already let him go instead of arresting him. Good combination for a mental breakdown. No one can say for 100% what they would do in a similar circumstance unless they have been in it.

I have to admit that i get pissed off when I see someone do something stupid that could injure children.

I very seldom lose my temper but being in the heat all day makes me lose my temper much easier than I otherwise would. Maybe they should give the traffic police a light colored uniform since they are the ones that have to stand in the sun for 2-3 hours at a time each day.

[manjara]

i can not believe that i waited till the third page to see anyone with a really good suggestion... rather than slaggin people or countries or politicians or thais

Disarm the traffic police... give them pepper spray instead.

Only in America where highway patrol and traffic duty can be deadly should a traffic policeman have a gun....

Sneef

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unbelievable! If having a gun is a bad idea over here, then it's equally a bad idea in the USA.

In what way is it any more deadly in the USA? Do you think that no-one here in Thailand carries guns?

Or perhaps I am missing some sarcasm in your post? Please enlighten me.

[Bilko]

<snip>

Any guy that is carrying a loaded gun has the potential to kill, and some humans have a lot less tolerance than others.

Humans with guns are dangerous the same way a human that smashes a glass in your face is dangerous, or the human that attacks you with a baseball bat is dangerous, these events are not unique to Thailand or Thais, they are Human events that happen all over the world on a daily basis.

We human beings are part of a species that does not just kill sometimes in a blind rage, humans kill other humans all the time, over money jealousy, love, hate, greed, envy, and in Thailand and many many others countries ' Face '.

I wish he had of reacted like a monkey, but he didn't, he reacted like a Human.

Edited June 30, 2005 by george

[ChiangMaiMike]

Me thinks many people have guns here...

And after reading an account of the incident in this mornings "The Nation" I am not at all surprised the idiot got shot, assuming that this report is accurate, but that's a big assumption.

I think the reason Thais are so polite (superficially) is that 'face' is a really important thing and confrontations rapidly escalate to the point of death.

Quite different from the West, and something that every farang who lives here should understand, even though farangs have no 'face' so are often cut a lot of slack.

In case you haven't figured it out... It's called a "Land of a Thousand Smiles" not because lot's of people smile, but because they have a smile for every occassion... including a smile that says "Don't you realize I'm on the verge of killing you?"

[frankafey]

We have "face", why do you think the US is still in Iraq and why it took us so long to get out of Vietnam.

[jomama]

A disturbing part of this story is the driver. How crazy is this guy?

* Runs a red light in a school crossing

* Verbally abuses the policeman who tries to reign him in

* Shoves the policeman and says he’ll get the policeman fired or demoted

* Continues with abusive, aggressive behavior until the policeman goes over the edge

And we’re driving on the road with folks like that? How much concern would he have for just “civilians” like us?

They rage around in their pickup trucks, flashing their headlights for everyone to get out of the way. Then complain about the price of their so-precious diesel fuel.

Very creepy…But also very dangerous.

Luckily, the highways are the only places in Thailand I come in to close proximity to these guys. And now I try to limit my time on the roads. Gone are the days when I would take a long road trip, just to go out for a drive, for recreation. Sometimes at the Jet gasoline station I would see some of these guys climb out of their gawd-almighty pickup trucks and I would say to myself “no wonder it’s a war zone out there.”

Policeman dealing with this all his career? No real laws to back him up -- influence and connections override the law. No wonder he snapped. Some Thai folks I know commented to the effect he should be given a medal. If they’re going to shoot drug dealers, why not these totally reckless, dangerous drivers? They probably kill more people than drug dealers do.

I too have sympathy for the policeman.

[Bilko]

I think the reason Thais are so polite (superficially) is that 'face' is a really important thing and confrontations rapidly escalate to the point of death.

Quite different from the West, and something that every farang who lives here should understand, even though farangs have no 'face' so are often cut a lot of slack.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, farangs are cut a lot of slack.

[Bilko]

Some Thai folks I know commented to the effect he should be given a medal. If they’re going to shoot drug dealers, why not these totally reckless, dangerous drivers?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Somehow, I doubt that Thai people are suggesting that he be given a medal for Killing a motorist and 2 passengers.

I think you are just expressing your own views on drivers.

By the way, you seem to have something against Pick up trucks, why ?

[BlackJack]

anyone who has seen the film FALLING DOWN will understand exactly how this could happen

many times in my mind i have hit out at these mindless idiots behind the wheel or in charge of a motor cycle -

Imaging me as a pedestrian msny times, being abused by a motor cycle taxi driver for walking on the footpath - my legal and safe right, then being beeped to get out of the way because he has a fare - there is no one to police these idiots - there is no logic to argue with - they are the cowboys of the road and stuff anyone that gets in their mind set

this cop had handled 1000's of incidents and i bet he had thought about this 100's of times -

then as has happened he gets pushed over the edge by excuse laden thais with some piss pot excuse that they were late for market - well now their late alright

there is always some excuse. no logic to deal with and so the cop made a statement

As harsh as it was - there are now hundreds of people who were watching that told hundreds of others about the incident

this exponential lesson will maybe make some thais think about what they are doing and the consequences

and then again TIT

[thaibebop]

<snip> There is no excuse whatsoever for a policeman to shoot unarmed people who weren't physically threatening him.

Especially because he 'lost face'.   Time to ###### grow up!

And for those apologists, (again with the apologists ), we know that isolated cases can happen in the west. There's still no comparison between there (the West) and here. It's a hollow 'argument'; it's just really...grasping. 

IA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think your a little out of line here. Most of us are just trying to understand why the parties involed did what they did. It's not fair to either party to just stamp 'em and move on. What the cop did was wrong, yes, but why did he do it? Walk in his shoes and the shoes of the motorists shot. You might find you feel for them both as well as be able to condemn them both. It's at that point to one would be fully able to judge.

WISteve is correct Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

If I wanted to kill someone I can think of more ways to get done than firearm.

Edited June 30, 2005 by george

[fanciman]

I think that what really triggered the policeman's response was the threat to have him transferred. The police officer had no way of knowing whether this threat would be followed through but in trying to understand the events I would say that this threat may well have been perceived as a direct attack on the police officer and his family.

Tragic consequences aside, people that hear of these events are likely to be more restrained in similar situations in the future. One must be very careful to recognize when the red mist has come over ones eyes.

[jomama]

In the States the policeman could have radioed for backup (from an good police car, not a motorcycle that he had to pay for himself). They would have cuffed these guys and taken them off to jail. The truck would have been towed and impounded.

This poor Thai policeman didn’t have any of that support.

[Chiuey]

We have "face", why do you think the US is still in Iraq and why it took us so long to get out of Vietnam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dude that aint face, that's idiots in the white house.

I'm actually for the war in iraq, but I think it should have happened back when daddy bush was in office.

The matter of face is not a cultural thing, it just more emphasized on, on all levels of society in asia. Everyone has pride and "face" to a certain degree, and I persoanlly think that having common decency and respect for you fellow man is simply just a good practise to have in our daily lives.

[micman]

Some Thai folks I know commented to the effect he should be given a medal. If they’re going to shoot drug dealers, why not these totally reckless, dangerous drivers?

There would be an aful lot of dead drivers considering the large percentage of the population that drives dangerously in Thailand.