Australian Tourist Visa

[carpy]

My friend who wanted to visit us in Australia had her tourist visa knocked back and was lodged Friday and returned refused on Monday.She is 48 years old has her own buisness and also a second job.has over 300,000 baht in the bank with a bank garentee of over 30,000 baht per month coming in from her buisness.Had an invitation letter from my wife and I ,Has been to NZ before and complied with her visa.How can they knock this back.And approve this friend 30 year old girl has 100,000 one off lump sum deposited in her bank, owns a small internet cafe in Pattaya (BS) no letter of support from us.Get approved and arrive at our house with no money asking for help.I just dont understand the logic.CAN ANYONE PLEASE EXPLAIN.

[aussiedoug]

It's got me stuffed as well, had an aquaintance a woman aged about 37, paying off her flat through GHB, 15 years in the one job at the same company as Human Resources manager with 1500 employees, all the letters from employer about leave etc, and knocked back twice. I am beginning to think this outsourcing operation the embassy now uses is up for a simple bribe, but this woamn would not offer it even it was hinted at.

[Will27]

My friend who wanted to visit us in Australia had her tourist visa knocked back and was lodged Friday and returned refused on Monday.She is 48 years old has her own buisness and also a second job.has over 300,000 baht in the bank with a bank garentee of over 30,000 baht per month coming in from her buisness.Had an invitation letter from my wife and I ,Has been to NZ before and complied with her visa.How can they knock this back.And approve this friend 30 year old girl has 100,000 one off lump sum deposited in her bank, owns a small internet cafe in Pattaya (BS) no letter of support from us.Get approved and arrive at our house with no money asking for help.I just dont understand the logic.CAN ANYONE PLEASE EXPLAIN.

"quote"

To answer your first question.......there is no logic.

What you have to understand, is that sometimes

someone makes a bad decision. It's a simple as that.

Give us some more information. What were the grounds for

refusal? What is her business? What was she doing in NZ,

how long did she stay for? How do you know she complied with

her conditions? How long did she want to stay in Oz? Have

you invited friends before?

If you think it's a bad decision, apply again. There's no point

comparing one case versus another as they're all different

and probably assessed by a different case officer.

Regards

Will

[gburns57au]

Without knowing the reason for the refusal we could only speculate the whys.

[carpy]

Ok this is the reason given by the decision maker : Accepts that she is employed but with a low level of income.And may not return to Thailand when her visa expires.She had leave from her employer for 3 weeks.She was coming for 2 weeks.She did work for me when we had a resturant in Thailand 5 years ago.And she went to NZ before on holiday 5 years ago for 3 weeks.but that visa is not in her current passport,but she does have the paper approval of that visa which she did not put in with her application.She is going to apply again maybe a with a few more documents.But still can't understand the logic between the 2.

[bridge]

It's got me stuffed as well, had an aquaintance a woman aged about 37, paying off her flat through GHB, 15 years in the one job at the same company as Human Resources manager with 1500 employees, all the letters from employer about leave etc, and knocked back twice. I am beginning to think this outsourcing operation the embassy now uses is up for a simple bribe, but this woamn would not offer it even it was hinted at.

VFS don't play any part in the decision making process whatsoever.

Without knowing the reason for the refusal we could only speculate the whys.

Totally agree

Ok this is the reason given by the decision maker : Accepts that she is employed but with a low level of income.And may not return to Thailand when her visa expires.She had leave from her employer for 3 weeks.She was coming for 2 weeks.She did work for me when we had a resturant in Thailand 5 years ago.And she went to NZ before on holiday 5 years ago for 3 weeks.but that visa is not in her current passport,but she does have the paper approval of that visa which she did not put in with her application.She is going to apply again maybe a with a few more documents.But still can't understand the logic between the 2.

Not really an explanation/statement of reasons as to why the visa was refused. Are you able to delete all personal information and post a copy of the refusal letter.

[Blackberry9700]

It's got me stuffed as well, had an aquaintance a woman aged about 37, paying off her flat through GHB, 15 years in the one job at the same company as Human Resources manager with 1500 employees, all the letters from employer about leave etc, and knocked back twice. I am beginning to think this outsourcing operation the embassy now uses is up for a simple bribe, but this woamn would not offer it even it was hinted at.

VFS don't play any part in the decision making process whatsoever.

Without knowing the reason for the refusal we could only speculate the whys.

Totally agree

Ok this is the reason given by the decision maker : Accepts that she is employed but with a low level of income.And may not return to Thailand when her visa expires.She had leave from her employer for 3 weeks.She was coming for 2 weeks.She did work for me when we had a resturant in Thailand 5 years ago.And she went to NZ before on holiday 5 years ago for 3 weeks.but that visa is not in her current passport,but she does have the paper approval of that visa which she did not put in with her application.She is going to apply again maybe a with a few more documents.But still can't understand the logic between the 2.

Not really an explanation/statement of reasons as to why the visa was refused. Are you able to delete all personal information and post a copy of the refusal letter.

Applied for a Business Visa , took the Embassy 2 months to issue me a 1 year business visa.

[electau]

She will have received a letter from DIAC at the Australian Embassy which will give the reasons for the refusal of the 676 visitors visa. It will be in English not Thai.

Have you actually seen this letter and read it? It would appear you have not. You should ask her for the letter and read it yourself. Post the reason(s) for refusal if possible.

　

[ogb]

You wont get any confirmation of this from Australian officials, but the basic starting position for a Thai woman applying for a tourist visa to Australia is to deny it for whatever reasons they can find, such as lack of funds, lack of reasons for the visit, or lack of evidence of same, and a suspicion that they will not leave Australia when the visa term ends.<br><br>They also try to use the application fee as a deterrent, and often make the applicant pay the fee again even though the initial application denial may have been spurious.<br><br>Such is the reputation of Thai women, and the redneck Australian fear of being invaded by illegal immigrants.<br><br><br>

[bridge]

You wont get any confirmation of this from Australian officials, but the basic starting position for a Thai woman applying for a tourist visa to Australia is to deny it for whatever reasons they can find, such as lack of funds, lack of reasons for the visit, or lack of evidence of same, and a suspicion that they will not leave Australia when the visa term ends.<br><br>They also try to use the application fee as a deterrent, and often make the applicant pay the fee again even though the initial application denial may have been spurious.<br><br>Such is the reputation of Thai women, and the redneck Australian fear of being invaded by illegal immigrants.<br><br><br>

Hi Ogb

DIAC are required to give the visa applicant a statement as to the reasons for a visa refusal. Many visa subclasses are in fact also reviewable by the Migration Review Tribunal (MRT). A little bit different to how thing operate when people try to get visas to Thailand and the rules from one Consulate vary significantly from another, arbitrary decision making is certainly common place.

Of those visa applications that fail, many simply fail because the applicant has failed to address the criteria for the successful grant of a visa of which the subclass they are applying for. Lack of supporting documentation is also another common mistake.

Finally, your categorization of the "reputation of Thai women", and the "Redneck Australian fear of being invaded by illegal immigrants", is just ill informed dribble - sorry.

Regards

Bridge

[ralph02]

<br>You wont get any confirmation of this from Australian officials, but the basic starting position for a Thai woman applying for a tourist visa to Australia is to deny it for whatever reasons they can find, such as lack of funds, lack of reasons for the visit, or lack of evidence of same, and a suspicion that they will not leave Australia when the visa term ends.<br><br>They also try to use the application fee as a deterrent, and often make the applicant pay the fee again even though the initial application denial may have been spurious.<br><br>Such is the reputation of Thai women, and the redneck Australian fear of being invaded by illegal immigrants.<br><br><br><br>

<br><br><br>I think you will find that because of Australia being in  the unique situation of being regarded as a paradise widely regarded as very desirable destination for asylum seekers, over stayers and every one else who wants to leave there own country our Immigration are very selective.  <br><br>We do not want to be in the same situation as England and other counties were they now find them selves invaded by  illegals and rampant  immigration which has changed the fabric of society and over whelmed the social security system.<br><br>This girl may well be genuine but many are not hence Australia's hard core approach to Immigration. One will find that this girl  presented a risk in some form or another and I imagine she would be presented with a reason of her refusal into Australia. <br><br>Some people may call our  Immigration officials rednecks but these are the ones that want to come here and cant hence there ranting about our system.<br><br>99.9 % of Australian fully support our rigid system which is designed to protect our people and country.  We see the mistakes of other countries regards there immigration policies and have no desire to go there.<br><br> <br><br><br>

[bridge]

Ironically most Australian visa overstayers are English lads. Ironic because Brits are eligible for an ETA visa and don't have to jump through hoops to get one.

Interesting story from the Sydney Morning Herald last October:

Most visa overstayers are English lads

Bridge

[laocowboy2]

My situation is not exactly similar but my experience may help. I wanted to go to Ox on holiday last year with my Thai partner. She too was refused initially. I however perservered and managed to make contact with someone at the Australian Embassy and explained position. After much provision of corroborating data as to financial position, ownership of house and car in BKK and land in NE and length of our relationship (over 15 years), we were successful in making a fresh application (which did not go via VFS) and weny to Sydney last September.

VFS as a company is efficient (they handle the visas for India for example) but they operate strictly to whatever template is provided by the country concerned. They have no discretion. In the case of Australia I would guess that there is a pretty strict check list and one X and the answer is no. As you are in Australia yourself, you might want to try from that end by contacting whatever authority it is that handles such matters.

Not much of a consolation but it is ironic to see the authorities on one hand spending oodles of your tax dollars on "Visit Australia" campaigns while the men at the ministry try their hardest to prevent anyone coming! They should re-run that "Where the bloddy hel_l are you?" ad campaign but then add at the end a series of people saying "Still bloody waiting for a visa!".

[ogb]

Hi Bridge,

That's your story, and you can stick to it - like I said, you wont be getting any confirmation from Australian officials:D

Check the major Australian newspapers for statements by Australian politicians and read the comments sections if you would like to see evidence of Australian redneck attitudes.

Are you really/seriously disputing that (unfortunately) Thai women travellers are subject to stricter evaluation procedures than those from many other countries?

Regards,

OGB

PS I agree Laocowby2 about perseverence - call them out on the bullshit, and take the matter higher if necessary.

[7by7]

VFS as a company is efficient (they handle the visas for India for example) but they operate strictly to whatever template is provided by the country concerned. They have no discretion. In the case of Australia I would guess that there is a pretty strict check list and one X and the answer is no.

VFS also handle visa applications for the UK in, among other places, Thailand. However, for the UK they merely collect the application, biometrics and fee before forwarding everything to the British embassy where the decision on the application is made by British Entry Clearance Officers employed by the British government.

Are you saying that for Australia the decision on whether to issue the visa or not is made by local VFS staff? Seems very odd if that is so!

OGB, Bridge is a qualified and registered Australian visa adviser. With respect, he doubtless has more experience of dealing with Australian visa applications of all types than yourself.

[laocowboy2]

VFS as a company is efficient (they handle the visas for India for example) but they operate strictly to whatever template is provided by the country concerned. They have no discretion. In the case of Australia I would guess that there is a pretty strict check list and one X and the answer is no.

VFS also handle visa applications for the UK in, among other places, Thailand. However, for the UK they merely collect the application, biometrics and fee before forwarding everything to the British embassy where the decision on the application is made by British Entry Clearance Officers employed by the British government.

Are you saying that for Australia the decision on whether to issue the visa or not is made by local VFS staff? Seems very odd if that is so!

OGB, Bridge is a qualified and registered Australian visa adviser. With respect, he doubtless has more experience of dealing with Australian visa applications of all types than yourself.

Cannot know for sure but I would expect that what is sent on by VFS would be all the applications divided into sets by application type - each of which would in turn be split into complying with template and not complying. In theory a visa officer (if like UK embassy would all be local Thai hires) would then vet each but in practice I would imagine that the real checks are on those in the "complying" pile - I cannot imagine that anyone at an embassy will look too hard for a reason to say "yes" for a non-complying application. In my case the key was getting the file to an Australian.

[bridge]

Hi Bridge,

That's your story, and you can stick to it - like I said, you wont be getting any confirmation from Australian officials:D

Check the major Australian newspapers for statements by Australian politicians and read the comments sections if you would like to see evidence of Australian redneck attitudes.

Are you really/seriously disputing that (unfortunately) Thai women travellers are subject to stricter evaluation procedures than those from many other countries?

Regards,

OGB

PS I agree Laocowby2 about perseverence - call them out on the bullshit, and take the matter higher if necessary.

Hi OGB

If a visa application is refused then the applicant must be given written notification of the refusal. Section 66 of the Migration Act requires that the notification must state which criteria were not met and/or any provisions of the Migration Act or Migration Regulations that prevented the grant of the visa.

In December, 2007 the Australian Commonwealth Ombudsman released an investigation report:

Notifications of Decisions and Review Rights for Unsuccessful Visa Applicants

This report what somewhat critical of DIAC. If you or anyone else has had a visa refused and have not received a notice of refusal, then I would firstly ask the case officer for a written notice of the reasons as to the refusal. If all else fails, then a complaint to the Commonwealth Ombudsman may be in order.

Regards

Bridge

[ogb]

Thanks for the link, Bridge.

Did you ever watch a TV show called: 'Yes, Minister' ? (or 'The Hollowmen' for an Australian setting)

It had some good examples of how things can work in practice, and how the implementation of a stated policy or law can be manipulated, according to an 'unstated' agenda.

In the specific example of applications for visas, the assessing staff in practice have a great deal of leeway and they can choose to be pedantic, or not.

(in the case of applications by Thai women, it is my belief that they choose to be pedantic, and hence it acts as a deterrent)

I personally have always had satisfactory outcomes when dealing with Australian immigration officials (and other such bureaucrats), but then again, I'm a prickly pear type, and like a dog who won't let go, so they soon tire of trying to fob me off, and give in for the sake of an easy life

I do however know of Thai women who would easily qualify for a visa, but wont submit themselves to the possible humiliation

(reputation of some has tarred the many)

Edited July 12, 2010 by ogb

[bridge]

Thanks for the link, Bridge.

Did you ever watch a TV show called: 'Yes, Minister' ?

It had some good examples of how things can work in practice, and how the implementation of a stated policy or law can be manipulated, according to an 'unstated' agenda.

In the specific example of applications for visas, the assessing staff in practice have a great deal of leeway and they can choose to be pedantic, or not.

(in the case of applications by Thai women, it is my belief that they choose to be pedantic, and hence it acts as a deterrent)

I personally have always had satisfactory outcomes when dealing with Australian immigration officials (and other such bureaucrats), but then again, I'm a prickly pear type, and like a dog who won't let go, so they soon tire of trying to fob me off, and give in for the sake of an easy life

I do however know of Thai women who would easily qualify for a visa, but wont submit themselves to the possible humiliation

(reputation of some has tarred the many)

I hear what you are saying, and I do agree with some of your sentiments. With regards to Thai women who will not submit applications due to possible humiliation/reputation, it reminds me of an applicant who was granted a tourist visa, but was too scared to attend the security office at the Australian Embassy to collect her passport because she thought it would be knocked back - even though it was already granted.

From my experience, of the applications that fail, it is because the applicant simply failed to address all of the primary criteria necessary for the grant of a particular visa subclass. At the end of the day, a well prepared application that addresses ALL of the criteria with the submission of supporting documentation will be successful.

Anyone interested. for a 676 tourist visa, look at Cl.676 of Schedule 2 of the Migration Regulations 1994.

Regards

Bridge

[ogb]

At the end of the day, a well prepared application that addresses ALL of the criteria with the submission of supporting documentation will be successful.

Agree, it's very important to cross all those 't's and dot all those 'i's

Thank's for your explanations & advice.

[rick75]

My experience was very positive, I am sure many board members are in the same boat. If people take the time to read through the posts on here and see what documents etc are required I am sure they will get a visa fairly easily if they are genuine.Visitor visa's from my experience came very easily maybe we were lucky, partner visa now that was a different story, but still just a process that you have to go through.I think sometimes immigration try to save people from themselves, people who should know better, but after a two week holiday romance are thinking with the wrong head.Anyways thats my take

[7by7]

In theory a visa officer (if like UK embassy would all be local Thai hires) would then vet each but in practice I would imagine that the real checks are on those in the "complying" pile - I cannot imagine that anyone at an embassy will look too hard for a reason to say "yes" for a non-complying application. In my case the key was getting the file to an Australian.

An interesting theory, but the part I have highlighted is totally incorrect.

The visa section at the UK embassy does employ local staff; but only as clerical staff and interpreters.

All the decisions on applications are made by British staff who are direct employees of the British government and recruited in the UK; they are career civil servants. I imagine that for Australia it is the same (except for them being Australian, of course!).

[bridge]

My experience was very positive, I am sure many board members are in the same boat. If people take the time to read through the posts on here and see what documents etc are required I am sure they will get a visa fairly easily if they are genuine.Visitor visa's from my experience came very easily maybe we were lucky, partner visa now that was a different story, but still just a process that you have to go through.I think sometimes immigration try to save people from themselves, people who should know better, but after a two week holiday romance are thinking with the wrong head.Anyways thats my take

Rick, well said. Couldn't agree more with you. Many people think it is just a matter of submitting the 48r and that's it - wrong.

Not doubt some people feel (and reasonably so at times) that they have to jump through hoops to get an Oz visa for their girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse, whether it be a visitor visa, partner visa etc. However simple adherence to the Migration Acts/Regulations is all that is required. Despite previous post, DIAC delegates must follow the Migration Act/Regulations, and most visa refusals are reviewable.

If anyone has any questions I am more than happy to answer them, but please don't PM me, as i would like others who may have similar questions/concerns to benefit from the posts.

Regards

Bridge

[Robby nz]

OK Bridge hear we go:

I am from NZ and have a Thai GF, we visited NZ last year for 3 months for which she got a double entry toutist visa.

We plan another trip to NZ this Xmas for a couple of months on the second entry of her visa and as I have some friends in OZ one of whome has just been diagnised with cancer I am thinking of visiting them for a week or two on the way back to TL, she would obviously need an OZ visa for this.

I have no idea what is required for said OZ visa but if it is anything like the NZ one which needed a stack of paper an inch thick and took 3 months to be approved it may not be worth the hassle.

Apreciate any input.

PS she has also been to India and Singapore on her current passport.

[theoldgit]

The visa section at the UK embassy does employ local staff; but only as clerical staff and interpreters.

All the decisions on applications are made by British staff who are direct employees of the British government and recruited in the UK; they are career civil servants. I imagine that for Australia it is the same (except for them being Australian, of course!).

Actually they are not all career Civil Servants as they do employ locally employed staff as ECO's, they recruited a number last year and they are about to recruit more, they don't even need to be British.

That said the criteria was that applicants should have worked in a visa issuing environment and were able to obtain UK security clearance, which rather narrows the field.

Also noticed a set of ads in the Bangkok Post recently for staff to work as Locally Delegated Officers in the visa section of the Australian Embassy, whilst these ads did not say that potential applicants did not say that they needed to have worked in a visa issuing environment it did say they needed to be able to obtain Australian Security Clearance, as I recall it did say what nationalities would likely to be able to do so.

Entry Clearance Officers and Locally Delegated Officers don't need to be career civil servants or even nationals of the country concerned, but they do need to prove that they can apply immigration law fairly and consistently to all applications and be able to obtain security clearance.

[bridge]

OK Bridge hear we go:

I am from NZ and have a Thai GF, we visited NZ last year for 3 months for which she got a double entry toutist visa.

We plan another trip to NZ this Xmas for a couple of months on the second entry of her visa and as I have some friends in OZ one of whome has just been diagnised with cancer I am thinking of visiting them for a week or two on the way back to TL, she would obviously need an OZ visa for this.

I have no idea what is required for said OZ visa but if it is anything like the NZ one which needed a stack of paper an inch thick and took 3 months to be approved it may not be worth the hassle.

Apreciate any input.

PS she has also been to India and Singapore on her current passport.

Robby nz

Your GF will need to apply for a subclass 676 tourist visa. The application form (48r) can be downloaded from the DIAC website. The application form is also available in Thai (48rtha), but must be completed in English. The current visa application charge is THB3300. Applications can be sent directly to Australian Embassy, Bangkok, or lodged in person at VFS. If lodged at VFS a THB535 service fee is charged. Passport and a recent passport photo must be submitted with the visa application. Processing time is usually 3 to 5 business days, but can take longer during peak periods of if more information is needed from the applicant

Her application must clearly demonstrate that she is intending to visit Australia a genuine visitor only, and that she had adequate funds or access to adequate funds for the purpose and duration of her stay in Australia. A genuine visitor is someone who will not work whilst in Australia, and will depart Australia prior to their visa expiring.

There are many factors that are taken into account in determining whether an applicant has a genuine intention, such as ongoing employment in their home country, strong family ties in their home country for example. The list is not exhaustive. Ultimately it is the objective circumstances of the applicant and not their subjective intention.

You might want to include a letter with your GF's application that you will be providing her financial support (if you are that is), and that she has previously been granted a NZ visa and complied with the conditions of that visa. State the reasons for the visit to Oz as well.

Does she have any network of family of friends in Australia? If not, mention that too, as it may also demonstrate that there would be no incentive for her to overstay.

Well that's a start for you - good luck

Bridge

[7by7]

The visa section at the UK embassy does employ local staff; but only as clerical staff and interpreters.

All the decisions on applications are made by British staff who are direct employees of the British government and recruited in the UK; they are career civil servants. I imagine that for Australia it is the same (except for them being Australian, of course!).

Actually they are not all career Civil Servants as they do employ locally employed staff as ECO's, they recruited a number last year and they are about to recruit more, they don't even need to be British.

That said the criteria was that applicants should have worked in a visa issuing environment and were able to obtain UK security clearance, which rather narrows the field.

Thanks for that, OG; do you know when it changed? (Not that it matters really.)

Though, as you say, with respect to the Thai people, the likelihood of many meeting the criteria must be very slim.

Local or not, I'm sure in both the British and Australian embassies the staff are as professional as possible; but being human do make mistakes at times.

[theoldgit]

Thanks for that, OG; do you know when it changed? (Not that it matters really.)

Not sure when it changed but it was certainly in place for last years campaign.

I think cost certainly came into the equation, an experienced Immigration Officer would be selected to work as an ECO and would receive a number of allowances, including shift disturbance premium payments and overseas allowances etc. I think an experienced IO earns in the region of £27,000, though it's probably a lot more with all the extras. So you might say an IO could cost in the region of 175,000 Baht per month, and that's only an educated guess, don't forget you have to add on all the on costs. I only glanced at the advert, but as I recall they were offering in the region of 50/60,000 Baht per month, so that is a substantial saving in cost, very important in these austere times - though you might ask why the application fees are so high.

It's not unusual for retired IO's to be locally employed as ECO's, there are a number in Thailand, including some active forum members, to supplement their pensions. IO's used to be able to register their interest to be employed as casual ECO's, though I'm not sure if that's still the case.

[7by7]

you might ask why the application fees are so high.

Oh, I do, I do!

Shall we give the Aussies their topic back now?

[theoldgit]

Shall we give the Aussies their topic back now?