Refused Family Visa

[chadstar]

my sister in law as just been refused a family visa to the UK the reason was for fraudulent document summited ,witch was actually a letter from her employer and was written by the sister in law then signed by her boss as her job is admin and was told to write the letter for her boss.the embassy investigated and asked for the letter to be resigned witch it was then they asked for a new letter , again sister in law had to write the letter for her boss , this where it goes wrong her boss isn't in the office so she gets big boss to sign it who is the company owner and the husband of her boss.

so the refusal letter basically as tarred the sitter in law as a fraud-est but it was all a big mistake by her boss/company

do you think any could be done to get this refusal turned round ?

is it worth going to appeal?

should she just reapply and try get the letter correct this time or will she be black listed from the UK ?

PS wife not a happy bunny right now so please ant help wold be grateful

chadstar

[the scouser]

Have a look at the refusal notice that your sister-in-law will have been given. If the accusation is that she submitted false documentation, she will have probably been refused by reference to para 320(7A) of the Rules, in which case there is no point in re-applying as any subsequent application will automatically be refused for a period of 10 years by reference to para 320(7B).

Should this be the case, your sister-in-law's only option is to appeal, and hope to convince the immigration judge of both her genuine intentions and that no deception was employed.

Scouse.

[liveinlos]

Have both bosses certify a letter as to what happened and testify to the fact it was no fraudulent

[chadstar]

Have a look at the refusal notice that your sister-in-law will have been given. If the accusation is that she submitted false documentation, she will have probably been refused by reference to para 320(7A) of the Rules, in which case there is no point in re-applying as any subsequent application will automatically be refused for a period of 10 years by reference to para 320(7B).

Should this be the case, your sister-in-law's only option is to appeal, and hope to convince the immigration judge of both her genuine intentions and that no deception was employed.

Scouse.

cheers for the advice i have already started filling out the appeal as i can do it from here , i will get the sister in law to get her boss to do a new letter and try explain about what went wrong then get it translated to english and stamped , but im worried my grammer not good and they may just laugh at how i try to explain whats gone on.

[chadstar]

Have a look at the refusal notice that your sister-in-law will have been given. If the accusation is that she submitted false documentation, she will have probably been refused by reference to para 320(7A) of the Rules, in which case there is no point in re-applying as any subsequent application will automatically be refused for a period of 10 years by reference to para 320(7B).

Should this be the case, your sister-in-law's only option is to appeal, and hope to convince the immigration judge of both her genuine intentions and that no deception was employed.

Scouse.

yes the refusal was on section320(7a)

[wandrinstar]

Have a look at the refusal notice that your sister-in-law will have been given. If the accusation is that she submitted false documentation, she will have probably been refused by reference to para 320(7A) of the Rules, in which case there is no point in re-applying as any subsequent application will automatically be refused for a period of 10 years by reference to para 320(7B).

Should this be the case, your sister-in-law's only option is to appeal, and hope to convince the immigration judge of both her genuine intentions and that no deception was employed.

Scouse.

To many Family ,Friends, Relations etc, no wonder its thrown out.Id forget it,genuine or not, they know every trick going.Its a marked request now.

[stament]

To many Family ,Friends, Relations etc, no wonder its thrown out.Id forget it,genuine or not, they know every trick going.Its a marked request now.

Can you explain what you mean?

[chadstar]

Have a look at the refusal notice that your sister-in-law will have been given. If the accusation is that she submitted false documentation, she will have probably been refused by reference to para 320(7A) of the Rules, in which case there is no point in re-applying as any subsequent application will automatically be refused for a period of 10 years by reference to para 320(7B).

Should this be the case, your sister-in-law's only option is to appeal, and hope to convince the immigration judge of both her genuine intentions and that no deception was employed.

Scouse.

yes the refusal was on section320(7a)

as i have never had to appeal before for a visa could anyone tell me what kind of evidence could be sumited to help this case .

i feel so upset that it was my idea to invite the sister in law to the uk for a holiday and now she wont be able travel anywhere in the next 10 YEARS

any help and advice would help

thanks

[imaneggspurt]

Have a look at the refusal notice that your sister-in-law will have been given. If the accusation is that she submitted false documentation, she will have probably been refused by reference to para 320(7A) of the Rules, in which case there is no point in re-applying as any subsequent application will automatically be refused for a period of 10 years by reference to para 320(7B).

Should this be the case, your sister-in-law's only option is to appeal, and hope to convince the immigration judge of both her genuine intentions and that no deception was employed.

Scouse.

yes the refusal was on section320(7a)

as i have never had to appeal before for a visa could anyone tell me what kind of evidence could be sumited to help this case .

i feel so upset that it was my idea to invite the sister in law to the uk for a holiday and now she wont be able travel anywhere in the next 10 YEARS

any help and advice would help

thanks

Get Scouser to help you ,it sounds like you need it

[7by7]

as i have never had to appeal before for a visa could anyone tell me what kind of evidence could be sumited to help this case

Without knowing exactly what the refusal notice says (minus any names and other identifying details) it is impossible to say with any certainty.

However, from what you have said it appears that for some reason the ECO believed the letters your sister-in-law provided from her boss were forgeries. So she needs to provide evidence that they were not.

now she wont be able travel anywhere in the next 10 YEARS

Not quite. Being refused a UK visa under Para 320(7A) does not mean she will now be refused a visa or entry to every other country. It is up to the country concerned.

If she does appeal and the refusal is overturned, then obviously so will any potential ban.

Remember that she must submit the appeal within 28 days of the date of the refusal.

[theoldgit]

now she wont be able travel anywhere in the next 10 YEARS

Not quite. Being refused a UK visa under Para 320(7A) does not mean she will now be refused a visa or entry to every other country. It is up to the country concerned.

Yes, if your Sister in Law can prove the letter was not fraudulently obtained then she should appeal. She needs to provide compelling evidence as you did say that the ECO investigated the validity of the letter, that may only have been a phone call but they wouldn't have done that unless there was something that aroused their suspicion.

7by7 is correct in saying that the ban only affects the UK, though she will have to declare it should wish to apply for a visa in most, if not all, other countries.

Whatever she decides to do, good luck.

[Thongkorn]

Have both bosses certify a letter as to what happened and testify to the fact it was no fraudulent

Yes just write it out and get him to sign it?????

[chadstar]

that was the problem to start with sister in law wrote the letter out and got boss to sign but missed off the date and spelled the bosses name wrong

Edited July 10, 2010 by 7by7
Unnecessary nested quotes removed

[chadstar]

NOTICE OF IMMIGRATION DECISION

ln compliance with the lmmigration (Notices) Regulations 2003 made under section 105 of the

Nationality, lmmigration and Asylum Act2002

REFUSAL OF ENTRY CLEARANCE

Post reference: BANGKOK \ xxxxx

TO: xxxxxxx xxxxxx CATEGORY: FAMILY VISITOR

Date of Birth; xx xx xxxx

Nationality: THAILAND

Your Application

You have applied for an entry clearance to visit your sister in the United Kingdom for 6 months. I

have considered your application under Paragraph 41 of the United Kingdom lmmigration Rules.

You can read these Rules at:

www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uldpolicvandlaMimmigrationlaMimmiqrationrules/

I have also considered your application under section 320 (7A) of the lmmigration Rules where

false representations have been made or false documents have been submitted (whether or not

material to the application, and whether or not to the applicant's knowledge), or materialfacts

have not been disclosed, in relation to the application.

Any documents you have supplied in support of your application have been considered and

recorded. lt has not been necessary to interview you in order to reach a decision on your

application.

The Decision

.

You have stated an intention to visit your sister, who is married to a British national, for a

period of six months, the longest duration permitted for a visitor to the UK. I am satisfied that

your sister is legally resident there.

o

ln support of your application, you have provided an undated letter, written in English,

purporting to be from Mrs xxxxxx xxxxxx, the Managing Director of xxxxxx xxxx xxxxx Co Ltd which confirms that you are an admin office-based worker and that you

have been granted a leave of absence for six months. However, our investigations have

revealed that the letter from Mrs xxxxxx was falsified. She did not write or sign the letter

and she has confirmed that her name'xxxxxx" is misspelt: it should read "xxxxxxx". Mrs

xxxxxx has further confirmed that she does not write in English, only in Thai. Therefore,

given this information, I am satisfied that you have knowingly provided a false employment

letter.

.

I therefore refuse your application under paragraph 320(7A) of HC395 as quoted in the

relevant immigration rules section of this notice above.

o

Submission of false documents undermines your credibility to the extent that I am not satisfied

that you are being truthful about the purpose and duration of your proposed visit to the UK. I

am therefore not satisfied that you are genuinely seeking entry to the UK as a visitor for less

than 6 months who intends to leave the UK at the end of the period of the visit. (Para 41(i) &

(i i)).

o

You should note that because this application for entry clearance has been refused under

paragraph 320 (7a) of the lmmigration Rules, any future applications mav also be refused

under paragraph 320 (7b) of the lmmigration Rules (subject to the requirements set out in

paragraph 320 (7c)).

.

.

A refusal under paragraph 320 (7b) of the lmmigration Rules attracts an automatic refusal

period of up to 10 years. The period starts from the date of the previous event in which the

deception or submission of falsified documents or information was employed.

I have therefore refused your application because I am not satisfied, on the balance of

probabilities, that you meet all of the requirements of the above paragraph(s) of the lmmigration

Rules.

Your right of appeal

You are entitled to appeal against this decision under section 82(1) of the Nationality, lmmigration

and Asylum Act 2002. lf you wish to appeal you should complete Appeal Form IAFT-2, a copy of

which will be given to you with this notice. A guidance leaflet is also enclosed which explains what

to do.

lf you decide to appeal against the refusal of this application, the decision will be reviewed with

your grounds of appeal and any supporting documents. You are strongly advised to submit all

relevant documents with your notice of appeal, as it may be possible to resolve the points at issue

without an appeal hearing.

You must lodge your appeal at the First-tier Tribunal (lmmigration and Asylum Chamber). You can

do this by:

o Fax to: +44(0)1509221699; or . Post to: First-tier Tribunal (lmmigration and Asylum Chamber), PO Box 7866, Loughborough,

LEl1 2XZ, United Kingdom; or

.

Returning your appeal papers to the Vlsa Secfion, British Embassy, 14 Wireless Road,

Eangkok 14fi0 .

The completed appeal form must arrive no later than 28 davs after the date you received this

notice, and you must make sure that it is signed and dated.

Entry Clearance Officer: xx

Date of refusal: xxxxxxx

Date sent to applicant:

How sent: via VAC

lf notice personally handed to you by an Entry Clearance Officer, please sign below:

Applicant's signature:

Date

Edited July 10, 2010 by 7by7
Unnecessary nested quotes removed

[stament]

I have to agree with them on the evidence you submitted. They've obviously checked up and found out that the name was spelt incorrectly. That alone would lead someone to believe it's false if someone doesn't know how to spell their own name!!

Secondly the boss gave evidence saying she couldn't write in English. Doesn't look good does it even though it's a mistake. I'm guessing it's a learning experience. In hindsight perhaps your sister in law should have got her boss to write the letter in thai and then got it translated.

Hindsight that wonderful thing, but as ever not helpful. I guess if you want to appeal you should get both bosses to write their version of events and sign in thai and then get translated into English and hope the ECO see's it as a genuine mistake.

Whether they will or not is anyone's guess. Scouse or someone on here with experience might know..........

GOOD LUCK. I think you, or your sister in law for that matter will be needing it!

Edited July 10, 2010 by 7by7
Unnecessary nested quotes removed.

[7by7]

They obviously contacted your sister-in-law's boss for confirmation that she was indeed being given 6 months leave of absence. That the boss said she couldn't write in English and denied signing any letter obviously leads to the inevitable conclusion that even if she did sign the letter she had no real idea what was in it!

The only advice that I can offer is in her appeal your sister-in-law explains why the letter was written by her and not her boss, why it was in English when her boss cannot read English and why when asked by the ECO her boss denied signing any such letter. She should include a letter from her boss (in Thai!) confirming all of this

I'd also include a certified English translation of that letter which will be needed if the refusal is not overturned in post but goes to the FTTIAC.

Unless her boss lied to the ECO when contacted; in which case your sister-in-law is going to have to find some way of proving this.

[wandrinstar]

I have to agree with them on the evidence you submitted. They've obviously checked up and found out that the name was spelt incorrectly. That alone would lead someone to believe it's false if someone doesn't know how to spell their own name!!

Secondly the boss gave evidence saying she couldn't write in English. Doesn't look good does it even though it's a mistake. I'm guessing it's a learning experience. In hindsight perhaps your sister in law should have got her boss to write the letter in thai and then got it translated.

Hindsight that wonderful thing, but as ever not helpful. I guess if you want to appeal you should get both bosses to write their version of events and sign in thai and then get translated into English and hope the ECO see's it as a genuine mistake.

Whether they will or not is anyone's guess. Scouse or someone on here with experience might know..........

GOOD LUCK. I think you, or your sister in law for that matter will be needing it!

Six months leave seems fishy to me, a rare Boss indeed.Surely a simple My Sisters Husband will Cover me for a Six month Holiday with them would suffice.

[seaneee]

I have to agree with them on the evidence you submitted. They've obviously checked up and found out that the name was spelt incorrectly. That alone would lead someone to believe it's false if someone doesn't know how to spell their own name!!

Secondly the boss gave evidence saying she couldn't write in English. Doesn't look good does it even though it's a mistake. I'm guessing it's a learning experience. In hindsight perhaps your sister in law should have got her boss to write the letter in thai and then got it translated.

Hindsight that wonderful thing, but as ever not helpful. I guess if you want to appeal you should get both bosses to write their version of events and sign in thai and then get translated into English and hope the ECO see's it as a genuine mistake.

Whether they will or not is anyone's guess. Scouse or someone on here with experience might know..........

GOOD LUCK. I think you, or your sister in law for that matter will be needing it!

Six months leave seems fishy to me, a rare Boss indeed.Surely a simple My Sisters Husband will Cover me for a Six month Holiday with them would suffice.

The open job would count as a reason to return to Thailand , so thats why it was needed.

[7by7]

Keeping a job open for 6 months, even if unpaid, while the employee visits their sister is highly unusual; in the UK as well as Thailand!

I'm not at all surprised that the ECO wanted to check with the employer.

I still have the sponsor's letter on file from when my wife's sister applied to visit us for 4 months last year. This is what I put regarding her employment

Part 5, employment.

X has no full time employment, but obtains what casual work she is able to, from working in a market to decorating and laying floors in houses and shops

She got the visa, even though she had no 'concrete' reason to return. This is not unusaual when applicant and sponsor have a strong, long term relationship; especialy if family.

[chadstar]

Keeping a job open for 6 months, even if unpaid, while the employee visits their sister is highly unusual; in the UK as well as Thailand!

I'm not at all surprised that the ECO wanted to check with the employer.

I still have the sponsor's letter on file from when my wife's sister applied to visit us for 4 months last year. This is what I put regarding her employment

Part 5, employment.

X has no full time employment, but obtains what casual work she is able to, from working in a market to decorating and laying floors in houses and shops

She got the visa, even though she had no 'concrete' reason to return. This is not unusaual when applicant and sponsor have a strong, long term relationship; especialy if family.

i know of plenty jobs here in uk that allow you to have unpaid leave , my job allows me 12 months if i wished

[theoldgit]

i know of plenty jobs here in uk that allow you to have unpaid leave , my job allows me 12 months if i wished

But still pretty unusual, I imagine that's why the ECO checked.

[chadstar]

im going for the appeal , am i right that this will not cost me? aslong as i put in supporting letters from both bosses ?

[seaneee]

im going for the appeal , am i right that this will not cost me? aslong as i put in supporting letters from both bosses ?

I appealed a declined family visa a few months back. Keep your appeal simple and address all refusal points thoroughly. It might be a good idea to ask an impartial friend if they think all of the points detailed in the refusal have been cleared up.

I personally opted for the appeal to be decided on the papers I submitted although you do have the choice of a representative attending the hearing in UK.

The appeal paperwork suggested that the visa offce in BKK have two months to consider issuing the visa , but if they still feel they made the right decision then it will go to tribunal two months later.

In my case the visa people didnt decide at all within the two months limit and they failed to submit any paperwork to the tribunal as they were directed to.The tribunal wrote to me asking for copies of everything so they could make a judgement which i sent. We were all set for the tribunal and 3 days before the hearing the embassy called my wife to say they would be issuing the visa after all.

I wish you all the best with your appeal but prepare yourself for a 4 month wait at least.

In answer to your question, the appeal is free and you can put whatever additional eveidence you feel necassary.

[chadstar]

im going for the appeal , am i right that this will not cost me? aslong as i put in supporting letters from both bosses ?

I appealed a declined family visa a few months back. Keep your appeal simple and address all refusal points thoroughly. It might be a good idea to ask an impartial friend if they think all of the points detailed in the refusal have been cleared up.

I personally opted for the appeal to be decided on the papers I submitted although you do have the choice of a representative attending the hearing in UK.

The appeal paperwork suggested that the visa offce in BKK have two months to consider issuing the visa , but if they still feel they made the right decision then it will go to tribunal two months later.

In my case the visa people didnt decide at all within the two months limit and they failed to submit any paperwork to the tribunal as they were directed to.The tribunal wrote to me asking for copies of everything so they could make a judgement which i sent. We were all set for the tribunal and 3 days before the hearing the embassy called my wife to say they would be issuing the visa after all.

I wish you all the best with your appeal but prepare yourself for a 4 month wait at least.

In answer to your question, the appeal is free and you can put whatever additional eveidence you feel necassary.

just like to thank you all for your advice , its a stressful time right now and sometime you dont think straight , i will be posting the appeal by the end of the week along with a new letter from the sister in laws company in and translated to english and signed by both her bosses, also my account and a letter from the sister in law explaining that she was only try to do everthing correct.

will keep you all posted

once again thanks

[theoldgit]

just like to thank you all for your advice , its a stressful time right now and sometime you dont think straight , i will be posting the appeal by the end of the week along with a new letter from the sister in laws company in and translated to english and signed by both her bosses, also my account and a letter from the sister in law explaining that she was only try to do everthing correct.

Good luck with the appeal, I suspect that it will go all the way, though I hope I'm wrong.

I think that your sister in law will need to convince the adjudicator, whether it be the ECM or the tribunal that the bosses were confused by the call from the ECO or one of their locally employed Thai speaking staff.

[seaneee]

im going for the appeal , am i right that this will not cost me? aslong as i put in supporting letters from both bosses ?

I appealed a declined family visa a few months back. Keep your appeal simple and address all refusal points thoroughly. It might be a good idea to ask an impartial friend if they think all of the points detailed in the refusal have been cleared up.

I personally opted for the appeal to be decided on the papers I submitted although you do have the choice of a representative attending the hearing in UK.

The appeal paperwork suggested that the visa offce in BKK have two months to consider issuing the visa , but if they still feel they made the right decision then it will go to tribunal two months later.

In my case the visa people didnt decide at all within the two months limit and they failed to submit any paperwork to the tribunal as they were directed to.The tribunal wrote to me asking for copies of everything so they could make a judgement which i sent. We were all set for the tribunal and 3 days before the hearing the embassy called my wife to say they would be issuing the visa after all.

I wish you all the best with your appeal but prepare yourself for a 4 month wait at least.

In answer to your question, the appeal is free and you can put whatever additional eveidence you feel necassary.

just like to thank you all for your advice , its a stressful time right now and sometime you dont think straight , i will be posting the appeal by the end of the week along with a new letter from the sister in laws company in and translated to english and signed by both her bosses, also my account and a letter from the sister in law explaining that she was only try to do everthing correct.

will keep you all posted

once again thanks

Note that you dont have to file all paperwork when you submit the appeal. I would suggest you submit the appeal then fill in the section that you have further paperwork to follow.

You have the choice of filing the appeal in Bangkok or Uk. I chose Bangkok because i felt it would be quicker, but i have since been told that it would have been better to file in the UK.

In my humble opinion the visa section dont respect the appellant one iota and will take everyday available to them which suggests to me that they want to frustrate.

I would file in the Uk and now with hindsight i would have chosen to attend the hearing in the Uk as my wifes representative. I can assure you from my conversation with the tribunal that the embassy staff and their practices are not held in high regard with the tribunal.

I wish you luck but as previously stated, be patient.

[norrona]

Seanee I do hope that was just your experience as I am waiting for an ECO to decide whether my fiancees settlement appeal will be overturned or not in BKK, they called her when she tried to chase them up a bit and said 'we have 4 months to decide and we intend to take the full 4 months' appeal was put in beginning of April, they sent the first tier tribunal letter saying 26th July as the date set and will contact us by letter, then the embassy call and say some time in August.....

the mind boggles

[theoldgit]

'we have 4 months to decide and we intend to take the full 4 months'

That is really sad and strikes of vindictiveness, we have the power and we will use it.

Really hope I am doing them an injustice.

[7by7]

I would file in the Uk and now with hindsight i would have chosen to attend the hearing in the Uk as my wifes representative.

This would only have added a further two weeks to the process.

If the appeal is filed in the UK then the FTTIAC open a file and then send everything to the embassy concerned for the entry clearance office there to review and either overturn the refusal or add their comments and return to the tribunal. Nominating someone. sponsor or a professional, to attend the hearing in the UK will not speed the process up as such a hearing will only be held if the refusal is not overturned in post.

See 6. Timescales (out of country appeals)

Obviously, embassies dragging their feet over appeals is totally unacceptable, as are the comments reported by Norrona. However, one must remember that the entry clearance officers do have other work to do and one assumes that appellants would want their appeal looked at properly with the chance of it being overturned in post rather than quickly scanned, stamped and sent back to the UK to join the lengthy waiting list, three to six months minimum I believe, for a hearing. Also. in the case of Bangkok the office was closed, and the staff presumably absent, for some time during the protests.

Not acceptable reasons for unnecessary delay, though, especially to those who have been, or are currently going through, this ordeal.

Whilst not wishing to comment directly on any pending appeals, it must be said that from reading forums such as this one and the records of the FTTIAC, and AIT before them, that most refusals are down to errors by the applicant or sponsor; usually missing evidence. The moral being check and make sure that you have everything covered, do not assume that what's obvious to you will be obvious to the ECO and provide answers to every conceivable question about the application; backed up with evidence.

Best wishes to all those currently involved in an appeal for a speedy and satisfactory resolution.

[chadstar]

just like to thank you all for your advice , its a stressful time right now and sometime you dont think straight , i will be posting the appeal by the end of the week along with a new letter from the sister in laws company in and translated to english and signed by both her bosses, also my account and a letter from the sister in law explaining that she was only try to do everthing correct.

Good luck with the appeal, I suspect that it will go all the way, though I hope I'm wrong.

I think that your sister in law will need to convince the adjudicator, whether it be the ECM or the tribunal that the bosses were confused by the call from the ECO or one of their locally employed Thai speaking staff.

yes the call was in thai i just thought the officer spoke thai.

i will be doing the appeal from here so if any one would like to help me please be my geust plenty of beer in fridge , i cold do with advice on if i need to fill out that im the reposentative and the sponser?