Prostitution : Is It Wrong To Pay For Sex ?

[MJP]

I do think the MOd is saying it's okay to discuss, read again..

Sorry old chap, my diabetes is roaring tonight and it affects my vision and cognitive abilities.

I'm going to leave it that, but do consider the gravity of what the BMA are reporting and see if you can find evidence to the contrary from a reputable source.

Many thanks

[Ulysses G.]

Never mind.

Edited July 25, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[mark45y]

I wonder about men paying for sex with ladyboys, do they consider themselves heterosexual.

Ladyboys have working equipment and allegedly use it on 90 percent of their customers.

Completely wrong.

Case in point, on any given night 30-50% of the Ladyboys in Patpong (not streetwalkers) are post-op.

And I don't know any straight guy that had ask any pre-op to be 'done' by them. Maybe a bi man would...

Who tells you these things? Like post op stats.

Go inte a gogo bar, become friends with some and one day you ask them about them and all around. Or find out for yourself. Up to you.

I would say 5 to 10% maximum. But I am not an expert. I posted the question on the largest Thai Ladyboy site. I will let you know the answer when it comes.

[sarahsbloke]

I wonder about men paying for sex with ladyboys, do they consider themselves heterosexual.

Ladyboys have working equipment and allegedly use it on 90 percent of their customers.

Completely wrong.

Case in point, on any given night 30-50% of the Ladyboys in Patpong (not streetwalkers) are post-op.

And I don't know any straight guy that had ask any pre-op to be 'done' by them. Maybe a bi man would...

Who tells you these things? Like post op stats.

Go inte a gogo bar, become friends with some and one day you ask them about them and all around. Or find out for yourself. Up to you.

An interview was recently done with a group of p4p ladyboys in Bangkok, in the interview the LBs stated they all had working equipment and between 80 and 90 percent of their customers expected to be 'the letterbox' rather than 'the postman'. I see no reason for either them or the interviewer to lie about this. One of my friends lives with a LB, and has been for 6 years, and yes LB has working equipment and uses it on him. He does not think of himself as gay or bi ......... the LB is a lot of fun though, much more fun than most of the wives. I quite like LBs, find many of them attractive and good company, and if I were single I probably would give it a go (but not with a postop, might as well have a real woman). Why not?

TAWP, how many LBs have you actually done?

You sound like you have some personal bedroom experience with them.

Edited July 25, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Shotime]

I don't think it's wrong, provided women are treated humane. Prostitution can be a big help to avoid domestic violence and rape I think.

P.Prem

I think that this is the main point as to whether it's right or wrong. I'm not too sure about the helping with rape and/or domestic violence as they are totally different things, and what motivates these actions are completely different than engaging in paying for sex. Rape isn't really a sex act, and domestic violence has nothing to do with sex, either.

However, I do believe in treating everyone with respect. Even working girls. Prostitution is a noble profession.

"I have to agree that most Thai woman are lying when they claim to want nothing to do with Thai men. Most of them prefer them, no matter what they say to us. They are very good at telling us what we want to hear."

Never forget this, and you'll avoid a lot of problems. I can't believe there aren't more Thai women actresses. They are professionals in a lot of ways.

[MiG16]

[mark45y]

Re Post Op lady boys and paid sex. Perhaps I am being naive but what is the point of paying for sex with a lady boy if he is a girl.

I don’t think there is any rational that makes it less wrong to pay for a male prostitute than a female prostitute.

Although it may be that the size and disposition of lady boys would make those who say it is wrong to pay for sex have a different opinion.

I think the reason a lot of people question the morality of paid sex is because the person may have been abused or forced into the business.

Most of the lady boys I have met are giants. Thailand doesn’t seem to produce many petite lady boys.

And as far as disposition goes, from the stories one reads about lady boys mugging and beating up people it seems rather far fetched to assume they have been forced into sex. Who is going to pay for the hormones and operations breasts and hips and silicone faces and adams apple shaving and all those things. Also they are very aggressive people hardly what one would assume is the profile for an abused trafficked person.

And then there is the emasculation argument. If one pays a lady boy for sex does that mean that person is less likely to find a lady boy for a normal relationship? Or is the lady boy emasculated for accepting money for sex? And does the lady boy care if she is emasculated? Deep down inside does she really want to be emasculated?

Oh, the whole thing about paying a lady boy for sex is too complicated for me to understand in a moral way. It needs the expertise of a Guesthouse or another poster with more brainpower than I.

[Chunky1]

what i took from this thread is this:

What is the dating scene like in the usa for divorced 50 year old men? it's probably terrible.

you guys better get down on your shriveled knees everyday and thank Buddha for impoverished 3rd world women.

[mark45y]

what i took from this thread is this:

What is the dating scene like in the usa for divorced 50 year old men? it's probably terrible.

you guys better get down on your shriveled knees everyday and thank Buddha for impoverished 3rd world women.

The American dating scene for 50 year old guys is fine. You get some funny comments like, “Dude, look at that, gramps is working the shore break.” And most people assume your date is your daughter not like at 40 or 45 years of age where they scowl. Driving a big car helps. Driving big old cars help. 94 Cadillac Deville has an awesome engine and the cops don’t seem to stop old guys driving Caddys. But 60 is rough. Going into a disco and doing some moves with your chick is bound to get you stares.

Although it seems young women who do go out with you expect more than they did when you were 30.

A lot of them expect money. You know in better restaurants it is typical for the man to give the lady some cash to tip the womens room attendant. I used to give them a ten or a twenty. But in my 50’s they seemed to expect a $50? Is this just like paying for sex? Is it wrong?

[manarak]

this thread is really hilarious.

maybe a poll would be intersting?

[mark45y]

It would be even better in a debate. Let each side pick three debaters have an opening statement and rebuttal statements and closing statements. Have a poll at the beginning and at the end like on TV and see who won the debate.

Or you could do it instead of quiz night at a bar in Pattaya.

[IanForbes]

what i took from this thread is this:

What is the dating scene like in the usa for divorced 50 year old men? it's probably terrible.

you guys better get down on your shriveled knees everyday and thank Buddha for impoverished 3rd world women.

Bingo! Give Chunky a kewpie doll from the top shelf. There are some lovely looking, 40 year old, available ladies walking around in USA, but 90% of them carry a lot of baggage... just as do the 40 and 50 year old single men. The baggage is what destroys 75% of second marriages. By "baggage" I mean children from a previous marriage, or various abuses that change a person's personality, After dealing with those women with baggage the single men either turn into bitter monks or they take trips to places like Thailand. About 90% of the older, single men I meet in Thailand have similar tales to tell. I'm not talking about the young backpackers out having a fling in Thailand. Their viewpoint will be entirely different than older men. That is why I'm tolerant of Sokai's point of view.

[sokal]

@MiG16

Thanks for taking the time to put your point of view

I like the idea that Joe Average may well be a little unimpressed with his employment and thus this situation is not exclusive to the pay for sex arena. I think any person who attempts to elevate themselves from an uncomfortable/unsatisfactory employment position is to be applauded, perhaps some of the more fortunate are in possession of more training,skills, and attributes to facilitate that change in fortunes, or perhaps retain the financial means to obtain such. I think this is where the choices debate lies......perhaps some as you rightly state accept the status quo.......because things could be worse!!!!..................ever tried a day in the rice paddy....I have....reaping, and also planting, bare feet, in mud, water up to your knees. Perhaps you wouldn't have to take up the horizontal profession after all. But be quick to get your experience.....the machines are coming to put more wealth in the hands of the rich, and reduce this avenue of employment for the poor!!!!

Perhaps there is a thought that some attempts on the thread to undermine the over justification of the 'users' is somehow a judgement on the suppliers.....in my case it is not....I have met some charming, entertaining, and certainly very imaginative and resourceful people in my contact with the 'pay for sex' industry, yes, and sadly as pointed out by MJP death too. To do what they do and on many occasions who they do it with......well I remember a thread where I actully caught a bit of flack for calling prostitutes 'heroes'.....

I will not take the thread off course by entering into debate on your military comments, suffice to say "supply and demand" cuts across many occupations perhaps how the demand is created is the bigger question?

It does not just have to do with poor Thai women and supply and demand. There are many countries in the world with poor disadvantaged women that do not have the same following as Thai women.

Thai culture and Thai women are unique on how they view sex. Its only the misguided westerners on this thread that think they can label these women in 2 distinct groups, the ones that are "prostitutes" and the ones that are not.

[sokal]

You get even better and confirm to me what I'd already thought before Sokal, IMO most of what you know about women comes from the internet and books/news papers and what people tell, you now resort to producing charts from Thaisextalk.com to try and impress me and the forum, well got news for ya, you don't me, maybe some of the forum are impressed, is that a poll coming on, but you gave me a Sunday laugh anyway so thanks..

How old am I and how do I look, well I can say that I'm older and much wiser than you IMO, and the ladies call me hansum man, sexy man, but never papa, the UK just say hiya gorgeous...

You have no idea of the kind of Thai ladies I meet and socialise with, you just assume, you also assume that some women I go with are in 350lb range post 454 or was that a misunderstanding, you assume too much..

I misunderstand nothing of what you post Sokal, re-read what you have posted in this thread and if your honest with your self you'll see that it's you who misunderstands "yourself" and think you know it all...Remember a post you made when you said..

"I am not the shortest fattest baldest guy around yet I have come to realize just what women really want. There is nothing wrong with it, its just natural."

You keep kidding yourself Sokal,IMO, one day you'll wake up and realise it was just a wet dream..

No actually I found that chart when I was just making a visit to http://absolutelybangkok.com/ which is not a "whoring" site or anything. They where having a western woman convo on there and I posted this

[sokal]

what i took from this thread is this:

What is the dating scene like in the usa for divorced 50 year old men? it's probably terrible.

you guys better get down on your shriveled knees everyday and thank Buddha for impoverished 3rd world women.

Just in case you didn't notice, Thailand is not the only place in this world with impoverished 3rd world women.

Why did 920,000 more men then women come to Thailand in 03 ? Because Thai women are unique.

[Chunky1]

is the sex tourism good in Kazakhstan?

Edited July 25, 2010 by Chunky1

[MAJIC]

Financial arrangements are a verbal contract between consenting adults,regardless of morality issues.

[sokal]

is the sex tourism good in Kazakhstan?

No, but there is more impoverished third world women in Kazakhstan then there is in Thailand which validates my point..

[sarahsbloke]

It does not just have to do with poor Thai women and supply and demand. There are many countries in the world with poor disadvantaged women that do not have the same following as Thai women.

Thai culture and Thai women are unique on how they view sex. Its only the misguided westerners on this thread that think they can label these women in 2 distinct groups, the ones that are "prostitutes" and the ones that are not.

I have to agree with Sokal on this

Thai ladies do seem to view sex and cash in a totally different way to other cultures (rich or poor)

There are also those foreigners who totally misjudge what is happening in Thai society, even the most traditional and conservative Thais (men and women) are getting plenty of sex, it just isn't out there for most people to see.

As a lady (not a prostitute) once said to me 'there are many men who want to have sex with me, and very little difference between them, so I might as well sleep with the ones who give me money and gold'

Edited July 26, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Ulysses G.]

Two thoughtful posts.

[mark45y]

It does not just have to do with poor Thai women and supply and demand. There are many countries in the world with poor disadvantaged women that do not have the same following as Thai women.

Thai culture and Thai women are unique on how they view sex. Its only the misguided westerners on this thread that think they can label these women in 2 distinct groups, the ones that are "prostitutes" and the ones that are not.

I have to agree with Sokal on this

Thai ladies do seem to view sex and cash in a totally different way to other cultures (rich or poor)

There are also those foreigners who totally misjudge what is happening in Thai society, even the most traditional and conservative Thais (men and women) are getting plenty of sex, it just isn't out there for most people to see.

As a lady (not a prostitute) once said to me 'there are many men who want to have sex with me, and very little difference between them, so I might as well sleep with the ones who give me money and gold'

Her parents owned large citrus orchards and a juice processing business. She was in her last year of college and had everything. Beauty, brains and great future.

I was convinced the only reason she talked to me was to practice her English and internationalize her view of world affairs.

We all lived in Chiang Mai. I was going to Bangkok for a friends special 40th birthday party it was going to be a big bash. She asked if she could join us. I worried about the Uni girl from a small town in the big city. I was worried my friends in Bangkok might scare or offend her because the ladies were a bit on the trashy side. But she insisted on coming even though I warned her.

The first night she stayed with us I had a conservative evening planned so as not to upset her. I shouldn’t have worried. An hour after she arrived a young Thai guy pulled up to our hotel in a BMW to pick her up. He was an intern at a Bangkok hospital. She got home late. I had waited up for her like a worried father. When she arrived I questioned her like a father would. She laughed and said she didn’t lose her virginity. Why? Cause he didn’t offer a Honda Jazz. That’s what she wanted a new Honda Jazz. This is certainly not an isolated incident in my experience of the pay for play trade. Although I rarely agree with Sokal in this area of Thai women being unique I do come down on his side. Is it prostitution? Is it right or wrong? Is a Honda Jazz any different than a short time fee? Nope. As the man said in the old joke, “we already know what kind of lady your are we are just haggling about the price.”

[473geo]

Interesting points here, Thai women perhaps are more honest and open about their sexuality, can you guys go on to explain why the Thai ladies involved in prostitution are a little coy about their profession if their occupation is so readily accepted in Thailand. Why many relatives of the families I know, appear to work in Pattaya bakeries!!! I think there is plenty of bread and dough made in Pattaya but not in hot ovens!!

In my opinion, poverty plays a part in the amount of prostitution available in Thailand, also fuelled by an unswerving loyalty to support impoverished parents by any means possible. Though obviously not in all cases. Sex may well be a natural instinctive act, but not many natural activities have 20 males serving one female in a day, or perhaps Sokal you have a chart to highlight my possible misconception.

Edited July 26, 2010 by 473geo

[Ulysses G.]

Interesting points here, Thai women perhaps are more honest and open about their sexuality, can you guys go on to explain why the Thai ladies involved in prostitution are a little coy about their profession if their occupation is so readily accepted in Thailand.

Appearance is more important than reality in these parts and going to a hooker is all fine and dandy, but being one is something to keep hidden. In the West, we would call it hypocrisy.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[zzaa09]

It would be even better in a debate. Let each side pick three debaters have an opening statement and rebuttal statements and closing statements. Have a poll at the beginning and at the end like on TV and see who won the debate.

Hmmm....a proper debate. Wouldn't points made from opposing sides be a bit moot? Regardless of one's feelings or arguments towards this subject {good, bad, indifferent} at any level, the fact remains it is what it is. It's been around forever and more than likely will be around forever.

[473geo]

Interesting points here, Thai women perhaps are more honest and open about their sexuality, can you guys go on to explain why the Thai ladies involved in prostitution are a little coy about their profession if their occupation is so readily accepted in Thailand.

Appearance is more important than reality in these parts and going to a hooker is all fine and dandy, but being one is something to keep hidden. In the West, we would call it hypocrisy.

In a sexualy liberated country such as Thailand, where the females follow natural instinct, and have a differing view to sexual activity compared to their more reserved, programmed, western counterparts..........surely not UG..........or are you saying Prostitution is not socially accepted in liberated natural Thailand?

[Ulysses G.]

It is certainly accepted, but not considered a very impressive job. Think about being a garbage man in the West.

[473geo]

It would be even better in a debate. Let each side pick three debaters have an opening statement and rebuttal statements and closing statements. Have a poll at the beginning and at the end like on TV and see who won the debate.

Hmmm....a proper debate. Wouldn't points made from opposing sides be a bit moot? Regardless of one's feelings or arguments towards this subject {good, bad, indifferent} at any level, the fact remains it is what it is. It's been around forever and more than likely will be around forever.

Followed by the line under you post...................."all things appear and disappear....."

[473geo]

It is certainly accepted, but not considered a very impressive job. Think about being a garbage man in the West.

Early start, mid afternoon finish for a beer, nothing wrong with working as a garbage man!!!!........I think it depends who is doing the accepting don't you UG.....

[Ulysses G.]

There is nothing wrong with being a sex worker either, but some people need to look down on others to make themselves feel better.

[473geo]

There is nothing wrong with being a sex worker either, but some people need to look down on others to make themselves feel better.

I have great admiration for the sex workers, they please many, I question if they enjoy their profession as much as some would have us believe.......in order to justify payment for sex........