Thai-Lao Ny Sound

[katana]

Reading through some Lao websites, apparently Lao has an extra consonant sound at the beginning of a word that eg English and Thai lack, the NY sound.

eg

Baw Pen Nyung - It's nothing/Don't mention it

Seuh Jâo Bpen Nyung? - What's your name

sii nyak - intersection

etc

Is this Lao NY sound at the beginning of a Lao word, the same sound as the NY sound that occurs in the middle of a Thai or English word? Or is it too simplistic to equate them?

eg

in the Thai word, Panya - ปัญญา

or the he English word, onion

Thanks in advance for any info.

[Richard W]

The relationship is not a simple as one might hope. This 'ny' sound in Lao is indeed the sound represented by 'ñ' in Spanish, 'gn' in Italian and 'ญ' in Pali and Sanskrit. However, even when doubled (which can't happen in Lao) the sound is not quite the same as 'ny' - Sanskrit for instances distinguished the sequence from the doubled sound ญญ, although they often correspond between Sanskrit and Pali. The Lao - and Northern Thai - sound is very difficult for an English speaker to distinguish from the 'y' sound at the start of a syllable, which is the only place where it occurs in Tai dialects.

[bannork]

Ask an Issan speaker to say the Issan word for walk,I've seen it written in Thai as ย่าง but it's got the ny beginning and is certainly different to the Thai (ไก่) ย่าง for example.

[katana]

Thanks Richard and bannork.

I'd seen a few Lao language sites implying that the NY sound at the beginning of a Lao word is equivalent to eg the NY sound in the English word onion or canyon, but if I understand you correctly, you're saying it's not exactly the same, but close.

[Richard W]

There's a detailed explanation of how to make the sound in Spanish at How to pronounce the Spanish ñ. However, I suspect the sound-clip is a bit too alveolar at the start. There's a clip of the sound in Lao at http://www.seasite.niu.edu/lao/ - a site plagued by frames. Choose consonant sounds in the left hand panel, and then click in the sound for the mosquito word ຍຸງ. The nasality is much less pronounced.