Hundred Days

[suprnogo]

Has anyone here experienced the '100 days' ceremony that follows death?

I will be attending one a few weeks from now and am unsure of protocol, what exactly the ceremony is, who will be there.

The ceremony is in Udon Thani.

Personal expericence or any resource that outlines death in Thailand would be much appreciated.

Peace.

[Gohonzon]

Has anyone here experienced the '100 days' ceremony that follows death?

Personal expericence or any resource that outlines death in Thailand would be much appreciated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure about this 100 day ceremony. I did go to my wife's grandmother's funeral though. And actually enjoyed it. Something like going to a party really. The whole community was there sharing food and chatting in between the chanting,etc. No particular protocol needed; only your usual respect for the host culture.

I think that the 100 day ceremony (90 days within my own tradition) may be to do with; that after a person dies , for a period of time after death, the 'fundamental mind' remains. And ,therefore, that one should allow that mind to hear sounds of Dharama and life until after passing the point at which not only is a return to life not possible, but also that the person finally proceeds towards complete death. This may be the point that's described in Buddhism as the ,'river of three crossings'.

At least that's my (admittedly limited) understanding.

However, this (below) link may inform you more as to the death ceremony within the Theravada tradtion, as most commonly practiced in Thailand.

http://www.country-studies.com/thailand/bu...r-religion.html

Edited July 2, 2005 by Gohonzon

[camerata]

I'm not sure about this 100 day ceremony. I did go to my wife's grandmother's funeral though. And actually enjoyed it. Something like going to a party really. The whole community was there sharing food and chatting in between the chanting,etc. No particular protocol needed; only your usual respect for the host culture.

The only 100-days ceremony I went to was the same. Most of the male guests were drinking whisky and playing cards - a very relaxed atmosphere. I don't remember any formal proceedings at all, but I was given an amulet at the end of the ceremony.

[Nordlys]

So it takes 100 days till reincarnation with Theravada buddhism and not 49 days like it is believed in Japan, China and Tibet?

[camerata]

So it takes 100 days till reincarnation with Theravada buddhism and not 49 days like it is believed in Japan, China and Tibet?

According to http://www.buddhanet.net/funeral.htm this event is just an optional "final prayer ceremony" after the 49-day ceremony, and seems to be Chinese in origin.

[Gohonzon]

So it takes 100 days till reincarnation with Theravada buddhism and not 49 days like it is believed in Japan, China and Tibet?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, it is 49 days in the Japanese tradition, and not the 90 that I mistakenly wrote.

However, I don't think that the length time of any ceremony after death has anything to do with rebirth. According to my Japanese friend ,rebirth can happen instantaniously, or after a considerable amount of time, depending ... Who knows when? The ceremony is to do with the time that the 'fundemental mind' takes to dissolve into the universe. Or 'the river of three crossings'.

[suprnogo]

Do you know the Lao Issan/Thai terms for 'fundemental mind' and 'the river of three crossings' ?

[Nordlys]

So it takes 100 days till reincarnation with Theravada buddhism and not 49 days like it is believed in Japan, China and Tibet?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, it is 49 days in the Japanese tradition, and not the 90 that I mistakenly wrote.

However, I don't think that the length time of any ceremony after death has anything to do with rebirth. According to my Japanese friend ,rebirth can happen instantaniously, or after a considerable amount of time, depending ... Who knows when? The ceremony is to do with the time that the 'fundemental mind' takes to dissolve into the universe. Or 'the river of three crossings'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, as far as Buddhism practiced in Japan (or at least Buddhist ceremony practiced in Japan) it is strictly 49 days, I believe. Not every family does it, but we do hold the 7th day sermon after the death and also the 49th day ceremony, both of which are nothing more than just inviting monks and chanting the sutra with the presence of family and close relatives (but unlike funeral usually without friends), though, I have never attended one to see it. And usually with the 49th day over, the official mourning period ends. I used to think it was a belief/custom unique to Japan, till one day many years ago I came across a book on the famous 'Tibetan Book of the Dead', which depicts a Tibetan Buddhist monk reading 'Bardo Thodol' scroll as a guide to help deceased reach nirvana or at least to be reincarnated to human, and that continues till 49th day after the death (but starts before the death). Have you folks ever heard of 7th day and 49th day ceremony in Thailand?

BTW, I used to think 'the river of three crossings' was also a Japanese concept till I came across this thread, and frankly I didn't even know it had to do with Buddhism. It's called 'Sanzu no Kawa' in Japanese, is there a wording for it in Thai?

Edited July 3, 2005 by Nordlys

[Gohonzon]

I think that 'the three river crossing' is a Japanese concept. I practice within the Nichiren tradition, so adopt the phrase from my studies in Nichiren Buddhism.

Of course in our tradition we don't recite from the Lotus Sutra per se. But chant Daimoku for a person when dying, and after death for 49 days.

I don't know the precise translation of three river crossing into Thai. But it'd be something like

kahm mair nahm sahm.

I'm sure that someone will corrrect me if I'm wrong.

I hate to be pedantic. But in Buddhism we don't usually use the term reincarnation, as it's misleading. Reincarnation suggests that life-force infuses form. But form always has life force. So we tend to say rebirth instead.

Edited July 3, 2005 by Gohonzon

[Nordlys]

I hate to be pedantic. But in Buddhism we don't usually use the term reincarnation, as it's misleading. Reincarnation suggests that life-force infuses form. But form always has life force. So we tend to say rebirth instead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the input

So it's 'rebirth' and that's the term commonly used in this forum?

Actually I haven't done any reading about Buddhism in English so I wasn't quite sure if I were using the correct terminology (and for that matter I probably don't even know the true meaning of any Buddhist terms even in my own language), so please excuse my ignorance in that regard. Even Lotus Sutra vs Daimoku.... thought the difference was just the matter of language.

Edited July 3, 2005 by Nordlys

[Gohonzon]

I hate to be pedantic. But in Buddhism we don't usually use the term reincarnation, as it's misleading. Reincarnation suggests that life-force infuses form. But form always has life force. So we tend to say rebirth instead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the input

So it's 'rebirth' and that's the term commonly used in this forum?

Actually I haven't done any reading about Buddhism in English so I wasn't quite sure if I were using the correct terminology (and for that matter I probably don't even know the true meaning of any Buddhist terms even in my own language), so please excuse my ignorance in that regard. Even Lotus Sutra vs Daimoku.... thought the difference was just the matter of language.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Nordlys

sorry to be misleading myself here. But it isn't a question of Lotus Sutra vs Daimoku. Daimoku is the chanting of Nam-Myho-Renge-Kyo (devotion to the Sutra of the Lotus Blossom of the Wonderful Law.) That is, the Lotus Sutra. Although when broken down into the Chinese characters, each of the five syllables compromising Myho-Renge-Kyo have deeper and more profound meanings. However, part of our practice is to recite sections of the Lotus Sutra daily, as well as chanting Daimoku.

I used the term Daimoku because I assumed for some reason that you were Japanese and ,therefore , would have been familiar with the term Daimoku. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Also, I just mentioned about using the term 'reincarnation' instead of 'rebirth' because several people seemed to use the former.

Edited July 3, 2005 by Gohonzon

[Nordlys]

sorry to be misleading myself here. But it isn't a question of Lotus Sutra vs Daimoku. Daimoku is the chanting of  Nam-Myho-Renge-Kyo (devotion to the Sutra of the Lotus Blossom of the Wonderful Law.) That is, the Lotus Sutra. Although when broken down into the Chinese characters, each of the five syllables compromising Myho-Renge-Kyo have deeper and more profound meanings. However, part of our practice is to recite sections of the Lotus Sutra daily, as well as chanting Daimoku.

I used the term Daimoku because I assumed for some reason that you were Japanese and ,therefore , would have been familiar with the term Daimoku. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Gohonzon

Yes, 'Nam-Myho-Renge-Kyo' sounds very familiar.

But is it possible 'Daimoku' is the term used specifically among Nichiren sect Buddhist? I think most Japanese would refer to 'Nam-Myho-Renge-Kyo' sutra as simply 'okyou' (sutra) or 'dokyou' (reading/chanting of sutra), without any reference to a sect.

Excuse my novice question again.... What sutra is Thai 'Namotassa Pakawato Arrahato...' chanting called? Is it also Lotus Sutra??

Edited July 4, 2005 by Nordlys

[RamdomChances]

I'm not sure about this 100 day ceremony. I did go to my wife's grandmother's funeral though. And actually enjoyed it. Something like going to a party really. The whole community was there sharing food and chatting in between the chanting,etc. No particular protocol needed; only your usual respect for the host culture.

The only 100-days ceremony I went to was the same. Most of the male guests were drinking whisky and playing cards - a very relaxed atmosphere. I don't remember any formal proceedings at all, but I was given an amulet at the end of the ceremony.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The drinking and playing cards come's after the ceromony (monks doing their thing) same as at the funerals, playing cards and drinking before the monks have finnished is very bad form, prehaps you got there late.

[camerata]

The drinking and playing cards come's after the ceromony (monks doing their thing) same as at the funerals, playing cards and drinking before the monks have finnished is very bad form, prehaps you got there late. 

Very likely. It was a long time ago and I don't remember any ceremony with monks.

[Boon Mee]

Can anyone answer why there's an option as I understand it, either have the 100 Day Ceremony or have the 'One Year'.

My father-in-law has just passed away and my wife and her sisters want my mother-in-law to go for the 'one year' ceremony.

Cheers,

BM

[sbk]

Never heard of drinking or gambling at a 100 days merit making ceremony. And when my grandfather-in-law died there was a tambun (merit making) for the 100 days and the 1 year.

Here, anyway, merit making (pai tambun) involves cooking up a big meal, feeding the monks and providing them with new robes or baskets of stuff (you can buy the ready filled baskets). There is prayer (chanting), very early morning I might add, the donations are made to the monks, the monks eat, then the family eats. Often a donation to the temple is made at this point too. When my uncle-in-law died his daughter had a roof built for the cooking area. My father-in-law donated a new floor for the eating area. Also, it was at the 100 days of his grandfather that my husband became a monk.

[RamdomChances]

Yes they usually have 2 100 days then 1 year. My experiance with them is more or less the same as SBK's have'nt been to many though only close family

[Rinrada]

Last one I attended was wifes sisters do about 6 months ago and sure enough we had the whole setup.

As the only N.Thai family member I was of course involved in the whole thing from picking up our 9 monks to making sure everyone was roughly in the same place at the same time.

The chanting started at about 8-00 in the morning (and just about done my back in... ) and then everone got blessed ..buckets of holy water and then feeding time.

Women cant touch the monks so that also where i came in....whos for rice/...more veg....ice cream for afters ...a mixture of casualness but also RESPECT.

We had the funeral on the Chao Praya but (mentioned before) as I am again in the middle of everything was carrying the bones wife noticed that her sisters name had not been inscribed

Can understand reasoning ..all to do with getting lost without a name and cant be found....she was bloody annoyed.

So jumped on a bike and got a guy to do the printing (only on one piece)

Everything after that went very well with a trip "round the lighthouse" and we finally disposed of sister in a very easy going manner.....candles,flowers,the holy oil..a few tears... and then.....a big wave and bye bye from everyone with the sounds of good luck.....see you again some time.

Took me all of my time to hold on to grannys sister (piszed)with one arm and with the other the old head monk to stop them both falling into the water ...no he was not..pi...

Anyway as they say in the Uk ...all in all ...a nice wee do

[Boon Mee]

There was drinking and gambling at my father-in-law's funeral but it started after the Monks performed their ceremony w/exception of my wife's aunt and her cronies which was quickly put down.

I'm curious what the Buddhist theological background is for the '100 days' and the 'one year' and what factors determine which are performed.

Perhaps there are different customs in different parts of Thailand - e.g. the south/Issan etc?