Investing In Baht Mutual Funds

[Wentworth]

I'm looking at investing in Mutual Funds denominated in Thai Baht. I'd be grateful for recommendations on brokers/fund providers within Thailand. The amounts don't make it worthwhile to go offshore or involving costly transactions outside of Thailand and I want to keep the money in Thai Baht.

[chanwit]

A Farang friend gave me this link to Asia Plus Securities because I had the same interest. I have not gone beyond just looking over the web site so tell me what you think for future use.

http://inv2.asiaplus.co.th/cms/index.php

Edited July 20, 2010 by chanwit

[ray23]

Aberdeen is available here I tried it for three months, my investments here far out paced them. The commission rate was high compared to stocks. To put it in perspective I had 15 K in it. Closed it got 14 K back.

If you are looking many years down line, probably OK. But I'm 63 have the time, to watch what the markets are doing. Belong to a stock club and have good guidance.

Made some very savvy friends here about the market.

Safer I would think so in mutual funds. But you don't get the same returns.

With Aberdeen you can decide what areas you want to participate in and I was paid in Baht.

Thar is the only one I have experience with.

[Wentworth]

I'm grateful for your information. I would grateful if you could let me know the website; I say that as I've heard of Aberdeen but want to make sure I get the right department etc. I'm aiming for Mutual Funds as I look at it in the long term eg 20 years. I have enough time to research and keep up to date but not as much as you would need for stocks. I'm trading Mutual Funds outside of Thailand already so I understand them and I'm comfortable with them. How about the Stock Club, is that separate from Aberdeen? I'd be interested to see if there's something that could help with Mutual Funds

[chiangmaibruce]

No disrespect to Ray but I don't agree that direct share investments are the best way to go for many - if not most - average mum & dad investors.

I think you will find that over 12 months or more the better Thai mutual funds consistently outperform the SET average even after deducting management fees. And to say that the average hobbyist investor will achieve even the SET average is being pretty optimistic in most cases.

I can point you to the stats as presented within a recently released book - anyone who wants details pls send me a pm.

[aussiebebe]

Hi Wentworth,

If you are working, you can read the Revenue Dept. website http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html and see you can invest up to 15% of your salary (maximum 500,000 baht) per year in Mutual Funds and recieve a tax allowance on this investment. This alone can make investment worthwhile, even if, for arguments say, the fund fails to appreciate in a given year.

Even if you're retired, you can buy Mutual funds at any Thai bank, Bangkok Bank, Kasikorn, TMB, Siam, Tisco - all of them. Bangkok Bank has an informative page http://www.bangkokbank.com/bangkok%20bank/personal%20banking/investments%20and%20fixed/mutual%20funds/pages/default.aspx (I don't know how to add a neat link - if anyone can advise, thank!). You must read the terms and conditions thoroughly and ensure Mutual funds are suitable to your situtaion and proposed duration of stay in Thailand. All investment carries risk.

[Wentworth]

I'm very grateful for all the help. I'm not working but still grateful for the tax advice. I have internet banking with Bangkok Bank and it 'looks', (careful what say at the moment) good for investing online in bank funds. It would make it easier, but they only have a small amount of funds. I just want to see what's on offer from Kosher fund providers.

[fletchsmile]

Aberdeen is available here I tried it for three months, my investments here far out paced them. The commission rate was high compared to stocks. To put it in perspective I had 15 K in it. Closed it got 14 K back.

If you are looking many years down line, probably OK. But I'm 63 have the time, to watch what the markets are doing. Belong to a stock club and have good guidance.

Made some very savvy friends here about the market.

Safer I would think so in mutual funds. But you don't get the same returns.

With Aberdeen you can decide what areas you want to participate in and I was paid in Baht.

Thar is the only one I have experience with.

Ray,

Fees on buying and selling mutual funds for Aberdeen and other mutual funds are generally around only 1%. This is highly comparable to commission on buying stocks.

The fee is often built into the bid-offer spread for mutual funds. When you put in 15k and got back 14k, what will have happened is that the market fell between you placing an order to buy and placing an order to sell. This 6%+ drop is not due to fees but market movements. The same can happen with your shares. Mutual funds do also have annual managment charges of around 0.5 - 1.5%, but you will not have suffered these in such a short period, it will have been market movements.

It's worth differentiating between your activities in stocks which is essentially short term "trading" vs "investing" in mutual fundings which is usually more suitable for longer term periods of say 3-5 years.

It's not necessarily correct to state you get better returns investing in individual stocks. The intentions are different. Mutual funds aim to make money longer term whereas day traders or traders are looking for short term profits.

Over 10 years for example, Aberdeen Growth Fund is up 540%. So 1mio baht invested 10 years ago is now worth 6.4mio.

Bear in mind that your recent individual gains have been over a period of a few months. It's long term consistency that really counts. The Thai stock markets are all up this year. While taking more risk in a rising market can gives better returns, beware getting hammered by taking too much risk in falling markets. Mutual funds are generally safer as you say, because they diversify funds across many individual stock holdings. On the other hand they don't necessarily give the roller coster ride iof some individual Thai stocks.

Edited July 21, 2010 by fletchsmile

[ray23]

In the end guys we all different, we have different needs and different means to achieve our goals. I don't think there is a right answer that fits all. Mutual funds simply don't fit my needs. I have the time to baby sit my funds, not everyone does.

I joined a investment group where good research is done, To walk in off the street and just invest in stocks more then likely you will fail. Good research is essential and not always easy to get. Yesterday was a good example SET went from 834 to 821 in hours. Today its back to 830.

I sold the stocks that were not performing to the level I want, in the end I ended up with exactly the same profit and less exposure. I spend lots of time following charts reviewing news Ect. To make a long story short you have to work at it.

Not everyone has the time to that, if you don't mutual is the way to go. Absolutely nothing wrong with them if they fit your needs.

So I hope everyone makes money in whatever best suits there needs. I have made 70K baht in the last four months with an investment of 120K in stocks. But, that being said it was done in 15K increments and was money that would not hurt me if I lost it.

No you can't just walk through the door and hand over the money and let someone else do it. If your working that is a huge advantage. Just not my situation. If things go south you can sale out in a matter of mins. but you have to be on top of things.

I do a lot of study and have lots more to learn had I not found the club I would not have tried it.

There is no magic answer, it in what you need.

[aurelius]

The funds that Bangkok Bank provides access to on its website are funds managed by BBL Asset Management which is a separate but related company - in the top three in terms of funds under management. Access to the stock market is via Bualuang Securities which has its own website which is not linked to the Bangkok Bank internet banking system. Bangkok Bank is pretty much the sole distributor of the BBLAM funds - info is available on Bangkok Bank's website and on BBLAM's - fund fact sheets are in English (but in general the prospectus' are in Thai)

There are 2 long term equities investments that the govt allows 500k tax rebate on - one is the Long Term Fund (LTF) which carries a minimum of 5 years term; the other is Retirement Mutual Fund (RMF) which has to be held to age 55. Within these 2 product categories are a range of products with various risk profiles - some are heavily equities, there's a gold fund, and others are mainly bonds. Outside of that, there are a range of open funds which are daily traded and also some auto-redeeming funds for specified periods. Last week there was a Trigger Fund with a target of 15% return over a max of 2 years; it has closed now, but I believe there will be another similar fund available soon. Most of the open funds have no buy and sell fees, and the settlement is next business day - i.e. sell today before 4pm & funds are received tomorrow. The internet banking site also lets you set future dated trades, and recurring. Also, the daily traded funds can also be bought and sold by ATM. You need to start at a branch to do KYC/ Risk profile and to do the fund opening process.

[Wentworth]

I'm grateful for the info on Bangkok Bank funds. The investments are for my stepson who is very young. Generally I thought the BBL funds looked alright compared to other providers. The main thing I have in mind is that I'll have only small amounts for him and I could trade them via my BBL internet banking page; as you mention some have no-loads and so I think this is probably the easiest option.

[chiangmaibruce]

I just thought I'd add a few stats to address a perception by some that mutual fund investments offer lame net returns in the short-medium term for relatively novice personal investors vis a vis direct share investments ... I have chosen three Thai equity funds pretty much randomly (not the top three performing funds)

K-Equity Fund. 6 month return 19.47%, 12 month return 39.04%. 1.5% management fee. 1% buy-in/sell-out fee (which I think only applies if done through agents)

ING Thai Equity Fund. 6 month return 10.63%, 12 month return 37.08%. 1.5% management fee. 1% buy-in fee

Aberdeen Siam Leaders Fund. 6 month return 20.69%, 12 month return 37.08%. 1.7% management fee. buy-in fee 0.5% and sell-out fee 0.25%

As has been stated elsewhere neither stocks nor mutual funds are necessarily good (or best) for everyone. Don't be seduced by the smooth-talking Pied Pipers of the investment world and narrow your focus too quickly. Before investing your money, first invest your time in learning a little about ALL the different investment opportunities available to you. Consider returns, but also risk, investment time-frame, the commitment of time required, and the many other factors specific to YOU.

[PCA]

I just thought I'd add a few stats to address a perception by some that mutual fund investments offer lame net returns in the short-medium term for relatively novice personal investors vis a vis direct share investments ... I have chosen three Thai equity funds pretty much randomly (not the top three performing funds)

K-Equity Fund. 6 month return 19.47%, 12 month return 39.04%. 1.5% management fee. 1% buy-in/sell-out fee (which I think only applies if done through agents)

ING Thai Equity Fund. 6 month return 10.63%, 12 month return 37.08%. 1.5% management fee. 1% buy-in fee

Aberdeen Siam Leaders Fund. 6 month return 20.69%, 12 month return 37.08%. 1.7% management fee. buy-in fee 0.5% and sell-out fee 0.25%

As has been stated elsewhere neither stocks nor mutual funds are necessarily good (or best) for everyone. Don't be seduced by the smooth-talking Pied Pipers of the investment world and narrow your focus too quickly. Before investing your money, first invest your time in learning a little about ALL the different investment opportunities available to you. Consider returns, but also risk, investment time-frame, the commitment of time required, and the many other factors specific to YOU.

Just to make it clear here: Each of your listed funds did underperform the index which had a good run up. Now mutual funds invest into shares (amongst other things) who pay out dividends as well and still are underperforming. Considering the index goes only sideways would most likely make the investor in mutual funds a loser not mentioning what's going to happen when the index trends down - Sitting on losses for a couple of months/years and having inflation and currency risk sucking on your funds make them less and less attractive.

So don't buy mutual funds if you have no basic idea about this type of investment regardless how many clueless people recommend them.

[AyG]

I don't understand why the OP wants funds denominated in Thai Baht. Suppose, theoretically, that the fund invested in the United States, the underlying assets would move in accordance with the share price of those assets and the USD/THB exchange rate. (The vast majority of equity mutual funds do not hedge the exchange rate risk - though that's not the case for bond funds.) For (almost all) equity funds the currency of denomination is irrelevant.

Most equity mutual funds in Thailand invest in the SET. Is it a good idea to be exposed to a single economy? Not, in my opinion. Much better to invest in a fund which invests regionally, rather than in a single country.

The Aberdeen funds available in Thailand (in my opinion, the best of a bad lot), have high charges. They also appear to basically invest 95% of the money in the ordinary Aberdeen funds and keep 5% in cash (to meet redemptions). This means that you're not fully invested - particularly since the underlying fund also keeps a cash reserve.

In my opinion, it would be better for most investors to invest in ETFs which track regional indices, perhaps through an off-shore broker such as Internaxx. The costs are much lower and the choice of investments greater. The only negative (in the case of Internaxx) is when taking income the money needs to be routed via a EU bank account (excluding the likes of Guernsey, Isle of Man, Jersey, etc.).

[aussiebebe]

I just thought I'd add a few stats to address a perception by some that mutual fund investments offer lame net returns in the short-medium term for relatively novice personal investors vis a vis direct share investments ... I have chosen three Thai equity funds pretty much randomly (not the top three performing funds)

K-Equity Fund. 6 month return 19.47%, 12 month return 39.04%. 1.5% management fee. 1% buy-in/sell-out fee (which I think only applies if done through agents)

ING Thai Equity Fund. 6 month return 10.63%, 12 month return 37.08%. 1.5% management fee. 1% buy-in fee

Aberdeen Siam Leaders Fund. 6 month return 20.69%, 12 month return 37.08%. 1.7% management fee. buy-in fee 0.5% and sell-out fee 0.25%

As has been stated elsewhere neither stocks nor mutual funds are necessarily good (or best) for everyone. Don't be seduced by the smooth-talking Pied Pipers of the investment world and narrow your focus too quickly. Before investing your money, first invest your time in learning a little about ALL the different investment opportunities available to you. Consider returns, but also risk, investment time-frame, the commitment of time required, and the many other factors specific to YOU.

Just to make it clear here: Each of your listed funds did underperform the index which had a good run up. Now mutual funds invest into shares (amongst other things) who pay out dividends as well and still are underperforming. Considering the index goes only sideways would most likely make the investor in mutual funds a loser not mentioning what's going to happen when the index trends down - Sitting on losses for a couple of months/years and having inflation and currency risk sucking on your funds make them less and less attractive.

So don't buy mutual funds if you have no basic idea about this type of investment regardless how many clueless people recommend them.

The OP just asked for suggestions about where to buy mutual funds, he wasn't asking whether he should buy them or not. However, I'm quite interested in knowing this, if you'd care to explain? So the K-Equity Fund had a 12 month return 39.04% and it's 'underperforming'? or if you invest you're 'sitting on losses' and a 'loser'?. 39.04% of what? I am clueless, I really don't follow. So if buying stocks or shares is the way to go, and I've never bought stocks or shares, could you explain how you'd do this, please?

Thanks

[PCA]

I just thought I'd add a few stats to address a perception by some that mutual fund investments offer lame net returns in the short-medium term for relatively novice personal investors vis a vis direct share investments ... I have chosen three Thai equity funds pretty much randomly (not the top three performing funds)

K-Equity Fund. 6 month return 19.47%, 12 month return 39.04%. 1.5% management fee. 1% buy-in/sell-out fee (which I think only applies if done through agents)

ING Thai Equity Fund. 6 month return 10.63%, 12 month return 37.08%. 1.5% management fee. 1% buy-in fee

Aberdeen Siam Leaders Fund. 6 month return 20.69%, 12 month return 37.08%. 1.7% management fee. buy-in fee 0.5% and sell-out fee 0.25%

As has been stated elsewhere neither stocks nor mutual funds are necessarily good (or best) for everyone. Don't be seduced by the smooth-talking Pied Pipers of the investment world and narrow your focus too quickly. Before investing your money, first invest your time in learning a little about ALL the different investment opportunities available to you. Consider returns, but also risk, investment time-frame, the commitment of time required, and the many other factors specific to YOU.

Just to make it clear here: Each of your listed funds did underperform the index which had a good run up. Now mutual funds invest into shares (amongst other things) who pay out dividends as well and still are underperforming. Considering the index goes only sideways would most likely make the investor in mutual funds a loser not mentioning what's going to happen when the index trends down - Sitting on losses for a couple of months/years and having inflation and currency risk sucking on your funds make them less and less attractive.

So don't buy mutual funds if you have no basic idea about this type of investment regardless how many clueless people recommend them.

The OP just asked for suggestions about where to buy mutual funds, he wasn't asking whether he should buy them or not. However, I'm quite interested in knowing this, if you'd care to explain? So the K-Equity Fund had a 12 month return 39.04% and it's 'underperforming'? or if you invest you're 'sitting on losses' and a 'loser'?. 39.04% of what? I am clueless, I really don't follow. So if buying stocks or shares is the way to go, and I've never bought stocks or shares, could you explain how you'd do this, please?

Thanks

Thanks for clarifying.

For the rest of your post I don't have the time/ambition to give a helpfull answer which would probably just raise another ton of questions anyway but considering your general lack of understanding in financial products and very basic terms like Index/underperform/outperform, be advised that buying single stocks is not the way to go.

[aussiebebe]

Thanks for your reply. Actually what you wrote is helpful to me, so thank you, but I agree with you, it's best to leave it there. Cheers, v. appreciated:) .

I read the OP posted after you about buying the mutual funds for their stepson, there is a government savings account that he could open, maybe someone else knows more about these.

[ray23]

I didn't mean to stir up a bees nest here. What I do is best for me. He knows what he is doing and has a great deal of time and that is best for him.

I hope everybody has great investment experiences no matter how they are doing it.

[chiangmaibruce]

Just to make it clear here: Each of your listed funds did underperform the index which had a good run up. Now mutual funds invest into shares (amongst other things) who pay out dividends as well and still are underperforming. Considering the index goes only sideways would most likely make the investor in mutual funds a loser not mentioning what's going to happen when the index trends down - Sitting on losses for a couple of months/years and having inflation and currency risk sucking on your funds make them less and less attractive.

So don't buy mutual funds if you have no basic idea about this type of investment regardless how many clueless people recommend them.

So only clueless people would recommend an investment in mutual funds? Hmm, now that's a fairly bold statement - especially in the context of the discussion in this thread when the focus is on less-experienced investors and the choice between mutual funds and direct share purchases.

As for the funds I mentioned underperforming the SET index ... perhaps a re-think of that statement might also be in order ...

http://www.ingfunds.co.th/EN/PDF/FundPerformance_EN2.pdf

http://www.aberdeen-asset.co.th/aam.nsf/thailand/fundinformationperformance

http://www.kasikornasset.com/EN/MutualFund/PastPerformance/Pages/Default.aspx

[PCA]

Just to make it clear here: Each of your listed funds did underperform the index which had a good run up. Now mutual funds invest into shares (amongst other things) who pay out dividends as well and still are underperforming. Considering the index goes only sideways would most likely make the investor in mutual funds a loser not mentioning what's going to happen when the index trends down - Sitting on losses for a couple of months/years and having inflation and currency risk sucking on your funds make them less and less attractive.

So don't buy mutual funds if you have no basic idea about this type of investment regardless how many clueless people recommend them.

So only clueless people would recommend an investment in mutual funds? Hmm, now that's a fairly bold statement - especially in the context of the discussion in this thread when the focus is on less-experienced investors and the choice between mutual funds and direct share purchases.

As for the funds I mentioned underperforming the SET index ... perhaps a re-think of that statement might also be in order ...

http://www.ingfunds.co.th/EN/PDF/FundPerformance_EN2.pdf

http://www.aberdeen-asset.co.th/aam.nsf/thailand/fundinformationperformance

http://www.kasikornasset.com/EN/MutualFund/PastPerformance/Pages/Default.aspx

No, not only clueless people recommend to buy mutual funds but clueless people recommend to buy mutual funds now or do you think what you were posting is not an indirect buy recommendation? Buying now will most likely lead to the scenario I have drawn as the dangerous side of this investment type: underperformance, inflation, currency risk, management fees, ....

Now that does not have to happen with each fund but for 95% of them it will like it always does.

Buying mutual funds requires right timing as well as for any other investment but has it many more disadvantages than already listed.

Edited July 24, 2010 by PCA

[SiamRose]

For the OP, I suggest you start by investing in an index fund, such as OneAM TDEX or TMB index fund, this will track the perfomance of the SET closely. Try and invest the same amount every month, this will allow you to benefit from $ cost averageing. Plan to hold the investment for a minimum of 3 but preferably 5 to 10 years.

[SiamRose]

aussiebebe, "underperformance" refers to the relative performance of one investment relative to a some sort of benchmark, such as a stockmarket index. In this case a Thai equity fund relative to the overall Thai stock market. So if the fund goes up 39% in 12 months that is pretty good in absolute terms but if over the same period the entire stock market has gone up 50%, then the fund has underperformed. Equally if the fund fell by 10% over a certain period but the market fell 20%, then the fund would have outperformed even though it lost money. The underlying idea is that the fund manager is charging a fee to manage your money, in theory they should use this fee to employ smart managers and analysts and do research in order to buy above average investments. In practice it is not so simple and most mutual funds struggle to beat the market index over the long term. This is why i suggest investing in an index fund, at least at the beginning.

Edited July 24, 2010 by SiamRose

[cocopops]

No disrespect to Ray but I don't agree that direct share investments are the best way to go for many - if not most - average mum & dad investors.

I think you will find that over 12 months or more the better Thai mutual funds consistently outperform the SET average even after deducting management fees. And to say that the average hobbyist investor will achieve even the SET average is being pretty optimistic in most cases.

I can point you to the stats as presented within a recently released book - anyone who wants details pls send me a pm.

This may be true, except that there is no way to figure out which are the "better" mutual funds in advance.

A list of the available mutual funds and their returns always looks much better than a mutual fund investor can expect to earn due to survivor bias.

If you pick out stock-based mutual funds at random, the expected return is basically the index, less fees, less transaction costs. Think about it - if mutual funds and professional managers control most of the money in the market (and they do), then their average return must be the average return of the market. No way around that. Less transaction fees. And if you're a fund investor - less fund fees!

And you would have to be *fuc_king insane* to pay 1.7% per annum and a 1% fee on every transaction. Deadset fuc_king insane....

Now that I've said that, let me apologize - I've been drinking. But I'm still right. Your book is wrong.

Jack Bogle. William Bernstein. Blah blah blah... Ray23 - read these guys for the other side of the "genius stock pickers" story. Seriously.

Edited July 24, 2010 by cocopops

[ray23]

Ok Guys he picked his way and I picked mine. I'm happy and I'm sure he will be as well.

Lets face it investing is not one size fits all. I'm no hot shot investor, have 105 K in my portfolio is at 185. I did this investing 15K per month. I belong to Thaistocks an investors club and followed the model portfolio.

I put 5K a month into Aberdeen for a total of 15K back. My personal thoughts are if take the mutual out 15 years your going to do Ok. Saim rose hit on something I had thought about in indexs. Not I don't know enough to debate which is better.

I'm 63 I don't have 15 years, so stocks better at this juncture for me. I'm not worried losing everything it takes mins at your compute to sell completly out. But I'm retired I have time not everyone does and I watch it like a hawk.

If your still working and don't have the time. let the pros take care of it. If you go into stocks and can't find the right resources to do value investing. You either really need to know what your doing. Or have an experience person you can ask and avoid the pitfalls.

I have reinvesting the original money several times now and that's how it was built. I'm no hot shot investor, I follow directions well. With a good spread some stocks will do great others will be laggards.

The op has experience with mutual funds, so he understands, has a long term plan. It's the right vehicle for him.

I'm not making numbers up guy you can check the thread on Thai stocks for mid and long term investors I post what I have done each week. I made mistakes and you will see then there.

I had a five year plan when I started, I will stay with my 15 K reinvest profits and hopefully end up with a fair amount of money. If the bottom drops I sale that day, I have limit losses I will except those far two stocks hit that.

I will say this if you rely on the 1% the banks will give you here you won't keep up with inflation. With that being said unless you have everything else covered, you probably can't afford the risk. Safe way to go Mutual funds.

If I lost every satang in the account I'm losing one good bike ride a month I can live with that.

There is no right or wrong answer in this, everybody has different fund available different times to do it in and different goals.

I like stocks right now because we are in a building period after a massive recession, my guess that will probably at least another seven years before we figure out a new way to destroy the economy,

That enough for me then I will buy Gold while it's cheap and ride the next ten year recession out. As sure a I'm sitting here there will be another.

I think it is important to do something whatever that might be to fit your needs. These day if you counted on Social Security you would be eating dog food. I'm fortunat4e I have two retirements, that is why it is safe for me to do the 15K a month.

I wish every one great luck

[fletchsmile]

I just thought I'd add a few stats to address a perception by some that mutual fund investments offer lame net returns in the short-medium term for relatively novice personal investors vis a vis direct share investments ... I have chosen three Thai equity funds pretty much randomly (not the top three performing funds)

K-Equity Fund. 6 month return 19.47%, 12 month return 39.04%. 1.5% management fee. 1% buy-in/sell-out fee (which I think only applies if done through agents)

ING Thai Equity Fund. 6 month return 10.63%, 12 month return 37.08%. 1.5% management fee. 1% buy-in fee

Aberdeen Siam Leaders Fund. 6 month return 20.69%, 12 month return 37.08%. 1.7% management fee. buy-in fee 0.5% and sell-out fee 0.25%

As has been stated elsewhere neither stocks nor mutual funds are necessarily good (or best) for everyone. Don't be seduced by the smooth-talking Pied Pipers of the investment world and narrow your focus too quickly. Before investing your money, first invest your time in learning a little about ALL the different investment opportunities available to you. Consider returns, but also risk, investment time-frame, the commitment of time required, and the many other factors specific to YOU.

Just to make it clear here: Each of your listed funds did underperform the index which had a good run up. Now mutual funds invest into shares (amongst other things) who pay out dividends as well and still are underperforming. Considering the index goes only sideways would most likely make the investor in mutual funds a loser not mentioning what's going to happen when the index trends down - Sitting on losses for a couple of months/years and having inflation and currency risk sucking on your funds make them less and less attractive.

So don't buy mutual funds if you have no basic idea about this type of investment regardless how many clueless people recommend them.

Would be very interested in the source of your claims on performance vs index. My own personal records as well as those of the fund houses show your claim wrong.

Both Aberdeen Siam Leaders and Ing Thai Equity currently exceed SET index over 1 year, 3 years, 5 years and since inception. The longer the time horizon the larger the outperformance of the mutual funds. I don't follow the other fund mentioned. Fund manager links to backl up my claims as below

http://www.ingfunds.co.th/EN/upload/fund/mbook-21.pdf

http://www.aberdeen-asset.com/doc.nsf/Lit/FactsheetThailandOpenABSL

[fletchsmile]

Ok Guys he picked his way and I picked mine. I'm happy and I'm sure he will be as well.

Lets face it investing is not one size fits all. I'm no hot shot investor, have 105 K in my portfolio is at 185. I did this investing 15K per month. I belong to Thaistocks an investors club and followed the model portfolio.

I put 5K a month into Aberdeen for a total of 15K back. My personal thoughts are if take the mutual out 15 years your going to do Ok. Saim rose hit on something I had thought about in indexs. Not I don't know enough to debate which is better.

I'm 63 I don't have 15 years, so stocks better at this juncture for me. I'm not worried losing everything it takes mins at your compute to sell completly out. But I'm retired I have time not everyone does and I watch it like a hawk.

If your still working and don't have the time. let the pros take care of it. If you go into stocks and can't find the right resources to do value investing. You either really need to know what your doing. Or have an experience person you can ask and avoid the pitfalls.

I have reinvesting the original money several times now and that's how it was built. I'm no hot shot investor, I follow directions well. With a good spread some stocks will do great others will be laggards.

The op has experience with mutual funds, so he understands, has a long term plan. It's the right vehicle for him.

I'm not making numbers up guy you can check the thread on Thai stocks for mid and long term investors I post what I have done each week. I made mistakes and you will see then there.

I had a five year plan when I started, I will stay with my 15 K reinvest profits and hopefully end up with a fair amount of money. If the bottom drops I sale that day, I have limit losses I will except those far two stocks hit that.

I will say this if you rely on the 1% the banks will give you here you won't keep up with inflation. With that being said unless you have everything else covered, you probably can't afford the risk. Safe way to go Mutual funds.

If I lost every satang in the account I'm losing one good bike ride a month I can live with that.

There is no right or wrong answer in this, everybody has different fund available different times to do it in and different goals.

I like stocks right now because we are in a building period after a massive recession, my guess that will probably at least another seven years before we figure out a new way to destroy the economy,

That enough for me then I will buy Gold while it's cheap and ride the next ten year recession out. As sure a I'm sitting here there will be another.

I think it is important to do something whatever that might be to fit your needs. These day if you counted on Social Security you would be eating dog food. I'm fortunat4e I have two retirements, that is why it is safe for me to do the 15K a month.

I wish every one great luck

Some good comments, particularly on knowing your own objectives.

Even the objectives change though. Several decades ago I used to really enjoy picking my own stocks, particularly in risky markets and companies. Over the years my objectives have changed for a variety of reasons:

- available time to devote

- attitude to risk

- family circumstances

- stage of life

- compliance restrictions on not being able to hold certain stocks because of the need for Chinese walls and avoidance of conflict of interest

Mutual funds are generally much easier, and even if you don't track them for a while, you know someone else is. One thing I would add though is you can research these as you do shares, albeit in slightly different ways. I use a combination of track record of fund managers and fund houses, understanding of their approach to investments such as value based, theme based, top down, bottom up among many others.

In addition you can combine this with macroeconic views: I have views on most asset classes: equities, property, fixed income, commodities, as well as currencies, countries, economies, market values and so on.

Simply put: these days I use more of a macro view and then select the mutual fund that best fits what I'm looking for to execute it. There are so many options compared to when I was a teenager, that there's no way I can be an expert on all. Hence my strategy now lies more in identifying the experts, than trying to be one myself. There's (usually) always someone who knows more than you

[phomsanuk]

Are any of these applicable to the 880000? minimum requirement for a yearly visa?

[rgs2001uk]

Are any of these applicable to the 880000? minimum requirement for a yearly visa?

In a word, no.

[ray23]

Great comment on research that is the real key no matter what you do. Warren Buffet has a interesting way of thinking of it. Think as if you were buying the entire company, not a piece of it. Seems to have worked well for him. Eventually he was buying entire companies.

I have learned how to research firms in Thailand and only trade on the SET, the key for me was Thaistocks. Paul does great research. But, that doesn't mean I don't do my own as well. It is something you really need to know how to do in stocks.One of the reasons it takes a lot more time.

I went to Aberdeen as it was recommended to me and allow you to get in at 5K (baht) a month, just wasn't what I needed. Given more time I'm sure it would do just fine.

[cocopops]

I just thought I'd add a few stats to address a perception by some that mutual fund investments offer lame net returns in the short-medium term for relatively novice personal investors vis a vis direct share investments ... I have chosen three Thai equity funds pretty much randomly (not the top three performing funds)

K-Equity Fund. 6 month return 19.47%, 12 month return 39.04%. 1.5% management fee. 1% buy-in/sell-out fee (which I think only applies if done through agents)

ING Thai Equity Fund. 6 month return 10.63%, 12 month return 37.08%. 1.5% management fee. 1% buy-in fee

Aberdeen Siam Leaders Fund. 6 month return 20.69%, 12 month return 37.08%. 1.7% management fee. buy-in fee 0.5% and sell-out fee 0.25%

As has been stated elsewhere neither stocks nor mutual funds are necessarily good (or best) for everyone. Don't be seduced by the smooth-talking Pied Pipers of the investment world and narrow your focus too quickly. Before investing your money, first invest your time in learning a little about ALL the different investment opportunities available to you. Consider returns, but also risk, investment time-frame, the commitment of time required, and the many other factors specific to YOU.

Just to make it clear here: Each of your listed funds did underperform the index which had a good run up. Now mutual funds invest into shares (amongst other things) who pay out dividends as well and still are underperforming. Considering the index goes only sideways would most likely make the investor in mutual funds a loser not mentioning what's going to happen when the index trends down - Sitting on losses for a couple of months/years and having inflation and currency risk sucking on your funds make them less and less attractive.

So don't buy mutual funds if you have no basic idea about this type of investment regardless how many clueless people recommend them.

Would be very interested in the source of your claims on performance vs index. My own personal records as well as those of the fund houses show your claim wrong.

Both Aberdeen Siam Leaders and Ing Thai Equity currently exceed SET index over 1 year, 3 years, 5 years and since inception. The longer the time horizon the larger the outperformance of the mutual funds. I don't follow the other fund mentioned. Fund manager links to backl up my claims as below

http://www.ingfunds....nd/mbook-21.pdf

http://www.aberdeen-...hailandOpenABSL

They do look like good results. Three questions:

1) Do the results in the fact sheets include the ridiculously high fees?

2) How many laggard thai-stock funds have the same companies closed down in the last 10 years? If it is more than zero, you may assume that at least part of these results are due to luck not skill.

3) Why, since the funds do not pay out dividends, have they not compared to a total-return index? In fact, where did they pull these indexes from? They look quite unlike these ones:

http://www.set.or.th/en/market/tri.html