Work Permit With No Ba Degree

[icequeen]

I have heard many stories about this: yes it's possible, no it's not possible but what I would really like is a straight answer from someone with personal experience. If there is anyone on this forum who has a work permit as a teacher but no BA degree, would you please be kind enough to send me a PM advising me what the school and I would need to do to obtain a work permit,

Thank you very, very much in advance.

[oneway2himm]

Almost all schools will not hire you as a teacher, especially without a Bachelor's Degree. Unless you go to some rural village and teach at a school there. I don't know of any schools in Bangkok would even hire without a degree. Some language centers may though. You might want to look into that. Good luck searching. Let me know if you find a job.

[Scott]

I hope you get some responses and I hope some post on the forum as well.

In particular it would be helpful to know the type of school, government, private, language/tuition school.

It would also be nice to know how long they have had a work permit. I know teachers from some years back who got work permits and they have been continuously renewed without a problem. I know that if we tried to hire them now, they would not get a work permit.

[icequeen]

Hi everyone. Thanks for your replies. Maybe I didn't explain things clearly in my first post as I tried to keep it brief. I am not looking for a job, I already have a job in a private school, what I want is to be able to get a work permit. I am studying for my degree but have at least another two years before I finish.

[aussiebebe]

Hi everyone. Thanks for your replies. Maybe I didn't explain things clearly in my first post as I tried to keep it brief. I am not looking for a job, I already have a job in a private school, what I want is to be able to get a work permit. I am studying for my degree but have at least another two years before I finish.

I've worked with lots of fantastic teachers who have no degree and they find the work opportunistically when schools are in a bind and need someone urgently; they are cheaper to employ (no visa/WP/insurance fees) and, of course, have to take care of their own visa arrangements. Never heard of them getting a WP, the schools pay cash, file no tax returns on your behalf, give no visa assistance, no social security, teacher license or health insurance unless/until you start the Work permit process.

1) In answer to your first question regarding protocol is:

Once you get your degree, you go to a Thai embasssy with a letter from your school and get your non-immigrant visa, you can then apply for a work permit.

I think you'll need a to go with someone from your school to the Labour Department with a copy of the picture page/identification page of your passport, your non-immigrant visa, entrance stamp page, copy of entry card, copy of your degree or resume or transcript, doctor's certificate stating you are in good health, 2 color, 4 by 5 cm photos, fee, and your private school will have to submit tax and legal documents. You sign and date all your docs.Once you apply for a work permit, you must not let your visa expire and must get a re-entry permit when leaving Thailand or the WP is cancelled and you need to start the process over.

2) With no BA, ask your school for guidance whether a a letter stating that your are in the process of studying for a degree would be suitable. Sorry, I've no experience of this, I'm just trying to be helpful and maybe someone else can offer more directions. The closest situation I have experience of is working at a school which hired a teacher with no degree, on the understanding that they would study for their degree while working at the school. I interpreted this to mean that the teacher would get the WP when they have the degree, not before.

[Scott]

Thanks aussiebebe for that informative post. I think now you need to get a syphilis test as well.

[troehr]

I do not understand why people keep saying you can't get a work permit without a degree. There are people all over Thailand without degrees who have a work permit. Half the people at one of the schools I work part time at don't have degrees. They all have work permits.

[icequeen]

Thanks troehr, do you have any idea how the school gets them the work permit, because my school don't think they get get me one (or can't be bothered trying) I am going to have to find all the info out and ask them to get the wp or I will have to quit.

[icequeen]

In fact, thanks to everyone who has replied

[Firelily]

Troehr - no need to get annoyed - as far as I know, it may be different in different provinces. What is impossible in Chiang Mai may be easily doable somewhere else.

[Scott]

I know several schools who have teachers who say they have work permits, but in fact they don't. They have managed to get non-immigrant B visas, but haven't been able to get work permits.

I have mentioned before that many teachers without degrees have gotten work permits some years ago and they have been continuously renewed. I think the problem is with newer teachers. In the past year or so, the regulations have been toughened up. There are different types of schools and I believe there may be different regulations concerning them.

It would appear that it's possible, but it would be nice to have some posters with first hand experience, especially if they have gotten their Work Permit in the past year or so.

[pbert]

I have been asking a similar question in the pinned thread and just found this one, good read through. I wonder if the people without a degree are mostly working without the appropriate VISA however when asked they maintain all is in order? I certainly wouldn't spread the word if working illegally and I expect this is at least getting the rumour out there.

Personally I will have a graduate’s certificate and would do a TEFL at CM Uni before applying. Unfortunately from the 2 responses in the other thread it sounds like the certificate will count for nothing without a degree.

[beano2274]

A certain agency advertising on ajarn.com will get you a work permit and visa, if you work upcountry in some horrible places for them.

It is possible, if your school knows the right people in The Ministry of Labour.

[aussiebebe]

I have been asking a similar question in the pinned thread and just found this one, good read through. I wonder if the people without a degree are mostly working without the appropriate VISA however when asked they maintain all is in order? I certainly wouldn't spread the word if working illegally and I expect this is at least getting the rumour out there.

Personally I will have a graduate's certificate and would do a TEFL at CM Uni before applying. Unfortunately from the 2 responses in the other thread it sounds like the certificate will count for nothing without a degree.

That's right; teachers without degrees take care of their own visa arrangements however they wish. Some schools prefer this as it costs them less.

Don't overlook the crucial fact that you don't need to show a work permit at a Thai embassy when you apply for a non-immigrant B visa - you simply need a letter from your school. Options for those without degrees:

1) Enrol at a Thai-language school and use a letter from there to apply for an Education visa (one border-run and three 90-day reports at immigration = 1 year).

2) If married to a Thai, show income evidence of THB40,000/month for applicant or spouse (one border-run OR no need to even leave Thailand if you use a lawyer and three 90-day reports at immigration = 1 year).

3) Frequent border-runs, particularly for those with dual nationality who can flip between passports (I've met more people who do this than you could possibly imagine!).

There are plenty of employment options for those without paperwork, it's just a matter of opportunity.

[aussiestyle1983]

I got a wp with no degree back in 06. Depends on the school and their connections. However, I almost have a BA now so if I return to LOS again 2 teach I hope I can get a WP just as easy or even easier than before

[thomo]

Know an old Canadian - about 55 - working in an EP in a government school in a large Isaan city. He only has a Diploma, but 20 years experience of teaching Accounting. He got a WP, I think the school sent a letter saying how valuable he will be, and that was it. Remember, Isaan government school is not a Bangkok private when applying for WPs etc.

He was also on 2,000b less than those with degrees (real and fake).

[Phatcharanan]

As far as Bangkok goes.........is the Nonthaburi Project still running? The agency that deals with this (they advertise on here) state that WP's will be issued even without a degree. Some tie-in with Chulalongkorn University I believe.

My info is, however, over a year old now.

[ben2talk]

As far as Bangkok goes.........is the Nonthaburi Project still running? The agency that deals with this (they advertise on here) state that WP's will be issued even without a degree. Some tie-in with Chulalongkorn University I believe.

My info is, however, over a year old now.

The Nonthaburi project IS still up and running, but it's very misleading also. Make sure you know what you're getting into before you sign up there.

I tested it out a few years back, paid a few thousand to do the intro course, and was posted at an unbelievable school (I mean - I found out where I was to be sent, which is NOT supposed to happen, before they bussed me off to Laos for a visa run.

One look at the school, it turned out to be a Temple school - the temple was clean and rich, the school obviously got virtually no funds - building and desks were at least 50 years old, no doors on classrooms and most students had no books, pencils or socks... so I walked out and found a job earning 30k paid over 12 months in a sweaty government school. Nonthaburi project is very low on the ladder - it's designed to push fresh teachers into schools that nobody else will work in. 75% of teachers are non-native and unqualified - mostly it's a haven for Filipino teachers.

They advertise a 40k salary, but that's nothing like an English definition of salary. It's paid on a daily basis - and they have a lot of downtime which (during the course of a year) they will give you a 10k retainer for the month in summer - but not over the Songkran break (i.e. you finish in February or March depending on the school - you will have at least 2 months, probably 3 months unpaid in summer).

[flying]

Just curious but........

Since it is obvious that many do in fact teach in the country schools without a degree & thus without a WP

How do they handle the visa?

Can they teach at these schools with a retirement visa or

are they just basically taking a big risk?

Is it quietly accepted & not chased down by immigration because the country schools have less to choose from?

I mean it appears that many do in fact teach at schools without a WP so is it accepted/tolerated?

Just curious

Thanks

[mizzi39]

It is true that many teachers teach legally in the sticks with WP and Non B visa. It comes down to more demand than supply.

The notion that you need a BA Degree to teach legally in Thailand is false. Please do not quote me on this, but I believe according to the MOE the requirement to teach is a degree or an "Education Certificate" which is up for interpretation.

I know a few teachers who have gotten hired (legally) in Govt. schools on a TEFL alone, and have TL waivers. I also know that the TC requires a degree in order to take the tests for the TL (i myself have taken them), so there is a contradiction.

What it comes down to is the personal relationship between the specific school and the local labor office. This is why many small village schools, both Govt. and private have a difficult time getting a person legal, even if that person meets the criteria. Many do not have any relationship with their local labor office thus it is easier for a school to hire under the table than above board.

Just curious but........

Since it is obvious that many do in fact teach in the country schools without a degree & thus without a WP

How do they handle the visa?

Can they teach at these schools with a retirement visa or

are they just basically taking a big risk?

Is it quietly accepted & not chased down by immigration because the country schools have less to choose from?

I mean it appears that many do in fact teach at schools without a WP so is it accepted/tolerated?

Just curious

Thanks

Edited April 28, 2011 by mizzi39

[Scott]

Mizzi39 is correct. People do get visas and work permits without having a degree. The spanner in the works is the Teacher's Council.

[flying]

It is true that many teachers teach legally in the sticks with WP and Non B visa. It comes down to more demand than supply.

The notion that you need a BA Degree to teach legally in Thailand is false. Please do not quote me on this, but I believe according to the MOE the requirement to teach is a degree or an "Education Certificate" which is up for interpretation.

I know a few teachers who have gotten hired (legally) in Govt. schools on a TEFL alone, and have TL waivers. I also know that the TC requires a degree in order to take the tests for the TL (i myself have taken them), so there is a contradiction.

What it comes down to is the personal relationship between the specific school and the local labor office. This is why many small village schools, both Govt. and private have a difficult time getting a person legal, even if that person meets the criteria. Many do not have any relationship with their local labor office thus it is easier for a school to hire under the table than above board.

Mizzi39 is correct. People do get visas and work permits without having a degree. The spanner in the works is the Teacher's Council.

Thanks Mizzi & Scott

Interesting

Edited April 28, 2011 by flying

[otherstuff1957]

I think that the OP was looking for a clear answer to the question. Unfortunately, in Thailand the decision-making processes of the bureaucracy is not clear and final decisions often appear to be up to the whims of the local officers.

So, the experiences of others may not always be good predictor of your subsequent experiences!

[BruceMangosteen]

. I also know that the TC requires a degree in order to take the tests for the TL (i myself have taken them), so there is a contradiction.

They only ask for the information, nothing is verified, at least at the point you pay to take the test! From what I've read, you don't have to prove it at the test center either. And in addition, very few seem to actually pass all the tests making the last hurdle of proof to the the TL unknown at least to me.

Schools hire without degrees and/or TEFL certificates and to confirm what others wrote, work permits are issued to completely uneducated people without even high school being required. It remains how well connected and know the school is.(or the agent)

[Evergreen]

. I also know that the TC requires a degree in order to take the tests for the TL (i myself have taken them), so there is a contradiction.

They only ask for the information, nothing is verified, at least at the point you pay to take the test! From what I've read, you don't have to prove it at the test center either. And in addition, very few seem to actually pass all the tests making the last hurdle of proof to the the TL unknown at least to me.

Schools hire without degrees and/or TEFL certificates and to confirm what others wrote, work permits are issued to completely uneducated people without even high school being required. It remains how well connected and know the school is.(or the agent)

Yes i agree with this as to be quite honest the answer to the original question seems to be that there is no answer really....

I've had people say that there's "absolutely NO WAY anyone can get a WP without a degree" and really getting quite animated about it.

Then on the other hand i have also saw with my own eyes one guy who had the very basic high school education, an 80 hr TEFL course completed yet had a Work Permit. He said the place he was working needed native English teachers and they took him on no problem at all. One can only assume the place he's working has the right "connections" in certain places as he's got his WP and whilst not earning a fortune (30,000 baht per m) he's happy and has no problems.

It just seems to vary from place to place and it's pot luck that if you do not have a degree that you can get employed but also get a WP.

Personally, if i was even thinking about it i'd rather not take the risk but a mate of mine said just 2 days ago to me that "most places are now scrapping the requirement for a degree for teaching English" Now, i have not saw anything official whatsoever about this but he insists he's correct and that it is because there is a shortage of English teachers all over Thailand the rules for WP's are being relaxed somewhat and the degree requirement will not be necessary soon!!!.....has anyone else heard of this as i've heard nothing whatsoever??....he did have a couple of beers right enough at the time of this discussion.... :D

Edited May 11, 2011 by Evergreen

[Scott]

There seems to be plenty of English teachers around. There seems to be a lot without degrees.

I've not seen a relaxation in the work permit situation.

It is possible to get a WP without a degree, but it's more difficult.

[BruceMangosteen]

Personally, if i was even thinking about it i'd rather not take the risk

What risk? It's up to the school. Many on "retirement" visa's have sworn under oath they have an income yet again, no one has ever to my knowledge been charged with anything when it's a lie. Follow the money. No teacher, no money.

[mizzi39]

There seems to be plenty of English teachers around. There seems to be a lot without degrees.

I've not seen a relaxation in the work permit situation.

It is possible to get a WP without a degree, but it's more difficult.

It is very difficult to get a WP minus degree in BKK and the more touristy areas of Thailand, but again it depends on the location where you are seeking employment. Many area Ed. offices require a degree or "Education Certificate" . I am still trying to figure out what constitutes an Education Certificate, but it is my understanding that most will accept a TEFL for this requirement.

Maybe a little of topic, but for those who do have a WP -immigration is requiring that you get the one year extension in your WP BEFORE they will give the one year extension on your non B.

Mizzi

[Evergreen]

Personally, if i was even thinking about it i'd rather not take the risk

What risk? It's up to the school. Many on "retirement" visa's have sworn under oath they have an income yet again, no one has ever to my knowledge been charged with anything when it's a lie. Follow the money. No teacher, no money.

What's the risk??....well, for a start i'm not talking about retirement age people doing the teaching and i've got a good few years before i get to that stage, just to make that bit clear

What i was meaning is that there are many people here who just come over on a tourist visa and end up teaching in various places on their tourist visas as some shools will take them on to save themselves time and money?...hmmm, correct me if i'm wrong but is this not slightly illegal hence there must be some sort of risk involved??? The last time i looked you had to have a Non imm visa along with a WP to work in Thailand!

If i was working i'd much rather be fully legal than going down this route...but hey ho, maybe that's just me.....

[BruceMangosteen]

What's the risk??....well, for a start i'm not talking about retirement age people doing the teaching and i've got a good few years before i get to that stage, just to make that bit clear

If i was working i'd much rather be fully legal than going down this route...but hey ho, maybe that's just me.....

I was referring to getting a Work Permit without having a degree. Sorry for the confusion. I'm not aware that's "as" illegal(if at all) as perhaps in my example, a false declaration of your income to get the retirement VISA and you never hear about people getting into trouble for lying under oath in those many, many instances.