Real Inequality In The Thai Society

[TPI]

My friends and I often discuss(via Skype) the inequalities in Thailand, in our collective opinion we have come to the conclusion that most Thai's are not doing too bad compared to some Western hemispere countries, for instance, Haiti, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania and a host of european, west indian and african countries.

A look at history will show that England took the best part of 150 years to get to the stage it is at the moment, Thailand appears to be at that stage of development, socially and industrially that is the equivilent of the "Edwardian " period in England, so lets give Thailand a chance to grow in a reasonable and sustainable manner. Who knows, it might take even less than 150 years?

[RedNIvar]

In responce to a couple of others;

there is a large middle class in Thailand, no 'hole' in the distrabution curve as claimed; just look at all the moo baans of ranging values and indeed the diversity of property available.

Also social mobility is entirely possable if peoples priorities are right. Those that study hard, work hard and save , rather than shop, spend and dream, can move up the socio economic ladder just as much as in any western country.

The problem Thailand faces is the lies being spread by the some politicians that wealth is a right achievable by pledging allegience to a patron rather than a result of hard work ie earnt, maybe not even realised by yourself but through your childrens education and future success. Nothing is instantanious appart from winning the lottery.

Sure schools in the sticks could be better and corruption needs to be addressed in the police, but fundamentaly the problem lies with individuals, famillies and how they chose to live their lives. Listen Buddha and king will get you far; listen politics of jelliousy, gossip and advertising and no good will come of it.

What you see in Bangkok is not representative of the entire country. Try leaving Bangkok/Chiangmai for the "up country" and see if you agree with your statement above.

[RedNIvar]

THe element certainly exists in all countries but it is extreme in THailand; Thailand is a wealthy country - and one of the reasons that people keep calling it (wrongly) third world, is that they see everywhere people living on the poverty line - whether it's beggars, security guards or labourers in the fields - they are in fact a symptom of a huge underclass resulting from some of the worst distribution of national wealth in S.E. asia.

Of course this massive pool of poor people helps keep the wealthy were they are and gives the foreigners a false impression of "customer service"- it's just a vast pool of people who are prepared to do incredibly menial, servile tasks simply to stay alive.

Do you really think the sex trade would appeal if the differentiation between a farm girl's life in Issan and the money she an ear in places like Bangkok and Pattaya wasn't so great?

The wealthy elite also control the media and the ruling elements, in principal the army and these are used to maintain their privileged position.

I've always wondered how Thailand ranked compared to other countries in terms of income inequality and decided to do a bit of googling, suspecting the issue was being somewhat exaggerated. I came up with this https://www.cia.gov/...r/2172rank.html

According to this objective measure of inequality, Thailand is not particularly high on the scale. It is apparently more equal than many in the region such as Cambodia, Philippines, and surprisingly Malaysia and Singapore. Not surprisingly it is more equal than the USA. It is more unequal than its "communist" (near) neighbours Vietnam, Laos and China.

I understand the desire to complain about the so-called "elites" exploiting the poor in Thailand and they have undoubtedly done so, as have their counterparts in most other countries. But the facts seem to say that they have not been particularly egregious in doing so compared to elsewhere in the region or internationally despite all the invective being hurled around recently.

Rational and non-insulting responses are appreciated.

The Gini Index measures the area under the curve, and is good at looking at the absolute average. However it does not account for a lopsided curve or income gaps. Someone mentioned earlier, looking at the histogram will give us a better idea of the situation. Comparing the 1 sigma of the distribution will give us comparison of the income gap. I am pretty sure that the distribution will not be a bell curve, but bimodal. Again this is my opinion, tried looking for data to help backup my statement. Could not find any data to support or disprove my hypothesis.

[JohanV]

Off topic but....

"Just think of the fact that basically everything we surround us with today in the modern society was invented and developed by stubborn individuals,many times seen as lunatics, fools and odd outsiders before it came to public use.

For example; the light tube, air condition, batteries, telephone, aircraft, cars, radio, penicillin and much much more.." this is demonstrably wrong!

Deeral:

As I see your postings here generally makes a lot of sense I'm a bit confused by your above statement..

What is "demonstrably wrong" with my statement that the inventors and developers behind these things were stubborn, individualistic persons who

had to fight quite hard at times to get people to believe in their work. ? Some of them dying before they even get any credits..

Light tube ( fluorescence ) - Faraday, Maxwell and Tesla amongst others

Air condition - John Gorrie ( in search for a Malaria cure )

Batteries - Alessandro Volta

Telephone - Alexander Graham Bell and LM Ericsson

Aircraft - the Wright brothers

Cars - da Vinci ( cogwheels ), Volta ( spark plugs ) etc. and of course Daimler and Ford

Radio - Edison, Tesla and Marconi amongst others

Penicillin - Ernest Duchesne

Please demonstrate the wrongs.

I'll be happy to be enlightened by you if I have missed something here.

Cheers

Edited July 29, 2010 by JohanV

[jayjay0]

THe element certainly exists in all countries but it is extreme in THailand; Thailand is a wealthy country - and one of the reasons that people keep calling it (wrongly) third world, is that they see everywhere people living on the poverty line - whether it's beggars, security guards or labourers in the fields - they are in fact a symptom of a huge underclass resulting from some of the worst distribution of national wealth in S.E. asia.

Of course this massive pool of poor people helps keep the wealthy were they are and gives the foreigners a false impression of "customer service"- it's just a vast pool of people who are prepared to do incredibly menial, servile tasks simply to stay alive.

Do you really think the sex trade would appeal if the differentiation between a farm girl's life in Issan and the money she an ear in places like Bangkok and Pattaya wasn't so great?

The wealthy elite also control the media and the ruling elements, in principal the army and these are used to maintain their privileged position.

I've always wondered how Thailand ranked compared to other countries in terms of income inequality and decided to do a bit of googling, suspecting the issue was being somewhat exaggerated. I came up with this https://www.cia.gov/...r/2172rank.html

According to this objective measure of inequality, Thailand is not particularly high on the scale. It is apparently more equal than many in the region such as Cambodia, Philippines, and surprisingly Malaysia and Singapore. Not surprisingly it is more equal than the USA. It is more unequal than its "communist" (near) neighbours Vietnam, Laos and China.

I understand the desire to complain about the so-called "elites" exploiting the poor in Thailand and they have undoubtedly done so, as have their counterparts in most other countries. But the facts seem to say that they have not been particularly egregious in doing so compared to elsewhere in the region or internationally despite all the invective being hurled around recently.

Rational and non-insulting responses are appreciated.

Well it does make Thailand look better than a lot of the posters here would have one believe.

But The time line disparity casts a fair amount of doubt on how it relates to the Thailand of 2010. In my opinion.

I still believe it is not as bad as some would have us believe.

Have you ever wondered what Thailand would be like if people would include in there dictating be proud of what you do and what you have. Thinking and a attitude like that would lead to a happier populace not necessarily richer but a land of people who can judge themselves by there own actions not what some one else has or does. Or for that matter some one else tells them.

Just a thought. Not a common belief but a alternate to all the negativity you here about today.

It is the kind of thinking that would drive the government to make better schools and hospitals for those who are lacking them now and those who are lacking them can still have pride.

[JohanV]

Have you ever wondered what Thailand would be like if people would include in there dictating be proud of what you do and what you have. Thinking and a attitude like that would lead to a happier populace not necessarily richer but a land of people who can judge themselves by there own actions not what some one else has or does. Or for that matter some one else tells them.

Just a thought. Not a common belief but a alternate to all the negativity you here about today.

It is the kind of thinking that would drive the government to make better schools and hospitals for those who are lacking them now and those who are lacking them can still have pride.

Well said.

In my opinion you are spot on there. I tried to say the same thing but you put it far better.

[garyk]

I thought all politicians were the same all over the world. Politics is where the money is. Inside info is just one of the many percks. Its like bribing the boxer or any sports to win or loose. Then you know where to put your money before it happens.

Edited July 29, 2010 by garyk

[justSumGai]

Many countries have even wider gaps between rich and poor, USA is a good example. You really don't want a totally flat country, that is impossible and will only result in misery.

Well, I don't think the actual gap size is a good measurement, rather the distribution curve.

In the US there's a middle class, here there's a "hole" in the middle of the curve.

This gap is a big hinderance for any "poor" person to move upwards. No "American Dream" here, really..

To compare Thailand with the US and conclude that US is poorer is not only absurd, but downright stupid IMHO.

Well, there is indeed SEVERE inequality in American society. The middle class has shrunk, not expanded, and over the last decades the real spending power of the middle class has been trashed. Remember when a family only needed one earner? Also, mobility. Western Europeans now have superior chances of moving up in classes than Americans. Also, the gap between rich and poor in the US is the most extreme in the world. Also, the poor in the US are demonized and shamed. They are told something is wrong with them. It is in many ways a crime to be poor in America. At least if you are poor in a place like rural Thailand, you are just a poor Thai, not a violation of national propaganda that everyone can be rich if they work hard enough. Most Americans are as propagandized about their real condition as North Koreans. Maybe the US needs a red shirt movement?

I could not agree MORE. Grew up in the 50s and 60s. A guy delivering milk could raise a family with wife staying home. Now both work and still can't hardly keep up. The kids grow up being hammered on to buy buy buy, money is status and everything.

I have often thought being poor here is virtually a crime. A land where he who consumes more is BETTER. I tell ppl I have always lived on 7k or less and they look at me like I'm crazy. Something wrong with me.

I love how Thais I have met and seen seem to be so dam_n happy even with "nothing". Something to be learned for many American$, I think.

[edensedge]

I would say there is another underlying problem that needs to be solved before it is even possible to discuss wealth redistribution...

namely the simple fact that it is utterly useless to spread wealth to people totally unable to handle it.

- before you start ranting - I am NOT saying that anyone is stupid or that the poor are useless.. NO,

I am saying that true wealth is created by ideas, entrepreneurs, and people who can build structures from means of current wealth to assure future wealth. And, as long as people here are simply trying to - at best - become "the perfect employee" instead of creating something new, there isn't much more they can do with the money than go shopping with them.. ..which will only transfer the doe right back to the multinational companies anyway..

The people of Thailand don't need "shopping power", they need a new culture that values individual thinking, new ideas, inventions and audacity.

Only to people possessing those properties has a transfer of wealth any lasting effect.

So, perhaps changing the mindset of the young generation, education etc. prior to redistributing wealth would do the trick ??

Just my five cents..

Yes! This 'five cents' is priceless. Such creativity exists in the Thai people. The structures of education, laws, and programs keep the Thai focusd in limited ways. True wealth creation, rather than holding on to what one can is the shift that is needed. Thanks for your ideas, JohanV

[somtampet]

Athough Thais say they love each other and the nation they in reality don't give a fig. They only care about number one and everyone else can starve.

Exactly the same as Bangkok Farangs,who seem to enjoy the company of these horrible thais.I am amazed anybody would want to marry into this disgusting hi-so way,unless the cap fits.

Many farangs still act like thais,sneeking off to massage/brothel places,and there are enough weekenders coming to Pattaya for GOLF,OOPS I LIE

[wintermute]

I've always wondered how Thailand ranked compared to other countries in terms of income inequality and decided to do a bit of googling, suspecting the issue was being somewhat exaggerated. I came up with this https://www.cia.gov/...r/2172rank.html

According to this objective measure of inequality, Thailand is not particularly high on the scale. It is apparently more equal than many in the region such as Cambodia, Philippines, and surprisingly Malaysia and Singapore. Not surprisingly it is more equal than the USA. It is more unequal than its "communist" (near) neighbours Vietnam, Laos and China.

This doesn't mean very much when the Thai middle class is a tiny sliver of the population with the poor making up the majority and a few super rich families (less than 5%) controlling all natural resources, real estate, and corporate enterprise. The index doesn't really take into account the struggling middle class either.

The U.S. also has the most billionaires in the world but at least the majority are still middle class even though the gap between rich and poor is billions of dollars in difference.

That index is very deceptive IMO.

[JohanV]

Many farangs still act like thais,sneeking off to massage/brothel places,and there are enough weekenders coming to Pattaya for GOLF,OOPS I LIE

No, you don't lie.

You just simply extend the definition of "golf" to include other types of holes and greens,

and - as a new element of the game - putting the club in the hole rather than the ball..

[Deeral]

Off topic but....

"Just think of the fact that basically everything we surround us with today in the modern society was invented and developed by stubborn individuals,many times seen as lunatics, fools and odd outsiders before it came to public use.

For example; the light tube, air condition, batteries, telephone, aircraft, cars, radio, penicillin and much much more.." this is demonstrably wrong!

Deeral:

As I see your postings here generally makes a lot of sense I'm a bit confused by your above statement..

What is "demonstrably wrong" with my statement that the inventors and developers behind these things were stubborn, individualistic persons who

had to fight quite hard at times to get people to believe in their work. ? Some of them dying before they even get any credits..

Light tube ( fluorescence ) - Faraday, Maxwell and Tesla amongst others

Air condition - John Gorrie ( in search for a Malaria cure )

Batteries - Alessandro Volta

Telephone - Alexander Graham Bell and LM Ericsson

Aircraft - the Wright brothers

Cars - da Vinci ( cogwheels ), Volta ( spark plugs ) etc. and of course Daimler and Ford

Radio - Edison, Tesla and Marconi amongst others

Penicillin - Ernest Duchesne

Please demonstrate the wrongs.

I'll be happy to be enlightened by you if I have missed something here.

Cheers

this kind of history is alright for 13/14 year old schoolboys, but if you are trying to make some serious point about the issues above from a historical perspective you need to review your history and most of all your historiography.

If you seriously think these people suddenly got the idea from nowhere in a social vacuum like switching on the proverbial lightbulb - you are seriously mistaken - and endowing them with certain personality traits will not stand up at all with even a cursory glance at the biographies of any of them.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Deeral

[Deeral]

My friends and I often discuss(via Skype) the inequalities in Thailand, in our collective opinion we have come to the conclusion that most Thai's are not doing too bad compared to some Western hemispere countries, for instance, Haiti, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania and a host of european, west indian and african countries.

A look at history will show that England took the best part of 150 years to get to the stage it is at the moment, Thailand appears to be at that stage of development, socially and industrially that is the equivilent of the "Edwardian " period in England, so lets give Thailand a chance to grow in a reasonable and sustainable manner. Who knows, it might take even less than 150 years?

It really isn't a perception of how well they are doing, it is about the inequality of the distribution of wealth.

before you make any assertions about that get some research on the figures relating to that.

....and trying to draw historical parallels assuming that countries developments are linear and it parallel will lead you to mkae some highly erroneous conclusions - do some research into the historiography of that before you make any pronouncements on that side.

[Deeral]

"The top 20% own 69% of the country's assets while the bottom 20% own only1%.-42% of bank savings money comes from only 70,000 bank accountsholding more than 10 million baht. They make up only 0.09% of allbank accounts in the country. In other words, less than 1% of thepeople own nearly half of the country's savings.

-Among the farming families, nearly 20% of them are landless, or about811,871 families, while 1-1.5 million farming families are tenants orstruggling with insufficient land.

-10% of land owners own more than 100 rai each, while the rest 90% ownone rai or less.

-On income distribution, the top 20% enjoy more than 50% of the grossdomestic product while the bottom 20% only 4%.

http://www.bangkokpo...tistics?blog=64

This article of November 2009 coincidentally also predicted more trouble and violence to follow..........

Edited July 31, 2010 by Deeral

[wayfarer108]

"One must bear in mind that the last riots in Bangkok were not planned and run by the have nots. The have nots were merely used as tools by a certain portion of the haves to further enrich themselves."

Doesn't matter who "organised" it the fact that they were have nots available who were disenchanted enough to get involved is the point about a lop-sided society

You make the rather dubious presumption that the particpants were predominantly "have-nots." In fact, in my observation (I live in the neighbourhood that was occupied) most were not have-nots in any sense of how that term is usually understood. The truly poor did not have the money to travel here. Many were hired, and many were bussed in. By the end of the nearly three-month occupation, many of the 'sitters' were rented from the Klong Toey slums. The main participants buzzed the area day and night in relatively new cars, trucks and motorcycles.

There is a myth that the red movment somehow 'mobilised the masses' but that notion flies in the face of the fact that there were no 'masses.' Even on its biggest days the demos were rather small compared to kinds of serious 'people power' demos in other countries.

The riots were not spontaneous demonstrations of frustration but rather planned events with planned targets, led by rogue military, ex-military and ex-People's Liberation Army of Thailand cadres.

That is not to deny the wealth gap in Thailand. It is a real problem that needs to be addressed urgently. But I think most Thais deal with the inequality differently. Some have taken advantage of the situation to try to create an atmosphere of violence for political gain rather than for economic equality.

steveromagnino said it best, above.

Edited July 31, 2010 by wayfarer108

[Deeral]

"One must bear in mind that the last riots in Bangkok were not planned and run by the have nots. The have nots were merely used as tools by a certain portion of the haves to further enrich themselves."

Doesn't matter who "organised" it the fact that they were have nots available who were disenchanted enough to get involved is the point about a lop-sided society

You make the rather dubious presumption that the particpants were predominantly "have-nots." In fact, in my observation (I live in the neighbourhood that was occupied) most were not have-nots in any sense of how that term is usually understood. The truly poor did not have the money to travel here. Many were hired, and many were bussed in. By the end of the nearly three-month occupation, many of the 'sitters' were rented from the Klong Toey slums. The main participants buzzed the area day and night in relatively new cars, trucks and motorcycles.

There is a myth that the red movment somehow 'mobilised the masses' but that notion flies in the face of the fact that there were no 'masses.' Even on its biggest days the demos were rather small compared to kinds of serious 'people power' demos in other countries.

The riots were not spontaneous demonstrations of frustration but rather planned events with planned targets, led by rogue military, ex-military and ex-People's Liberation Army of Thailand cadres.

That is not to deny the wealth gap in Thailand. It is a real problem that needs to be addressed urgently. But I think most Thais deal with the inequality differently. Some have taken advantage of the situation to try to create an atmosphere of violence for political gain rather than for economic equality.

steveromagnino said it best, above.

"You make the rather dubious presumption that the particpants were predominantly "have-nots." - no i don't - I'm implying that the inequality of wealth distribution is leading to a situation where civil unrest and authoritarian govt. are almost inevitable.

I think you are being over simplistic in your view of Thai society - and making a lot of conclusions that are in fact non-seqiturs.

taking just one event in isolation and making a sweeping conclusion from it - e.g. the make-up or organisation of the unrest in Bkk - is not taking a look at the whole picture - so whether or not I would agree with your interpretation of the immediate reasons or who organised or took part in the demos, it is really only tangential to the central argument.

[JohanV]

If you seriously think these people suddenly got the idea from nowhere in a social vacuum like switching on the proverbial lightbulb - you are seriously mistaken - and endowing them with certain personality traits will not stand up at all with even a cursory glance at the biographies of any of them.

Khun Deeral.

Do you have a problem to understand written text ??

Here I am talking about the need to build a culture that enables such personalities to emerge from the "poor" layers of Thai society.

And you respond by assuming I am talking about individuals emerging out of "nowhere"..

Look up the word "culture" in a dictionary.

Then, look up the word "create", alternatively the world "build"

Then - if you are able to - put the two together = "create/build (a) culture"

Then.. take a week or so to try to understand what that means. It is absolutely not the same as a "social vacuum", trust me

Regarding the biographies of those people I guess you are saying that none of them were stubborn, that they did not have to convince anyone

of their ideas, that they never were regarded as "odd".. ???

Well, Ernest Duchesne was refused by the French Academy of Science on his discovery of Penicillin, Da Vinci had to smuggle in corpses by night

risking serious trouble with the church/law, Tesla was seen as something of a "lunatic" by many, Edison had to work very hard to convince investors,

Volta was also seen with very dubious eyes by the church, John Gorrie never got any credits at all before he died etc. etc.

If these people hadn't been stubborn individualists but instead had adapted to a "Gaeng Chai" / "I don't want to make any problems" attitude of classical

Thai peasant tradition and put "obedience" and "not asking any questions" before their curiosity they hadn't gotten very far, and no wealth had been created from their work. How in heavens name can you dispute that ?? And why would anyone want to ??

BTW, you didn't demonstate that I was wrong as you said you could, did you ?

To accuse me of thinking like a 14-year old doesn't demonstrate anything except a bad attitude on your side IMHO.

Edited July 31, 2010 by JohanV

[RickBradford]

From the List of countries by income equality , it seems the best way to reduce 'inequality' is with a statist high-tax high-welfare system, so I wonder how valuable a measurement that is by itself. Some measure of social mobility might also be useful to consider.

As for the list of inventions made by people from different countries, this is an extension of the advice given out to US soldiers over American Forces Radio:

"Electricity was invented by an Italian; the telephone was invented in Scotland; the inventor of writing paper was Chinese. Remember that the next time you tell an ethnic joke."

[JohanV]

"Electricity was invented by an Italian; the telephone was invented in Scotland; the inventor of writing paper was Chinese. Remember that the next time you tell an ethnic joke."

Quite a good piece of advice, really.

Let's hope there will be a day when a Thai invention is mentioned in a similar quote..

[Deeral]

If you seriously think these people suddenly got the idea from nowhere in a social vacuum like switching on the proverbial lightbulb - you are seriously mistaken - and endowing them with certain personality traits will not stand up at all with even a cursory glance at the biographies of any of them.

Khun Deeral.

Do you have a problem to understand written text ??

Here I am talking about the need to build a culture that enables such personalities to emerge from the "poor" layers of Thai society.

And you respond by assuming I am talking about individuals emerging out of "nowhere"..

Look up the word "culture" in a dictionary.

Then, look up the word "create", alternatively the world "build"

Then - if you are able to - put the two together = "create/build (a) culture"

Then.. take a week or so to try to understand what that means. It is absolutely not the same as a "social vacuum", trust me

Regarding the biographies of those people I guess you are saying that none of them were stubborn, that they did not have to convince anyone

of their ideas, that they never were regarded as "odd".. ???

Well, Ernest Duchesne was refused by the French Academy of Science on his discovery of Penicillin, Da Vinci had to smuggle in corpses by night

risking serious trouble with the church/law, Tesla was seen as something of a "lunatic" by many, Edison had to work very hard to convince investors,

Volta was also seen with very dubious eyes by the church, John Gorrie never got any credits at all before he died etc. etc.

If these people hadn't been stubborn individualists but instead had adapted to a "Gaeng Chai" / "I don't want to make any problems" attitude of classical

Thai peasant tradition and put "obedience" and "not asking any questions" before their curiosity they hadn't gotten very far, and no wealth had been created from their work. How in heavens name can you dispute that ?? And why would anyone want to ??

BTW, you didn't demonstate that I was wrong as you said you could, did you ?

To accuse me of thinking like a 14-year old doesn't demonstrate anything except a bad attitude on your side IMHO.

Great stories, but nothing to do with real history

Edited July 31, 2010 by Deeral

[mark45y]

"Electricity was invented by an Italian; the telephone was invented in Scotland; the inventor of writing paper was Chinese. Remember that the next time you tell an ethnic joke."

Quite a good piece of advice, really.

Let's hope there will be a day when a Thai invention is mentioned in a similar quote..

Albert Wood an English guy from Kent. One of the inventors of Viagra. I always wondered why they didn't ask him to help name the drug. Thailand really should be paying him a royalty. Sort of a Wood tax. As the world population ages Woods invention may be the savior of Thailand. It will take the income that would have gone for inheritance and inheritance tax to England and America and other western countries and transfer it to Issan. Thailand's largest renewable asset being put to work. The only problem is making sure the money does not get into the hands of the drug dealers and casinos. Does not seem like a very big problem to me. Let's see is there a PM who has the courage to take on the drug dealers on the horizon?

[JohanV]

Great stories, but nothing to do with real history

No, not anymore.

Now it seems to be more about wasting time arguing with a brainless troll

Which, I won't do.

Just PM me when "The REAL history of ideas, vol I" by "Khun Deeral the Mighty Truthsayer" is published.

I'm looking forward to revise my entire knowledge about creative processes.

Jeeez

[Jimi007]

"The top 20% own 69% of the country's assets while the bottom 20% own only1%.-42% of bank savings money comes from only 70,000 bank accountsholding more than 10 million baht. They make up only 0.09% of allbank accounts in the country. In other words, less than 1% of thepeople own nearly half of the country's savings.

-Among the farming families, nearly 20% of them are landless, or about811,871 families, while 1-1.5 million farming families are tenants orstruggling with insufficient land.

-10% of land owners own more than 100 rai each, while the rest 90% ownone rai or less.

-On income distribution, the top 20% enjoy more than 50% of the grossdomestic product while the bottom 20% only 4%.

http://www.bangkokpo...tistics?blog=64

This article of November 2009 coincidentally also predicted more trouble and violence to follow..........

You quote a blog, that is an opinion article, with no source to back up the "facts" stated in the article. But that point aside; there are inequalities in all societies. So, what? It has been and will always be that way. The great social experiments of the communist socialistic countries haven't given equality to all, now have they? They seemed to have adopted capitalism in a more perverted way than the west. Look at what has happened in both China and Russia. Is there no social unrest and inequality there? Thailand is a capitalistic society as well, so of course there are the wealthy and poor, just as every other nation... How can there be any equality with an educational system that favors the rich. If you can't pay to learn at the best schools, you can't play on an equal level... As they say in the USA; "there's no free lunch." Someone has to pay.

[somtampet]

Many farangs still act like thais,sneeking off to massage/brothel places,and there are enough weekenders coming to Pattaya for GOLF,OOPS I LIE

No, you don't lie.

You just simply extend the definition of "golf" to include other types of holes and greens,

and - as a new element of the game - putting the club in the hole rather than the ball..

These whiter than white Bangkok guys who come on here and use terrible words against Issan women,and bulling up the whitey hi-so freaks,and then have the cheek to come over to Pattaya and have sex with them.

[jayjay0]

My friends and I often discuss(via Skype) the inequalities in Thailand, in our collective opinion we have come to the conclusion that most Thai's are not doing too bad compared to some Western hemispere countries, for instance, Haiti, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania and a host of european, west indian and african countries.

A look at history will show that England took the best part of 150 years to get to the stage it is at the moment, Thailand appears to be at that stage of development, socially and industrially that is the equivilent of the "Edwardian " period in England, so lets give Thailand a chance to grow in a reasonable and sustainable manner. Who knows, it might take even less than 150 years?

It really isn't a perception of how well they are doing, it is about the inequality of the distribution of wealth.

before you make any assertions about that get some research on the figures relating to that.

....and trying to draw historical parallels assuming that countries developments are linear and it parallel will lead you to mkae some highly erroneous conclusions - do some research into the historiography of that before you make any pronouncements on that side.

I have to disagree the inequality is more than the distribution of wealth. It is about peoples rites. What ever made you think if every one had the same amount of money we would have equality? That is a pipe dream human nature would never allow it.

[JohanV]

Albert Wood an English guy from Kent. One of the inventors of Viagra. I always wondered why they didn't ask him to help name the drug.

Brilliant ! Thanks for that !

[jayjay0]

Many countries have even wider gaps between rich and poor, USA is a good example. You really don't want a totally flat country, that is impossible and will only result in misery.

Well, I don't think the actual gap size is a good measurement, rather the distribution curve.

In the US there's a middle class, here there's a "hole" in the middle of the curve.

This gap is a big hinderance for any "poor" person to move upwards. No "American Dream" here, really..

To compare Thailand with the US and conclude that US is poorer is not only absurd, but downright stupid IMHO.

Well, there is indeed SEVERE inequality in American society. The middle class has shrunk, not expanded, and over the last decades the real spending power of the middle class has been trashed. Remember when a family only needed one earner? Also, mobility. Western Europeans now have superior chances of moving up in classes than Americans. Also, the gap between rich and poor in the US is the most extreme in the world. Also, the poor in the US are demonized and shamed. They are told something is wrong with them. It is in many ways a crime to be poor in America. At least if you are poor in a place like rural Thailand, you are just a poor Thai, not a violation of national propaganda that everyone can be rich if they work hard enough. Most Americans are as propagandized about their real condition as North Koreans. Maybe the US needs a red shirt movement?

I could not agree MORE. Grew up in the 50s and 60s. A guy delivering milk could raise a family with wife staying home. Now both work and still can't hardly keep up. The kids grow up being hammered on to buy buy buy, money is status and everything.

I have often thought being poor here is virtually a crime. A land where he who consumes more is BETTER. I tell ppl I have always lived on 7k or less and they look at me like I'm crazy. Something wrong with me.

I love how Thais I have met and seen seem to be so dam_n happy even with "nothing". Something to be learned for many American$, I think.

Lets hope the red shirts don't get to them to tell them they are wrong. They should not be happy.

[Deeral]

"I have to disagree the inequality is more than the distribution of wealth. It is about peoples rites. What ever made you think if every one had the same amount of money we would have equality? That is a pipe dream human nature would never allow it. "

no! wealth distribution and money are NIOT the same thing - and I assume you mean "rights" not "rites"?

[Deeral]

"The top 20% own 69% of the country's assets while the bottom 20% own only1%.-42% of bank savings money comes from only 70,000 bank accountsholding more than 10 million baht. They make up only 0.09% of allbank accounts in the country. In other words, less than 1% of thepeople own nearly half of the country's savings.

-Among the farming families, nearly 20% of them are landless, or about811,871 families, while 1-1.5 million farming families are tenants orstruggling with insufficient land.

-10% of land owners own more than 100 rai each, while the rest 90% ownone rai or less.

-On income distribution, the top 20% enjoy more than 50% of the grossdomestic product while the bottom 20% only 4%.

http://www.bangkokpo...tistics?blog=64

This article of November 2009 coincidentally also predicted more trouble and violence to follow..........

You quote a blog, that is an opinion article, with no source to back up the "facts" stated in the article. But that point aside; there are inequalities in all societies. So, what? It has been and will always be that way. The great social experiments of the communist socialistic countries haven't given equality to all, now have they? They seemed to have adopted capitalism in a more perverted way than the west. Look at what has happened in both China and Russia. Is there no social unrest and inequality there? Thailand is a capitalistic society as well, so of course there are the wealthy and poor, just as every other nation... How can there be any equality with an educational system that favors the rich. If you can't pay to learn at the best schools, you can't play on an equal level... As they say in the USA; "there's no free lunch." Someone has to pay.

OK - so the Bangkok post is now a blog and Pasuk Phongpaichit is not worth listening to?