China Will Invest In Thai High-Speed Train, Better Rail Links

[Pacificperson]

I think that the long term plan is to connect the high speed rail of China through Vietnam, Laos, Thailand and Malaysia to Singapore. The critical connection is through the mountains of Vietnam and Laos. There is a route through Laos from Nong Khai to Vinh on the Vietnam coastal plane that would likely be the best route (least mountains and shortest distance) from Hanoi to Singapore. A 20 year plan? Not if the Chinese government wants it badly, it could be much quicker.

[rubl]

The Chinese high speed network is being built to a strict schedule using unskilled peasant labour. Just a matter of time before there's a disaster.

Yet another biased opinion. China can put men in space, build and operate nuclear power plants (in conjunction with the French) - there's been one only about 30 kilometers from Kong Kong in Daya Bay for more than 15 years - and modernise their cities in a fraction of time it took the west. Just look at Shanghai today and compare it with 20 years ago! It's more exciting now than Hong Kong.

The fact is that China has its sights set not years ahead, but decades ahead. It will be the world's next superpower, no question!

China can be xenophobic, but they are not below learning from the outside world and applying in an improved manner. Way to go of course. Only democratic improvements are shunt somewhat

[tw25rw]

The Chinese high speed network is being built to a strict schedule using unskilled peasant labour. Just a matter of time before there's a disaster.

Yet another biased opinion. China can put men in space, build and operate nuclear power plants (in conjunction with the French) - there's been one only about 30 kilometers from Kong Kong in Daya Bay for more than 15 years - and modernise their cities in a fraction of time it took the west. Just look at Shanghai today and compare it with 20 years ago! It's more exciting now than Hong Kong.

The fact is that China has its sights set not years ahead, but decades ahead. It will be the world's next superpower, no question!

No, it's a knowledgeable and informed opinion. I'm not guessing, though the prediction of an accident is obviously supposition.

[tw25rw]

The Chinese high speed network is being built to a strict schedule using unskilled peasant labour. Just a matter of time before there's a disaster.

Train accidents happen all the time, world wide, and in China too. It's not the unskilled workers to be blamed but the engineering or human errors, causing the accidents.

In China, it will be the officials charged with completing the projects on time who persist in driving the labourers to work faster whilst ignoring the input of the skilled engineers brought in to provide technical knowledge.

[LaoPo]

My only question is why this annoncement... there has long been a plan to connect Singapore to Shanghai by rail... I worked in Malaysia on the Rawang to Ipoh section, and at the same time, the next section was at pre-design phase.. I guess a second line to Pattaya and the South-East isn't part of the grand plan, and I don't honestly see how it will ever be ecconomically viable... This is where my scepticism gland comes in... How much debt will China give to Thailand on terms no other country would??? For how long, will Thailand sell their revenue to China, on terms no western government would accept???

I disagree for the following reason:

The development for this high speed railway, from the Nong Khai province through Laos into China and the other way around, going south from Nong Khai to the eastern sea border in Thailand is a very important economical lifeline for all three countries.

If one knows a little about the enormous production facilities in Western China like Chengdu and Chongqing (more than 30 million people) this rail road is cutting the travel and time distance for large amounts of containers which would otherwise have to travel via Guangdong province and/or Hong Kong.

It will shorten the travel time to Europe with many days.

Of course no other country would accept the deal, China is offering, since it's not -directly- in the interest of one single country or company in the West, but it is for Thailand, China and to a lesser extent, for Laos.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

The Chinese high speed network is being built to a strict schedule using unskilled peasant labour. Just a matter of time before there's a disaster.

Train accidents happen all the time, world wide, and in China too. It's not the unskilled workers to be blamed but the engineering or human errors, causing the accidents.

In China, it will be the officials charged with completing the projects on time who persist in driving the labourers to work faster whilst ignoring the input of the skilled engineers brought in to provide technical knowledge.

Do you speak Chinese ? It's utter nonsense what you write.

As if "officials" would have more to say in large complicated infrastructures like tunnels, railroads and bridges rather than the large corporations and their -highly educated - engineers and supervisors building and creating those structures.

You're talking 3 decades ago where "officials" working for the government had everything to say and were walking around with their (virtual) whips.

These large corporations, China Railway Construction Comp and China Railway Group for instance, with more than 200.000 workers are working for/with government contracts and, knowing China for more than 30 years, there's no (local) "official" who would dare to surpass the know how of engineers and supervisors of such large companies.

These 2 companies alone (and there are more) belong to the largest companies in the WORLD by Fortune's standards on the Global 500 list. They are multi Billion $ companies and there are very few, if any, companies who do what they do.

And, to say that "officials" are ignoring engineers in order to complete certain projects in time is something sucked out of your thumb.

LaoPo

[scorecard]

I imagine that this story is up to the usual high standards that we've come to expect from Thai journalists. The link to Rayong, will probably pass through Pattaya and end at Maptoput, which is the route followed by the current rail tracks. The rail to Laos will probably follow the Nong Khai route, unless it goes to Suwannakhet instead.

"pass through Pattaya". I guess so, but does that mean the old Pattaya station in the sticks, with passengers left to the song tow mafia, which would mean that the upgrade is only half an upgrade? Or will they do the sensible thing / do it properly and take the line into Pattaya city?

[ARGUSEYE]

The most daunting part of this story is building a high-speed rail line -- or any rail line -- through Laos. Incredibly mountainous country. Would be great for Laos and I'd love to ride it.

I agree with chaoyang, - the Lao section of the "High Speed Rail" link would be daunting, - - only followed by the Yunnan section, - - much more challenging. That landscape there is next to impossible to cross by "High Speed Rail".

I know the Chinese can do it if they set their focus on it .... - - Look at that stupid useless Great Wall from 2000 Years ago... But jesus, there is more urgent things to do than boring holes into Lao and Yunnan mountains !!!

And it certainly would NOT be "great for Laos", Chaoyang!

[tw25rw]

The Chinese high speed network is being built to a strict schedule using unskilled peasant labour. Just a matter of time before there's a disaster.

Train accidents happen all the time, world wide, and in China too. It's not the unskilled workers to be blamed but the engineering or human errors, causing the accidents.

In China, it will be the officials charged with completing the projects on time who persist in driving the labourers to work faster whilst ignoring the input of the skilled engineers brought in to provide technical knowledge.

Do you speak Chinese ? It's utter nonsense what you write.

As if "officials" would have more to say in large complicated infrastructures like tunnels, railroads and bridges rather than the large corporations and their -highly educated - engineers and supervisors building and creating those structures.

You're talking 3 decades ago where "officials" working for the government had everything to say and were walking around with their (virtual) whips.

These large corporations, China Railway Construction Comp and China Railway Group for instance, with more than 200.000 workers are working for/with government contracts and, knowing China for more than 30 years, there's no (local) "official" who would dare to surpass the know how of engineers and supervisors of such large companies.

These 2 companies alone (and there are more) belong to the largest companies in the WORLD by Fortune's standards on the Global 500 list. They are multi Billion $ companies and there are very few, if any, companies who do what they do.

And, to say that "officials" are ignoring engineers in order to complete certain projects in time is something sucked out of your thumb.

LaoPo

Unlike you, I'm not guessing.

[LaoPo]

Unlike you, I'm not guessing.

Your answers are getting shorter and shorter since you're not able to come up with facts.

If you have "knowledgeable and informed opinion" as you wrote I'm sure you don't object explaining your knowledge and informed opinion.

But, I'm afraid you won't.

Lots of blah-blah but no facts and explanations.

LaoPo

[chaoyang]

And it certainly would NOT be "great for Laos", Chaoyang!

Unless you are the Lao living in desperate poverty.

I traveled through Laos several times and was shocked at the paltry food available. And also how expensive everything was relative to the economy. Things are more expensive in Laos than they are in Thailand, largely due to the enormous effort needed to get goods anywhere.

Laos -- landlocked, mountainous, terribly poor. A rail link would help enormously.

But then, it wouldn't remain quite as quaint for outsiders to visit, I suppose. Really terrible how these poor countries just don't want to remain undeveloped isn't it? What's a backpacker to do?

[LaoPo]

China's new industrial revolution

China will soon have more high-speed railway tracks than the rest of the world put together

In its race to provide future growth, the speed at which China is adopting new technologies is breathtaking.

Take one example: high speed rail.

Five years ago, there was not a single kilometre of high speed track in China. Today, it has more than Europe and by 2012, it will have more than the rest of the world put together.

A vast, spotless factory in the port city of Qingdao is in the front line of this new industrial revolution.

It is here that the giant state-controlled train-making company CSR developed a Chinese high-speed train.

China's leaders "played a strong role in making all of this happen", says CSR's chairman, Xiaogang Zhao.

Foreign know-how

China's leaders started by demanding that any foreign company bidding for a part of the massive proposed high-speed programme to share its technology with a Chinese partner.

The Japanese engineering giant Kawasaki accepted this condition. A pioneer of high-speed rail, with almost half a century of development to its name, Kawasaki agreed to share its knowledge with CSR.

Siemens of Germany struck a similar deal with another Chinese train-maker.

With access to foreign know-how secured, the government then provided an army of 10,000 engineers and academics to create a Chinese train, Mr Zhao explains.

They did it, he says, in less than three years

New train

Inside the Qingdao factory, senior engineer Ding Sansan explains how every aspect of the Japanese train had to be redesigned for the faster 350 kilometres per hour running speed that China's high-speed strategy demanded.

Everyone worked so hard on the project that he can hardly remember his last holiday.

"It was a very big challenge", he says.

And it is just the beginning.

Mr Ding is now working on a new train, due to be tested next year at an astonishing 500 kilometres per hour.

Continues here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-10792465

1 August 2010 Last updated at 15:17 GMT

LaoPo

Edited August 3, 2010 by LaoPo

[rakman]

"He said he rode a Chinese train from Beijing to Tian Xing which took only 29 minutes for over 200 kilometres. The train runs at 338km/hr"

There is something wrong with the math in that sentence. 200km in 29 minutes means it would be over 400km/hr, right?

I always wonder about rate and duration of acceleration and deceleration in those problems.

You are correct in your thinking, but since the Chinese think this will help move raw materials, I'd like to see how long a multi-thousands of ton freight train get up to speed of around 350km/hr, then have the inevitable crash.

I wouldn't want to live within miles of the rail lines.

[robint]

hi speed train to rayong - presumably on top of the existing narrow gauge rail

WOw all those road crossings barrier to wing up and down

i suppose the train will have a super strong buffalo catcher on the fron - should easily cope with a family of 5 on a motorcy?

you would need high strong fencing to keep the silly buglers off the line. at that speed by the time you hear it coming then in the blink of an eye its upon you.

Anyway if its anything like the farcical airport link 5 years late and 10x over budget.

Jingoistic rubbush :jap:

[LaoPo]

hi speed train to rayong - presumably on top of the existing narrow gauge rail

WOw all those road crossings barrier to wing up and down

i suppose the train will have a super strong buffalo catcher on the fron - should easily cope with a family of 5 on a motorcy?

you would need high strong fencing to keep the silly buglers off the line. at that speed by the time you hear it coming then in the blink of an eye its upon you.

Anyway if its anything like the farcical airport link 5 years late and 10x over budget.

Jingoistic rubbush :jap:

Most HIGH SPEED train tracks have no crossings.

and:

Not if China invests and manages the project; they simply won't let it come that far. But, we'll see.

LaoPo

Edited August 15, 2010 by LaoPo

[tw25rw]

Unlike you, I'm not guessing.

Your answers are getting shorter and shorter since you're not able to come up with facts.

If you have "knowledgeable and informed opinion" as you wrote I'm sure you don't object explaining your knowledge and informed opinion.

But, I'm afraid you won't.

Lots of blah-blah but no facts and explanations.

LaoPo

Have you ever watched Chinese labourers position delicate imported (usually German or French made) railway communication equipment using large hammers before encasing in it concrete? I have.

Have you ever tried to explain the likely disaster to Chinese management and been brushed aside because the schedule is all important? I have.

My answers were short because explaining myself here won't change anything and your opinion doesn't matter to me.

[tw25rw]

Not if China invests and manages the project; they simply won't let it come that far. But, we'll see.

LaoPo

LOL, seriously!

[LaoPo]

Have you ever watched Chinese labourers position delicate imported (usually German or French made) railway communication equipment using large hammers before encasing in it concrete? I have.

Have you ever tried to explain the likely disaster to Chinese management and been brushed aside because the schedule is all important? I have.

My answers were short because explaining myself here won't change anything and your opinion doesn't matter to me.

If my opinion doesn't matter to you, why answer?

Yes, I have worked with Chinese factories and laborers for more than 30 years thank you very much and know how difficult it is.

At least the Chinese belong to the hardest workers on the planet and I still do business with China on a 24/7 day basis, yes, and that includes Saturdays and Sundays.

Where do you find that in the rest of the world ?

But, I'm honest enough; that includes headaches -for free- also

LaoPo

[chantorn]

I imagine that this story is up to the usual high standards that we've come to expect from Thai journalists. The link to Rayong, will probably pass through Pattaya and end at Maptoput, which is the route followed by the current rail tracks. The rail to Laos will probably follow the Nong Khai route, unless it goes to Suwannakhet instead.

"pass through Pattaya". I guess so, but does that mean the old Pattaya station in the sticks, with passengers left to the song tow mafia, which would mean that the upgrade is only half an upgrade? Or will they do the sensible thing / do it properly and take the line into Pattaya city?

I went pass Pattaya station yesterday. It is nothing but a shed and a platform. I found some photo here:

http://portal.rotfaithai.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3657&start=10

[expat4life]

First off when was Thai l;aw changed to allow foreign companies to engage in transportation business other than International air travel ?

Secondly , I live and work in China and the general quality of the engineers is a joke, and workers do a job any way they think is right regardless

of what the plans call for . this is a disaster in waiting.

[Wozzit]

its a conventional train until about 125mph then it goes in maglev mode.

The Transrapid technology used on the Shanghai line does not require wheels at all as it is based on EMS (electromagnetic suspension). Other systems which use EDS (electrodynamic suspension) roll on wheels until about 30kph.

Having travelled on this train, I can assure you it is in maglev mode a lot earlier than 200kph......

Last week I was on both the older Maglev and new rapid rail system out of Shanghai (opened in July). The Maglev reached a speed of 431 kph and took 7 minutes and 20 seconds to cover approx. 30kms from the airport. The rapid train runs on conventional but specially built track. Shanghai to Suzhou took 22 minutes for a journey of approx. 100 kms, most at a speed of between 320 and 330 kph. Both trips cost approx, 190 Baht.