Al Qaeda To Blame For London's Explosions?

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Who said it was AQ? I have not seen any announcement regarding their vindication of the attacks.................I have seen the BBC website talking about that muslim website (but thei didn't publish the address) and secret services in Italy said that that message has not been verified as real (same as the BBC though)

Maybe we are all too fast to point our fingers to muslim ppl?    What about all those good muslim living in London considering all the hate that is generating from the varius speculations?

Just my opinion and I am not muslim neither practice the religion but I knoe many good muslim ppl that are really frightened

Still I am upset for the attacks though 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I'm sure it wasn't the French.

[Greer]

Yes, the thoughts on terrorism from all are quite valid and to be expected at this time - but we must all condemn, and I am sure we do, the thugs who promote this as a form of weapon...

We do, however, have to avoid labelling people or religions as supporters of such acts simply because the ones perpetrating them are of the same religion or belief.

I know many Arabs and and have many Arabic and Moslem friends in the Middle East, but they are not fanatics, and are as horrified as anyone else about these awful acts, and I know they condemn murder in any form, as it is directly against the teachings of the Holy Koran.

Who can tell to which religious group the affected commuters and innocent victims belong? Bombs don't target specific individual characteristics - they just kill and injure all in the area, regardless of creed.

The perpetrators are criminals, murderers, the scum of any society, nothing more.

Do not enoble them with "high ideals" as fighting for a cause.

Edited July 7, 2005 by Greer

[Boon Mee]

A statment from the perpetrators from Fox News Website.

A statement from the group was published on a Web site popular with Islamic militants.

"Rejoice, Islamic nation. Rejoice, Arab world. The time has come for vengeance against the Zionist crusader government of Britain in response to the massacres Britain committed in Iraq and Afghanistan," said the statement, which was translated by The Associated Press in Cairo. "The heroic mujahedeen carried out a blessed attack in London, and now Britain is burning with fear and terror, from north to south, east to west."

Just a message to them. No we ain't!!

If this is legitimate, I will change my thoughts on many topics to do with Islam. I am one who stands up for them in all posts on this forum, but its starting to get harder to keep that thought process.

Likewise, Tornado. Likewise.

What I want to know is what took you guys so long to get 'clued-in'?

Did it take a terrorist act like this on your native soil to convince you?

Wasn't 9/11 enough as well as Afganistan/Iraq?

[Gohonzon]

Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.  When the British people let their soldiers go to Iraq (and Afghanistan, also?), the UK started killing innocent victims, and - if we are to believe this alleged communication from Al-Qaeda - innocent victims in London get killed because of that.

Violence begets violence.  Violence never creates peace, NEVER.  As an RAF active duty member reminded me lately, you can't achieve sobriety by drinking.  Also, you can't achieve virginity by raping, and you can't make peace by war.

I condemn ALL violence, all violence by all people everywhere.  Violence against Jews during the Holocaust; violence against Palestinians yesterday, today, and tomorrow; violence by Christians during the Crusades; and of course all violence by all Muslims everywhere and always; and of course all violence by all Buddhists everywhere and always, including THAILAND. 

Surely this series of bomb blasts in London is wrong, wrong, wrong.  So, is the indiscriminate, stupid, immoral, inhumn, inhumane, unjust bombing of Iraqis not wrong, wrong, wrong?

If you believe in some use of violence, you are a person who believes in violence, trusts in violence, places your greatest faith in violence.  And that's heresy even if you're an atheist.

Our hearts go out to the innocent victims in London.  And to all innocent victims everywhere.  let us not kill more innocents.

Didn't we learn on 9/11 that three thousand wrongs don't make a right?  You cannot avenge the innocent victims of 7 July by more violence.

Let him without sin cast the first stone; let the rest of us pick up the pieces and start doing the things that make for PEACE, non-violently, loving our enemies.

There is only one way you can recognize a believer of truth or peace: they love their enemies.  No other characteristic; just love.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All respect for this post.

I add the example of Bodhisattva Never Disparaging from ch 20 of The Lotus Sutra

"Many years passed in this way, during which this monk was constantly subjected to curses and abuse. He did not give way to anger, however, but each time spoke the same words, 'You are certain to attain Buddhahood.' When he spoke in this manner, some among the group would take sticks of wood or tiles and stones and beat and pelt him. But even as he ran away and took up his stance at a distance, he continued to call out in a loud voice, ' I would never dare disparage you, for you are all certain to attain Buddhahood!' And because he always spoke these words, the overbearing arrogant monks, nuns, laymen and laywomen gave him the name Never Disparaging. "

Nam-myho-renge-kyo, Nam-myho-renge-kyo.

Edited July 7, 2005 by Gohonzon

[britmaveric]

PB - too bloody idealistic mate. If this was a perfect world then we could do what you say. Deliver flowers to those who harm and thank them because we obviously deserved it. However since this is a vile evil place those animals need to be treated as such and erased permanently.

[sadman]

Yes, the thoughts on terrorism from all are quite valid and to be expected at this time - but we must all condemn, and I am sure we do, the thugs who promote this as a form of weapon...

We do, however, have to avoid labelling people or religions as supporters of such acts simply because the ones perpetrating them are of the same religion or belief.

I know many Arabs and and have many Arabic and Moslem friends in the Middle East, but they are not fanatics, and are as horrified as anyone else about these awful acts, and I know they condemn murder in any form, as it is directly against the teachings of the Holy Koran.

Who can tell to which religious group the affected commuters and innocent victims belong? Bombs don't target specific individual characteristics - they just kill and injure all in the area, regardless of creed.

The perpetrators are criminals, murderers, the scum of any society, nothing more.

Do not enoble them with "high ideals" as fighting for a cause.

Hear, hear. I also agree in part with PeaceBlondie's post, but I'm afraid that the milk of human kindness runs shallow in me at present. BUT: NO RETALIATION! Seek justice through the law. Leave the Muslims alone.

[Boon Mee]

Yes, the thoughts on terrorism from all are quite valid and to be expected at this time - but we must all condemn, and I am sure we do, the thugs who promote this as a form of weapon...

We do, however, have to avoid labelling people or religions as supporters of such acts simply because the ones perpetrating them are of the same religion or belief.

I know many Arabs and and have many Arabic and Moslem friends in the Middle East, but they are not fanatics, and are as horrified as anyone else about these awful acts, and I know they condemn murder in any form, as it is directly against the teachings of the Holy Koran.

Who can tell to which religious group the affected commuters and innocent victims belong? Bombs don't target specific individual characteristics - they just kill and injure all in the area, regardless of creed.

The perpetrators are criminals, murderers, the scum of any society, nothing more.

Do not enoble them with "high ideals" as fighting for a cause.

Hear, hear. I also agree in part with PeaceBlondie's post, but I'm afraid that the milk of human kindness runs shallow in me at present. BUT: NO RETALIATION! Seek justice through the law. Leave the Muslims alone.

Turn the other cheek, eh?

Figure we shouda taken bin laden to court rather than wipe out his terrorist training camps etc?

[sadman]

just a quickie. now personal - one of my staff was caught in some blast somewhere - don't know where. critical in hosp. off to tell his 9mth pregnant wife and 4 yrold son.

bear them in mind

saddo

[britmaveric]

Retaliation is what they will get 100 fold!

[chuchok]

A statment from the perpetrators from Fox News Website.

A statement from the group was published on a Web site popular with Islamic militants.

"Rejoice, Islamic nation. Rejoice, Arab world. The time has come for vengeance against the Zionist crusader government of Britain in response to the massacres Britain committed in Iraq and Afghanistan," said the statement, which was translated by The Associated Press in Cairo. "The heroic mujahedeen carried out a blessed attack in London, and now Britain is burning with fear and terror, from north to south, east to west."

Just a message to them. No we ain't!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If this is legitimate, I will change my thoughts on many topics to do with Islam. I am one who stands up for them in all posts on this forum, but its starting to get harder to keep that thought process.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Likewise, Tornado. Likewise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What I want to know is what took you guys so long to get 'clued-in'?

Did it take a terrorist act like this on your native soil to convince you?

Wasn't 9/11 enough as well as Afganistan/Iraq?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boon, you seem to forget that the IRA used these tactics all the time. Not all of England hate all of the Irish.

[TokyoT]

Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.  When the British people let their soldiers go to Iraq (and Afghanistan, also?), the UK started killing innocent victims, and - if we are to believe this alleged communication from Al-Qaeda - innocent victims in London get killed because of that.

Violence begets violence.  Violence never creates peace, NEVER.  As an RAF active duty member reminded me lately, you can't achieve sobriety by drinking.  Also, you can't achieve virginity by raping, and you can't make peace by war.

I condemn ALL violence, all violence by all people everywhere.  Violence against Jews during the Holocaust; violence against Palestinians yesterday, today, and tomorrow; violence by Christians during the Crusades; and of course all violence by all Muslims everywhere and always; and of course all violence by all Buddhists everywhere and always, including THAILAND. 

Surely this series of bomb blasts in London is wrong, wrong, wrong.  So, is the indiscriminate, stupid, immoral, inhumn, inhumane, unjust bombing of Iraqis not wrong, wrong, wrong?

If you believe in some use of violence, you are a person who believes in violence, trusts in violence, places your greatest faith in violence.  And that's heresy even if you're an atheist.

Our hearts go out to the innocent victims in London.  And to all innocent victims everywhere.  let us not kill more innocents.

Didn't we learn on 9/11 that three thousand wrongs don't make a right?  You cannot avenge the innocent victims of 7 July by more violence.

Let him without sin cast the first stone; let the rest of us pick up the pieces and start doing the things that make for PEACE, non-violently, loving our enemies.

There is only one way you can recognize a believer of truth or peace: they love their enemies.  No other characteristic; just love.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about the Nazi’s?

What about the genocide in Bosnia?

What about the Japanese occupations in Asia?

Would any of these situations be resolved without the use of violence?

Yes, there is a time and a place to use violence, and yes history has proven that the use of violence can bring peace. And most of the free world has violence to thank for the freedoms they now enjoy.

[coldcrush]

The vast majority of moslems in Britain are peace loving and good people. They must be horrified by all of this.

Unfortunately, the extreme right-wing element in the U.K. will use these events as ammunition, and brainwash simple young thugs and morons in the U.K.

There will be attacks against moslem places of worship, and even attacks on moslems. The British Police force will turn a blind eye.

The situation will worsen. Extreme Islam websited are promising Denmark and Italy will be next.

If I were a moslem in London now, I would be fearful of the underclass, that can stir up trouble quickly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

scary times indeed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fear as English and other nationailitys do when travelling in Muslim countrys. Fear when Dictators gag the freedom of speech of their own people. Fear whatever you want, these people who are terrorists deserve backlash....

[Boon Mee]

A statment from the perpetrators from Fox News Website.

A statement from the group was published on a Web site popular with Islamic militants.

"Rejoice, Islamic nation. Rejoice, Arab world. The time has come for vengeance against the Zionist crusader government of Britain in response to the massacres Britain committed in Iraq and Afghanistan," said the statement, which was translated by The Associated Press in Cairo. "The heroic mujahedeen carried out a blessed attack in London, and now Britain is burning with fear and terror, from north to south, east to west."

Just a message to them. No we ain't!!

If this is legitimate, I will change my thoughts on many topics to do with Islam. I am one who stands up for them in all posts on this forum, but its starting to get harder to keep that thought process.

Likewise, Tornado. Likewise.

What I want to know is what took you guys so long to get 'clued-in'?

Did it take a terrorist act like this on your native soil to convince you?

Wasn't 9/11 enough as well as Afganistan/Iraq?

Boon, you seem to forget that the IRA used these tactics all the time. Not all of England hate all of the Irish.

Well, just speaking from personal experience, I've never met a Brit who had anything good to say about them.

Sorry - off topic.

[PeaceBlondie]

I agree with everything you're saying PB but what are we to do?

We can't remove the troops from Iraq, and they should not have gone in in the first plave but what's done is done and there's no turning back so what do we do?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Scamp, thanks. I'm trying to understand your plight at this most difficult time. Why can't the UK remove its troops from Iraq? Whoever sent them - can't they recall them? Why do you say there's no turning back? If you make a mistake, you correct it as much as you can, from the point at which you realize the mistake.

Can your Queen recall the troops? Can Tony Blair? Can Parliament?

[ProfessorFart]

Peace Blondie. Your post is too fluffy and way off the real issues. You are making a big mistake if you think this has anything to do with Iraq.

Do you seriously think that if we were not in Iraq or Afghanistan these people would be happy and leave us alone?

Their motive is NOT Iraq or Afghanistan no matter what they say. That is merely a conveinient excuse which they are hiding behind. These attacks would have happened no matter what.

It is all down to religious fanatacism plain and simple. Trying to tie all of this up into Iraq is utter nonsense and really detracts from the real issues behind these attacks.

Edited July 7, 2005 by ProfessorFart

[britmaveric]

Peace Blondie. Your post is too fluffy and way off the real issues. You are making a big mistake if you think this has anything to do with Iraq.

Do you seriously think that if we were not in Iraq or Afghanistan these people would be happy and leave us alone. Their motive is NOT Iraq or Afghanistan no matter what they say. That is merely an excuse. These attacks would have happened no matter what.

It is all down to religious fanatacism plain and simple. Trying to tie all of this up into Iraq is utter nonsense and really detracts from the real issues behind these attacks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Prof - I agree and withdraw would make things much worse for the world. Weakness just encourages these animals.

Edited July 7, 2005 by britmaveric

[dereklev]

just a quickie. now personal - one of my staff was caught in some blast somewhere - don't know where. critical in hosp. off to tell his 9mth pregnant wife and 4 yrold son.

bear them in mind

saddo

Sorry to hear that saddo.

I hope he makes a full and speedy recovery.

Derek

[coldcrush]

Peace Blondie. Your post is too fluffy and way off the real issues. You are making a big mistake if you think this has anything to do with Iraq.

Do you seriously think that if we were not in Iraq or Afghanistan these people would be happy and leave us alone?

Their motive is NOT Iraq or Afghanistan no matter what they say. That is merely a conveinient excuse which they are hiding behind. These attacks would have happened no matter what.

It is all down to religious fanatacism plain and simple. Trying to tie all of this up into Iraq is utter nonsense and really detracts from the real issues behind these attacks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

agee with proffessor 100%

[TokyoT]

I agree with everything you're saying PB but what are we to do?

We can't remove the troops from Iraq, and they should not have gone in in the first plave but what's done is done and there's no turning back so what do we do?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Scamp, thanks. I'm trying to understand your plight at this most difficult time. Why can't the UK remove its troops from Iraq? Whoever sent them - can't they recall them? Why do you say there's no turning back? If you make a mistake, you correct it as much as you can, from the point at which you realize the mistake.

Can your Queen recall the troops? Can Tony Blair? Can Parliament?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok so the US, the UK, all the western nations pull ALL of the troops out of Iraq. Do you realize the problems this would create? What kind of power vacuum this would create?

Do you think the Kurds in the north would not lash out without the reassurances that are now being given to them by the west, and the changes that are now occurring in Iraq to give them a real voice? Do you think the newly elected ultra conservative in Iran might have an interest in filling that vacuum? Do you think the amount of violence that exists there now would be reduced?

Do you really think that the complete and immediate withdraw of western troops could possibly lead to any kind of positive result for the region?

[PeaceBlondie]

PB - too bloody idealistic mate. If this was a perfect world then we could do what you say. Deliver flowers to those who harm and thank them because we obviously deserved it. However since this is a vile evil place those animals need to be treated as such and erased permanently.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Brit - and that part of your name means a lot more right now - Brit, with all due respect for what you know, understand and believe:

My position of Christian pacifism is both idealistic and practical. One third of all the people who now live on this planet, live in countries which got their independence since 1945 NON-VIOLENTLY. Non-violent direct action (NVDA) is far, far, far, far more practical than killing and destruction.

Incidentally, most of those 1/3 of all humans live in countries where the benign empire of the British Commonwealth allowed the nations to go peacefully. While British colonialism wasn't perfect, it was generally benign. It would be a blot on Great Britain's record to smear that reputation in innocent blood.

Brit, at this tragic time, because the terrorists have done a great and terrible evil, are you bloody suggesting that the United Kingdom must do a bloody evil? No, I echo the words of the pacifists who say, "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with goodness."

[ProfessorFart]

Indeed how would a withdrawal of troops from Iraq end these attacks?

I'm fascinated to see how they would.

[mtnthai]

if the commentary and debate that i have just read throughout this string is comparable tothat which is going on all over the world right now....we are all in deep.

the amount of hate, bigotry, racisim and scape-goating, compared to the views of tolerance and "hey, let's first wait and see what really went down before we go off half-cocked" is overwhelming and THE reason our world has been in this state of affairs since THE BEGINNING OF TIME.

peace

Edited July 7, 2005 by mtnthai

[dereklev]

PB - too bloody idealistic mate. If this was a perfect world then we could do what you say. Deliver flowers to those who harm and thank them because we obviously deserved it. However since this is a vile evil place those animals need to be treated as such and erased permanently.

Brit - and that part of your name means a lot more right now - Brit, with all due respect for what you know, understand and believe:

My position of Christian pacifism is both idealistic and practical. One third of all the people who now live on this planet, live in countries which got their independence since 1945 NON-VIOLENTLY. Non-violent direct action (NVDA) is far, far, far, far more practical than killing and destruction.

Incidentally, most of those 1/3 of all humans live in countries where the benign empire of the British Commonwealth allowed the nations to go peacefully. While British colonialism wasn't perfect, it was generally benign. It would be a blot on Great Britain's record to smear that reputation in innocent blood.

Brit, at this tragic time, because the terrorists have done a great and terrible evil, are you bloody suggesting that the United Kingdom must do a bloody evil? No, I echo the words of the pacifists who say, "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with goodness."

I am sure that will greatly reassure the families who lost loved ones in London today! !

I am also sure that the British authorities will try to overcome this evil with goodness....

Sorry PeaceBlondie but IMHO you have totally lost the plot! !

[PeaceBlondie]

What about the Nazi’s?

What about the genocide in Bosnia?

What about the Japanese occupations in Asia?

Would any of these situations be resolved without the use of violence? 

Yes, there is a time and a place to use violence, and yes history has proven that the use of violence can bring peace.  And most of the free world has violence to thank for the freedoms they now enjoy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the German nation had been peaceful from the days of Martin Luther, rather than militaristic, they would not have resorted to what the Nazis did. I would remind us all that almost everybody in Germany and the former Yugoslavia claimed to be disciples of the Prince of Peace, but they never followed the non-violent imperative commands of Jesus.

ALL of these situation could have been resolved without the use of violence, if you get to conveniently go back and say, "What if?" What if Martin Luther had been a pacifist? What if the Bosnians had been true Christians?

Non-violent direct action does not always succeed. However, in my arrogant opinion as a pacifist, WAR ALWAYS FAILS. Usually or often, NVDA has worked in every type of government, on every continent, in almost every time period.

Freedom is worthless when it comes at the cost of innocent lives.

[britmaveric]

PB - yes I agree you in part, but unfortunately those animals don't think rationally as you and I do. Their goal is total radical muslim domination world wide. So while it maybe lovely to sit by and watch the world go to shi*e but one must act eventually. Remember WWII could have been avoided if govts didnt use the policy of appeasement.

Edited July 7, 2005 by britmaveric

[wolf5370]

Sorry, but fanatics can't be appeased. Not when their 'cause' is the removal of ALL non-muslims. Not all muslims are fanatics of course, but those that are do not take olive branches. If you can't appease them, and you can't ignore them, then there is little choice but to seek and destroy them.

I am against knee-jerk reactions, and I am against blaming a whole race and/or religion. However, I think its getting d4mn close to the time when exeptions are made to human rights laws (OK, some have been ignored, but political and international preasure follows when they are). That those suspected are arrested and held - there will be mistakes and innocents will be detained, but so will the guilty.

Technology needs to be brought to the fore to remove the ability of these people to communicate their messages of hate. Governments should target web sites, TV and radio stations and quieten them. Take religion out of schools completely. D notice news clips and soundbites that come from them (and not the stupid Anti-Adam's thing they did before where his voice was banned, but his word weren't, so an actor dubbed him - doh!). Total blackout. Return any suspected undesireables with visas or passports - revoke their aquired citizenship and send them packing. Use the Riot-Act against hate laden sermons and arrest the preachers that preach hate. Lets get the crap out of our childrens head, lets help the true Muslims by protected them from those that would brainwash them, use them and kill them.

Use special forces to assissinate the leaders and those known to fund and support them. I know assassination is illegal, I just don't care in this case. The cancer has to be lanced.

Lock suspect bank accounts and company fronts. If countries like Panama, Switzerland, etc refuse, then embargo them - put large tax levies on locals that hold accounts in those countries to nudge them to boycot those countries too.

Embrago ANY country giving refuge. Even if it is Saudi! Lets turn them against themselves. Lets make the honest Muslims hate the MF's too.

Lets starve the b*stards of the media, money and fodder - they will die a natural death in their own countries then - and probably by their own countryman's hands!

[Gohonzon]

if the commentary and debate that i have just read throughout this string is comparable tothat which is going on all over the world right now....we are all in deep.

the amount of hate, bigotry, racisim and scape-goating, compared to the views of tolerance and "hey, let's first wait and see what really went down before we go off half-cocked" is overwhelming and THE reason our world has been in this state of affairs since THE BEGINNING OF TIME.

peace

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right of course. People just need to examine that when they point the index finger,and ignoring their thumb, in which direction the other three fingers are pointing.

There is no breaking the cycles that you mention until each individual accepts it his/her responsibilty to create the answer from within themselves outward.

Or as Gandhi once said:

"You are the change that you wish to see."

Just how fluffy is that?

[dereklev]

if the commentary and debate that i have just read throughout this string is comparable tothat which is going on all over the world right now....we are all in deep.

the amount of hate, bigotry, racisim and scape-goating, compared to the views of tolerance and "hey, let's first wait and see what really went down before we go off half-cocked" is overwhelming and THE reason our world has been in this state of affairs since THE BEGINNING OF TIME.

peace

You're right of course. People just need to examine that when they point the index finger,and ignoring their thumb, in which direction the other three fingers are pointing.

There is no breaking the cycles that you mention until each individual accepts it his/her responsibilty to create the answer from within themselves outward.

Or as Gandhi once said:

"You are the change that you wish to see."

Just how fluffy is that?

Fluffy or not just look at what Gandhi achieved.

[coldcrush]

Sorry, but fanatics can't be appeased. Not when their 'cause' is the removal of ALL non-muslims. Not all muslims are fanatics of course, but those that are do not take olive branches. If you can't appease them, and you can't ignore them, then there is little choice but to seek and destroy them.

I am against knee-jerk reactions, and I am against blaming a whole race and/or religion. However, I think its getting d4mn close to the time when exeptions are made to human rights laws (OK, some have been ignored, but political and international preasure follows when they are). That those suspected are arrested and held - there will be mistakes and innocents will be detained, but so will the guilty.

Technology needs to be brought to the fore to remove the ability of these people to communicate their messages of hate. Governments should target web sites, TV and radio stations and quieten them. Take religion out of schools completely. D notice news clips and soundbites that come from them (and not the stupid Anti-Adam's thing they did before where his voice was banned, but his word weren't, so an actor dubbed him - doh!). Total blackout. Return any suspected undesireables with visas or passports - revoke their aquired citizenship and send them packing. Use the Riot-Act against hate laden sermons and arrest the preachers that preach hate. Lets get the crap out of our childrens head, lets help the true Muslims by protected them from those that would brainwash them, use them and kill them.

Use special forces to assissinate the leaders and those known to fund and support them. I know assassination is illegal, I just don't care in this case. The cancer has to be lanced.

Lock suspect bank accounts and company fronts. If countries like Panama, Switzerland, etc refuse, then embargo them - put large tax levies on locals that hold accounts in those countries to nudge them to boycot those countries too.

Embrago ANY country giving refuge. Even if it is Saudi! Lets turn them against themselves. Lets make the honest Muslims hate the MF's too.

Lets starve the b*stards of the media, money and fodder - they will die a natural death in their own countries then - and probably by their own countryman's hands!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do that mean everyone should not be talking on here? I am lost, get me a map---------> 1984. However the speech was good, if your ######ing Hitler!!!

[Neeranam]

You're right of course. People just need to examine that when they point the index finger,and ignoring their thumb, in which direction the other three fingers are pointing.

There is no breaking the cycles that you mention until each individual accepts it his/her responsibilty to create the answer from within themselves outward.

Or as Gandhi once said:

"You are the change that you wish to see."

Just how fluffy is that?

Well said, mate.

What would Thai paople do in this situation?

Is this anything to do with Thailand?