London in chaos after terrorist blasts; 45+ killed

[Pattaya_Fox]

Thaksin said virtually the same thing the day after the attacks on New York

[patsfangr]

I strongly support what quiddity and those of like mind have said here.

As usual, the news managers have shifted the focus of blame from Bush and poodle Blair. These two are good at managing news. However, from a purely management point of view, their "leadership" is not working, to say the least. They claimed that their illegal war in Iraq, on a pretext of lies, would make the world a safer place. Even a child would know that would not work.

Blair made an outrageous statement about "Islamic terrorists". The Commissioner of Police (or someone of similar standing) answered a question about "Islamic terrorists" to the effect that "Islamic terrorists" is not a collocation. The politicians stoke the fire and the professional police have to dowse it.

It is quite obvious that bomb attacks such as the London ones can never be stopped through war. They can be stopped only through subtler means. It is the job of political "leaders" to understand and employ those means. But to do that, they would actually have to think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You might as well try to stop a Tsunami with a 10 foot wall of sandbags as try to stop these religious fundamentalists with "subtler means." What would those means be, Iplay? Do you tell them that you agree to remove all "non-believers" from their countries, and allow them to "clean up" any who remain? Do you think that even that would appease them, since those of that mind set do NOT limit their "territory" to any political boundaries?

There are no "subtle means" that will stop people with these goals, Iplay. They are dedicated to the spread of their poisonous version of Islam until it is the only religion on Earth. Anyone not with them is, and always shall be, against them. Those against them, by their philosophy, must be exterminated, and not by "subtle means"! Period. End of story.

[PeaceBlondie]

I suggest we join in sincere prayer: "Dearest God, please comfort the dear souls who survived the blasts yesterday, and have mercy on the souls of those who died. Bless our enemies, all our enemies. Some do not know what they do; others just need your blessing. Thank you, God."

[bambob]

Blair has only himself to blame . UK is a nest of vipers from Pakistan ,Indian etc. many of them rejoice at 9/11 and these acts.

The UK embassy go to great lengths to keep Thai out of the UK but the scum of the middle east are let in without a hitch .Rapists ,murderers ,terrorists are all allowed into the UK to cause trouble, so Blair has only himself to blame if a heaviily laden suicide bomber rushes into the House Of Commons one day and blows them all the heellll.

Its gonna happen one day for sure.

[Pattaya_Fox]

Blair has only himself to blame . UK is a nest of vipers from Pakistan ,Indian etc. many of them  rejoice at 9/11 and these acts.

The UK embassy go to great lengths to keep Thai out of the UK but the scum of the middle east are let in without a hitch .Rapists ,murderers ,terrorists are all allowed into the UK to cause trouble, so Blair has only himself to blame if a heaviily laden suicide bomber rushes into the House Of Commons one day and blows them all the heellll.

Its gonna happen one day for sure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually Tony Blair through the present Home Secretary and the previous Home Secretary has tried to introduce stronger restrictive powers on would be aliens and persons held in detention suspected of having links with terrorist organisations.

Don`t blame them..blame the do gooders and the legal system and the so called civil liberty brigade who bend over backwards and inadvertently help these terrorists with their warped sense of justice

[mittheimp]

Blair has only himself to blame . UK is a nest of vipers from Pakistan ,Indian etc. many of them  rejoice at 9/11 and these acts.

The UK embassy go to great lengths to keep Thai out of the UK but the scum of the middle east are let in without a hitch .Rapists ,murderers ,terrorists are all allowed into the UK to cause trouble, so Blair has only himself to blame if a heaviily laden suicide bomber rushes into the House Of Commons one day and blows them all the heellll.

Its gonna happen one day for sure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you havent got anything constructive to add then i suggest you don't add anything at all. Your ill informed racist bigoted nonsense serves no good what so ever. Everyone is shocked at what has happened in London, you can see this by walking the streets of my neighbourhood which is in Brent, the most diverse region in the whole of the UK. Certain parts of the media may focus on total mad fanatics like Abu Hamza and the gullible believe that he accurately reflects Muslims in the UK. He clearly doesnt and the overwelming majority are deeply shocked and outraged too.

Do the Klu Klux Klan accurately represent Christians?

Should the whole "aryan" race be tarnished with the same brush as Hitler and the Nazi's?

[patsfangr]

Don`t blame them..blame the do gooders and the legal system and the so called civil liberty brigade who bend over backwards and inadvertently help these terrorists with their warped sense of justice

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Got more than we need of that extreme here in the USA, Fox. The challenge is in finding the right blend between the extremes of a police state, which provides the ultimate in "security", and anarchy, which provides the ultimate in "freedom". While a miniscule few in the USA favor either of those extremes, it's difficult to find any two people who can agree on exactly how to strike the right balance.

[Thomas_Merton]

I suggest we join in sincere prayer: "Dearest God, please comfort the dear souls who survived the blasts yesterday, and have mercy on the souls of those who died.  Bless our enemies, all our enemies.  Some do not know what they do; others just need your blessing.  Thank you, God."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With you, PB.

[quiddity]

I strongly support what quiddity and those of like mind have said here.

As usual, the news managers have shifted the focus of blame from Bush and poodle Blair. These two are good at managing news. However, from a purely management point of view, their "leadership" is not working, to say the least. They claimed that their illegal war in Iraq, on a pretext of lies, would make the world a safer place. Even a child would know that would not work.

Blair made an outrageous statement about "Islamic terrorists". The Commissioner of Police (or someone of similar standing) answered a question about "Islamic terrorists" to the effect that "Islamic terrorists" is not a collocation. The politicians stoke the fire and the professional police have to dowse it.

It is quite obvious that bomb attacks such as the London ones can never be stopped through war. They can be stopped only through subtler means. It is the job of political "leaders" to understand and employ those means. But to do that, they would actually have to think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You might as well try to stop a Tsunami with a 10 foot wall of sandbags as try to stop these religious fundamentalists with "subtler means." What would those means be, Iplay? Do you tell them that you agree to remove all "non-believers" from their countries, and allow them to "clean up" any who remain? Do you think that even that would appease them, since those of that mind set do NOT limit their "territory" to any political boundaries?

There are no "subtle means" that will stop people with these goals, Iplay. They are dedicated to the spread of their poisonous version of Islam until it is the only religion on Earth. Anyone not with them is, and always shall be, against them. Those against them, by their philosophy, must be exterminated, and not by "subtle means"! Period. End of story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Subtler means were not implied in my original post. Rather, following the so-called war on terror down more clearly appropriate paths was my suggestion. To have shifted focus from Afghanistan to Iraq was a disastrous mistake, to say the absolute least.

Iraq represented a considerably weaker link to terrorism than any number of places, including Thailand and various other parts of SE Asia. Even the 9/11 Commission cited SE Asia as one of the five hotspots for breeding world terrorism.

Subtler means could, in fact, be pursued as a complement to the more explicit, aggressive ventures. To argue otherwise seems to admit of naivete of the value of the quieter realms of intel, psy ops, and, yes, plain old diplomacy. Perhaps if we approached the situation more holistically, so to speak, Abu Graib and Guantamo Bay wouldn't have devolved into such foul and egregious legacies of abuse.

Iraq doesn't provide, rather, didn't provide the fertile ground for terrorism that East Africa, SE Asia or a handful of Iraq's neighbors still do. The USS Cole was performed by Yemenis in the Gulf of Aden, not in Iraq. The US Embassy attacks took place in Nairobi, Kenya, not in Iraq.

Now that GW Bush and the government that represents me (sadly) has blown their wad on Iraq, God only knows what will continue to breed in the simmering terrorist hotspots like Sudan, Chechnya, Abu Sayyaf in the Phillipines, etc. We've expended hundreds of billions of dollars and have damaged world opinion toward our military right. Many military officials and associated think tanks believe that we're far overextended and cannot allocate all necessary funds to other important areas in the war on terror.

I hate to see the attacks in England, but it'll be more disturbing, still, if people take it as reason to abandon their disappointment with the British and American leadership.

[quiddity]

And "Wag the Dog" as well Mouse!

Talk about a rediculous conspiracy theory!

Please be kind enough to read my thread again for I never made a conspiracy theory, I merely asked some valid questions and stated that "Mark my words - The truth is never what it seems!"

After all look who they tried to blame it on during the Spanish elections and how they tried to benefit from that horrific act.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I'm no conspiracy theorists but I'll listen to just about any opinion. You never know what you'll find. I agree that the truth is often other than as it seems (never as it seems??? I might not go that far).

Anyway, I've talked to guys just returning from stints in the US special forces and, man oh man, they have some stories to tell. You know, things like, "You remember that latest car bomb blast in Israel? Yeah, that was me." Truth be told, I believe nothing with absolute certainty; I'm just a civilian who reads a lot and listens to as many pieces of the story as I can. The timing of many of these attacks is uncanny, though.

[quiddity]

If Moderate Muslims are really against these fanatics why don't they come openly against them? everytime there response is like they are just trying to save there back. I think its time for them to really think where exactly this attitude will take the world.

That is why they are called the silent majority. Why did the civilized world not come out against Idi Amin, Pol Pot or Germany until it was later in the game and millions had been brutally killed........ because it did not serve our interest. They will speak up eventually... hopefully it will not be too late!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And that is precisely why Bush was correct in going after Saddam. Whether or not he currently had WMD is not the point. The man was no different from Idi Amin, Pol Pot, and Hitler. Such men, left alone, will not stop their genocidal campaigns. They will continue the abuse and the killing, unless they are removed from power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can see justification in drawing parallels between Idi Amin, Pol Pot and Hussein but Hitler was a different animal in a number of ways. One way was the notion of "lebensraum" (living space). Hitler posed an active threat of dominion over all of continental Europe. None of the other dictators you mentioned rallied in such fashion.

There are MANY other ways in which Hussein was a pip squeak relative to the likes of Hitler or Stalin but I'll leave it at that. Sorry, I had to say something because it's one of those mythical comparisons which are terribly misleading and a personal pet peeve of mine.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Bring out the pigs for the mongrels.

[Tornado]

Bring out the pigs for the mongrels.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Bring out the pigs for the mongrels.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pigs for pigs Torny

[bajajvivek]

If Moderate Muslims are really against these fanatics why don't they come openly against them? everytime there response is like they are just trying to save there back. I think its time for them to really think where exactly this attitude will take the world.

That is why they are called the silent majority. Why did the civilized world not come out against Idi Amin, Pol Pot or Germany until it was later in the game and millions had been brutally killed........ because it did not serve our interest. They will speak up eventually... hopefully it will not be too late!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They do speak up, but only when they don't have to critisize the fanatism. When the Indian author Salman Rushdie released his book 'The Satanic Verses', the whole muslim comunity of the world opposed him and his book with one voice.

A very recent case in India when a muslim women was raped by her father in law, the muslim religious leaders gave the verdict that the women can no longer stay with her husband (she has become haram for her husband as she has been raped by some other man). She could either marry her father in law who raped her or marry someone else. the Indian law they won't follow. They'll only follow the what's written in Koran!!

There are plenty of such cases in India and the muslim community always proclaim in single voice that they have there own religion and customes and following them is there right!!!!!!!!

They'll come on roads, demonstrate everywhere, damage public property if they are not given rights to follow there beliefs. why don't they come on roads when some muslim fanatics kill innocent people???

[bajajvivek]

Blair has only himself to blame . UK is a nest of vipers from Pakistan ,Indian etc. many of them  rejoice at 9/11 and these acts.

The UK embassy go to great lengths to keep Thai out of the UK but the scum of the middle east are let in without a hitch .Rapists ,murderers ,terrorists are all allowed into the UK to cause trouble, so Blair has only himself to blame if a heaviily laden suicide bomber rushes into the House Of Commons one day and blows them all the heellll.

Its gonna happen one day for sure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dear Bambob

Kindly exclude Indians from your list. There are more Pakistanis and Bangladesis than Indians. and most of all almost all Indians either earned their visas, unlike Pakistanis and Bangladesis who took political asylum. I was on deputation in UK for around 5 months and I've seen things from my own eyes. I was staying in Huddersfield, West Yorkshire. Most of the Indians I found were very well educated and doing very respectable jobs or businesses. Most of the Indian (Pakistani actually but they can't sell food by writing Pakistani) restaurants I visited after knowing that I was Indian, the first question was, whether I was a Doctor??

The things simply changed with some difficult Brits after they knew me as Indian rather than Pakistani or Bangladesi.

India itself is facing a lot of problems from muslim terrorists from a long time. But I do agree with you that the British asylum policy is one of the main reason for this. I Pakistani worker in my office told me that the best possible way to get a visa for UK was to take political asylum.

What more freedom can you talk about in UK is that on BBC1 a muslim mullah openly said that if the number of muslims increase in Britain then some time they will definitely ask for a seprate muslim state. I heard this with my own ears in Britain!!!! It was shocking that's why the London bombings were not at all that shocking for me.

[bajajvivek]

I agree 100% with the last 2 posts. But I fear too many reactionaries have already condemned the whole Muslim population ( over 1.4 billion people )

Exactly what the trash resonsible for this carnage wanted.

I fear the next few years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you are not opposing the wrong doers, you are actually supporting them.

[wilko]

Blair has only himself to blame . UK is a nest of vipers from Pakistan ,Indian etc. many of them  rejoice at 9/11 and these acts.

The UK embassy go to great lengths to keep Thai out of the UK but the scum of the middle east are let in without a hitch .Rapists ,murderers ,terrorists are all allowed into the UK to cause trouble, so Blair has only himself to blame if a heaviily laden suicide bomber rushes into the House Of Commons one day and blows them all the heellll.

Its gonna happen one day for sure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was only a matter of time before someone posted this kind of utter clap-trap...I genuinely feel very sorry for you if this truely is your perspective of the world.

[camerata]

What more freedom can you talk about in UK is that on BBC1 a muslim mullah openly said that if the number of muslims increase in Britain then some time they will definitely ask for a seprate muslim state. I heard this with my own ears in Britain!!!!

I can see it now... The Islamic Republic of Yorkshire.

[bajajvivek]

What more freedom can you talk about in UK is that on BBC1 a muslim mullah openly said that if the number of muslims increase in Britain then some time they will definitely ask for a seprate muslim state. I heard this with my own ears in Britain!!!!

I can see it now... The Islamic Republic of Yorkshire.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It can very well become a truth sometime my dear friend.

[chuchok]

Fears for more NZers in London

09.07.05 5.20pm - Update

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is not ruling out the possibility that more New Zealanders could have been caught up in London's deadly blasts on Thursday.

Foreign Minister Phil Goff has already said they hold grave fears for one young New Zealand woman who was on the Tube when the bombs went off.

But he now says that, although there are no New Zealand names on the lists of casualties at any of London's hospitals, there are still hundreds of Kiwis still to be tracked down.

Mr Goff said there are tens of thousands of New Zealanders living and holidaying in London at the moment and in an incident of this magnitude there is clearly a possibility some of them could have been either injured or killed.The parents of the young woman missing since the rush-hour bombings are on their way to the United Kingdom, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT) said.

The woman is the only New Zealander the ministry had voiced serious concerns about since Thursday morning United Kingdom time when four explosions on public transport killed at least 50 people and injured 700.

MFAT public affairs director James Kember said the woman was believed to have been on a Piccadilly line underground train on her way to work and would normally have exited the train at Russell Square.

The second blast at 8.56am UK time struck a front carriage on a Piccadilly line train between Kings Cross and Russell Square stations.

MFAT would not reveal the woman's age or what part of New Zealand she came from.

MFAT had about 1000 names on its database, of which about half had been contacted and ruled out as not being missing.

"We are making inquiries about the other half," Mr Kember earlier told NZPA. "That doesn't alter the fact that there is only one person we have serious concerns about."

Staff from the New Zealand High Commission in London had now finished scouring central London hospitals for any injured New Zealanders, Mr Kember said. "They are now concentrating on getting casualty lists."

The High Commission had no reports so far of New Zealanders being serious injured in the explosions.

There had only been about a dozen calls to the High Commission's call centre on Friday and the office would now close overnight (UK time), he said.

People seeking information were advised to contact the Red Cross emergency centre on 0800 REDCROSS (0800 733 276) which had fielded 1500 inquiries since the terror attacks.

Meanwhile, MFAT has revised and upgraded its travel advice for the United Kingdom, ministry spokesman Brad Tattersfield said.

MFAT was not advising against non-essential travel to the UK.

"The latest advice notes that there is a heightened general and non-specific terrorist threat to the UK, with further attacks possible," he said.

"New Zealanders are advised to maintain a high level of personal security and to be extra vigilant when travelling on public transport in the UK."

The UK remained in MFAT's "some risk" category following the revised advise.

On its website, the ministry recommended New Zealanders planning to travel to London contact travel agents to check whether their travel plans would be affected and to, if necessary, make alternative arrangements.

"Security measures will be increased at major airports and at other transportation networks in the UK, government buildings, tourist sites and other public areas," the website said.

Messages of support and sympathy have been sent from New Zealand to Britain, and in return Britain has expressed its gratitude through the British High Commission in Wellington.

High Commissioner Richard Fell said yesterday New Zealanders had responded admirably to the attack and condemned those responsible.

"We will show by our spirit and dignity that our values will long outlast theirs -- and we will not be terrorised," he said.

Governor General Dame Silvia Cartwright has extended the sympathy of all New Zealanders to people affected by the bombings.

"All New Zealanders were shocked by the bombings in London," she said in a statement.

"Our thoughts are with the families of those that were killed, and also with the many hundreds who were injured. We hope that they will recover fully from this tragic event."

Prince William, who is visiting New Zealand to support the touring Lions rugby team and undertake a number of official duties, will sign a condolence book at the British Consulate-General in Auckland today.

With responsibility for the attacks being claimed by previously unknown Islamic extremists calling themselves the "Secret Group of al Qaeda's Jihad in Europe", New Zealand's Muslim community has united to condemn the bombings.

The Federation of Islamic Associations of New Zealand has said the Muslim community was shocked and saddened by events in London.

Federation president Javed Khan said Islam denounced terrorism at all levels and that the acts were "totally against the teachings of Islam".

"Islam promotes peace and security to all mankind. It does not allow lawless action against innocent people and their property, no matter when, where or under what pretext such action might be taken," he said.

The Muslim Association of Canterbury said the acts were "fundamentally un-Islamic, despicable and cowardly".

Lead singer of Cambridge band The Datsuns, Dolf de Borst, lives near the Edgware Road Station where the third bomb was detonated.

"Five people from around here died, just 300m from my home."

Home at the time, Mr de Borst saw people pouring out of the underground station. "They told us at the scene it was a bomb, but the TV coverage said it was due to a power surge."

Londoners would rally and things would soon return to normal, he said. "I'm very proud of all the people here. Everyone is very stoic."

Eugene Bogun and Phillip Stokes say some of their fellow New Zealand flatmates were considering coming home in the wake of the bombings, but the Rotorua men are vowing to stay put.

"There has been some talk of returning to New Zealand but I'm not in that frame of mind myself," Mr Stokes said. "I'm not letting it stress me too much."

The 24-year-old electrician, who began a working holiday in London in April, was working on a construction site in Slough when he received a panicked call from his mother in Rotorua.

"She was in tears because she'd been trying to reach me earlier but the lines were clogged.

"I had no idea what had happened."

- NZPA, NEWSTALK ZB

[siamesekitty]

I hope none of our fellow TV members or their family & relatives were hurt. My condolences to those affected...

[Chaz]

I read in today's Finacial Times that the Chinese are applauding and celebrating the bomb attacks on London. I hope the Beijing Olympics is a complete disaster and that many nations boycott the Games. The Chinese don't deserve to hold the Olympics anyway given their abysmal human rights record and the invasion of Tibet, and possible invasion Taiwan.

[chuchok]

I read in today's Finacial Times that the Chinese are applauding and celebrating the bomb attacks on London. I hope the Beijing Olympics is a complete disaster and that many nations boycott the Games. The Chinese don't deserve to hold the Olympics anyway given their abysmal human rights record and the invasion of Tibet, and possible invasion Taiwan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Show us the Link mate!

[Chaz]

I read in today's Finacial Times that the Chinese are applauding and celebrating the bomb attacks on London. I hope the Beijing Olympics is a complete disaster and that many nations boycott the Games. The Chinese don't deserve to hold the Olympics anyway given their abysmal human rights record and the invasion of Tibet, and possible invasion Taiwan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Show us the Link mate!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's no link that I know of yet as I am holding the paper in my hands right now.....mate!

[Totster]

Chinese chatrooms give backing to bombs

Chinese internetchat rooms were awash yesterday with reaction to the London terrorist bombings, much of it unsympathetic and outrighthostile to the many victims of the attack.

Many of the postings on sina.com, China's largest portal, suggested that the attack in London was justified in retaliation for the high-profile British involvement in the Iraq war.

"This is a gift to the imperialists who imposed hegemony upon others," said one posting.

"The British are as evil as Americans. Thank God for the attack!" said another.

One participant in the chat session who was disturbed by the tone of the discussion surveyed a sample of the 27,000 postings, and reported that about one third had expressed positive sentiment about the attack.

"Why didn't terrorists set off the explosive on the day when London won the bid to host the Olympics?" read one chatroom posting. "What a grand scene would that be! The leaders of al-Qaeda have made a bad plan!""I am in strong favour of Jihad and any terrorist action against imperialism. Let's thank bin Laden for his contribution to the world peace," another added.

China has about 100m registered internet users, most of whom are young people about 30 years or under.

Although the chat session does not offer a scientific sample of opinion in a country of 1.3bn people, the anti-western sentiment does dovetail with the strident nationalism that is a trademark of many young people.

Tony Blair, the British prime minister, was criticised in the chatrooms, as he has been in the Chinese press, for being too sycophantic to President George W. Bush.

Financial Times

[Chaz]

Well done Totster! Good work!

[Chaz]

What's that Chuchok? Hello......Chuchok......

[Chaz]

Oh well, looks like we've lost cocky Chuchok! Hey, Chuchok

[Pattaya_Fox]

They are entitled to their opinions. Who really cares?