Why Is It Hard To Buy Stuff That Should Be Easy?

[Ratsima]

Some examples:

The Caroline cheese company, located in Pak Chong, makes some very nice cheeses, including Mozzarella, Colby, Cheddar, Feta, etc. The only one of those available for sale, in Korat, is the Mozzarella, For the rest you have to go to Bangkok. Instead the local supermarkets want us to buy expensive imported cheese. (Caroline does not respond to either e-mail or a form on their web page. I've been told that they do not have a retail outlet at their factory.)

Avocados are grown in and around Korat, but they are never available for sale here. Instead Home Fresh Mart and Tesco/Lotus want us to buy expensive, small and dry avocados imported from Australia. There were some Royal Project avocados from up north sold here one year, but that has never been repeated.

Speaking of the Royal Project, they also offer some very nice Feta cheese. It was available at the Home Fresh Mart here in Korat for about a week. It sold out quickly. I guess it was too much trouble to keep in stock, so they stopped carrying it.

Lovely coffee is grown in several regions of Thailand and in neighboring Lao, but it is nearly impossible to buy whole roasted coffee beans here in Korat. A while back I bought a bag of beautiful dark roasted beans at an OTOP fair from a firm called "Coffee KhaoThalu" for only 100 baht per kilo. It's the best coffee I've had since moving here five years ago. But, it's not sold at the retail level here in Korat. The OTOP Five Star web site only offers the 3-in-1 instant coffee from KhaoThalu, not their roasted beans. KhaoThalu is in Chumpon. They don't respond to e-mail sent to the e-mail address on the bag of coffee I bought.

Corn is grown all over Korat, but the only corn meal I've ever seen sold in Thailand is imported from Europe.

Molasses is a byproduct of sugar refining. It is produced in great quantities in Korat, but not refined for human consumption. In order to get edible molasses I have to go to Bangkok and buy molasses imported from Australia.

And so it goes.

[nisakiman]

Sounds like a business opportunity to me...

[thepanicandthevomit]

Modern Life is Rubbish, innit.

[zzaa09]

On the contrary, Thai grown coffee whole roasted bean can be easily purchased directly from those more isolated regions that produce. The higher altitude areas of Petchabun, Mae Sot, Pai, Nan, et al where distinct Thai coffee is grown, one can find side-road outlets and markets where packaged whole roasted beans can are available. I suspect, as the Western world is just discovering the Thai varieties, that Thai grown coffee will become the next trendy and fashionable coffee du jour for those connoisseurs whom deem the month's exotic coffee-of-the-month-club......therefore creating a local market availability next to zilch, and reasonably more expensive than it should be.

[Ratsima]

On the contrary, Thai grown coffee whole roasted bean can be easily purchased directly from those more isolated regions that produce. The higher altitude areas of Petchabun, Mae Sot, Pai, Nan, et al where distinct Thai coffee is grown, one can find side-road outlets and markets where packaged whole roasted beans can are available.

Exactly my point. Why do you have to go "there" to get it? Why can't they market throughout the country. That's what OTOP ought to be doing.

[jackinbkk]

find a friend of the family who can send you a regular supply from Bangkok etc. Thats about the only solution for most of these things

[zzaa09]

On the contrary, Thai grown coffee whole roasted bean can be easily purchased directly from those more isolated regions that produce. The higher altitude areas of Petchabun, Mae Sot, Pai, Nan, et al where distinct Thai coffee is grown, one can find side-road outlets and markets where packaged whole roasted beans can are available.

Exactly my point. Why do you have to go "there" to get it? Why can't they market throughout the country. That's what OTOP ought to be doing.

OTOP is a bit of a farce, frankly. But, that's neither here nor there. My guess, as it pertains to Thai grown coffee, is that the growing overseas market is fast becoming a reality - leaving the local market behind. Not profitable at the local level.

[Thongkorn]

Sounds like a business opportunity to me...

I agree with that . any takers.

[Ratsima]

OTOP is a bit of a farce, frankly. But, that's neither here nor there. My guess, as it pertains to Thai grown coffee, is that the growing overseas market is fast becoming a reality - leaving the local market behind. Not profitable at the local level.

Well, then, what about cheese? Why is the cheese made in Korat not sold in Korat? Why is it only sold in Bangkok while the retailers in Korat sell cheese imported from Europe? Something's amiss here.

There is a market for cheese in Korat. Cheese is made in Korat. Why is Korat-made cheese not sold in Korat?

It defies logic.

Please don't answer this with yet another TIT.

[IMA_FARANG]

First of all this is not a rant and not a complaint. I'm just stating the facts. The reason why you can't buy those products locally is called "Capitalisim". The middlemen buy up the product from the local producers in batch. It is sent to factorys where it is "processed" and it's cost is doubled or tripled. In is then placed on sale in the high end stores, or often as in Thailand's case exported. At any rate when it is sold it is sold through the retail outlets owned or controlled/supplied by the factory owners. The profits go to the middlemen who buy from the local farmer producers or the factorys that do the "processing".

I saw this same pattern in Puerto Rico. Sugar Cane was a local crop. It was refined not in Puerto Rico, but back in the U.S. in large sugar mills by companies like Domino Sugar. You would think that as a producer of Sugar Cane, Puerto Rico would have low Sugar prices. In fact, the prices are among the highest in the U.S. Why? Because the sugar refiners charge extra to ship the refined sugar back to Puerto Rico...where it was originally grown. The refiners say that it is "not economically viable to open a refinerery in Puerto Rico as the market there is relatively small". So the Puerto Rican farmer, who grows the sugar cane, has to pay extra for refined sugar from the mailand U.S.

In regard to that cheese you spoke of....I'm sure if you look you can probably find a Thai company...or more likely a Thai/Chinese company....headquartered near Bangkok that will be selling that cheese abroad via the internet. The price will be high...but the farmers won't be gettting the benefit of that high price.

As I said at the beginning, this is not a rant or complaint. It's just stating the economic facts.

P.S. And for whoever said in one post "It sounds like a business oportunity", you're right. Do you have the capital and the energy to work and develop local marketing for Thai products. If so, go at it. It would be good for you and good for Thailand...but it would be a lot of work and a big struggle against the vested interests that will fight you all the way.

[zzaa09]

OTOP is a bit of a farce, frankly. But, that's neither here nor there. My guess, as it pertains to Thai grown coffee, is that the growing overseas market is fast becoming a reality - leaving the local market behind. Not profitable at the local level.

Well, then, what about cheese? Why is the cheese made in Korat not sold in Korat? Why is it only sold in Bangkok while the retailers in Korat sell cheese imported from Europe? Something's amiss here.

There is a market for cheese in Korat. Cheese is made in Korat. Why is Korat-made cheese not sold in Korat?

It defies logic.

Please don't answer this with yet another TIT.

Cheese, per se, is not taken as a food in Thailand. It's local manufacturing of these dairy products are almost exclusively produced for the incountry Farang market towards Western-type goods {private, restaurants, hotels, pubs, etc}. As to the contradictory in trading markets, an example might ask: why does New Zealand export their lovely apples to regions {off-season} that are rife with apple production already? And in turn, those same receivers of NZ apples, export their same product to NZ.

[thepanicandthevomit]

First of all this is not a rant and not a complaint. I'm just stating the facts. The reason why you can't buy those products locally is called "Capitalisim". The middlemen buy up the product from the local producers in batch. It is sent to factorys where it is "processed" and it's cost is doubled or tripled. In is then placed on sale in the high end stores, or often as in Thailand's case exported. At any rate when it is sold it is sold through the retail outlets owned or controlled/supplied by the factory owners. The profits go to the middlemen who buy from the local farmer producers or the factorys that do the "processing".

I saw this same pattern in Puerto Rico. Sugar Cane was a local crop. It was refined not in Puerto Rico, but back in the U.S. in large sugar mills by companies like Domino Sugar. You would think that as a producer of Sugar Cane, Puerto Rico would have low Sugar prices. In fact, the prices are among the highest in the U.S. Why? Because the sugar refiners charge extra to ship the refined sugar back to Puerto Rico...where it was originally grown. The refiners say that it is "not economically viable to open a refinerery in Puerto Rico as the market there is relatively small". So the Puerto Rican farmer, who grows the sugar cane, has to pay extra for refined sugar from the mailand U.S.

In regard to that cheese you spoke of....I'm sure if you look you can probably find a Thai company...or more likely a Thai/Chinese company....headquartered near Bangkok that will be selling that cheese abroad via the internet. The price will be high...but the farmers won't be gettting the benefit of that high price.

As I said at the beginning, this is not a rant or complaint. It's just stating the economic facts.

P.S. And for whoever said in one post "It sounds like a business oportunity", you're right. Do you have the capital and the energy to work and develop local marketing for Thai products. If so, go at it. It would be good for you and good for Thailand...but it would be a lot of work and a big struggle against the vested interests that will fight you all the way.

Excellent post but i still prefer my explanation.

[Peterbigeyes]

First of all this is not a rant and not a complaint. I'm just stating the facts. The reason why you can't buy those products locally is called "Capitalisim". The middlemen buy up the product from the local producers in batch. It is sent to factorys where it is "processed" and it's cost is doubled or tripled. In is then placed on sale in the high end stores, or often as in Thailand's case exported. At any rate when it is sold it is sold through the retail outlets owned or controlled/supplied by the factory owners. The profits go to the middlemen who buy from the local farmer producers or the factorys that do the "processing".

I saw this same pattern in Puerto Rico. Sugar Cane was a local crop. It was refined not in Puerto Rico, but back in the U.S. in large sugar mills by companies like Domino Sugar. You would think that as a producer of Sugar Cane, Puerto Rico would have low Sugar prices. In fact, the prices are among the highest in the U.S. Why? Because the sugar refiners charge extra to ship the refined sugar back to Puerto Rico...where it was originally grown. The refiners say that it is "not economically viable to open a refinerery in Puerto Rico as the market there is relatively small". So the Puerto Rican farmer, who grows the sugar cane, has to pay extra for refined sugar from the mailand U.S.

In regard to that cheese you spoke of....I'm sure if you look you can probably find a Thai company...or more likely a Thai/Chinese company....headquartered near Bangkok that will be selling that cheese abroad via the internet. The price will be high...but the farmers won't be gettting the benefit of that high price.

As I said at the beginning, this is not a rant or complaint. It's just stating the economic facts.

P.S. And for whoever said in one post "It sounds like a business oportunity", you're right. Do you have the capital and the energy to work and develop local marketing for Thai products. If so, go at it. It would be good for you and good for Thailand...but it would be a lot of work and a big struggle against the vested interests that will fight you all the way.

Nice. Now to translate this into Thai and spam the farms

[Chunky1]

it's probably not worth the headache to stock the local groceries with a couple of your products. those imported foods are all imported together. if a farm only makes cheeses and exports millions and millions of baht a year, why would they give a dam_n about keeping your Tesco grocery stocked?

[IanForbes]

Good post, Ratsima. I concure. And, it's easy to say... "Just start your own business" but most people are not in that trade, nor do they want to be. However, it is a common ailment all over the world. My brother (a Canadian) used to live in London, England. He went into a stationary store and bought some paper. Then, he asked the clerk if they had pens and pencils. The clerk replied in a haughty tone..."We don't sell pens, sir, we only sell paper." My brother replied that wouldn't it make sense to also supply pens and pencils if you were also selling paper,

[bifftastic]

My brother (a Canadian) used to live in London, England. He went into a stationary store and bought some paper. Then, he asked the clerk if they had pens and pencils. The clerk replied in a haughty tone..."We don't sell pens, sir, we only sell paper." My brother replied that wouldn't it make sense to also supply pens and pencils if you were also selling paper,

When was that then? A hundred years ago when everyone had a horse and the fog drifted in off the river?

[thepanicandthevomit]

Good post, Ratsima. I concure. And, it's easy to say... "Just start your own business" but most people are not in that trade, nor do they want to be. However, it is a common ailment all over the world. My brother (a Canadian) used to live in London, England. He went into a stationary store and bought some paper. Then, he asked the clerk if they had pens and pencils. The clerk replied in a haughty tone..."We don't sell pens, sir, we only sell paper." My brother replied that wouldn't it make sense to also supply pens and pencils if you were also selling paper,

I strongly suspect he was taking the piss. More pedantically, a 'stationary' store is one that is not moving; it's stationery.

[Jingthing]

OP, you are so right. The same kind of problem in expat swamped Pattaya. Caroline cheese products? Only available at one store I know about it Pattaya -- Foodland, the others don't have it and offer the much higher imported price alternatives. Fresh roasted hill tribe coffee beans whole? Haven't found anywhere in Pattaya. (Bangkok and CM yes.) I could go on.

[Ratsima]

I'm not so sure it's about capitalism. Although it might be about horribly inefficient capitalism.

As evidenced by the vast array of imported cheeses carried by Home Fresh Mart, Tesco, Makro and Big C in Korat, there is a market for cheese here.

As evidenced by their classified ad here on ThaiVisa, Caroline Cheese Classified Ad, and their web site, Caroline Cheese Web Site, Caroline Cheese does want to sell their products locally. It's just that somehow they've completely overlooked a large market in their own backyard.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Ratsima

[zzaa09]

All this angst over cheese that might or might not be available. A great percentage of Western food favourites and delicacies are usually not found or are difficult to find throughout Asia. It's the way it is - they don't eat like you. If one insist to partake in these certain foods, one needs to be where they might be easily found, in particular quality and quantity.

[Ratsima]

You're missing the point zzaa09. It's not that cheese is not available. It is available and easily found. The point is that the cheese made 60K down the highway is not available. The cheese that is available is imported from half way around the world.

[zzaa09]

You're missing the point zzaa09. It's not that cheese is not available. It is available and easily found. The point is that the cheese made 60K down the highway is not available. The cheese that is available is imported from half way around the world.

Are you familiar with how the contradictory manner in which modern and wacky world trade works today? This is very common in numerous locales worldwide. Something made locally, but isn't accessible - the locals get the same product from elsewhere, while their lovely product goes to it's counter-part.

[Ratsima]

Are you familiar with how the contradictory manner in which modern and wacky world trade works today? This is very common in numerous locales worldwide. Something made locally, but isn't accessible - the locals get the same product from elsewhere, while their lovely product goes to it's counter-part.

Of course I am. That was the point of the OP; to demonstrate what a whacky world it is.

[sillyman99]

I want some Tinned New Potatoes in Pattaya, can never find them, sure they would do well.

[Ratsima]

You still don't get it. I'm not asking for stuff that's not made in Thailand. I just want to be able to buy stuff that is produced here.

Here's another example. About 30K down the road from where I live is a massive Seagate factory that produces hard disk drives. It employees about 7000 people. But, you can't buy a hard drive made in Thailand in Thailand. All the drives made in Thailand are exported to Europe and North America. The Seagate hard drives that are sold in Thailand are produced outside of Thailand.

It's nuts.

[zzaa09]

You still don't get it. I'm not asking for stuff that's not made in Thailand. I just want to be able to buy stuff that is produced here.

Here's another example. About 30K down the road from where I live is a massive Seagate factory that produces hard disk drives. It employees about 7000 people. But, you can't buy a hard drive made in Thailand in Thailand. All the drives made in Thailand are exported to Europe and North America. The Seagate hard drives that are sold in Thailand are produced outside of Thailand.

It's nuts.

Seeking items that are produced in Thailand? Go to any open community marketplace - tonnes upon tonnes of locally produced entities. The variety and diversity is astounding.

[gregb]

You still don't get it. I'm not asking for stuff that's not made in Thailand. I just want to be able to buy stuff that is produced here.

Here's another example. About 30K down the road from where I live is a massive Seagate factory that produces hard disk drives. It employees about 7000 people. But, you can't buy a hard drive made in Thailand in Thailand. All the drives made in Thailand are exported to Europe and North America. The Seagate hard drives that are sold in Thailand are produced outside of Thailand.

It's nuts.

OK. That one I understand. It is because the government won't let them import the components VAT free if they sell anything at all to the local market. This is a case where government tax policies are the culprit. So they must produce strictly for the export market or not produce here at all. Meanwhile, your finished products need to be imported and VAT paid appropriately.

The same case is clearly not true with cheese though. No idea why the factory wouldn't want to set up a retail outlet at the factory. I would guess they do all the packaging already, so why not take the opportunity to sell a few at retail prices?

Actually, they might set up a retail shop if you took a group of 100 farangs and blocked the highway out front until they acquiesced to your demands. That is the Thai way to solve problems.

Edited August 7, 2010 by gregb

[zzaa09]

You still don't get it. I'm not asking for stuff that's not made in Thailand. I just want to be able to buy stuff that is produced here.

Here's another example. About 30K down the road from where I live is a massive Seagate factory that produces hard disk drives. It employees about 7000 people. But, you can't buy a hard drive made in Thailand in Thailand. All the drives made in Thailand are exported to Europe and North America. The Seagate hard drives that are sold in Thailand are produced outside of Thailand.

It's nuts.

OK. That one I understand. It is because the government won't let them import the components VAT free if they sell anything at all to the local market. This is a case where government tax policies are the culprit. So they must produce strictly for the export market or not produce here at all. Meanwhile, your finished products need to be imported and VAT paid appropriately.

The same case is clearly not true with cheese though. No idea why the factory wouldn't want to set up a retail outlet at the factory. I would guess they do all the packaging already, so why not take the opportunity to sell a few at retail prices?

Actually, they might set up a retail shop if you took a group of 100 farangs and blocked the highway out front until they acquiesced to your demands. That is the Thai way to solve problems.

Only 100 Farang?

[gregb]

You still don't get it. I'm not asking for stuff that's not made in Thailand. I just want to be able to buy stuff that is produced here.

Here's another example. About 30K down the road from where I live is a massive Seagate factory that produces hard disk drives. It employees about 7000 people. But, you can't buy a hard drive made in Thailand in Thailand. All the drives made in Thailand are exported to Europe and North America. The Seagate hard drives that are sold in Thailand are produced outside of Thailand.

It's nuts.

OK. That one I understand. It is because the government won't let them import the components VAT free if they sell anything at all to the local market. This is a case where government tax policies are the culprit. So they must produce strictly for the export market or not produce here at all. Meanwhile, your finished products need to be imported and VAT paid appropriately.

The same case is clearly not true with cheese though. No idea why the factory wouldn't want to set up a retail outlet at the factory. I would guess they do all the packaging already, so why not take the opportunity to sell a few at retail prices?

Actually, they might set up a retail shop if you took a group of 100 farangs and blocked the highway out front until they acquiesced to your demands. That is the Thai way to solve problems.

Only 100 Farang?

Farangs are alot bigger than Thais. Each farang should easily count for at least 3 small Thai farmers, and I've seen alot of Thai protests in the 300 - 500 range.

I think 100 or so 100+ kg farangs strung out across Mitthapharp highway could easily bring traffic to a standstill.

Hey, how important is your cheese to you?

[crazygreg44]

OP, you are so right. The same kind of problem in expat swamped Pattaya. Caroline cheese products? Only available at one store I know about it Pattaya -- Foodland, the others don't have it and offer the much higher imported price alternatives. Fresh roasted hill tribe coffee beans whole? Haven't found anywhere in Pattaya. (Bangkok and CM yes.) I could go on.

No DOITUNG coffee beans at Tesco Lotus Pattaya ? ( always at the BOTTOM of the shelf ! )