Many Thai Red Shirts Abandoned By Their Leaders: Human Rights Activist

[webfact]

Many red shirts 'abandoned' by their leaders: human rights activist

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation on Sunday

Dozens of impoverished red shirts detained since the May 19 dispersal of the red shirts' protest have been "virtually abandoned" with no visitors and some without defence lawyers, revealed Nitirat Sapsoomboon, a member of the National Human Rights Commission's subcommittee on citizen and political rights.

At least 10 of them are women and Nitirat said red-shirt leaders and members should visit them and afford them with legal assistance.

"They should first get them lawyers. They should visit them," said Nitirat, adding that people may accuse him of slandering red shirts because he was formerly an active yellow-shirt member but he believes there exists a double standard as detained red-shirt leaders have received a lot of support but many ordinary red shirts do not.

"I think the disparity exists. I understand that there may be some disparity. But this is too much. Providing moral support to those who fought along with you needs to be consistent."

One tragic case discovered by the subcommittee, said Nitirat, is a couple who are both detained while their children are really suffering as a consequence. Another received a visit by a red-shirt lawyer only once so far.

"It's like they have been abandoned. Especially those 100 people or so in provinces like Ubon Ratchathani, Udon Thani, Khon Kaen and Mukdahan. Whether these people are guilty or not they deserve due process of the law. Some are elderly people or suffering from tumours. These people deserve lawyers and the right to bail'. Otherwise it would lead to more hatred on their part. If the judicial system cannot be relied upon then don't even think about how we can achieve reconciliation," he said, adding some received no visits from their relatives while one couldn't even afford a sleeping gown.

Nitirat admitted that the situation in the northern region was better than in the northeast. He criticised the case in Mukdahan, where 16 red shirts were badly beaten up and kept in a mobile detention vehicle for two days until their blood dried up and the local soldiers could bear the sight of these injured people no longer. In Bangkok, at least one person was believed to have been lynched by soldier. A construction worker was beaten up and arrested while sleeping in his construction compound near the protest site in Bangkok simply because he possessed a Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) ID card and some weapons. "This is too much!"

The subcommittee recently signed an memorandum of understanding with the Law Society of Thailand to provide legal assistance to poor red shirts who have no legal representative.

Admitting that many detained red shirts are not looked after, key red shirt member Sombat Boon-ngam-anong, who is in touch with Nitirat, said the red-shirt movement is too disorganised and in too much disarray to handle the matter.

"There is no single organ handling the matter directly."

Sombat said he would try to gather other red shirts to visit these nameless ordinary red shirts in jail soon. He said it was futile to expect the Pheu Thai Party to help. Sombat doubts the willing of the Law Society of Thailand to assist red shirts, adding that they have a well-documented history of being biased against red shirts.

In a related development, Sombat yesterday staged a symbolic protest by tying a red banner at the City Tower Clock of Chiang Rai province in order to denounce the authorities' harassment against five students who earlier staged a protest against the emergency decree in Chiang Rai.

One of the five students is just 16 years old. He was forced to have a mental check-up at a mental hospital by the authorities.

"This is a severe violation of political rights," Sombat told The Nation. "Millions of people are against this law, including Anand Panyarachun, chairman of the Committee on National Reform. Does this mean millions of Thais are crazy?"

-- The Nation 2010-08-08

[rogerman]

Basically..... Yes it does mean millions of Thais are crazy

Drivers of Fortuners, Mercedes, Volvo

Rich people with their noses stuck up in the clouds.

and many more including red and yellow shirt protesters

[jackdawson]

i hope the 500 baht a day was worth it

[SomTumTiger]

Im glad that Thaksin had these people to do his dirty work, and now they can see that when the going got tough, he dropped them like a hot iron. The man is gonna reap the whirlwind when his karma comes calling.

[chainarong]

What can U do , you are damned if you do and damned if you don't ,if you need to have go , do it constructively, all that money spent on protests should have been spent on a slick election campaign, keep it clean and hey presto Bobs your uncle , no forethought, no pre planning, no brains, talk about being taken for a ride , no Tuk Tuk needed.

[SomTumTiger]

What can U do , you are damned if you do and damned if you don't ,if you need to have go , do it constructively, all that money spent on protests should have been spent on a slick election campaign, keep it clean and hey presto Bobs your uncle , no forethought, no pre planning, no brains, talk about being taken for a ride , no Tuk Tuk needed.

You could throw in a period (.) ever now and then, just for kicks :jap:.

[otherstuff1957]

This is an interesting article, if it is accurate. First of all, it's the first mention of beatings and a possible lynching that I've seen in mainstream Thai media. Secondly, I wonder about the stated disarray and disorganization of the Red Shirts that is mentioned... I can't help but think that this is probably the result of the 83 frozen bank accounts of Thaksin's friends and family. Even though the majority of those accounts are being or have been unfrozen, I suspect that the PooYai are unwilling to "throw good money after bad" and may consider the Red struggle to be over, at least for the time being. If this is the case, I'm not surprised at the cannon fodder being abandoned.

Although it would be nice to see a genuine political movement dedicated to social equality, free speech and justice, I just don't see the Red Shirts as being convincing in that role. While those were certainly the aims of many of the more thoughtful and articulate of the mid- and lower ranking members of the Red Shirt movement, this article exposes the higher ranking members as being the mercenary hypocrites that I've always suspected that they were.

[jayjay0]

I for one am fed up with hearing about there rights. I have yet to see one human rights organization or person talk about the rights of there victims.

[warfie]

i hope the 500 baht a day was worth it

if they even received it...

[scorecard]

This is an interesting article, if it is accurate. First of all, it's the first mention of beatings and a possible lynching that I've seen in mainstream Thai media. Secondly, I wonder about the stated disarray and disorganization of the Red Shirts that is mentioned... I can't help but think that this is probably the result of the 83 frozen bank accounts of Thaksin's friends and family. Even though the majority of those accounts are being or have been unfrozen, I suspect that the PooYai are unwilling to "throw good money after bad" and may consider the Red struggle to be over, at least for the time being. If this is the case, I'm not surprised at the cannon fodder being abandoned.

Although it would be nice to see a genuine political movement dedicated to social equality, free speech and justice, I just don't see the Red Shirts as being convincing in that role. While those were certainly the aims of many of the more thoughtful and articulate of the mid- and lower ranking members of the Red Shirt movement, this article exposes the higher ranking members as being the mercenary hypocrites that I've always suspected that they were.

I agree with many of your points.

YES there is a need to urgently reduce the gap, raise the basic standard of living, policies which generate more opprtunites, equal justice etc.

However the red shirts/UDD are not a credibe force to generate real discusionor action. None of the red shirt leaders have even given a detailed presentation to their (paid) followers about democracy etc etc. None of their leaders have evenb taken part in a moderated debate, etc etc etc. They are nothing more than ruthless no morals low life who would do anything, use anybody as needed to get a big personal payout. It's well established that their leaders are on a 100million BAht payout (each) if they can reinstall the paymaster.

Why, because they are simply a smokescreen (and not a very good one) for their paymaster. Their claims of 'no double standards' etc are a total farce, they claim they want equal justice but then say they want their convisted leader pardoned simply because he is their paymaster, not even offering any valid/detailed legal argument.

In regard to their jailed followers NOT being helped by the Puea Thai members, what else do you expect?

The vast majority of PT people have never made and form of presentation to anybody, just joined the thaksin gravy train for the spoils.

My son recently asked the red shirt food vendors in our soi whats happening next with their protests, they confirmed that they have no idea who now leads the red shirts, and have never heard from anybody after their mob protests failed here in Bkk.

[tigerbalm]

How many of these people who have been (allegedly) denied their human rights have been found guilty and have had the appropriate sentences passed down ?.

[jfchandler]

DITTO....

Although it would be nice to see a genuine political movement dedicated to social equality, free speech and justice, I just don't see the Red Shirts as being convincing in that role. While those were certainly the aims of many [i'd argue SOME, not many] of the more thoughtful and articulate of the mid- and lower ranking members of the Red Shirt movement, this article exposes the higher ranking members as being the mercenary hypocrites that I've always suspected that they were.

[march]

It's very telling that the PTP and UDD have not helped these lower level Reds, yet sent their Red Lawyer Battalion to help the Red Bomber couple who tried to destroy the Bhum Jai Thai Party headquarters.

Perhaps if these lesser Reds had been more forthright in their violent actions, such as blowing up an opposing political party home-base, then they now would be receiving Red help from the Rich Reds.

Something along the line of,

"Yes, you did burn down Udon Thani Provincial Hall and we thank you for that, but gosh darn, that hardly got much international news coverage and so is quite far down on our priority list for assistance. Now if say you had gone and burned down Siriraj Hospital , (as directed to by red leader Arisman in the youtube video), we would surely help out with getting you bail now as that would have drawn lots of attention."

Edited August 8, 2010 by march

[scorecard]

This is an interesting article, if it is accurate. First of all, it's the first mention of beatings and a possible lynching that I've seen in mainstream Thai media. Secondly, I wonder about the stated disarray and disorganization of the Red Shirts that is mentioned... I can't help but think that this is probably the result of the 83 frozen bank accounts of Thaksin's friends and family. Even though the majority of those accounts are being or have been unfrozen, I suspect that the PooYai are unwilling to "throw good money after bad" and may consider the Red struggle to be over, at least for the time being. If this is the case, I'm not surprised at the cannon fodder being abandoned.

Although it would be nice to see a genuine political movement dedicated to social equality, free speech and justice, I just don't see the Red Shirts as being convincing in that role. While those were certainly the aims of many of the more thoughtful and articulate of the mid- and lower ranking members of the Red Shirt movement, this article exposes the higher ranking members as being the mercenary hypocrites that I've always suspected that they were.

I agree with many of your points.

YES there is a need to urgently reduce the gap, raise the basic standard of living, policies which solidly generate more opprtunites, equal justice etc.

However the red shirts/UDD are not a credibe force to generate real discusion or action.

None of the red shirt leaders have even given a detailed presentation to their (paid) followers about the meaning of democracy / building democracy / protecting democrcay, etc etc. None of their leaders have even taken part in a moderated debate, etc etc etc. During their months on on-stage hate presntation they never once handed out meaningul/insightful literature.

They are nothing more than ruthless no morals low life who would do anything / use anybody as needed to get a big personal payout. It's well established that the red leaders are on a 100million Baht payout (each) if they can reinstall the paymaster.

They are simply a smokescreen (and not a very good one) for their paymaster. Their claims of 'no double standards' etc are a total farce, they claim they want equal justice for all, but then say they want their convicted massively corrupt leaders, who should be before the courts in the Hague for massive human reights abuses) pardoned simply because he is their paymaster, not even offering any valid/detailed logical and specific legal argument.

In regard to their jailed followers NOT being helped by the Puea Thai members, what else do you expect?

The vast majority of PT people have never made any form of presentation to anybody and in reality most of them are incapable of insightful comment, or contributing to the development of policies which would generate solid and meanginful change to address the problems and inequities in Thai society etc., and the sad final point is that they are not remotely interested, they just joined the thaksin gravy train for the spoils.

My adult Thai son recently asked the red shirt food vendors in our soi whats happening next with their protests, they confirmed that they have no idea who now leads the red shirts, and have never heard from anybody after their mob protests failed here in Bkk.

On numerous occasions, during the red protests, my son asked if they had any literature, they had nothing whatever, and they all freely admittedd numerous times that they atteneded every day for the payout, and often didn't even understand what the speeches were about, and confirmed that many of the live speeches were the same hate messages again and again.

My son asked 'why do the red leaders keep playing the doctored audio tape'? Their responc 'it's not dosctored it's real because jatuporn says it's not doctored. Deliberate lies and manipulation of fellow Thais, how despicable is that?

Also disturbing is that my son carefully asked several times what 'democracy' means. Their answer 'thaksin is democracy', my son quickly realized that they have been brainwashed to believe that the English word 'democracy' means sometimes like savior (thaksin is democracy (our savior)).

Quote: "...While those were certainly the aims of many of the more thoughtful and articulate of the mid- and lower ranking members of the Red Shirt movement, this article exposes the higher ranking members as being the mercenary hypocrites that I've always suspected that they were. ....". Whats also telling is that the few who are genuine and are capable of meaningfull and detailed (and non-violent) discussion, were very deliberately ignored by the scaly leaders.

[BlackJack]

fodder

[geriatrickid]

It would be a nice change if people did not allow their personal bias and prejudice to influence their comments.

Just who is the person making the allegation? How did he get his job on this sub committee?

Has anyone bothered to read the CVs of the Commissioners of the NHRC? Look at the past work experience. Is it appropriate that all members have an existing relationship with the ruling elite?

Why is a serving police General a commissioner?

And now for the fellow making the allegation. Is the allegation made out of concern for the people or because it is a part of the ongoing strategy to undermine the "reds"?

Read the CVs, do the digging and come back and tell me this was a legitimate and well founded comment.

If you need a hint go to the website.

[animatic]

Shows up the Red 'Financial Arm' and 'Mid Level Leaders'

for the pathetic, fair weather leaders, and users of their fellow man for profits,

that they really are.

And is anyone very surprised by this? Not I. Not in the least.

Fodder on the field of protest, turned battlefield and now fodder in the

PR war to brand the government as evil, for a new reason.

If they send lawyers and bail the little fish out, the government might look reasonable,

and PTP Reds wouldn't have one more weapon to hammer at them with.

Use them yet again but this time at no cost to PTP or the Red Coffers.

The politics of amorality at it's lowest.

------------------------------------------------------

Scorecard, a very interesting observation about the low level reds mis comprehension

of what 'democracy' actually means no doubt a deliberate twisting of the word,

so that it is repeated in many forms, by people meaning something quite different in their minds.

Double Speak if ever there was a glaring instance.

Edited August 8, 2010 by animatic

[rubl]

How many of these people who have been (allegedly) denied their human rights have been found guilty and have had the appropriate sentences passed down ?.

I'm also wondering about this. With the UDD leaders it has been made clear they needed to be charged, or freed as time run out. How about these others? I cannot help but feel somewhat sorry for them. Having been brainwashed with months of PTV, fought for 'democrazy' and now ignored as not important. Time to read 'Animal Farm' again.

[gemini81]

I for one am fed up with hearing about there rights. I have yet to see one human rights organization or person talk about the rights of there victims.

me too!! people who deliberately break the law lose rights, yet they only think of all these "rights" concepts once they've broken the law. ironic how that works.

[granuaile]

I feel sorry for these people, the ones that were manipulated and used by Thaksin and his cronies.... Just my thought,.... unless they face really serious charges the authorities should allow them to admit their culpability and release them. After all they turned that British fellow lose, after time already served, and he was recorded making threats and was present at one arson (making him imho an accessory to attempted murder). Maybe it would not change the minds of these individuals but it would be a good move for the government publicity wise.

[tigermonkey]

I am appalled by the responses that I see here. Most of the commentary is concerned only with red bashing and cynicism. These are human beings with lives and families, who are being held without charges or due process for the most part.

Is there no concern about their sufffering, their family suffering, their dignity ? -- or even their actual life itself ? Granted, many may be guilty of doing wrong, or following the wrong path towards their goals -- we do not know if most are guilty of any wrong-doing.

The red 'organization' has abandoned them ( if it was ever capable of helping them ), but the government is completely culpable here also --- they have incarcerated these people without any concern for their welfare, and abandoned them.

I have not seen one offer of help or visits from the posters here -- nor even any sympathy for their plight -- no concern whatever -- only bashing and accusations -- I remind you that these people, although Thai, are your brothers and sisters in this country . We do not know their guilt or inncocence -- we only know their suffering.

This looks more and more like Myanmar every day.

[tigermonkey]

I for one am fed up with hearing about there rights. I have yet to see one human rights organization or person talk about the rights of there victims.

me too!! people who deliberately break the law lose rights, yet they only think of all these "rights" concepts once they've broken the law. ironic how that works.

One of the 'rights' in any civilized country is the right to timely due process, and the right to your day in court to prove your innocence or guilt..

These people are not getting this ' right ' .

Might I remind you, that if someone in a position of influence had accused you of involvement -- you would also be rotting in jail now. Think about it !

Edited August 8, 2010 by tigermonkey

[tigerbalm]

I for one am fed up with hearing about there rights. I have yet to see one human rights organization or person talk about the rights of there victims.

me too!! people who deliberately break the law lose rights, yet they only think of all these "rights" concepts once they've broken the law. ironic how that works.

And what rights should any one loose before they have been sentenced let alone found guilty?

[OzMick]

I love the reds; they are such a great source of entertainment with their double standards and lack of logical progression.

"A construction worker was beaten up and arrested while sleeping in his construction compound near the protest site in Bangkok simply because he possessed a Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) ID card and some weapons. " (NB - my emphasis.) This sounds like a pretty good circumstantial evidence case to me.

"Sombat doubts the willing of the Law Society of Thailand to assist red shirts, adding that they have a well-documented history of being biased against red shirts." This, even though "The subcommittee recently signed an memorandum of understanding with the Law Society of Thailand to provide legal assistance to poor red shirts .........." But "He said it was futile to expect the Pheu Thai Party to help."

Aren't we talking about different arms of the same organization? At the very least they have political goals in common, and interconnected funding sources. Didn't a red just run as a PTP candidate?

"Does this mean millions of Thais are crazy?" to answer this question would require a "mental examination" which he also opposes. He probably expects the results to be the same in both cases, sane but terminally stupid.

Edited August 8, 2010 by OzMick

[souvenirdeparis]

when a group of people resist arrest , they can't complain the police hard-truncheon them , especially if they have iron bars etc in hand or have just thrown petrol bottles at said police .

then if they are released after two days when the ya ba wears off, they are lucky.

-good of the police to provide a disturbed youth with a specialist's assistance ; in any case he didn't get his lobes cut off or an electro-shock , did he ?

I feel embarassed to admit it, but these so called human rights violation are exactly what I long our police to do here in France with our own brand of violent rioters (instead of a formal slap on the hand); but here we have "human rights ONGs " by the dozen for any kind of perps ; even once-respected Amnesty International now keeps on yelping no end every time the police start looking for who shot at them during the last riot.

Lots of reds in jail ? fine , the others will think twice about listening to the leaders next time .

[animatic]

If they didn't place themselves in the situation to be arrested, they wouldn't have been arrested.

All reds are not arrested are they? no. So to say these people who by their sheer numbers have

bogged down the system to process them, are suddenly unculpable as well as the Red Organization

that essentially put them in the wrong places and now apparently abandoned them,

YOu can't say it's just the system itself and not the individuals and their leaders that caused the problems for them.

[DP25]

Of course they were abandoned, they were paid to riot, burn buildings, and kill civilians and soldiers, all in the name of getting back Thaksin's money, a pardon, and enriching his cleptocrats. They did what they were told, and now their job is to be in prison and to be used as political propaganda.

[OzMick]

I am appalled by the responses that I see here. Most of the commentary is concerned only with red bashing and cynicism. These are human beings with lives and families, who are being held without charges or due process for the most part.

Is there no concern about their sufffering, their family suffering, their dignity ? -- or even their actual life itself ? Granted, many may be guilty of doing wrong, or following the wrong path towards their goals -- we do not know if most are guilty of any wrong-doing.

The red 'organization' has abandoned them ( if it was ever capable of helping them ), but the government is completely culpable here also --- they have incarcerated these people without any concern for their welfare, and abandoned them.

I have not seen one offer of help or visits from the posters here -- nor even any sympathy for their plight -- no concern whatever -- only bashing and accusations -- I remind you that these people, although Thai, are your brothers and sisters in this country . We do not know their guilt or inncocence -- we only know their suffering.

This looks more and more like Myanmar every day.

Thailand looks nothing like Myanmar. Most of those arrested on minor charges (attendance) were released immediately. The people in custody are undergoing due process and are being offered pro bono assistance by theThai Law Society. The fact that there is a large number will make the process slow, BUT the govt is NOT culpable in the least. They have incarcerated people against whom they believe they have a provable case of serious wrong-doing. If there is hardship caused by the arrest, the offender should have considered that before committing the crime. If you can't do the time...........................

It is not up to us to judge their guilt or innocence. As for suffering, I feel much more sympathy for the people affected by the actions of these people.

[otherstuff1957]

The red 'organization' has abandoned them ( if it was ever capable of helping them ),

Did you ever visit Ratchaprasong during the Red occupation? It was a very well organized and obviously well funded event. Even if most of the people there were donating their time free of charge, the sound systems, food, lights, stage, banners, vehicles, etc.. all showed that the Red movement had plenty of money and resources. So, now that their people are suffering, where is the money? Where are the resources? A score of lawyers could be hired for the cost of one day of the protest.

I can't see that the Red movement is incapable of helping their own unless all of the money for the protests did indeed come from Dubai.

[chainarong]

What can U do , you are damned if you do and damned if you don't ,if you need to have go , do it constructively, all that money spent on protests should have been spent on a slick election campaign, keep it clean and hey presto Bobs your uncle , no forethought, no pre planning, no brains, talk about being taken for a ride , no Tuk Tuk needed.

You could throw in a period (.) ever now and then, just for kicks :jap:.

yeah , Iknow , I love Thailand and it's people, just hate to see the direction it's going, slowly down the drain.