Thai Police Arrest Two Germans For Internet Banking Theft

[relentless]

What a way to start life in your twenties?

Have they actually tried and failed at something legit before this?

Or they could just be on commission just for withdrawing the cash, now left cold holding the baby, while the repeat offenders are on their yacht somewhere on the Indian ocean.

Certain they will enjoy all that the Thai prisons have to offer. A grand setting just perfect for those two.

[hjvdhoef]

These boys are only the small bites.The big fishes are in Russia with maybe Thai ladies and Russia vodka.

[Asianrider]

I didn't know the army paid that well!

that was my thought too

maybe send them to an Army prison for a long holiday

[personchester]

How interesting. Either they hack or they facilitate. If it is a perceived Russian gang it is not really sensible that they were hackers. They might have been recruiting entertainers in order to use their bank accounts. Still the problem is a Thai Bank problem. No where else you see this weak security and old fashioned behaviour, except maybe for in the US where the banking industry is a mess too.

Passcodes of 4 digits always starting with 25 as they always seem to be related to the date of birth. In internet banking static security based on very old tan lists systems are used. So in a matter of fact it is just bad luck for the chaps but a typical case of som nam naa for the banks. maybe a wake up call to do something about it. The number of times that people become a victim of skimming must be uncountable. The banks give all foreigners the finger when they go there. I doubt if ordinary Thai people get a better treatment.

You mention "finger" in the last line, are you refering to the Winston Churchill V sign, or the Harvey Smith finger salute ...

Edited August 9, 2010 by personchester

[moskito]

Good to know they catch some of these scumbags. But brings up another question. How safe is my Bank account in Thailand, specially when using online banking?

[balo]

Why didnt they try to hide themselves from the surveillance cameras?

If you have some brain its easy to use sunglasses and caps to hide yourself.

Looks like they figured that out too late:

[BlackJack]

Why didnt they try to hide themselves from the surveillance cameras?

If you have some brain its easy to use sunglasses and caps to hide yourself.

Looks like they figured that out too late:

Another WARNING

my skype account was hacked and 200 pounds later i found out

do not have your account details online with SKYPE as they will not reimburse you for lost or hacked accounts

you have been warned

[HampiK]

OTP works great when u are in Thailand, NOT when u are offshore with NO chance of getting a signal roaming or otherwise... Why dont they use the little token devices that will give you a code like many other banks. What does Bangkok Bank use?

But in most countries the roaming works. I use this OTP back home as well. I use Happy DTAC. But i had to do a manual search for the provider, because the automatic search will maybe give you a wrong provider, which has no support for roaming with your Thai provider.

On Automatic i had never a connection "Emergency only", then i put it to manual and search for the supported phone-provider. And now everything works. So i hope you have the same problem and can be solved...

[silk]

cold holding the baby. it sounds like they were caught because the bank accounts transferred to were real people. had they used fake accounts in the middle of nowhere..

why don't you enlighten other criminals how to do it correctly??

wow thanks for the tip mate!!

[silk]

I didn't know the army paid that well!

Who said it was her life savings?

It doesn't seem they are that bright, if they got caught and stole from the army or the police in Thailand, where is the honor?

"life savings" we do not know how many years the victim saved the money

[sirchai]

These boys are only the small bites.The big fishes are in Russia with maybe Thai ladies and Russia vodka.

I guess they did it for somebody and I don't think the Russian mafia. They caught some little boys, but the big business will go on.....

[personchester]

Good to know they catch some of these scumbags. But brings up another question. How safe is my Bank account in Thailand, specially when using online banking?

There is of course an opening code and a password (all private to you) to get started, in addition make sure the PC has a strong multi purpose virus protection system in place which must include an effective firewall that protects all internet activities.

Moreover, have your PC set up for automatic updates, so that you get the latest protective devices installed as soon as they become available.

In addition to technical protection, also go for a banking protection, that is to say that any transfer from your A/c can only be made to a nominated A/c (nominated by you) therefore no transfers can be made to an A/c other that the selected nominated A/c.

Thus any hakker who has gained access to your online banking site can make no transfers for his own benefit, and will exit the site, however, if he carries on with it, then the transfer will go automatic to your nominated A/c which is secret (not shown online) and only known to the bank. Thus online banking can be safe even when infiltrated by outsiders..

[march]

Something tells me that when they actually get to experience Thai prison life, they won't be nearly so cocky as during their arrest:

A plainclothes policeman (center) escorts German nationals Dave Ackermann (left), 23, and Dominik Lacono, 22, before a news conference at the Thai Police Crime Suppression Division in Bangkok August 9, 2010.

German national Dave Ackermann, 23, attends a news conference at the Thai Police Crime Suppression Division in Bangkok August 9, 2010.

German national Dominik Lacono, 22, attends a news conference at the Thai Police Crime Suppression Division in Bangkok August 9, 2010.

(photos and captions by Reuters)

[pavlik]

No doubt they will get off very lightly, as seems to be the way of things in Thailand.. Punishment rarely fits the crime!

Are you talking from personal experience? What crime did you commit in Thailand and what insufficient punishment did you get?

He is right in a way. Crimes like this are rarely considered as a 'robbery'. More often it is a 'fraud' which is much lighter crime.

[imaderbyfan]

No doubt they will get off very lightly, as seems to be the way of things in Thailand.. Punishment rarely fits the crime!

Are you talking from personal experience? What crime did you commit in Thailand and what insufficient punishment did you get?

He is right in a way. Crimes like this are rarely considered as a 'robbery'. More often it is a 'fraud' which is much lighter crime.

[imaderbyfan]

Oh no.

and I thought pattaya was such a quite place.

Are there really foreign criminals there?

I am truly shocked.

[Thaddeus]

I see the speculation truck is still making regular deliveries.

[overhaul38]

I wonder if anyone else has been hacked. Military service must be well paying.

[kolohe]

Also to make sure you're secure in addition to the steps above:

1. Do not do any secure transactions or enter any vital information from an internet cafe, always use your own PC.

2. Even when you're on your own computer, do NOT do anything compromising on wifi connections unless it is yours and its encrypted. Be very wary of public wifi spots. Any 15 year old can set up a "free wifi hotspot" or even spoof a legitimate hotspot and trick you into thinking you're on a safe network connection. If you HAVE to enter personal information or make a secure transaction on a wifi network that is not your own, learn to use a VPN or SSH tunnel.

3. When considering your online security, not logging into your bank account is obvious. Also keep in mind that you don't want to enter any other personal information that could be used to build a profile on you and eventually used to rip you off.

[psyclonB]

I wonder how much it cost to have the shades and hats on....

[ryladie99]

What a way to start life in your twenties?

Have they actually tried and failed at something legit before this?

Or they could just be on commission just for withdrawing the cash, now left cold holding the baby, while the repeat offenders are on their yacht somewhere on the Indian ocean.

Love your post and it is very very serious crime in 21 TH century...more to come especially from Russia gangs. America has her own problem as well...Good job for the Thai Policemen. I hope the Thai will do more to get rid of those outlaws..America does her jobs but, the Insurance companies will foot the bills and the Policemen will not do as much as the Thai...

I am so happy after reading this article....thanks for posting.

[Brian67]

Something tells me that when they actually get to experience Thai prison life, they won't be nearly so cocky as during their arrest:

A plainclothes policeman (center) escorts German nationals Dave Ackermann (left), 23, and Dominik Lacono, 22, before a news conference at the Thai Police Crime Suppression Division in Bangkok August 9, 2010.

German national Dave Ackermann, 23, attends a news conference at the Thai Police Crime Suppression Division in Bangkok August 9, 2010.

German national Dominik Lacono, 22, attends a news conference at the Thai Police Crime Suppression Division in Bangkok August 9, 2010.

(photos and captions by Reuters)

Yup they definately don't seem too concerned. As someone posted before "white collar crime" is usually treated more lightly (certainly in the west anyway) than shoving a gun in someones face.

I wonder if these aspiring Bernie Maddoff's are going to "assist" in the capture of much larger fish?

[moetownblues]

More Farang criminals arrested in Pattaya. The streets of this place must be crawling with scum.

[personchester]

Something tells me that when they actually get to experience Thai prison life, they won't be nearly so cocky as during their arrest:

A plainclothes policeman (center) escorts German nationals Dave Ackermann (left), 23, and Dominik Lacono, 22, before a news conference at the Thai Police Crime Suppression Division in Bangkok August 9, 2010.

German national Dave Ackermann, 23, attends a news conference at the Thai Police Crime Suppression Division in Bangkok August 9, 2010.

German national Dominik Lacono, 22, attends a news conference at the Thai Police Crime Suppression Division in Bangkok August 9, 2010.

(photos and captions by Reuters)

Yup they definately don't seem too concerned. As someone posted before "white collar crime" is usually treated more lightly (certainly in the west anyway) than shoving a gun in someones face.

I wonder if these aspiring Bernie Maddoff's are going to "assist" in the capture of much larger fish?

No, they would not be prepared to do that if the larger fish is the Russian Mafia, since they continue in their activities with the culture of the former KGB, the result is well known, and the two German burschen will be aware of it, even though according to the pictures they do look and behave rather a bit silly.

[DMC1]

For this i be very happy with my kasikorn account. First if you do a transaction, you will become a SMS with a code to enter. Without this code the transaction will not be accepted. So if someone will on my money in thailand, he also need to have my mobile. The OTP (One Time Passwort) which Kasikorn use i like very much, even when it is little bit more complicated to use outside thailand, if you forget to switch on roaming. You also can choose like a PIN2, but with this you aren't allowed to do everything. With OTP you can do everything what is important.. and i think it is very secure.

And if you call the service center, they ask quite a lot of questions, not same at home, where they ask you only about your birthday and then they give away almost every information.

Last time with kasikorn, they asked me about 5 question, which are very difficult to know by someone else than me.

So be aware of the security of your online banking, and not use the online banking in an internet shop. Not use an internet shop for anything important (sensitive data).

OTP works great when u are in Thailand, NOT when u are offshore with NO chance of getting a signal roaming or otherwise... Why dont they use the little token devices that will give you a code like many other banks. What does Bangkok Bank use?

I have both Kasikorn & BKK bank. Kasikorn is the most secure with the OTP so I only keep small amounts in BKK just in case. I have had money go missing from Kasikorn before while I was working offshore with the ATM card with me at work!! One of our company directors went to the Ekamai branch to sort it out but they were having none of it !! So, I cancelled my ATM with Kasikorn and just use a bank book - Be careful at all times!!! I don't trust any of these Banks 100%

[hoaker]

Where's the security in internet banking?

Aren't banks suppose to secure our funds? I hope the banks in thailand will do something about their security systems rather than just sit there. A 23 year old can hack into the system what an embarrassment for the bank, outsmarting their whole tech team. Guess customers bank accounts getting hacked into is not a liability for the bank. Go figure...

[hoaker]

More Farang criminals arrested in Pattaya. The streets of this place must be crawling with scum.

It has been for decades. Police gotta keep the crime going to disguise themselves.

[kolohe]

Where's the security in internet banking?

Aren't banks suppose to secure our funds? I hope the banks in thailand will do something about their security systems rather than just sit there. A 23 year old can hack into the system what an embarrassment for the bank, outsmarting their whole tech team. Guess customers bank accounts getting hacked into is not a liability for the bank. Go figure...

I believe the article is a bit misleading. Its doubtful they actually hacked the bank's servers thru their security. It's much easier the compromise the security of the weaker link -- the customers. They more than likey were just using trojans or phishing attacks.

As a matter of fact, its unlikely they even have the skill to hack a system or write the trojans. They were probably recruited to run the operation at the lower levels. Some Russian coder probably wrote the trojans and they were just recruited to exploit the information gained and collect the money for a fee.

[Motoon]

BBL has been in the headlines a few times these past months. Their security is outdated and if a problem arises it is always the customer's fault. Although I really do like the staff at my branch I have reduced my business with them, purely because I think that there is a substantial lack of professionalism.

[ianguygil]

OK, I will try to cover as many of the points raised in this thread as reasonable. But firstly I want to make it clear that I cannot get into anything specific about this customer case on a public forum like ThaiVisa. So I will speak in general not to this case being mentioned

Firstly, as you said, it is very important for everybody to realize that iBanking was NOT hacked. In effect what happens with a Trojan is that the customer PC is hacked as the Trojan attaches itself and performs what is known as a “man in the middle” or MOM attack. Trojans are a problem for customers and banks worldwide, not just Bangkok Bank and not just banks in Thailand. Please refer to the front page of the USA Today 2 weeks ago about the current wave of Trojan problems in the USA.

Trojans are installed (in general they do not attach over the net like some malware). The most usual ways in which a Trojan will get onto a computer (PC, MAC, LINUX) is to be installed with another product, such as downloaded media files, unlicensed software, and attachments which install. Trojans are often “Browser Helpers” and are targeted at multiple types of Browser, not just IE. And as I said above, Trojans affect all platforms, so nobody should be complacent, although as the dominant platform WINDOWS is the largest target.

Customers have the responsibility to protect their computer and to only use computers (and wireless networks) they are confident are secure. Included in this protection must be

· Using licensed versions of commercial software (WINDOWS and MAC)

· Automatically updating your software with security patches

· Downloading and installing software and media only from companies you have confidence in

· Running a licensed and updated AV and Malware product and configuring this properly so it checks all files in real time. Please note that many AV products are either free or very, very cheap. You can see BangkokBank.Com for details

· Being prudent about the sites you visit and download from

As I said above, Trojans are effectively a hack of the customer PC. The newer Trojans in the past several years do not harvest passwords as this is too easy to track and to block with a 2-way Firewall. What they do is allow the customer to logon, and once authenticated they do the MOM attack. So it does not matter if a OTP (either from SMS or token) are used at logon if the customer does have a Trojan infection

iBanking is a highly secure system. It is the same software as used by many world class banks that many of you will be using back home.

iBanking does not allow customers to use simple 4 Digit PINS as mentioned somewhere here. We require that customers use complex passwords which are long, alphanumeric and effectively impossible to guess. They are not subject to what is known as a “statistical attack”. We never store customer passwords, so there is no way they can be stolen or misappropriated. We also perform regular penetration tests both internally and by an internationally recognized 3^rd party who specializes in this activity.

iBanking does use SMS OTP extensively for sensitive transactions and we are progressively expanding this, and we provide the email option. In addition to the OTP we also include other valuable information on the SMS which customers MUST check. This includes to “Transfer To” account number.

I will try to post more later as required. Please let me know if you have questions.