ซึ่งๆ

[klons]

ผมเขินที่จะเอาไปให้เธอซึ่งๆหน้า จะจ้างเด็กๆที่วิ่งเล่นอยู่เอาไป

ก็ไม่กล้าอีกนั่น

The given translation.

I was too shy to bring it to her personally. To hire a child to run over and give it to her was again too embarrassing.

That is a line from a short story. The subject has been

smitten with a girl he has seen and is struggling with

finding a way to introduce himself. He is thinking about

writing her a note, but only knows what house she lives

in but doesn’t know her name or who else lives there. So

he is thinking how would he deliver it.

My question is, what does ซึ่งๆหน้า mean? that that page?

Or maybe หน้า is supposed to start the second phrase as

หน้าจะจ้าง and ซึ่งๆ means - that this -as in this way or that way?

The audio does take a pause after หน้า as written.

If anyone can clear this up for me, TIA.

[schoopinij]

I'm not sure if this post could help you but I'll try my best

let's start with the word "ซึ่ง"

ซึ่ง by itself means "which, who , that .. etc." in some sentences such as 'ผมอาศัยอยู่ในหมู่บ้านซึ่งอยู่ในป่า' means 'I live in the village which located in the woods '

"ซึ่งหน้า"or "ซึ่งๆหน้า" is more like an adverb means " Face to Face " or Openly or Directly or straight ... so ซึ่งหน้า(or ซึ่งๆหน้า) is a word you don't have to separate it when you translate.

and your translation" I was too shy to bring it to her personally. To hire a child to run over and give it to her was again too embarrassing" is ok

[tgeezer]

ซึ่ง ๆ หหน้า is in the dictionary means ต่อหน้า an adverb describing the manner of doing something; in this case 'face to face' 'to her face'. I guess personally is good enough. ๆ this symbol is written with a space before and after but the space after หน่า is a comma.

[tgeezer]

ซึ่ง ๆ หหน้า is in the dictionary means ต่อหน้า an adverb describing the manner of doing something; in this case 'face to face' 'to her face'. I guess personally is good enough. ๆ this symbol is written with a space before and after but the space after หน่า is a comma.

The translation is slightly inaccurate, เค็กวิ่งไปให้ is child run go give(run over to give; perhaps?) เด็กว่งเล่นอยู่ describes the child ie. child running for fun ( running around) ที่ is the pronoun for child (who) and is the subject of the second clause ไปให้เขา

If you wouldn't analyze it like that in English then you don't need all that of course.

[Peppy]

The translation is slightly inaccurate, เค็กวิ่งไปให้ is child run go give(run over to give; perhaps?) เด็กว่งเล่นอยู่ describes the child ie. child running for fun ( running around) ที่ is the pronoun for child (who) and is the subject of the second clause ไปให้เขา

If you wouldn't analyze it like that in English then you don't need all that of course.  

Agree with tgeezer here. Perhaps it would be better to say, "...hire one of the children that was running around to take it to her..."; though it doesn't "flow" nearly as well as the first translation, I think it reflects the original passage more accurately.

And I'm not sure if "อีก" indicates "again" in the sense that he'd already hired a child to deliver a message in the past--I think it might just be there to emphasize that he's also shy about getting a child to do it (as well as giving it to her in person).

[DavidHouston]

Lexitron has a sample sentence to go with the phrase ซึ่งหน้า:

Please help me understand the meaning of:

เขาคิดว่าถ้าสู้ซึ่งหน้าไม่ได้ก็ต้องใช้อุบายวิธีต่างๆ ทำให้มันอ่อนกำลังลง

Does:

"He thinks that if he can not overwhelm [his opponent] face to face, he needs to use various tricks to weaken him."

accurately reflect the Thai sentence? Thanks.

[joy16]

ซึ่ง ๆ หหน้า is in the dictionary means ต่อหน้า an adverb describing the manner of doing something; in this case 'face to face' 'to her face'. I guess personally is good enough. ๆ this symbol is written with a space before and after but the space after หน่า is a comma.

ๆ is written with space after it.

For example: ผู้หญิงคนนี้สวยจริงๆ นะ

[Piengrudee]

You can use GOOGLE TRANSLATE.

[tgeezer]

ซึ่ง ๆ หหน้า is in the dictionary means ต่อหน้า an adverb describing the manner of doing something; in this case 'face to face' 'to her face'. I guess personally is good enough. ๆ this symbol is written with a space before and after but the space after หน่า is a comma.

ๆ is written with space after it.

For example: ผู้หญิงคนนี้สวยจริงๆ นะ

Gosh for a moment there I thought that I was wrong; Thai airways magazine shows ต่าง ๆ and sure enough so does the dictionary in this very word ซึ่ง ๆ หน้า In the less formal fonts you are right but I am still following primary school level Thai. :jap:

[Peppy]

You can use GOOGLE TRANSLATE.

Hah! Just to recap, here's the original sentence from the OP:

ผมเขินที่จะเอาไปให้เธอซึ่งๆหน้า จะจ้างเด็กๆที่วิ่งเล่นอยู่เอาไป ก็ไม่กล้าอีกนั่น

And here's my take on it, which I think accurately reflects the meaning: "I was too shy to give it to her in person, and I didn't have the courage to get one of the kids that was running about to give it to her either."

Here's what Google makes of it: "I was shy to take her to the other pages. To hire children ran out to play on. That did not dare again."

Context, context, context. Translation's all about understanding meaning in context, and computers are hopeless at it.

[Peppy]

ซึ่ง ๆ หหน้า is in the dictionary means ต่อหน้า an adverb describing the manner of doing something; in this case 'face to face' 'to her face'. I guess personally is good enough. ๆ this symbol is written with a space before and after but the space after หน่า is a comma.

ๆ is written with space after it.

For example: ผู้หญิงคนนี้สวยจริงๆ นะ

Gosh for a moment there I thought that I was wrong;  Thai airways magazine shows ต่าง ๆ and sure enough so does the dictionary in this very word  ซึ่ง ๆ หน้า  In the less formal fonts you are right but I am still following primary school level Thai. :jap:

Tgeezer is correct here, that mai yamok is written with a space before and after. That is, at least, according to http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/ไม้ยมก, which cites the Royal Institute Dictionary--as authoritative a source there is on matters like this.

For what it's worth, though, I've seen it written, in edited publications, with no space before and a space after, with no space before or after, and even with a space before but no space after. Thais (generally speaking) aren't big on details...

[Peppy]

เขาคิดว่าถ้าสู้ซึ่งหน้าไม่ได้ก็ต้องใช้อุบายวิธีต่างๆ ทำให้มันอ่อนกำลังลง

Does:

"He thinks that if he can not overwhelm [his opponent] face to face, he needs to use various tricks to weaken him."

accurately reflect the Thai sentence?  Thanks.

Hi David,

At first glance it seemed you'd captured the essence just fine, but coming back to it now I have other ideas...

I think perhaps the meaning of ซึ่งหน้า combined with สู้ might be something like "a fair fight"--that is, a fight in which neither side has any outside help. If this is the case, the translation might go something like, "He thinks that if he can't handle him in a fair fight, he'll have to use various tricks to weaken him."

Another possibility is that ซึ่งหน้า here means "openly", as in "for all to see" (and this definition is supported by the Domnern-Sathienpong dictionary), with the idea being that the subject of the sentence can't be seen to openly be fighting with his opponent (perhaps for political reasons), and so needs to find other methods to subdue him, in which case I'd say something like, "He thinks that if he can't fight him openly...". This makes the most sense to me, since the original sentence seems to draw a contrast between "using tricks" and fighting "ซึ่งหน้า", but this contrast isn't present when you translate ซึ่งหน้า as "face to face", since you can still use tricks in a "face to face" fight.

[tgeezer]

For what it's worth, though, I've seen it written, in edited publications, with no space before and a space after, with no space before or after, and even with a space before but no space after. Thais (generally speaking) aren't big on details...

Oh, well that's alright then:rolleyes: