Chiang Mai Teacher Salaries & Qualifications

[Mapguy]

A very recent post was an effort to recruit a teacher for an unnamed Chiang Mai school at 30k baht a month for a 20-hour teaching week. (A female is preferred, but never mind the potential controversy!) The fundamental qualifications requested are a university degree, TEFL (Teaching English as a Foreign Language) qualification, and experience teaching in Thailand, all of which are negotiable except the degree. If you know anything about Thai teacher salaries, clearly, this post was directed toward potential farang candidates.

This post has raised a number of questions in my mind, and the post should raise questions in the minds of any TV parents thinking about where their children now attend or should go to school! (Again, please never mind the preference for a female over a male, which perhaps is nothing more than an indication that the position is most likely for teaching in lower grades).

Here are some questions, and there are certainly more that others can ask relevant to salary, duties and qualifications.

1. What does this school expect to get as a teacher for such a salary? A babysitter would be a good answer! (Comparably, a retiree in Thailand has to show the government an income of 65k per month.)

2. For those unfamiliar with what it takes to be a good teacher, don't be diverted by the notion that 20 hours a week is an easy workload. What that means is 20 hours of classroom time, not including time for organization, meetings and conferences, filling out reports, and --- most importantly --- preparation. So what's the real story about what teachers should expect at such a school?

Which leads to questions of what sort of teacher one might be expected to recruit:

3. What kind of university degree? Electrical engineering? Accounting? Or ---Heaven Forbid! --- Sociology ?! Perhaps one purchased in Bangkok?

4. What's the substantive requirement for teaching experience? What sort of experience other than "in Thailand?" And experience is apparently negotiable!

Okay, now that I've probably gotten a few people upset, I'll try to ask, soberly, what is going on in Chiang Mai schools? What schools are paying what for what qualifications to do what ? Teachers (qualified and other) are probably embarrassed to say much about it. Or are they? And what do the schools have to say for themselves: government, bilingual, and international?

Edited August 18, 2010 by bazmlb

[Firelily]

30 k per month - that seems to be the starting salary for most government and private bilingual schools around here as far as I know.

[cardinalblue]

For gov and Thai schools, one will find from 25k to 40k. And the workloads are heavy when they demand contact hours 18 - 25 or above. The class sizes can range from 25 to 100 plus. Really a shame on class size where ideally it should be 8 to 12 or less even better...

Education is not a high priority in LOS so yes kids are passed through, the quality of teaching is poor, cheating is accepeted and rampant, bogus degrees and low qualifications and most of all the quality of the student is low with even lower expectations...

There are reasons why Thailand is ranked #58 in the world! (recently published Newsweek report) Education is just one factor in the criteria used...

On the other hand, Thai teachers (peers in those same schools) are getting 10k, 12k 15k to do the same thing in a different subject. So should english teachers be getting 64k Baht or whatever one deems approriate when their peers would be making less than 20% of that? Would there not be a little resentment there?

At least it is better than Peace Corps' salary minus the job placement at the end! One needs to group it with the same basket of apples! Just view it as charity or low pay work. Silly and not reasonable to think "oh, I am an established US teacher making 75K back home so where is my equitable compensation here?" "where's my professional development budget?" If one thinks like that, one should never have left their home country..

There is always the international schools for professional teachers to ply their wares..figure gov salary times two...

CB

[Drew Aitch]

6 days a week, and 10 more hours than the previous post would pay on average, 25,000 THB/Mo for a qualified teacher in Chiang Mai. I've known a bunch of teachers here (various ages), that flog themselves to death for the magic 25K. The afore mentioned post (now closed), was a pretty sweet deal for this 'ear neck of the woods, but don't forget that 20 hours of teaching probably requires some hours of preparation too.

I currently have a mate visiting me who runs the Ajarn.com website (A English teachers resource for Thailand), and he told me that Bangkok English teachers could expect 10 to 20,000 Baht more than the jobs offered up North.

Thailand has never been a place for English language teachers to earn good money, and most who teach here never expect to make a decent living out of it in the long term. The majority (single males), are doing it more as a means of staying here until they move on to pastures new. The Far East is where most end up if they're serious about accumulating cash in the teaching game.

Thailand used to be full of English teachers with dodgy degrees and computer made TEFL certificates, but nowadays the requirements are very strict, and checked for authenticity. This country no longer turns a blind eye to unqualified language tutors who's only occupational qualification is their native tongue. The basic requirements in 2010 are a degree (in any subject), and a TEFL cert. A bit of experience thrown into the mix will help put them ahead of any competition.

Aitch

Edited August 18, 2010 by Drew Aitch

[MagnumForce]

30k is about right as a starting salary in CM. CM is undoubtedly a lovely place to live and so many people choose to stay here. Those people who are not retired on a pension or are not financially in a position to stay here without working have very few options. Teaching English is one of them. It is a means to an end. Don't get me wrong. Many teachers really enjoy their work and work hard for their 30k per month. Some don't but in CM they are a small minority.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, employers know that many people want to stay here and will work for less than they should and they take advantage of this. This is particularly the case for many young(ish) guys and girls who have Thai dependents in CM. They need a job to get the extension of stay to continue living with their wife/husband/partner/kids in CM. For them, life isn't easy on 30k per month.

Those who are young, free and single probably find it much easier to manage on 30k per month but it's unlikely they'll get much more because of the sheer numbers of them. It has become an employers' market in that sense so salaries are kept low. Employers also cite the lower cost of living in CM compared to BKK as a reason to justify the lower salaries here. Is this valid? I don't know. Maybe, but if you like socialising with young people of your own age and doing all those young people things, then 30k a month would be cutting it fine.

I gather that teachers who work in International Schools are paid quite a bit more than English teachers in government or bilingual schools. One would hope so given the fees that are charged. The concern for parents of kids in other schools would be what kind of teachers are teaching their kids for 30k per month. Employers don't have to worry about that. If a good teacher wants more money, maybe they will pay it or maybe they will say bye-bye and higher a teacher just off the plane. Alternatively, from a good teachers point of view, where is the motivation to continue to work hard year after year for minimal pay rises, if any? That brings us back to the visa and the desire to stay in CM as the chains that bind teachers to 30k per month.

Of course, in theory, the more experience you have of teaching in Thailand, the higher your salary should be but that is not always the case. A good teacher may have to move from school to school each year to get what they deserve and even then that may not be viable for many reasons.

If employers have good teachers then they should pay them accordingly but TIT and what should happen usually doesn't.:jap:

[Thighlander]

I think 30 is above average for CM, and even more so for Chiang Rai. They have gotten more strict, but the qualifications are fairly low, as are the salaries. I think the 4000 missionaries help bring down wages. The wife can afford the low pay, while they collect money from their churches. Paperwork will be worse than an IRS problem. The 15 day visa thing at Mae Sai must have really thinned the crowd out. There used to be lots of teachers on the visa run trips. They are also breeding TEFL teachers up at CMU. BKK, if you must. Making them pay a retainer fee would be advisable.

[SEETEFL]

25 - 30,000 THB per month is the average salary for a foreign teacher at a Thai formal school in Chiang Mai.

We have a mix of approximately 60 % males and 40% females complete our TEFL certification program. Ages have ranged from 20 - 67. There is a range of motivations for people becoming TEFL teachers but by the end of training trainees have developed a positive attitude towards teaching, Thais and Thailand.

7 - 8,000 THB per month is the starting salary for a Thai national at a government school. This is certainly true of Chiang Mai as I interviewed the heads of the Chiang Mai Ministry of Education a few years ago. The interview: http://www.ajarn.com/ajarn-guests/articles/interview-at-the-ministry-of-education/

If a foreigner wants to enjoy a western-style life in Chiang Mai including regular visits to the many excellent expat bars and restaurants, a TEFL teacher's salary probably won't finance it. If a foreigner wants to enter an area of Thai society not normally open to long-term expats and tourists and enjoy a hybrid life of mixing western and Asian culture, teaching or volunteer-teaching may be suitable for him or her. In addition, teaching usually gives the foreigner the added security of long-term visas and work permits. I have lived here 11 years and grown from an hourly-paid language school teacher to a school owner.

John Quinn

SEE TEFL

http://seetefl.com

We are an ISO 9001:2008 company

Teaching Forum Sponsor

[Joop50]

My wife's salary on a gouvernment school is only 20k and she is teacher for 16 years. The starting salary is 7k.

She works 5-6 days 8 houres at least.

[sarahsbloke]

I used to be a schoolteacher in the UK

Have

B.Sc. (Hons) in electrical and electronic engineering (from a good UK university)

Postgraduate Certificate in Education

Member of the British General Teaching Council

10 years experience in a UK comprehensive school, and a small amount of experience in primary school

(mainly Maths up to AS level, but also general supply)

That wage & conditions looked pretty good to me ...... (if I wanted to work any more).

Edited August 19, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[SEETEFL]

I used to be a schoolteacher in the UK

Have

B.Sc. (Hons) in electrical and electronic engineering (from a good UK university)

Postgraduate Certificate in Education

Member of the British General Teaching Council

10 years experience in a UK comprehensive school, and a small amount of experience in primary school

(mainly Maths up to AS level, but also general supply)

That wage & conditions looked pretty good to me ...... (if I wanted to work any more).

With your qualifications and experience you would be able to find employment at most of the International Schools (exceptions are Prem and Grace) in Chiang Mai earning a salary around twice as much as a TEFL teacher. Private Thai formal schools with English programs would be very interested in you as well but salaries would range from 30 to 40,000 THB per month in Chiang Mai.

John

SEE TEFL

[ChiangMaiFun]

John, I'm not particularly looking right now but I have two master degrees (MSc/MA) - one in hospital management and one in private sector management plus an unused TEFL (Trinity) plus other bits and pieces (DMS etc.)

Is there any market for management teaching? I was SVP/Head of Ops for blue chip companies back in my last incarnation in farangland – tons of experience in management but no teaching experience (beyond the required TEFL course requirements) – just wondered if I ever decided to give it a go (PT) is there any market out there in CM ?

[jdinasia]

I used to be a schoolteacher in the UK

Have

B.Sc. (Hons) in electrical and electronic engineering (from a good UK university)

Postgraduate Certificate in Education

Member of the British General Teaching Council

10 years experience in a UK comprehensive school, and a small amount of experience in primary school

(mainly Maths up to AS level, but also general supply)

That wage & conditions looked pretty good to me ...... (if I wanted to work any more).

With your qualifications and experience you would be able to find employment at most of the International Schools (exceptions are Prem and Grace) in Chiang Mai earning a salary around twice as much as a TEFL teacher. Private Thai formal schools with English programs would be very interested in you as well but salaries would range from 30 to 40,000 THB per month in Chiang Mai.

John

SEE TEFL

I rather think the OP just wanted to dig at the fact that the school wants a woman to replace a woman that is leaving (while saying he didn't want to talk about that he certainly brought it up multiple times). The thread that is closed that he was referring to had people jumping off on 'sexism' with no knowledge of the situation. (Like are there already 4 male teachers at the school and the school wants a female to add balance, perspective, and social/cultural experience that would be lacking by hiring a man?)

30k, plus a work permit, plus a set number of contact hours a week is above average in Chiang Mai by a little bit. (30k no work permit or 27k and a work permit seems a bit more typical)

Chiang Mai is a great place to live and work. 30k in CNX equals about 40k in BKK when you address the cost of living (You get a LOT more for 6k rent in CNX than in BKK -- transport is cheaper here -- and it is reasonable to ride a motorcycle here when many people feel that is not so in BKK.)

Personally, I would probably not choose to teach in Thailand. The pay versus expectations are reasonable imho, but it just isn't what I think of as a fun job Being a company director in an ever expanding and diverse company is more my cup of tea

[SEETEFL]

John, I'm not particularly looking right now but I have two master degrees (MSc/MA) - one in hospital management and one in private sector management plus an unused TEFL (Trinity) plus other bits and pieces (DMS etc.)

Is there any market for management teaching? I was SVP/Head of Ops for blue chip companies back in my last incarnation in farangland – tons of experience in management but no teaching experience (beyond the required TEFL course requirements) – just wondered if I ever decided to give it a go (PT) is there any market out there in CM ?

Hi CMF,

If you wish to teach management or hospital management in English, you'll need to find a university which offers an international program degree or diploma course. According to this source, there are 691 international programs taught at Thai universities.

http://studyinthailand.org/

These programs may be relevant to your 2 master degrees:

Chiang Mai University offers a bachelor degree in nursing science and a master degree in nursing administration. Your nursing management master degree may be sufficient to teach some of the units.

Payap University offers a bachelor degree in international business management and a MBA.

Both universities may consider hiring you part-time. I suggest pop in and meet the people who run the programs.

Also, try Rajabaht University along Changpuak Road and Ratchmanka University along Huay Kaew Road as both run vocational courses taught in English.

Some language schools run business-English classes. Drop off your CV with a cover note explaining you are only interested in teaching part-time business English classes. Most language schools will only pay you for the hours you teach.

John

Edited August 19, 2010 by SEETEFL

[ChiangMaiFun]

John, I'm not particularly looking right now but I have two master degrees (MSc/MA) - one in hospital management and one in private sector management plus an unused TEFL (Trinity) plus other bits and pieces (DMS etc.)

Is there any market for management teaching? I was SVP/Head of Ops for blue chip companies back in my last incarnation in farangland – tons of experience in management but no teaching experience (beyond the required TEFL course requirements) – just wondered if I ever decided to give it a go (PT) is there any market out there in CM ?

Hi CMF,

If you wish to teach management or hospital management in English, you'll need to find a university which offers an international program degree or diploma course. According to this source, there are 691 international programs taught at Thai universities.

http://studyinthailand.org/

These programs may be relevant to your 2 master degrees:

Chiang Mai University offers a bachelor degree in nursing science and a master degree in nursing administration. Your nursing management master degree may be sufficient to teach some of the units.

Payap University offers a bachelor degree in international business management and a MBA.

Both universities may consider hiring you part-time. I suggest pop in and meet the people who run the programs.

Also, try Rajabaht University along Changpuak Road and Ratchmanka University along Huay Kaew Road as both run vocational courses taught in English.

Some language schools run business-English classes. Drop off your CV with a cover note explaining you are only interested in teaching part-time business English classes. Most language schools will only pay you for the hours you teach.

John

Hi, very much appreciated, just to clarify the MSc is in health care management (hospital admin/support services etc.) not nursing - I had not seriously thought about if I wanted to do anything until I read this thread - was thinking about management training rather than utilising my TEFL with English teaching - which I would find very boring personally - but staff management, HR stuff, change management, facilities management and outsoucring is really (or was) my thing at top levels both in the NHS in UK and in private companies.

Thanks again

[thaimiller]

I used to be a schoolteacher in the UK

This explains alot.

[naboo]

No degree = 20k-25k

Degree + TEFL = 25-30k as an ESL teacher, 30-35k as a specialist teacher in an English Program.

Degree + Home country teaching credentials + experience = 45k+ in an international school.

Someone who's home country qualified but with no experience would probably end up in the EPs on 35k+

I'm in the 45k+ bracket and could easily work in Bangkok for an extra 30-60k/month, but then I'd have to live in BKK. 120k would compete at the lower end of the global scale.

I choose the lifestyle over the money, for now.

[jayinoz]

No degree = 20k-25k

Degree + TEFL = 25-30k as an ESL teacher, 30-35k as a specialist teacher in an English Program.

Degree + Home country teaching credentials + experience = 45k+ in an international school.

Someone who's home country qualified but with no experience would probably end up in the EPs on 35k+

I'm in the 45k+ bracket and could easily work in Bangkok for an extra 30-60k/month, but then I'd have to live in BKK. 120k would compete at the lower end of the global scale.

I choose the lifestyle over the money, for now.

I think many overexaggerate the rates in Thailand- for what reason I have no idea- Public schools will never ever pay you to 35K bt, they simply do not have the budget. I know of teachers being paid from 15-20K bt in Public schools. In fact all Uni's have a standard fee of 18K + allowance for house.

You do not get 60k bt more in BKK than anywhere else in Thailand.

Dependant on the school, what you negoitate, your education, ability and primarily if you are any good in the long run.

International schools are but a dream salary for most- you need to know someone in the skills and have a lot of experience and education.

Due to threads like this most teachers feel they are undervalued and move on only to find they cannot get much better. Expect 20K bt from Public school- bottom yet pain in butt. EP (Private) more qualifications to verify and you can get 30K bt- 10K more in BKK- yet BKK is 10K bt more to live. Elite International school are a different story, yet I heard of unbelieveable salaries being paid- yet usually to Directors.

Like it or not teachers get only enough to live in Thailand OKish- go to South Korea, HK, SG or Japan within Asia if wish to live modest yet save $20000 odd US pa.

As much as people will not wish to hear this- Thailand is a stepping stone of experience for most whom want a career in teaching. Others it simply a hobby, as these expats have funds from elsewhere. Teaching not their profession.

I partnered in a school here in North Thai several years ago- the thing that stuck me was the supposed amazing amount of Master degree qualified FARANGs, or even PHD. Nearly every single time I followed this up they were committing fraud and they were faked. Which carries some tough sentences in Thai, if autorities notified... Plus fraudelent degrees that the OP was alluding to has been found when people apply for WP- only to be in serious trouble when the Educational Department sees they are falsified. Not worth the risk OP...

School Directors do notify the Education Department and department of labour. So be careful OP- many try to allude to whether it worth the risk. I can tell you- no it is not worth it for the few bucks you get in Thailand.

Think again before having that fake degree made up in BKK- the penalties are hard. Deportation and big fines- some may simply ask for a pay off not to inform the authorities, as it is Thailand after all.

Do it the correct way- even if you have no degree... Get a TEFL then apply and you will be hired if they like you and you look around hard enough. Directors are forgiving of not finishing degrees if you prove you will be a large asset to the Private school. You have assets that prove you may stay longer than the average, or you willing to work that bit harder.

Ultimately Directors think of the money- if parents of students like you and you look to be attracting more into the school then you will be in demand- Private and International it the bottom line. Internationals and good private schools have typically bigger reputations to protect thus firmer checks.

Yet I could find out within minutes if a potential employee had faked degrees, etc. Fax the authority to the school, they release whether they ever been a student and their transcript.

Most schools and Uni's will release without the need for you to sign off on authority. Often when I asked someone to sign off on authority to release results then they would disappear, as some Uni's require it, not many. I knew they would be looking elsewhere, so no choice than to notify Thai Department of Education and labour regarding their details.

[Thighlander]

No degree = 20k-25k

Degree + TEFL = 25-30k as an ESL teacher, 30-35k as a specialist teacher in an English Program.

Degree + Home country teaching credentials + experience = 45k+ in an international school.

Someone who's home country qualified but with no experience would probably end up in the EPs on 35k+

I'm in the 45k+ bracket and could easily work in Bangkok for an extra 30-60k/month, but then I'd have to live in BKK. 120k would compete at the lower end of the global scale.

I choose the lifestyle over the money, for now.

I think many overexaggerate the rates in Thailand- for what reason I have no idea- Public schools will never ever pay you to 35K bt, they simply do not have the budget. I know of teachers being paid from 15-20K bt in Public schools. In fact all Uni's have a standard fee of 18K + allowance for house.

You do not get 60k bt more in BKK than anywhere else in Thailand.

Dependant on the school, what you negoitate, your education, ability and primarily if you are any good in the long run.

International schools are but a dream salary for most- you need to know someone in the skills and have a lot of experience and education.

Due to threads like this most teachers feel they are undervalued and move on only to find they cannot get much better. Expect 20K bt from Public school- bottom yet pain in butt. EP (Private) more qualifications to verify and you can get 30K bt- 10K more in BKK- yet BKK is 10K bt more to live. Elite International school are a different story, yet I heard of unbelieveable salaries being paid- yet usually to Directors.

Like it or not teachers get only enough to live in Thailand OKish- go to South Korea, HK, SG or Japan within Asia if wish to live modest yet save $20000 odd US pa.

As much as people will not wish to hear this- Thailand is a stepping stone of experience for most whom want a career in teaching. Others it simply a hobby, as these expats have funds from elsewhere. Teaching not their profession.

I partnered in a school here in North Thai several years ago- the thing that stuck me was the supposed amazing amount of Master degree qualified FARANGs, or even PHD. Nearly every single time I followed this up they were committing fraud and they were faked. Which carries some tough sentences in Thai, if autorities notified... Plus fraudelent degrees that the OP was alluding to has been found when people apply for WP- only to be in serious trouble when the Educational Department sees they are falsified. Not worth the risk OP...

School Directors do notify the Education Department and department of labour. So be careful OP- many try to allude to whether it worth the risk. I can tell you- no it is not worth it for the few bucks you get in Thailand.

Think again before having that fake degree made up in BKK- the penalties are hard. Deportation and big fines- some may simply ask for a pay off not to inform the authorities, as it is Thailand after all.

Do it the correct way- even if you have no degree... Get a TEFL then apply and you will be hired if they like you and you look around hard enough. Directors are forgiving of not finishing degrees if you prove you will be a large asset to the Private school. You have assets that prove you may stay longer than the average, or you willing to work that bit harder.

Ultimately Directors think of the money- if parents of students like you and you look to be attracting more into the school then you will be in demand- Private and International it the bottom line. Internationals and good private schools have typically bigger reputations to protect thus firmer checks.

Yet I could find out within minutes if a potential employee had faked degrees, etc. Fax the authority to the school, they release whether they ever been a student and their transcript.

Most schools and Uni's will release without the need for you to sign off on authority. Often when I asked someone to sign off on authority to release results then they would disappear, as some Uni's require it, not many. I knew they would be looking elsewhere, so no choice than to notify Thai Department of Education and labour regarding their details.

Ï've noticed the job offers have thinned out since I added "will not work illegally" to my resume. As soon as people start being firm on the paperwork; the better it will be for everyone; especially the students.

[Citizen313619]

Having a degree in education + teacher certification will get you atleast 50K in Chiang Mai

I still have always found that it is best to apply in person instead of just sending your resume by email