Extradition Of Alleged Russian Arms Dealer Viktor Bout Delayed: Thai PM

[Jingthing]

Mr Viktor Bout is a terrorist because he sell arms to "terrorist" americans say.

Why not send Mr. Bush to The Hague International Criminal Court for the use of arms?

That's not really logical as a legal head of state has the right to wage legal wars, whatever they are. That said, I am sure there are war crimes charges that could be raised against Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld and as an American I would like to see them raised. Surprised? Still want this Russkie ALSO to face charges.

[Mitker]

For these who really need to challenge the US supremacy, I think there are far better, more constructive and effective ways than by expressing your wish to see a mass murderer run free. By doing so, you just lower yourself to what you hate in your "enemy"

[alibaba007]

Selling arms can be by the law a crime in some Country.

The use of arms can make to become a mass murderer and is also a crime.

Correct me if wrong.

[TAWP]

The support here shown for this criminal from non-democratic Russia now run by the Putin dictator over democratic USA tells us more about the psychiatric sickness among the membership here rather than this specific case. Virulent hatred of America trumps reason it seems. BTW, the smart money is still on his extradition.

Nonsense. So anyone that dislikes double-standard or government-oppression, even if they happen to be Americans themselves, are anti-American?

You have a very warped view on how labels are defined on a person.

[zthyadat]

Let us hope he goes free. it would teach the USA a lesson. The US wanted to look smart by adding new charges (at least it shows that they have a judicial system on par with that of Thailand, which is only working for very rich Nationals). Now we may hope that it takes more than 90 days to run those charges it means he goes free.

What? It will teach the US a lesson in trying every avenue to get a dangerous man extradited? How exactly does this show that their judicial system is on a par with Thailand's? You have got to be joking, right?

A few examples:

1. In Thailand, the equivalent of Bernie Madoff would never have gone to jail.

2. In the US, Moo Ham, the Mercedes Benz killer, would have been locked up forthwith, and would not have gotten away with hiding out in the hospital claiming to be suffering from some non-specified illness. In the US, if you sentence someone to ten years in jail and then release them pending an appeal, there are journalists (and procedures within the system) that follow up the case and publicise the perversion of justice, unlike here where it is just left to dry up and blow away from the public memory.

3. In the US, if a prominent politician's son shot some cop in a nightclub with several witnesses and then did a runner to avoid trial, it is far less likely the witnesses would all change their testimony (and could be charged with contempt of court for doing so), and the murderer would have ended up in the slammer - even if only on the charge of jumping bail. Declared innocent of the murder or not, in the US that charge would stand no matter what. But as far as the Thai justice system is concerned, he was "innocent", so doing a runner was okay.

And you want this (in all likelihood) savage to go free because it will "teach the USA a lesson"? Wow. (Okay, to be fair, he hasn't been tried yet, but there is a pretty strong chance he is guilty, and therefore should be held until guilt or innocence is proven.)

By the way, before any accusations of jingoism come flying in, I am not an American, and I'm generally very critical of the country, but your comparison of their judicial system with Thailand's was too ridiculous to let lie.

[zthyadat]

Let us hope he goes free. it would teach the USA a lesson. The US wanted to look smart by adding new charges (at least it shows that they have a judicial system on par with that of Thailand, which is only working for very rich Nationals). Now we may hope that it takes more than 90 days to run those charges it means he goes free.

Yes, I strongly support this point of view.

Thailand is an independent state and is not supposed to obey the orders from Washington.

And Thailand doesn't want to spoil diplomatic relations with Russia.

Good relations with Russia are very important to Thailand.

Either way, if Thailand plays the realpolitik game, they are taking orders from one or the other. So you'd have them abandon an extradition treaty with the US so as not to spoil their relations with Russia? The last time I looked, their relations with the USA were pretty important too.

[zthyadat]

Mr Viktor Bout is a terrorist because he sell arms to "terrorist" americans say.

Why not send Mr. Bush to The Hague International Criminal Court for the use of arms?

Agreed. Send them both away for the rest of their lives. But don't let one go because the other got away with it.

[Jingthing]

Relations with the USA, Thailand's leading trading partner and close military ally, are MUCH more important than their relations to Russia.

[bkkjames]

Cant they do a swap - give the Russians those cuties that got caught recently shagging some Langley folk for sweet whispers and Mr Bout can go to Cuba?

[ThaiFelix]

Are we really so ignoreant that we'd care what the "US" agenda in this matter is? Who cares at this point? If he is truly the supplier of weapons to places like Sierra Leona and the Congo where mass rape, looting, and murder on a scale that parallel an epedemic occcur regularly, than who cares who wants him? Let New Zealand arrest him for all I care.

Do we as people turn a blind eye to genocide merely because we care who they killed or why? Shame on you! I don't care who his enemies are or what someone has on him; wholesale murder is wrong no matter who the target is. Do you suggest otherwise????????????????

The world is tired of the US trying to police the whole world.

Yes, it is possible that those weapons could be used to shoot

down an American helicopter, because the US is everywhere

where it thinks it has a 'right' to (whether that is true or not),

and there are most likely helicopters of them too.

As Henry Kissinger said:" The US has no friends, it only has interests!"

With that kind of logic we may as well string up every gunshop owner as well, not too mention every American because they all benefit from being part of the biggest arms dealing organisation in the world. And that is what this is all about. The USA doesnt like fair competition from another arms dealer like Bout. And its even more difficult because he's an independant. They would prefer to make threats if he was part of a country, impose embargos, accuse them of having WMD's (which they sold to em), labelled them terrorists, destroy their exports by subsidising their own or somebody elses...or just go to war with another 'coalition of the willing' (ha ha ha) force comprised of those who have unwillingly joined due to the same aformentioned threats.

sedeflonga, thanks for that quote. My favourite is the one my old dad use to tell me..' When you have the yanks as your friends, who needs enemies?

However, I would like to point out that I dont dislike all Americans, its their governments. I have a lot of friends from the US, and they are just some of the meagre few who have had the luck? to travel outside the US and have had their eyes jerked wide open by reality.

Edited August 25, 2010 by ThaiFelix

[Robby nz]

Do we as people turn a blind eye to genocide merely because we care who they killed or why? Shame on you! I don't care who his enemies are or what someone has on him; wholesale murder is wrong no matter who the target is. Do you suggest otherwise????????????????

Certainly dont however if you want to go that way......................

You have to consider the quantity of arms the US has sold around the world, in some cases that have been used against the populations of the countries they have been sold to.

Someone commented on the amount the weapons the US is at present selling to TL in proportion to what Russia sells as some sort of praise of the US, however the red shirts would claim these same weapons were used against them and like to call it mass murder.

If you want to talk about the US and mass murder in the same sentence then you should consider Afganastan both past and present, Iraq, Vietnam.

If I sell someone a car and they use it as a car bomb does that make me a mass murdrer?

Bout may have sold weapons (unproven in court as yet) but I dont see anywhere that he used them against anyone, so mass murderer mmmmmmmmmmmm?

Sorry but I'm not a fan of the US for what they're doing, have done, past and present.

Particularly after their recent financial destruction of themselves and much of the world, a crumbling empire.

Havent they recently passed a law preventing their own citizens from being extradited be another country?

Whether Bout has been selling weapons is not for me to say but if he has he certainly hasnt sold as many as the US nor has he used them himself as has the US.

[Robby nz]

sorry double post

Edited August 25, 2010 by Robby nz

[ThaiFelix]

sorry double post

Fine with me, I often read intelligent articles twice in case I missed something.

I too seem to remember hearing something about an anti-extradition law....Now why would you wanna do that?? hmmmmmm??

[Jingthing]

If this clearly scum bucket merchant of death was being tried at the Hague instead of by the USA, do you think there would be any protest about that in the least? I doubt it. The protests are clearly from America bashers. You can hate me too, I am WITH my government on this one!

Edited August 25, 2010 by Jingthing

[ableguy]

Let us hope he goes free. it would teach the USA a lesson. The US wanted to look smart by adding new charges (at least it shows that they have a judicial system on par with that of Thailand, which is only working for very rich Nationals). Now we may hope that it takes more than 90 days to run those charges it means he goes free.

What a stupid and pathetic post this, another USA hater with less than half a brain.It really is difficult to figure out your rationality for such warped thinking.

[ableguy]

My guess is that, if he really is guilty of supplying arms on the scale he's been accused of, then he would have to have some very strong connections in the Russian government, which means they don't want him talking because of the possible implications to their officials. I agree with daboyz1 in that they don't want him talking.

With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised to see a spectacular, Hollywood-style escape on the way to the airport, whenever that happens, where the Russians make the Thai "commandos" look like idiots (probably not hard to do), and then wisk him away to Russia, or some other country. Or, there's the possibility of a assassination of the man, also backed by the Russians.

This might turn out to be better than the movie.

PURE FANTASY

[Piengrudee]

Trade him for Thaksin, someone said.

[ableguy]

Do we as people turn a blind eye to genocide merely because we care who they killed or why? Shame on you! I don't care who his enemies are or what someone has on him; wholesale murder is wrong no matter who the target is. Do you suggest otherwise????????????????

Certainly dont however if you want to go that way......................

You have to consider the quantity of arms the US has sold around the world, in some cases that have been used against the populations of the countries they have been sold to.

Someone commented on the amount the weapons the US is at present selling to TL in proportion to what Russia sells as some sort of praise of the US, however the red shirts would claim these same weapons were used against them and like to call it mass murder.

If you want to talk about the US and mass murder in the same sentence then you should consider Afganastan both past and present, Iraq, Vietnam.

If I sell someone a car and they use it as a car bomb does that make me a mass murdrer?

Bout may have sold weapons (unproven in court as yet) but I dont see anywhere that he used them against anyone, so mass murderer mmmmmmmmmmmm?

Sorry but I'm not a fan of the US for what they're doing, have done, past and present.

Particularly after their recent financial destruction of themselves and much of the world, a crumbling empire.

Havent they recently passed a law preventing their own citizens from being extradited be another country?

Whether Bout has been selling weapons is not for me to say but if he has he certainly hasnt sold as many as the US nor has he used them himself as has the US.

wOULD YOU BE IN FAVOUR OF HIM SELLING AN ATOM OR DIRTY BOMB TO THAT BUNCH OF RAGHEAD TERRORISTS IN AFGHANISTAN, SURE SOUNDS LIKE IT. OF COURSE IF THIS DID HAPPEN AND IT WENT OFF SAY IN LONDON HE WOULD NOT BE HELD TO BLAME.

[ableguy]

Delay already. Very good I hope he is shipped to Russia and not to America.

Let America loose face. They make a mess of the whole world with their arms dealings and wars.

Somebody should put them in court!

How old are you? are you european ? if elderly and European the chances are you are only here today through the sacrifice of American lives when they saved Europes ass WW 2

[Robby nz]

Well Jing and Able you are to be commended on your defence of your country.

But there is a possibility it may prevent you from seeing the bigger picture.

Able: You are the only one who has made that suggestion, dont give anyone ideas.

Consider who sold ( or gave) the Afgan terrorists their weapons when they were freedom fighters fighting against the Russians.

And yes I have some good US friends also but none of them are in Govt.

[Romanoeman]

Seems that Mr. Bout has just pulled his get out of jail card out his pocket, and realised it isn't worth what he was promised.

How exactly does one renege on a deal with the world's largest arms dealer?

You have to love the intrigue of politics in this country.

This is where the guy suddenly disappears!!!

[gemini81]

Delay already. Very good I hope he is shipped to Russia and not to America.

Let America loose face. They make a mess of the whole world with their arms dealings and wars.

Somebody should put them in court!

we'll send him to your country instead then. when he starts selling arms again, don't bitch

[Johan78]

Excuse my ignorance but has this guy broken any American laws on American soil? If he has I say go for it, if not I find the American behaviour very distasteful.

[LaoPo]

The support here shown for this criminal from non-democratic Russia now run by the Putin dictator over democratic USA tells us more about the psychiatric sickness among the membership here rather than this specific case. Virulent hatred of America trumps reason it seems. BTW, the smart money is still on his extradition.

Gotta agree with you on this.

.

In using Thai Visa I agree:

1) To respect fellow members.

3) Not to post in a manner that is vulgar, obscene or profane .

4) Not to flame fellow members.

Flaming will not be tolerated. 'Flaming' is defined as posting or responding to a message in a way clearly intended to incite useless arguments, to launch personal attacks, to insult, or to be hateful towards other members. This includes useless criticism, name-calling, swearing and any other comments meant to incite anger.

6) Not to post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.

Defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm. Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a printed or fixed medium, such as a magazine or newspaper.

From: http://www.thaivisa....tion=boardrules

I think the forum rules are quite clear, don't you think?

I would say that being in agreement with your fellow American member Jingthing, who claims that other members are psychiatric sick, is strong bashing and flaming, even without mentioning member names.

Member Jingthing is an opportunistic poster who screams and protests from the roofs if someone says something about the US, or Israel, but he does exactly the same about other countries like China and Russia himself.

But, you and him seem to forget about the rule:

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

Pot Kettle Black.

LaoPo

[coastalmatty]

And how many of those countrys has the states supplied with weapons to fuel conflict, like they say its all politics.

[Renbe]

Delay already. Very good I hope he is shipped to Russia and not to America.

Let America loose face. They make a mess of the whole world with their arms dealings and wars.

Somebody should put them in court!

America is the biggest arms dealer in the world. They sell anything to anybody. Remember the Iran - Contra scandal ?

Nobody got extradited for those arms shipments...

[Briggsy]

The greater the delays, the greater the bribes, backhanders, kickbacks, payments in kind & 'legal' fees are. At every step of the way in the legal process, people will expect to be paid from court clerks for admin services to prison guards for everything from edible food to air con cells to judges for a consideration of a motion.

Of course the political implications of this case mean the government will be extracting everything it can from both foreign govts and the Bout camp. It's been a 2-year jackpot bumper bonus payday. Why stop the party now?

[animatic]

Mr Viktor Bout is a terrorist because he sell arms to "terrorist" americans say.

Why not send Mr. Bush to The Hague International Criminal Court for the use of arms?

That's not really logical as a legal head of state has the right to wage legal wars, whatever they are. That said, I am sure there are war crimes charges that could be raised against Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld and as an American I would like to see them raised. Surprised? Still want this Russkie ALSO to face charges.

As another American I also wish these men could be charged with something.

They were and are an embarrassment to the nation, and a plague on the world.

[Tropicalevo]

Are we really so ignoreant that we'd care what the "US" agenda in this matter is? Who cares at this point? If he is truly the supplier of weapons to places like Sierra Leona and the Congo where mass rape, looting, and murder on a scale that parallel an epedemic occcur regularly, than who cares who wants him? Let New Zealand arrest him for all I care.

Do we as people turn a blind eye to genocide merely because we care who they killed or why? Shame on you! I don't care who his enemies are or what someone has on him; wholesale murder is wrong no matter who the target is. Do you suggest otherwise????????????????

The world is tired of the US trying to police the whole world.

Yes, it is possible that those weapons could be used to shoot

down an American helicopter, because the US is everywhere

where it thinks it has a 'right' to (whether that is true or not),

and there are most likely helicopters of them too.

As Henry Kissinger said:" The US has no friends, it only has interests!"

Well said

[Thai at Heart]

Bout going nowhere until October

From The Nation front page

Bout's extradition delayed at least until early October

Thai authorities have postponed at least until early October the extradition of Viktor Bout, known as "Merchant of Death, to the United States," Voice of Russia reported Wednesday.

The news agency quoted Bout's lawyer Lak Nittiwattanawichan as saying that a Thai court will look into the US' accusations against Bout involving fraud and money laundering on October 4.

Lak said in an interview with the Voice of Russia that Bout would not be extradited at least until October 4.

Last Friday the Thai Court of Appeals ruled that Bout should be extradited to the United States on charges of illegal arms trade.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov earlier described the trial of Bout as having nothing to do with justice and driven by politics.

The United States has 90 days from the court decision to complete the extradition procedure.

Bout was arrested in Bangkok in 2008 for allegedly offering to sell missiles and other weapons to U.S. agents that would be used against U.S. targets.

The agents were posing as members of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, the FARC, a rebel group the U.S. considers to be a terrorist organization.

Bout is alleged to be one of the world's biggest suppliers of weapons, fueling dictators and wars across Africa, the Middle East, and South America. He denies the accusation and maintains he ran a legitimate air cargo business.

I have a sneaking suspicion that he won't be leaving these shores for quite a while, and if he does, it is looking less and less unlikely to be to the US. The Russians are more likely to bump him off in prison here than let him go to the US and spill his guts.

88 days and counting............

Edited August 25, 2010 by Thai at Heart