Child Custody

[SixNine]

Hi Thaivisa members,

i would like to know if someone knows a good lawyer who speaks good english to help me getting custody for my child.

My daughter is 3 years old. I am german and its an long and sad story, but now i am ready to fight for the best of my child.

I want custody for her.

Soon i will make the german passport for her, her mother agree to sign the papers.

Right now i am just on birth certificate as father.

After that i want to start the custody case.

I am paying for her support every month right now, my ex-GF is working in an hotel in central thailand and my child is in surin, growing up with her grandmother.

Without my support it would be not possible that she takes good care of my child.

So, what chances i have to get custody, and where do i find a good lawyer that won´t ripp me off?

Thanks in advance for any suggestion...

[mkawish]

It may sound heartless to suggest that the very first thing that you ought to do is,

to seek a DNA identification between you and your child, which would cost in Thailand about 8,000 THB, 4,000 for you and another 4,000 for your child, as quoted yesterday by a Thai hospital.

<br><br>Do not proceed without this piece of evidence, regardless of how absolutely sure that you and you alone is the indisputable biological father.

<br><br>There are several other farangs whom I know, were also absolutely and categorically sure that they and they alone were the biological fathers, but the DNA labs in USA and other countries returned their unmatchable DNA resulting in dismay, and heartbreak etc.

<br><br>Take a look at the attached unmatched DNA profile.... but fortunately the Man concerned loves the child very much and continues his financial support and does not to date mention the result of the DNA to the mother who continues to believe that her husband is the biological father. If ever she has any doubt, she would not be so dull as to show up at the Embassy to testify that the farang was the biological father. And when the father suggested a DNA to expedite passport processing, the passport office, the mother and father all agreed to the proceedings.

<br><br>So my friend, this is just an unsought advice, you have the rights to do whatever is best for you. Good luck to you whichever way you choose and God bless you, your child and family members, regardless of the outcome.

Edited August 26, 2010 by mkawish

[Mario2008]

You have to understand that first it has to be established that you are the legal father of the child. Than the question of custody over the child will be determined, what can be contested by the mother. Normally Thai courts prefer to give joined custody and not one parent single custody.

Of course all depends on the details of the case, and the fact that the child is not staying with the mother is a factor. Discuss your case and options with a good lawyer. A good lawyer in family law would be isaanlawyers.

[MikeyIdea]

DNA is not necessary at all at this stage, it will only be required if the mother contest that you are not the biological father. If the mother does not contest that you are the father, then the DNA is totally unnecessary, not asked for, not wanted and means nothing

What are your chances? Good luck that you are in a country that does not discriminate against fathers or foreigners, decision will be in the best interest of the child.

You pay, good start, make sure you have evidence of every transfer. Your gf is working so the child is hardly going to be worse off than millions of other poor children in Thailand if you cut the support though. You have an advantage on this, no doubt, but see it from a Thai judges' perspective. Yes, you offer better opportunities of course but the mother isn't doing too badly either, at least she tries to do honest work.

Possession of the child is very important - You give the mother an opportunity that is an disadvantage for you as the child is with her grandmother - change that. Edit: changed the phrase - you are at a disadvantage because it is misleading. The child should be either with the mother or you, never the grandmother. So, if the child is with you now then you have a better chance of getting more possession in the final custody agreement. Or rather, everything is about possession because there is no doubt that you will get shared custody, the court will not remove the mothers shared custody unless you can show evidence that directly prove that she is dangerous for the child and that basically works 2 ways, the court will not refuse you shared custody unless there is evidence that you are dangerous or outright bad for the child. But who will get most of the possession of the child? And where will the child live?

Edit: I correct myself - You are not at an disadvantage because the child is with the grand mother, as Mario2008 says, it is actually better for you that she is there than with the mother of course. BUT - where is the childs primary home going to be in the formal agreement? If mother moves to back to Surin to work, then what? You open up a door for the mother to use the grand mother that could have been closed had you handled it better. Apologies for using a word that was mis-leading

Not a very good idea that the child is with the grand mother in Surin, I suppose you live in Bangkok, if you do, then you should sue there, better chance of a better deal in Bangkok than in Surin of course.

Rule is basically that the grand mother is nothing - but you are unfortunately letting her in on the deal now by letting her take care of the child. If the child has been with the grand mother for more than a few months then you give the mother the opportunity to use the grand mother to help with taking care of the child even though the grand mother and the mother don't live in the same place. Don't know how to put this - you open the door for a possibility that could have been closed had you handled it better. Bad Idea. A father can normally force that if the mother does not take care of the child, then HE does it. But that is not as certain at all if the grand mother has been taking care of the child in the past, before you sue

Everything is about possession - are you going to get 3-4 or 2-5 or 4-3 or 5-2? Or something else perhaps? Practically, where is the child going to live is another important issue. The child currently lives in Surin! - if you get 3-4 or 4-3 and you live and work in Bangkok, how are you going to be able to use it? Same with 2-5 or 5-2 actually, the court will see to both the father and the mother of course. Parents separating is always difficult for the child but the child should be able to see / be with both her father and her mother, you parents live in different cities then it is a fact of life that you practically can affort to travel to the child when it is your turn but the mother probably cannot. I am not saying that it necessarilly will affect the judgement but it could. School in Bangkok could be a way to try to get the child to Bangkok or where ever you live. Note how I write - The child has a right to see / be with both her parents, I don't write - both the parents have the right to see / be with the child. Get used to that way of thinking - any decision will be made in the best interest of the child, that's how the judges here will decide and that is how you should think too, what is best for the child. A bit different from the western way that puts more emphasis on parents rights etc, here the Childs Best Always Comes First

What are you doing now to be a good father (not the wallet)? What is the mother doing? How often do you see the child? The mother? How can you show that you are better for the child? How much are you directly involved in the childs upbringing?

You wil get shared custody - can you get the child over to you now before you sue? That would improve your chances or getting more possession - you will get possession anyway, I am talking about more possession

How much money do you pay for the child now? Legal minimum for a 3 year old is somewhere around 100 bath per day, what you pay now will perhaps influence decision about how much to pay in the future. Many Thai mothers in Thailand have been taken to court and literally been taken down by officials being happy to tell them that they are entitled to 3,100 bath per month in child support, no more... Oupps, many Thai mothers has come there expecting much more and left almost empty-handed, well, approx. 3,100 bath per month. I'm not saying that it is bad to pay 4,000 bath per month for the Child, or 5,000 bath even, but no need to get crazy and pay 10,000 bath per month, that is surely not going to help you getting more possession in a court of law. Money you pay to your ex is for the child only of course, not for her, money for her is not going to benefit you getting more possession of the child out of the judges, it could of course benefit you in the sense that the mother could be more inclined to accept that you get more possession. Bargaining with money is a perfectly acceptable tool to get more possession

Please post more information and I will be able to advice better - stop worrying about custody SixNine, you will get shared custody

Good Luck

Edited August 27, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[MikeyIdea]

Lawyers in Bangkok - expect USD 2,000 to USD 4,000 for a full custody case, that include legitimzation (legally being recognised as father) and a contested custody case. 70,000 is probably a bit cheap, lawyer may not be able to speak very good English for that, USD 4,000 and you get a good lawyer who speaks good English. Expect pretty much the same price also if the custody is not contested.

I would expect 100,000 to 140,000 bath, IsaanLawyers are probably around the upper amount for a Bangkok case, I have no idea what they change in Isaan. IsaanLawyers are definately a good or very good choice in the North-East, I am not sure they are a good choice in Bangkok = do they have lawyer Specialising in Family Law working in Bangkok? By the way, family law is a specialised area and make sure that you really get a lawyer with experience in Family Law, not criminal or other civil law. There are many lawyers in Thailand who knows little about family law and custody battles, avoid them

Good Luck, again

[mkawish]

Lawyers in Bangkok - expect USD 2,000 to USD 4,000 for a full custody case, that include legitimzation (legally being recognised as father) and a contested custody case. 70,000 is probably a bit cheap, lawyer may not be able to speak very good English for that, USD 4,000 and you get a good lawyer who speaks good English. Expect pretty much the same price also if the custody is not contested.

I would expect 100,000 to 140,000 bath, IsaanLawyers are probably around the upper amount for a Bangkok case, I have no idea what they change in Isaan. IsaanLawyers are definately a good or very good choice in the North-East, I am not sure they are a good choice in Bangkok = do they have lawyer Specialising in Family Law working in Bangkok? By the way, family law is a specialised area and make sure that you really get a lawyer with experience in Family Law, not criminal or other civil law. There are many lawyers in Thailand who knows little about family law and custody battles, avoid them

Good Luck, again

Whatever happens to my response to MikeyIdea's two prior posts. LOL Somehow they just did not make it to be displayed here.

Well, they may not worth much anyway. LOL

Edited August 27, 2010 by mkawish

[soundman]

There seem to ba few similarities between your case and my friend's case.

You can read about his "custody battle" here.

[MikeyIdea]

The link disappeared Soundman:

sixnine, I upload a notepad file with the link in, you can also go to to the Family and children sub forum and move back in time till November 2008. You will find the international child custody issue... thread there.

- www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/222371-international-child-custody-issues-and-thai-courts/

HeresTheLink.txt

[SixNine]

Well, as i said in my first post, its a long, sad story...

I seperated from my EX-GF when she was pregnant. The fact that she was pregnant was NOT the point to seperate from her.

We was thinking about seperating when she was in 2nd month pregnant, and we still didnt knew it.

We knew about her pregnancy in 3rd month...

She went back to surin when she knew about her pregnancy and i supported her as much as i could.

Even though we wasn´t a couple, i always wanted the best for her. I didnt love her (that was the reason why we seperated when i got aware of that), but at least i liked her very much.

So when my child was born, the first 6 month my ex-GF stayed in surin for get help to care for the baby....

After 6 month my ex asked me if i can help her come back to BKK, to work, but i was playing with the idea to move to HuaHin.

First my ex didnt want that, but after many discussions, finally she agreed....

I found a nice house for her in HH, at least i always wanted my baby grow up in a "more western style", and this mean for me also living in a nice place....

Living in nice places makes people happy...

So i rented an house for my ex (10.000 baht) and my support for her (the baby) was 15.000.

I didnt wanted my ex or my baby lack anything....

I have to say, that my ex wasnt like many people hear in many storys about thai girls want to rip off the farang. She wasnt like that at that point.

She´s just a normal girl, at that point very western style, also about the logic and thinking....

She found a very good job in HuaHin at an 5 star hotel (receptionist and hostess) and her mother (grandma) moved with my baby to HH to take care of her...

This was the point my suffering began....

I also moved to HH and visited my daughter every monday and spent all day with her, because that was the day my ex had day off... But i also sometimes dropped by to say hi....

I wanted my baby to see both parents at least 1 day a week, all day!

This worked for the first 2 years....

They i realized that something is going wrong... Sometimes when i just dropped by, grandmother was drunk and had problems to take care of my princess...

I spoke with my ex about that and she told me she would take care of that.

But she couldnt because her working hours was from 2pm to 2am, so grandma had mostly "nothing in the way"...

My baby was getting obstreperous and grandmas "drunk" days was getting more and more.

So i had the idea to move together to a big house. At least i was paying 15.000 for my own rent and 10.000 for my ex-gf rent.

So i spoke with ex-gf and told her my thoughts...

My plan was that we move together. Everyone get own sleeping rooms, the house had 3...

At that point my daughter was very affixed to grandma and it was nearly impossible to grandma not be around. My baby really got hysteric if she didnt saw grandma even 1-2 minutes...

I didnt understand why, because before, my baby always enjoyed to go with me play somewhere... But at this point she didnt want me or my ex-gf.

Well, ex-gf could have a room, grandmother with baby one room and me one room.

My plan was also to acclimatize baby to me and my ex-gf because she was drifting away more and more.

Then after an time period of 6 month the plan was to send grandma back to surin because this is wat she always wanted.

She always told me (when i caught her drunk again) that she miss her village and wanted go back.

I would put daughter in kindergarten and hire a nanny to help me with my baby after kindergarten´s out until bed time...

I also told my ex gf that i will never control her life and she was free to do whatever she wanted and with whoever she wanted. And if she would find another boyfriend, then we could sit together again and think about an solution also for the new situation...

Well, as i say, everyone agreed to that... But then (when we moved together) my nightmare began...

I was always struggle to be polite, nice and good to them and specially to my daughter, but they treated me like a dog... (exept my baby of course).

Grandma drunk more and more, they didnt cook for me.... In front of my daughter grandma always insulting me (i sayed calm)... Until the day i caught grandma telling my baby:

Papa dont love u nadia... Mama dont love u... Grandma is your real mama....

I was shocked, extremely... Now i had the answer why baby was drifting away from us... Even she was only 2 years, she understood, i guess...

I confronted grandma with this words, and in drunk state she lied to my face, even swear in front of her buddha shrine that she didnt say it...

I was very very furious about this lie and told my ex gf..

She was shocked too and really mad with her mother, even insulting her...

At least my ex apologized to me and told me she will talk with her mother...

But i caught grandma doing this more times....

And grandma really did bad things to me, it was kind of psycho terror...

I told my ex gf that its time to grandma leave...

I told her if grandma not leave she will affect our child and baby would start to hate us...

She agreed to my reasoning at this point.

I also was still nice to grandma, i didnt want she lose her face by people thinking we threw her out.

So i gave her the chance to prepare her return to surin, by telling people that my baby now was grown up enough to stay with her parents and that grandma-caring is not necessary any more.

This would be fine for everyone...

EX agreed in everything.

Next day she wanted to talk to grandma and tell her the new agreement...

But next day nothing happened... And next day, and next day....

So after one week i asked her about the outcome of her speaking...

She told me that grandma is going nowhere and if i dont want her around me i am free to leave...

I asked her to think about it again, and SPECIALLY think about whats best for our baby. My question was: DO U REALLY WANT OUR DAUGHTER HATE US WHEN SHE GROW UP?

My ex at this point did hear herself grandma was talking to baby that we dont love her...

But she refused to send grandma back...

My life was like hel_l at that time... Grandma psycho terror, ex started it too and baby didnt wanted to stay with me...

One day, after 4 month living together, i couldnt any more. I couldnt take it any more, seeing my baby is going to hate me.

One more time i asked my ex-gf to please ask her mother to leave and hire a nanny... She refused and told me that i am free to go...

GThats what i did that day... I packed the most important things, put into my car, took motorbike to an friend, told my ex-gf to burn everything i left in the house because i won´t come back, huged my baby and just left.

My ex-gf was seeing what i am doing and not one time she asked me to stay...

I left to an friends house, cutted all money transfers to ex-gf... And i didnt contact her for 4 weeks... Time enough to she think over...

But she didnt... She moved out the house because she couldnt pay the rent and moved to a very "cheap" apartment... I saw it after 2 month and i was shocked...

Well, after 4-5 weeks a lot of crying (i thought i wouldt see my baby for years) i found out where ex.gf was living with grandma and contacted her...

I agreed to help with 5000 baht for swaddling bands, milk, cloth and things baby needed...

Ex-GF sent grandma back to surin (with my baby) for withdrawal treatment... ALL THE TIME i was asking my ex-gf tomplease give my daughter to me until everything is ok again. At least it would be better then send her to surin with grandma.

But she always refused.

I also coudnt cut all money of my support, because at least it would be my baby who suffers....

So i had no chance until now to get my daughter living with me.

But now time is off... I cant live with that, and at least no one showed ever mercy to me or specially to baby, so why should i mercy one of them?

It passed 6 month now, today baby have b-day and i am in germany right now... Full of new energy to come back and fight for my daughter...

Thats the story...

[soundman]

The link disappeared Soundman:

sixnine, I upload a notepad file with the link in, you can also go to to the Family and children sub forum and move back in time till November 2008. You will find the international child custody issue... thread there.

- www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/222371-international-child-custody-issues-and-thai-courts/

Must be some caching issue. (The embedded link is the same as the one you have listed above)

Link works when I click on it.

Thanx.

[mkawish]

Well, as i said in my first post, its a long, sad story...

....But now time is off... I cant live with that, and at least no one showed ever mercy to me or specially to baby, so why should i mercy one of them?

It passed 6 month now, today baby have b-day and i am in germany right now... Full of new energy to come back and fight for my daughter...

Thats the story...

A touching story. I am very empathetic.

If the mother of your child has her opportunity to also tell her side of the story, would she be saying pretty much the same thing as you said here?

Nevertheless, I wish you the very best.

When you come back and if you need someone to speak in your behalf to see if there is some room among you, your ex and the mother-in-law, to work out something more amicably;

you can pm or email me and I would be more than happy to speak to them in Thai language on your behalf. I can speak, read, write and communicate in Thai at the native level.

Personally, I really think you deserve to be a lot happier as the contributing father who is able, willing and ready, than what you are going through at the moment, regardless whether you are telling us the truth, the whole truth or not.

We are cheering for you.

Edited August 27, 2010 by mkawish

[SixNine]

Hi mkawish,

first thank you for your offer to help me if i need. I will ask u to help if i see that its necessary...

I am not an fragile person... I am 36, good looking and i was always self confident. I am the type of "mother-in-laws-darling" or "everybodys darling".

But what happened to me in the last 5 years its an really long story, and i dont want to tell everyone as well... Its too much...

Well, i have to say that this isnt the whole story... I can say that i always tried to be good to my ex and help where i could...

I did so many things (before of this part of the story) and never got an simple "thank you" back...

I am an person who is happy when everybody around is happy too. And i like to give and to share....

No one really believed me, what was going on, specially in that time or that house we lived together.

I never did something bad to anyone, many times i had to bite the bullet and also bite on my tongue for not speak out what i wanted to say...

I always tried my best for everyone (included my ex-gf) dont lose their faces....

Do anyone think i am an masorchist or like to suffer? No i dont...

Do anyone think that i wanted to live with my ex and her mother? No i didnt wanted....

In the end, i always thought about my daughter, this is the only i was thinking of, to give her an good home and good life... Even if its not comfortable for me...

But my ex-gf didnt think of her daughter, because if she would do it, she would have seen the MANY chances i gave her, not only that time by living together for an time until baby grew up and understand...

Before of this chance, i made so many good things, so many chances for her to give an good life to our baby. She always agreed and (with pressure from her mother), later refused everything....

U know very well, this is issaan style. Her mother mean more to her then her own daughter.... This is my point of view...

At this time in that house i called my best friend every day telling him the new storys of the past day... I had to speak with someone...

It was a running gag to lighten up my day even in this bad and psychological destructing situation...

I lost about 20% of my weight and was in an bad psychological situation because i couldnt take it any more what was happening and how things had reached a pretty pass... After all my efforts....

And the worst was that baby was drifting away and i couldnt do much to change it...

Do u know this family: Click

My best friend always asked me: tell me the latest news of the flodder family..... The only time in the day i could smile, even if it was sad....

Of course my ex-gf have another point of view... She always keep telling me: u had the chance to be with your daughter but u left.... Its a mockery....

Even my best friend didnt really believe me first, (and his thai wife), even though they know that i NEVER lie...

When i left HuaHin i went to his house and lived there for 2 month.

After the first month of non contact with my ex, we started to talk on phone, and i always let my best friend and wife listen to what me and my ex-gf was speaking.

In résumé i have to say, that after the first 2-3 phone calls they believed me... They was speechless how my ex treated me and the kind of logic she showed up to protect her mother...

Even if it meant my daughter have to suffer... in the end is always the child who suffers...

Triying to make me the one who was guilty and triying to change the facts... But she is a bad liar and not good at distortion, so we catched her several times triying to distort everything.

Lucky me that i had witnesses, i really started to think that i was the one who have a mental problem...

I couldnt believe how she changed under the influence of her mother...

Now i know i did everything right and i will show very very few mercy to my ex and family....

Edited August 27, 2010 by SixNine

[SixNine]

Ah yes... I forgot... Thanks everyone for your replies...

[phuketrichard]

first thing you have to understand is the thai family courts are concerned about only one thing and you and your ex stand on the same ground. They want the best for the child. If you can porve to the court that the best interest lie in her living with you then do so, BUT u will need to show that you have a good job, place for the child to live, someone always there to care for her, willing to send her to as good school. etc etc.

in a word also ur mother in law has no say or standing with the court so to hel_l with her. Get it to court and dont be a good guy, think of the future for ur daughter. The longer you wiat the more bullshit your ex's relatives will fill the childs head with

I went thur this and it was relatively painless as my ex only wanted money ( we settled for 150,000 baht) and i received full custody and the divorce, Lawyer costs were 60,000 baht (6 years ago here in Phuket)and it took about 8 months from when we first filed till the final decision.

[Mario2008]

The most important thing to do is to get everything on record. Keep a diary about what you do whit the child, what you see the mother doing and the grandmother, who pays for what, etc. Video would even be better. It all amounts to proof.

[MikeyIdea]

Believe it or not, this is unfortunately a fairly common story. This happens everyday almost. PhuketRichard is absolutely correct in what he writes, the childs best is what matters in court, the grand mother is Nothing, correct, but here I must add - unless you allow her to be - don't allow her to take care of the child

I'll throw out thoughts as they come

You have (most likely) paid way too much money. Start correcting that right now. Legally, we're talking about a hundred bath per day or so, judges don't like fathers who don't pay at all of course, but paying more than necessary is not helping you either. I recommend to pay 3,500 bath per month, maximum 4,000 bath per month and make sure that you transfer it to the mothers account every month so that you have evidence of it. You should also pay hospital bills for the child only and demand the receipts. Be hard: Stop paying for hospital bills if the receipts never materialise. Document in diary and keep evidence. The court will (actually) respect that you take the decision to pay only when the mother has receipts and refuse to pay when the mother have no receipts to show. Unfortunately, also 3,500 bath per month is more than enough for the grand mother to take care of the child in Surin without working... and fill herself with booze

Here's a phrase that I have heard my lawyer say several times - You are the father, if the child does not stay with the mother then you as the father have the right to demand that the child stays with you. The child stays either with the mother or the father, full stop. Now, this applies when the father lives in Thailand, a father can hardly demand that the mother is handing the child over to the father and he goes abroad with her. The reason for that is : At the end of the day, you can never take away the mothers visitation rights totally (unless she agrees to it or the court sees that she's dangerous for the child) and that is a problem - if you take the child abroad, then in practice you do. I think a court could accept a deal where the father guarantees that he will take the child to Thailand once per year for a few weeks for the child to see her mother but I have never actually heard it happening and it's not going to be easy. That would definitely require that the judges can see that the mother is not suitable to take care of the child and that the father is a good father, presentable and trustworthy.

Mario2008 writes well, the most important thing is that you keep record, get evidence

A mother will never go against her grand mother, this is not only Isaan style, it's the same in the North and to lesser extent everywhere in Thailand. It was not expected that the mother would go against the grand mother regardless of if it is bad for the child or not. It is normally Not that the mother loves her mother more than her own child but what can she do?

You have been too kind - Thai women don't know how to handle that, they are used to have to fight against men pushing them down, when they end up in a relationship where they don't have to fight, then they don't realise that and keeps fighting, and they end up in a power situation and loses respect. Lose respect = look down. The mother would not have treated you like a door mat if you had demanded respect and been harder (especially on money, don't underestimate the power of money)

If you have no evidence of the grand mother drinking, then it never happened - Well, not quite, it could still be used to get you more possession though because - You are the father and you have the right to worry about your child. The father worries about the child being with a grand mother who he himself has seen so drunk that she couldn't even take care of herself, how can she take care of the child when she's so drunk that she can't even take care of herself? Words like that bite. The court will accept that you are firm where you have the right to be firm - I am the father and I will never accept that a person with alcohol problems take care of my child full stop, or I will never accept that my child stays with a person who has alcohol problems full stop. Regardless of if you have evidence - it is your right as father to force this (unless it is the mother, if it is the mother, then you need the courts help with forcing it)

One thing you can do if you handle this correctly is to force the mother and the grand mother to live in the same place, if you pay close to legal minimum, then mother can't take care of the child without help. And you can force that if child is not with mother, then she is to be with you - This is once you are legitimized and have shared custody of course. Remember that before you are legitimized, then you are not even a legal father of your own child

I'm curious on this: What's the reason the mother does not live with the grand mother and the child? I would think that you pay enough for the mother to stay with the grand mother in Surin and take care of the child without working, why doesn't the mother do that? Doesn't she want to stay with the grand mother and the child? Can you use this somehow? How?

If you don't pay at least 3,100 bath per month for the child now and have done since you left her with the mother, then you are not looking very good when it comes to getting the majority of the possession of the child. Evidence

As always, best chances you have (unless you have good video evidence of the grand mother being an alcoholic and the mother of being a bad mother) is for you to negotiate with the mother. You will find that the courts want to negotiate extensively anyway, judges don't want to order, they know that parents are unlikely to want to honour their orders, they want the parents to agree, better chance of the parents keeping the agreement then.

School age is coming, good. Mother has no financial possibility to give child anything else then the standard government education, you do. You are prepared to pay for a good private kindergarten but only if You decide which one of course

Soundman's friend used Tilleke-Gibbons. They would probably charge at least double the amounts I gave or more, are they really necessary?

Soundman's friend paid an undisclosed amount cash too, probably 7 digits in bath

DO push down the mothers throat that you have contacted lawyer to find out about your rights as father in Thailand and that you are very pleased to hear that you have the same rights as a Thai father. 2 things here; 1) Thais normally think that westerners have "less" rights because they are not Thai. As this is not true, let the mother know so that it leaves no doubt that she understands. 2) Many Thais know and Thais do understand that "the one who can take care of the child the best gets the child". No matter how uneducated, they do think practically about this and understand that the child goes to the parent who has the best possibility to take care of the child - more or less of course. They may not understand the meaning of possession clearly but they understand the concept. Do push through to the mother that it applies when father is western too. You will probably never be able to take away the mothers visitation rights legally unless you buy them from her (by paying her for sole custody) so do explain that she will be able to visit her child - if she can afford to! These truths will make the mother wake up, she should have been told a few years ago but better late than never

DO push down the mothers throat that you will never allow the child to live with the grand mother again after you have been to court. Let the mother get used to the thought.

Don't hide behind the law when you talk to the mother, it's time for You to step up - As father I do not accept this and that... and back it up with the law. The mother will be obnoxious but when she is, be sure to let the mother know that it is the best for the child and that you will take this to court and that the court will order what is the best for the child. Let the mother get used to the thinking - it is the best for the child. You must be prepared and able to step up and be a good (daily) father for the child and the mother must step up and take on that challenge to have a chance. Let the mother get used to that

If you're lucky, then the mother won't show up in court. You will eventually get sole custody if she does not. The mother can actually show up without a lawyer if she doesn't have money for one but don't tell her that

As PhuketRichard writes - Get it to court and dont be a good guy, think of the future for ur daughter

Time to be hard and matter-of-fact

Good Luck

Mikey

Edited August 30, 2010 by MikeyIdea