Land With No Chinote

[canuckamuck]

Maybe this has been discussed before but we are looking for a property, and occasionally we see land available with no chinote (spelling?). Since these places are for sale I assume it is legal to buy them, and I am sure people do buy them; but we are uncomfortable with the idea of investing in something that might just vanish. Has anyone here been able to get a chinote for land that previously had none?

Edited August 27, 2010 by canuckamuck

[trogers]

A previous Thai PM just lost his land and house. This should be a good example for you.

[taninthai]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/385684-upgrade-tor-bor-ha-to-nor-sor-samchanote/

other threads on here advise leave well alone thais may buy and sell this land but whats good for one is not good for another.................

[liveinlos]

Never assume in Thailand

[InterestedObserver]

A Chanote is the ultimate title deed and supposed to be 100% secure. For a foreigner to get involved with anything less is risky. TIT!

[sangfroid]

Would you buy a piece of land in your own country without getting a title deed? of course not. DOUBLY so here!!

[T_Dog]

Canuck, Take your better half to the land office when you have land in question and they can tell you if it is possible, how long it will take, etc. There is one type of land (which sounds something like nor sor 3) that can usually convert in less than 30 days. The land office is your best bet for answers. Other types will not convert, or will have long approval delays. Search on this topic and you'll find more scoop.

[PoorSucker]

Here on Samui it's not the question about how long it will take.

It's a question about how much you're willing to pay.

I got an offer on 1 million baht to make 12 rai to Chanote.

Edited August 27, 2010 by PoorSucker

[Arjay]

Foolish I say. Bad enough falang ownership needing company formation or the "wifey". How fast you want to loose your money?

[BB1950]

Never assume in Thailand

The same is true everywhere!

To the OP:

Would you buy land in your own country without a title deed and title records search?

Did you know that in Thailand, much of the land is occupied by squatters and has no Chinote?

Did you know a lot of land for sale in Thailand has also been mortgaged and can't be sold till the debt is cleared?

Did you know a Chinote can be issued to a Thai occupant under a special condition, but it can't be transfered?

There is a 1 rai plot of land across from mine. The Thai occupant, has mortgaged it to the hilt. Now the occupant is trying to sell the land, after it has been repossessed by the bank. The occupant has no right to even live there, let alone sell it. She's just looking for another SUCKER to scam! She provides sexual favors the local Police commander, so she isn't forced off the property. The land is in her mentally retarded son's name, so there's all sorts of pending litigation by the bank. It's a real legal mess!

I know of another case where the owner was trying to sell a plot of land and had a proper Chinote. However the land being sold did not match the Chinote. The actual land was about 500 meters away! It was when the land office came out to survey the land, was it discovered. The property marker seals had disappeared many years ago.

I my case, I had bought some property. I did all the search and verification, but did not have the land office come out and survey. We had checked the existing markers and they appeared correct. When I started to build the fence wall, the owner of the neighboring lot got very angry and claimed I was starting to build on her land. I immediately had the land office come out and survey in both her and my presence. Turns out all the markers were indeed off by 70cm. The plots were part of a larger plot which was used for planting tapioca. When the tractor plowed the fields the markers ended up getting moved.Thank god we caught it before construction!

You really need to see the Chanote and make sure it has the red seal emblem at the top, to even consider buying it. You also need to verify the property marker seals. by having the land office come out and survey to make sure.

If Chanote has a green emblem, it means there is a lean or some other restriction with the sale of the property. The borrower could have defaulted and try to sell you the 'bad' paper.

[canuckamuck]

Thanks for all the input so far, I have not put anything in motion, just wanted to know about what if?

If you guys think of anything else let me know.

[yabaaaa]

Someone once sold London bridge didnt they?? Happens everywhere.

[yabaaaa]

A Chanote is the ultimate title deed and supposed to be 100% secure. For a foreigner to get involved with anything less is risky. TIT!

And Nor sor sam Gor.

[donx]

You have received some very good information from others. I agree with most of the responses. The only reason I am replying is because I want you to know that there are some of us out here that have purchased land without a Chanote land title with favorable results.

In my case, this was all performed by my Thai wife while she was in Thailand and I was back home in the US. My perspective was for us to stay away from any land purchase that didn't have a Chanote. The land that my wife purchased was agricultural land with rubber trees. After disagreeing with my wife I let her go ahead and purchase 27 rai of land for 35,000 baht/rai. The purpose of the purchase was to provide her family with a means for supporting themselves - we buy the land, they collect, sell and make money off the rubber trees.

This was in 2005. We ended up selling 17 rai for 50,000 baht/rai 2 years later. The other 10 rai is now being harvested by her family. The type of land title for this land is Sor Tor Gor.

In addition to land my wife purchased, she has inherited land that is also not Chanote and is expected to someday be converted to Chanote. When that will happen is anyone's guess. We were told the land department "passed us by" because we were not in Thailand when they were upgrading the land titles in that area.

You can read posts in this forum from others that have received or purchased land that doesn't have a Chanote. Some had good experiences and others have not. I completely agree that foreigners have no business buying anything other than Chanote land. Fortunately or not, my wife wouldn't listen to me. It turned out good for us but it could have just as easily gone the other way.

[canuckamuck]

Thank you for that Donx

[evanson]

Since these places are for sale I assume it is legal to buy them [uNQUOTE]

WHY do you assume it is legal to buy them?! Just because someone put a FOR SALE sign outside it, even listed it withh a 'real estate' agent? Some maggot tried (and almost succeeded) in selling the property of a friend of mine, whilst she was in hospital.

I've lived here for years, and still cannot get my head around the utter stupidity of many of the people who move here. It's the 'well it's only a third world country and we can do what we like' mentality. I am here to disavow you of this ridiculous and presumptuous view.

Edited August 28, 2010 by evanson

[LivinLOS]

Here on Samui it's not the question about how long it will take.

It's a question about how much you're willing to pay.

I got an offer on 1 million baht to make 12 rai to Chanote.

Depends on what from.. Making nor sor sam gor chanote can be done readily enough.. Turning sor por kor chanote brought down the last democrat government.

[canuckamuck]

Hey, I was just finding out information dude. That how we keep from being utterly stupid.

Are you always this unctuous?

[kwonitoy]

Hey, I was just finding out information dude. That how we keep from being utterly stupid.

Are you always this unctuous?

Canuckamuck:

The wife and I have bought several pieces of land without a Chanote, some had the little round survey makers in the corner and some did not. If not a government surveryor was hired and he then chained in the land and installed the round concrete markers. Then once a year for only a couple of days(in our area) you go to a village office and register the survey results. They have asked for a witness everytime, usually a neighbor or someone who owns land nearby to verify the basic measurments. Now you wait. Some of the land we then got notified in one year to go to the local Ampuher office where they hand out the chanotes, also only done on one day of the year. If you miss your day to register or pick up the chanote it can drag into years. But so far we have bought four pieces of land and received the chanotes for all four.

A fellow canuck

[canuckamuck]

That is very interesting Kwontoy, can you say what type of papers the lands had before you got the chanote.

LivingLos, sorry my response after your s seems like it is directed at you, I was commenting on Evanson's post.

[kwonitoy]

On three of the four there was no paper that I saw, but then the wife deals with everything, I'm just the driver and paymaster.

We had to hire and pay for the surveyor on these as I said before, and I got the impression that it was sort of like crown land in Canada. The wife got 10 Rai of rice land by inheritance from her mother and it was done by her mother staking a claim to it years ago and then improving the land from bush to farmland. We got the chanote after the survey and registering at the land office. We've also done this with two plots of planted rubber trees bought from outsiders.

I don't know about all the different land classifications, just what we've done.

I wouldn't recommend doing this by any means, but it worked for us. The huge extended family knows everyone in the area and who's full of BS so that's the safety net

[ESB7]

Here on Samui it's not the question about how long it will take.

It's a question about how much you're willing to pay.

I got an offer on 1 million baht to make 12 rai to Chanote.

And when there is an audit, which there will be at some future stage, you are informed that your Chanote is not real/fake/unregistered/worthless...if memory serves me correct, Sept 2006 was the last time, just after the encroachment and Bandidos episodes on Samui...