Expats--How Long Wiil You Stay?

[gguy]

Recently had a health emergency.

Got me to thinking. How old is too long for Pattaya?

When, or if, should a person plan on returning to his country primarily for free??? health coverage?

[cardholder]

What a tough question to face up to. Mostly, we all think we are invincible.

Once the small brain stops working we will have different perspective.

After that, and perhaps bits start to drop off or become less/non-functional , we will know when the time is right.

My Wills state that I wish to be cremated in the country in which I die - I have no pressing desire to rush back (to the country of my birth) to be burned at 900 degrees s opposed to a slow burn on charcoal,

Slightly odd really as I own a 10% stake in a crematorium

[BB1950]

My home country does not offer free health services.

Everything is expensive there.

Everything has changed.

Why go back?

This is home now. :jap:

[craigt3365]

Same with me. But we have plans in 4-5 years to live elsewhere. Not sure where and we will probably rent out our house and then move back here for eternity!

[nikkoid66]

I know a nurse who took care of a German farang until he died here in Pattaya. She was feeding/cleaning him, and was very nice him. She said she think he was happy to die here rather than in Germany, and she tried to be as nice as possible with him even when he was really sick and yakyak on everybody. He died in her arm and she said his eyes were saying thank you. After that she did all the paperwork and organized the cremation, and sold his apartment. She never got anything from him, only her paycheck and nothing after he died. She sent the money and everything else to his kids in Germany, no one came in Thailand.

Sad story, but there are some really warm heart here in Thailand, dying in Europe can be horrible in these specialized place where you are not considered like an human being anymore...

[jori]

Excellent question, think everybody has dwelled on this question for quite a while. Those with property obviously are not as mobile as renters so are more flexible, that in mind is a comfort as within a few weeks it is possible to have flown the nest if things go awry.

There are other factors too at play as to how long your stay is going to be, health for one, cost of living, but I get the general impression the welcome mat here in Thailand is gradually being pulled up. The political uncertainty for one, the visa issues, forthcoming police checks,( no ,no issues here)the general harassment of living in a culturally different country as this

Who knows? this week ,this month, this year, but most definitely in the foreseeable future 'bye, ‘bye Thailand

[chops]

wouldn't want to return back to my former country. i don't even really consider myself a citizen of that country anymore(US). the place is a disaster and going downhill.

ultimately, i'll give up my citizenship in the US and sever all ties. i'm here for good.

[Jingthing]

Life has taught me never say never. Especially on retirement extensions here, we are only here on a one year leash anyway! I would like to stay here for life, at least that's what I want NOW, but things can and do change.

[Ulysses G.]

My home country does not offer free health services.

Everything is expensive there.

Everything has changed.

Why go back?

This is home now. :jap:

I feel the same.

[Phil Conners]

Excellent question, think everybody has dwelled on this question for quite a while. Those with property obviously are not as mobile as renters so are more flexible, that in mind is a comfort as within a few weeks it is possible to have flown the nest if things go awry.

There are other factors too at play as to how long your stay is going to be, health for one, cost of living, but I get the general impression the welcome mat here in Thailand is gradually being pulled up. The political uncertainty for one, the visa issues, forthcoming police checks,( no ,no issues here)the general harassment of living in a culturally different country as this

Who knows? this week ,this month, this year, but most definitely in the foreseeable future 'bye, ‘bye Thailand

I agree. They make it more and more complicated to remain here, even those of us with family and children here. I'm amazed how the stack of papers needed for my annual non-o visa is growing year by year. At some point it must stop and we must consider where next.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Phil Conners

[Ulysses G.]

I am always perplexed by this Thai Visa myth that it is getting more difficult to stay here.

When I first arrived, there were very few Westerners who could get longterm visas - even if they had money. We were all doing visa runs every 2-3 months (depending on the mood at the Thai embassy in Penang) and pretty much one had to go to Malaysia every time as there were no other land borders. I lived in Chiang Mai so it was quite a haul.

Eventually, it started easier to get visas in Thailand, but one had to keep going back to immigration and checking to see if it was granted - I can remember going back every month at least 3 times to get a "one year visa", but it would only be 9 months by the time you actually got it. At one time you also had to report in after 6 months to be allowed the second half on the "one year visa". Now most of us only have to go once and get a whole year on the spot.

Actually, it has gotten easier and easier. Yes, the minimum incomes have gone up, but so have prices and salaries all around the world, so what is unusual about that?

Another myth is the common claim these days that it is cheaper to live in a Western country. I do agree that many of us have less buying power than in the past and that sucks no matter what. However, in general, there is no way that it is cheaper to live in Blighty or Obama-land unless you insist on all the newest toys and trends in Thailand or are living with mom back home. There are tons of Thais living fairly comfortably on a few thousand baht per month, so it stands to reason that we can live cheaply too if we adjust our spending habits to where we are living.

OK, flame away.

[craigt3365]

I am always perplexed by this Thai Visa myth that it is getting more difficult to stay here.

When I first arrived, there were very few Westerners who could get longterm visas - even if they had money. We were all doing visa runs every 2-3 months (depending on the mood at the Thai embassy in Penang) and pretty much one had to go to Malaysia every time as there were no other land borders. I lived in Chiang Mai so it was quite a haul.

Eventually, it started easier to get visas in Thailand, but one had to keep going back to immigration and checking to see if it was granted - I can remember going back every month at least 3 times to get a "one year visa", but it would only be 9 months by the time you actually got it. At one time you also had to report in after 6 months to be allowed the second half on the "one year visa". Now most of us only have to go once and get a whole year on the spot.

Actually, it has gotten easier and easier. Yes, the minimum incomes have gone up, but so have prices and salaries all around the world, so what is unusual about that?

Another myth is the common claim these days that it is cheaper to live in a Western country. I do agree that many of us have less buying power than in the past and that sucks no matter what. However, in general, there is no way that it is cheaper to live in Blighty or Obama-land unless you insist on all the newest toys and trends in Thailand or are living with mom back home. There are tons of Thais living fairly comfortably on a few thousand baht per month, so it stands to reason that we can live cheaply too if we adjust our spending habits to where we are living.

OK, flame away.

Well put. I especially agree with you about living with Mom back home. I did that off and on for about 5 years! It was great! Free food, free booze...but have to admit the real reason was my father's health. He passed 2 years ago, but at least we got to spend some quality time before that. And what fun we had!

We went out last night and bought food for about 6 of us. Visited the local night time Issan restaurant...cart...whatever. We got 2 huge fish, lots of Issan dishes, rice, veggies, etc. All for 350B. Came back home, spread out the mat, and stuffed ourselves. Great fun...great food...cheap price. Try doing that back in Obama-land or Blighty.

[Naam]

I am always perplexed by this Thai Visa myth that it is getting more difficult to stay here.

When I first arrived, there were very few Westerners who could get longterm visas - even if they had money. We were all doing visa runs every 2-3 months (depending on the mood at the Thai embassy in Penang) and pretty much one had to go to Malaysia every time as there were no other land borders. I lived in Chiang Mai so it was quite a haul.

Eventually, it started easier to get visas in Thailand, but one had to keep going back to immigration and checking to see if it was granted - I can remember going back every month at least 3 times to get a "one year visa", but it would only be 9 months by the time you actually got it. At one time you also had to report in after 6 months to be allowed the second half on the "one year visa". Now most of us only have to go once and get a whole year on the spot.

Actually, it has gotten easier and easier. Yes, the minimum incomes have gone up, but so have prices and salaries all around the world, so what is unusual about that?

Another myth is the common claim these days that it is cheaper to live in a Western country. I do agree that many of us have less buying power than in the past and that sucks no matter what. However, in general, there is no way that it is cheaper to live in Blighty or Obama-land unless you insist on all the newest toys and trends in Thailand or are living with mom back home. There are tons of Thais living fairly comfortably on a few thousand baht per month, so it stands to reason that we can live cheaply too if we adjust our spending habits to where we are living.

OK, flame away.

no matter how hard i try i can't find any reason to "flame away". you have hit the nail on the head UG and most other negative comments and visa myths are nothing but irrelevant lukewarm farts from frustrated people who are obviously not capable of logical thinking.

:jap:

[Ulysses G.]

Thanks. That means a lot coming from you and I have to admit that, from time to time, I agree with some of your posts that are not in Outside the Box.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[bangkokburning]

Ulysses G - I think a bit of selective memory. Although you had to do a number of visa runs, even those living on TRs were assured of re-entry. Visas flowed like wine.Triples were common in Penang as they were in L.A. and D.C. Years ago it was a far better game for someone to live on TRs esp compared to a marriage visa. Visas could also be had in Myanmar and Cambodia. Thailand had very few living on retirement visas (I recall a NYT article), fewest in most/all countries for US expat and this they surmised was for the hasles of the retirement visa and ease of the TR.

Studying the retirement extension, I just see a new set of hassles every month. After you pay for all the periperal costs, its not even that much cheaper than doing a visa run (if you know how to do it) The system is wholly inflexible - its all about what Thai immigration wants and nothing about what a retiree might need, As jing stated - just a leash. Then there is the whim and arbitrariness of the person deciding your case. Whether their ignorance of their own convoluted laws or just money grubbing. What about the guys with kids that get told - no you can't live here any more and immigration to another country is not an option for wifey and kids?

Honestly, if you state that getting a retirement extension is now easier - who am I to say it is not, but the above is my perception. Also, appears you are pretty "settled". What about guys that want to move around the country and travel, that live in the sticks, That as even you mention in another thread, remember 1997 and have 2nd thoughts about Thai banks.

I cold live very cheaply in the US, the sticking point might be medical. Depends how you want to live. I would love to have a garden and embrace the Simplicity / Green movement. If you need a house with a/c and a big car and ,,,, well perhaps no, but thatis partly what got the US in the place that it is in,

I think prices are about parity on many, many things ..alcohol, supermarket items, rent (you pay less and get less space) -list is endless. Thailand is no longer a good value. You can have a small house, veggie garden and live very nicely. The only thing I see that is cheaper here off the top of my head is: street food, medical (higher end services), fruit and veggies not supermarket bought, meat. Bus transport remains a bargain for Thailand and throughout Asia (best/cheapest). On balance it is still cheaper - on balance, but that balance will change and bear in mind there are other costs for many of us - like me going home to visit my elderly parents each year.

No way I would come to Thailand on a holiday now. Airfare + costs of a package you could have a stellar holiday in the states. In fact, if I were from a western country I would take the oppty! US has a lot of very great natural beauty - Thailand is an overfished, polluted sprawl. It's had its day.

Many of us are just in the "what next" moment - it will take a lot to get us to move/change be it back to our home countries or another place. The stalwarts are the guys that have grown roots, families and are just too old and/or lazy - and have the resources to eek it out.

A person with the amount of cash required to stay in this country (not tied down by relationship or property they cant unload) on retirement extension, well, ...the world is their oyster,

PS: both you and Nam think things are easier, maybe that is your personal situation but I have read many, many times on this board of posters stating that their paperwork each year just gets thicker and thicker.

Edited August 29, 2010 by bangkokburning

[92302]

If you are thick it will be a struggle here and anywhere else you live.

[kenallday]

I will stay till it is time to go

[homeless007]

I am always perplexed by this Thai Visa myth that it is getting more difficult to stay here.

When I first arrived, there were very few Westerners who could get longterm visas - even if they had money. We were all doing visa runs every 2-3 months (depending on the mood at the Thai embassy in Penang) and pretty much one had to go to Malaysia every time as there were no other land borders. I lived in Chiang Mai so it was quite a haul.

Eventually, it started easier to get visas in Thailand, but one had to keep going back to immigration and checking to see if it was granted - I can remember going back every month at least 3 times to get a "one year visa", but it would only be 9 months by the time you actually got it. At one time you also had to report in after 6 months to be allowed the second half on the "one year visa". Now most of us only have to go once and get a whole year on the spot.

Actually, it has gotten easier and easier. Yes, the minimum incomes have gone up, but so have prices and salaries all around the world, so what is unusual about that?

Another myth is the common claim these days that it is cheaper to live in a Western country. I do agree that many of us have less buying power than in the past and that sucks no matter what. However, in general, there is no way that it is cheaper to live in Blighty or Obama-land unless you insist on all the newest toys and trends in Thailand or are living with mom back home. There are tons of Thais living fairly comfortably on a few thousand baht per month, so it stands to reason that we can live cheaply too if we adjust our spending habits to where we are living.

OK, flame away.

I agree, Thailand is 1 of the easiest countries in the world ref. permanent visa/stay (from 50), also Cambodia, Malaysia, PP and others offer similar simple and fast-track solutions. HL.

Edited August 29, 2010 by homeless007

[bangkokburning]

From my reading, Malaysia is way easier but requires 50K (and easy property ownership), the RP requires = funds as Thailand, but can stay for years on a tourist visa as Cambodia. India will give 10yrs to Americans and 5 years to Brits without financial requirements. Indonesia I hear is about 30k in paperwork per year, no doubt graft - doubtful reporting requirements. Things have changed in C/S America but 90 used to be common on entry and you could jump the border for another 90. Many counties in this region also allow tax free importation of personal property incl autos and allow property ownership.

homeless - Thailand is perhaps one of the easiest of 215 nations, but drill down on retirement destinations and I could not agree at all. All the above are easier. In fact every country you cite is easier, way easier.

EU gives 90 days come and go as you see fit as well. I'm sure Africa is wide open (Seychelles? Mauritius?) also.

Canada -

USA -

As Thailand becomes more expensive, many other countries come into play.

[craigt3365]

From my reading, Malaysia is way easier but requires 50K (and easy property ownership), the RP requires = funds as Thailand, but can stay for years on a tourist visa as Cambodia. India will give 10yrs to Americans and 5 years to Brits without financial requirements. Indonesia I hear is about 30k in paperwork per year, no doubt graft - doubtful reporting requirements. Things have changed in C/S America but 90 used to be common on entry and you could jump the border for another 90. Many counties in this region also allow tax free importation of personal property incl autos and allow property ownership.

homeless - Thailand is perhaps one of the easiest of 215 nations, but drill down on retirement destinations and I could not agree at all. All the above are easier. In fact every country you cite is easier, way easier.

EU gives 90 days come and go as you see fit as well. I'm sure Africa is wide open (Seychelles? Mauritius?) also.

Canada -

USA -

As Thailand becomes more expensive, many other countries come into play.

Sorry, but you just can't compare Thailand to India, Cambodia or Indo...even Malaysia. Just not on many people's radar for a variety of reasons. That's why so many of us are here! And putting up with visa issues....

As far as Central/South America, things are changing big time. Panama has revised it's policies to the point it is no long a good place to be. I've heard rumors the same has happened in Argentina.

EU: 90 in, then 90 out. Not acceptable.

Africa: Maybe South Africa, but only Cape Town...other than that, it's a zoo down there! Ha! That's a bit of a joke....

We spent the past 5 years traveling around looking for a good place to retire. Visited about 40 different countries. Everybody has their own thing, but for us, Thailand is #1...at least for now!

[somtampet]

I am always perplexed by this Thai Visa myth that it is getting more difficult to stay here.

When I first arrived, there were very few Westerners who could get longterm visas - even if they had money. We were all doing visa runs every 2-3 months (depending on the mood at the Thai embassy in Penang) and pretty much one had to go to Malaysia every time as there were no other land borders. I lived in Chiang Mai so it was quite a haul.

Eventually, it started easier to get visas in Thailand, but one had to keep going back to immigration and checking to see if it was granted - I can remember going back every month at least 3 times to get a "one year visa", but it would only be 9 months by the time you actually got it. At one time you also had to report in after 6 months to be allowed the second half on the "one year visa". Now most of us only have to go once and get a whole year on the spot.

Actually, it has gotten easier and easier. Yes, the minimum incomes have gone up, but so have prices and salaries all around the world, so what is unusual about that?

Another myth is the common claim these days that it is cheaper to live in a Western country. I do agree that many of us have less buying power than in the past and that sucks no matter what. However, in general, there is no way that it is cheaper to live in Blighty or Obama-land unless you insist on all the newest toys and trends in Thailand or are living with mom back home. There are tons of Thais living fairly comfortably on a few thousand baht per month, so it stands to reason that we can live cheaply too if we adjust our spending habits to where we are living.

OK, flame away.

no matter how hard i try i can't find any reason to "flame away". you have hit the nail on the head UG and most other negative comments and visa myths are nothing but irrelevant lukewarm farts from frustrated people who are obviously not capable of logical thinking.

:jap:

2 spot on posts,too many come on here moaning about little things,we could all learn about the thai way of living,and stop being middle class farts,even though we all like a few mod cons its not the end of the world if we didnt have some of them

[chuckd]

I am always perplexed by this Thai Visa myth that it is getting more difficult to stay here.

When I first arrived, there were very few Westerners who could get longterm visas - even if they had money. We were all doing visa runs every 2-3 months (depending on the mood at the Thai embassy in Penang) and pretty much one had to go to Malaysia every time as there were no other land borders. I lived in Chiang Mai so it was quite a haul.

Eventually, it started easier to get visas in Thailand, but one had to keep going back to immigration and checking to see if it was granted - I can remember going back every month at least 3 times to get a "one year visa", but it would only be 9 months by the time you actually got it. At one time you also had to report in after 6 months to be allowed the second half on the "one year visa". Now most of us only have to go once and get a whole year on the spot.

Actually, it has gotten easier and easier. Yes, the minimum incomes have gone up, but so have prices and salaries all around the world, so what is unusual about that?

Another myth is the common claim these days that it is cheaper to live in a Western country. I do agree that many of us have less buying power than in the past and that sucks no matter what. However, in general, there is no way that it is cheaper to live in Blighty or Obama-land unless you insist on all the newest toys and trends in Thailand or are living with mom back home. There are tons of Thais living fairly comfortably on a few thousand baht per month, so it stands to reason that we can live cheaply too if we adjust our spending habits to where we are living.

OK, flame away.

No flames from me either. Good post, UG.

I recall those endless train rides to Butterworth and 2-3 days in Penang to get the visas. Then I learned about Cambodia and the drive to Aranyaprathet made the visa turn-around somewhat easier, although it took me an all day drive to get it done.

Now we have the retirement visas and it is a snap. I go to Udorn with the proper paper work and am out of there in less than an hour, duly stamped for another year. Reporting every ninety days isn't difficult either.

I plan to stick around since I am settled in here. We have a comfortable home fully paid for with low upkeep, although I am not crazy about lawn cutting day. We have nearly 650 square meters of grass to cut with lots of trees scattered around. It becomes a big chore at times. We also own a place in Pattaya for get aways if needed.

I have no desire to return to the US. The last time I was there it was nearly unrecognizable to me. Too much political correctness, too many lawyers waiting to sue you, too many government bureaucrats ready to fill your day with red tape and too many restrictions on your everyday life. I only see it getting much worse under Obama.

I am settled in here and will likely die here.

[LennyW]

"Expats--How Long Wiil You Stay?

Are you going to die in Pattaya?"

Let's see now - die warm happy and relaxed in Pattaya or die of stress on a hospital waiting list in damp and dreary UK, easy decision for me!!

[Ulysses G.]

Ulysses G - I think a bit of selective memory. Although you had to do a number of visa runs, even those living on TRs were assured of re-entry.

I forgot to mention that the Thai embassy would have crackdown every so often and tell us to "go home". I was denied a tourist visa in both Singapore and Saigon for too many stamps and had to fly to a different embassy to get one. I remember a few people with Thai spouses who even got a "forbidden" stamp in their passports and could not get a visa at all. All of this is nothing new.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[sarahsbloke]

I am always perplexed by this Thai Visa myth that it is getting more difficult to stay here.

When I first arrived, there were very few Westerners who could get longterm visas - even if they had money. We were all doing visa runs every 2-3 months (depending on the mood at the Thai embassy in Penang) and pretty much one had to go to Malaysia every time as there were no other land borders. I lived in Chiang Mai so it was quite a haul.

Eventually, it started easier to get visas in Thailand, but one had to keep going back to immigration and checking to see if it was granted - I can remember going back every month at least 3 times to get a "one year visa", but it would only be 9 months by the time you actually got it. At one time you also had to report in after 6 months to be allowed the second half on the "one year visa". Now most of us only have to go once and get a whole year on the spot.

Actually, it has gotten easier and easier. Yes, the minimum incomes have gone up, but so have prices and salaries all around the world, so what is unusual about that?

Another myth is the common claim these days that it is cheaper to live in a Western country. I do agree that many of us have less buying power than in the past and that sucks no matter what. However, in general, there is no way that it is cheaper to live in Blighty or Obama-land unless you insist on all the newest toys and trends in Thailand or are living with mom back home. There are tons of Thais living fairly comfortably on a few thousand baht per month, so it stands to reason that we can live cheaply too if we adjust our spending habits to where we are living.

OK, flame away.

I have to agree as well.

Even not having to pay heating bills makes a big difference to me.

Back in the UK about $1400 a year, here nothing (I don't use air-con)

[jori]

From my reading, Malaysia is way easier but requires 50K (and easy property ownership), the RP requires = funds as Thailand, but can stay for years on a tourist visa as Cambodia. India will give 10yrs to Americans and 5 years to Brits without financial requirements. Indonesia I hear is about 30k in paperwork per year, no doubt graft - doubtful reporting requirements. Things have changed in C/S America but 90 used to be common on entry and you could jump the border for another 90. Many counties in this region also allow tax free importation of personal property incl autos and allow property ownership.

homeless - Thailand is perhaps one of the easiest of 215 nations, but drill down on retirement destinations and I could not agree at all. All the above are easier. In fact every country you cite is easier, way easier.

EU gives 90 days come and go as you see fit as well. I'm sure Africa is wide open (Seychelles? Mauritius?) also.

Canada -

USA -

As Thailand becomes more expensive, many other countries come into play.

Many of us are just in the "what next" moment - it will take a lot to get us to move/change be it back to our home countries or another place. The stalwarts are the guys that have grown roots, families and are just too old and/or lazy - and have the resources to eek it out.

A person with the amount of cash required to stay in this country (not tied down by relationship or property they cant unload) on retirement extension, well, ...the world is their oyster,

PS: both you and Nam think things are easier, maybe that is your personal situation but I have read many, many times on this board of posters stating that their paperwork each year just gets thicker and thicker.

This post has been edited by bangkokburning: Today, 08:39

All those quoting the good old days ,easy visas etc,are forgetting one thing technology is upon us all now,it was too difficult to do anything but put a stamp on documentations years ,now along with the registration of foreigners being undertaken on immigration computer systems other checking systems will be brought into play,anyone who thinks it will never change in Thailand is in for one nasty shock.

I fully agree it is the "what next" situation that will spring upon us,and that "what next" is always at the forefront of any planning as to which destination is next

PS Yanks do get get 10 year visas but have to be out of the country every six months for two months,then another 6 months and so on until the pattern of travel is picked up by immigration and a stop is put on it,just like the US, no more 5 year visas tho for UK

[Naam]

From my reading... India will give 10yrs to Americans and 5 years to Brits without financial requirements.

you need reading glasses! multiple entry visas valid for several years are indeed issued for a maximum stay of 90 days and then it's visa runs till you exceed 183 days in a calendar year. after that immigration will ask for a tax clearance certificate as you are liable to pay indian income tax on your worldwide income.

[jori]

From my reading... India will give 10yrs to Americans and 5 years to Brits without financial requirements.

you need reading glasses! multiple entry visas valid for several years are indeed issued for a maximum stay of 90 days and then it's visa runs till you exceed 183 days in a calendar year. after that immigration will ask for a tax clearance certificate as you are liable to pay indian income tax on your worldwide income.

I think you will find the information wrong.Now 6 months in 2 months out.Introduced 18 months ago because David Coleman Headly,US /Paki terrorist and the Mumbai shootings thing Anyway who the hel_l is interested in India.