The Ugly American

[electau]

On Australian ABC2-TV the film "The Ugly American" which had as one of the principle actors Marlon Brando. who represented the US Ambassador to (Sxxxx) as Thailand was renamed.

Set in Thailand and made by Columbia Pictures in 1963. Thailand was given a fictitious name and the "Freedom Road" as it was known in the film was mentioned as part of the US Aid package which was to promote democracy,otherwise the communists, ie,USSR and China would move in. Featured a couple of assinations, and in the parting scene shows the Ambassador ( Marlon Brando) talking on a black and white TV which is then switched off.

(The End).

To me it looked liked a US propaganda film showing what could happen to Thailand during the cold war and the average punter in the US could not care less.

I had heard of the "Ugly American" a book based on foreign policy in SE Asia but this was the first time one had seen the film.

The film also showed a TWA Boeing 707. Signage was in Thai script and English.

　

[moe666]

And what are you fishing for .

[electau]

And what are you fishing for .

One was wondering if any TV members had seen this film in the last 46 years and their comments, it certainly had a political message at the time.

Was it ever shown in Thailand?

[moe666]

And what are you fishing for .

One was wondering if any TV members had seen this film in the last 46 years and their comments, it certainly had a political message at the time.

Was it ever shown in Thailand?

I think I passed on it, didn't care for Brando, a self absorbed human if there ever was one.

[electau]

The main actor a Mr Marlon Brando, played the part of the new American Ambassador and his script represented the perceived ( by some) arrogant attitude to SE Asia in general.

　

[ballpoint]

I prefer a quiet American to an ugly one any day. Unfortunately, the former are overwhelmed by the latter.

[Deeral]

Anyone know where I can get a copy.

I'm more interested in content than subject views as the the character of the actors.

the influence of the US on Thailand since the war is like in so many other countries hugely profound and destabilizing and it would be interesting to see a contemporaneous view on this.

[craigt3365]

For us Americans, the good news comes from China. As they prosper and travel more they will for sure get the next award for "ugly".

You think Americans are loud, try traveling in China for a few months!

[anothertorres]

we only have 32 starting punters in America.

[Deeral]

For us Americans, the good news comes from China. As they prosper and travel more they will for sure get the next award for "ugly".

You think Americans are loud, try traveling in China for a few months!

I don't think you've understood the title of the movie.

[Hakuchi]

I prefer a quiet American to an ugly one any day. Unfortunately, the former are overwhelmed by the latter.

The Quiet American as we know him from a Graham Greene novel by the same name is a quite ugly American too.

[craigt3365]

For us Americans, the good news comes from China. As they prosper and travel more they will for sure get the next award for "ugly".

You think Americans are loud, try traveling in China for a few months!

I don't think you've understood the title of the movie.

Yep...understood and also saw it. I do like Brando...the movie was OK also...

I was primarily replying to Hakuchi's post....if people think American's are loud, try traveling with a bus load of Chinese. They are not good tourists...

[Hakuchi]

For us Americans, the good news comes from China. As they prosper and travel more they will for sure get the next award for "ugly".

You think Americans are loud, try traveling in China for a few months!

I don't think you've understood the title of the movie.

Yep...understood and also saw it. I do like Brando...the movie was OK also...

I was primarily replying to Hakuchi's post....if people think American's are loud, try traveling with a bus load of Chinese. They are not good tourists...

What?

I don't wrote any entry before your blame of the Chinese as the ugly.

And i think Deeral is right, i don't think you've understood the title of the movie.

[Genericnic]

And what are you fishing for .

One was wondering if any TV members had seen this film in the last 46 years and their comments, it certainly had a political message at the time.

Was it ever shown in Thailand?

I didn't see the movie but I did read the book.

The wikipedia entry for "Ugly American" (about the term) and "The Ugly American" (about the book) will give a good summary. I especially like the quote from the fictional Burmese journalist about Americans. It still holds true 50 years later. Having been in a number of parts of SE Asia, in each country I have encountered at least one (usually many more) that meet his description. I think it will take the Chinese a long time to catch up with us.

Just my $.02 worth.

[harrry]

Kukrit the ex Thai Prime Minister also featured in this film.

Here is an extract from his Encyclopedia entry.

quote

Thai politician, writer, and actor (b. April 20, 1911, Phitsanulok, Thailand--d. Oct. 9, 1995, Bangkok, Thailand), saw life imitate art when he became prime minister of Thailand several years after portraying the leader of a fictitious Southeast Asian country in the Marlon Brando film The Ugly American (1963). The son of a prince, Kukrit had the title Mom Rajawong. He was educated in Thailand and England and graduated from Queens College, Oxford, with a degree in politics, philosophy, and economics. When he returned to Thailand, he worked in the Finance Ministry and the

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/473935/Kukrit-Pramoj

end quote

Interestingly it was Kukrit who oversaw the departure of American forces from Thailand after the Vietnam war.

Edited August 30, 2010 by harrry

[gotlost]

A black and white 1963 movie being shown on a flight/ What a cheep airline.

Edited August 30, 2010 by gotlost

[harrry]

A black and white 1963 movie being shown on a flight/ What a cheep airline.

Well they may have shown it on the plane shown in the film but nowhere does the OP say the film was shown in a plane that he was in.

[gotlost]

A black and white 1963 movie being shown on a flight/ What a cheep airline.

Well they may have shown it on the plane shown in the film but nowhere does the OP say the film was shown in a plane that he was in.

I stand corrected.:jap:

[ableguy]

I prefer a quiet American to an ugly one any day. Unfortunately, the former are overwhelmed by the latter.

To form this opinion it is obvious to me that you have met very few Americans, USA population is made up from people of every country in the world so it would suggest that you are a narrow minded bigot with a general dislike of everything not associated with your place of origin, but then again perhaps you dislike that place too.

[Genericnic]

I prefer a quiet American to an ugly one any day. Unfortunately, the former are overwhelmed by the latter.

To form this opinion it is obvious to me that you have met very few Americans, USA population is made up from people of every country in the world so it would suggest that you are a narrow minded bigot with a general dislike of everything not associated with your place of origin, but then again perhaps you dislike that place too.

I'm afraid I have to go with ballpoint on this one. I am a 5th generation Texan and have been to 39 of the 50 states, lived in 5 of the states and one of the Territories so you could say that I have met a few Americans over the years. I too prefer the quiet Americans but they are getting harder to find every day. Ever watched Fox News? Hardly the quiet American there. With the passing of my aunts' and uncles' generation, the quiet American is slipping away. While it was present before September 11, ethnocentrism has surged to levels not seen since the depths of the cold war and it is not just focused on Muslims of whatever stripe. It has continued to work itself closer to a siege mentality of us against "them" with us becoming a smaller and smaller group ... not quite to the family level yet but heading in that direction.

To quote Dennis MIller, "of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong."

Edited August 30, 2010 by Genericnic

[Hakuchi]

I prefer a quiet American to an ugly one any day. Unfortunately, the former are overwhelmed by the latter.

To form this opinion it is obvious to me that you have met very few Americans, USA population is made up from people of every country in the world so it would suggest that you are a narrow minded bigot with a general dislike of everything not associated with your place of origin, but then again perhaps you dislike that place too.

I'm afraid I have to go with ballpoint on this one. I am a 5th generation Texan and have been to 39 of the 50 states, lived in 5 of the states and one of the Territories so you could say that I have met a few Americans over the years. I too prefer the quiet Americans but they are getting harder to find every day. Ever watched Fox News? Hardly the quiet American there. With the passing of my aunts' and uncles' generation, the quiet American is slipping away. While it was present before September 11, ethnocentrism has surged to levels not seen since the depths of the cold war and it is not just focused on Muslims of whatever stripe. It has continued to work itself closer to a siege mentality of us against "them" with us becoming a smaller and smaller group ... not quite to the family level yet but heading in that direction.

To quote Dennis MIller, "of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong."

Looks like you too don't know what "The Quiet American" is about.

[Dakhar]

I prefer a quiet American to an ugly one any day. Unfortunately, the former are overwhelmed by the latter.

To form this opinion it is obvious to me that you have met very few Americans, USA population is made up from people of every country in the world so it would suggest that you are a narrow minded bigot with a general dislike of everything not associated with your place of origin, but then again perhaps you dislike that place too.

I'm afraid I have to go with ballpoint on this one. I am a 5th generation Texan and have been to 39 of the 50 states, lived in 5 of the states and one of the Territories so you could say that I have met a few Americans over the years. I too prefer the quiet Americans but they are getting harder to find every day. Ever watched Fox News? Hardly the quiet American there. With the passing of my aunts' and uncles' generation, the quiet American is slipping away. While it was present before September 11, ethnocentrism has surged to levels not seen since the depths of the cold war and it is not just focused on Muslims of whatever stripe. It has continued to work itself closer to a siege mentality of us against "them" with us becoming a smaller and smaller group ... not quite to the family level yet but heading in that direction.

To quote Dennis MIller, "of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong."

I am a Texan too.... a bayou boy to be exact. I too have have seen most of America, that said, I too have seen most of main land China. Enough so, I learned to speak Mandarin. Because I have seen both side, China v/s America... The Chinese make American look meek and humble. Trying "standing in line" with the Chinese and see what happens... Or try enjoying a peaceful meal without cigarette smoke at a restarount in China. They have no regard for thier neighbor, close of far.

[ballpoint]

I prefer a quiet American to an ugly one any day. Unfortunately, the former are overwhelmed by the latter.

To form this opinion it is obvious to me that you have met very few Americans, USA population is made up from people of every country in the world so it would suggest that you are a narrow minded bigot with a general dislike of everything not associated with your place of origin, but then again perhaps you dislike that place too.

I rest my case.

It is very easy for the "quiet" majority to be overwhelmed by the "ugly" minority. Both figuratively and literally.

[PNGinBKK]

From Wikipedia The Ugly American is the title of a 1958 political novel by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer. The novel became a bestseller, was influential at the time, and is still in print. The book is a quasi-roman à clef; that is, it presents, in a fictionalized guise, the experience of Americans in Southeast Asia (Vietnam) and allegedly portrays several real people who are represented by pseudonyms.

The novel, taking place in a fictional nation called Sarkhan (an imaginary country in Southeast Asia that somewhat resembles Burma or Thailand, but which is meant to allude to Vietnam) as its setting and includes several real people, most of whose names have been changed. The book describes the United States's losing struggle against Communism - what was later to be called the battle for hearts and minds in Southeast Asia, because of innate arrogance and the failure to understand the local culture. The title is actually a double entendre, referring both to the physically unattractive hero, Homer Atkins, and to the ugly behavior of the American government employees.

In the novel, a Burmese journalist says "For some reason, the [American] people I meet in my country are not the same as the ones I knew in the United States. A mysterious change seems to come over Americans when they go to a foreign land. They isolate themselves socially. They live pretentiously. They're loud and ostentatious." Ultimately, the phrase "ugly Americans" comes to be applied to Americans behaving in this manner, while the positive contributions of the Homer Atkins character are forgotten.

But despite the dual meaning, the "ugly American" of the book title fundamentally does refer to the plain-looking engineer Atkins, who lives with the local people, who comes to understand their needs, and who offers genuinely useful assistance with small-scale projects such as the development of a simple bicycle-powered water pump. It is argued in the book that the Communists are successful because they practice tactics similar to those of Atkins.

According to an article published in Newsweek magazine in May 1959, the "real" "Ugly American" was identified as an ICA technician named Otto Hunerwadel, who served in Burma from 1949 until his death in 1952.

Another of the book's heroes, Colonel Hillandale, appears to have been modeled on the real-life U.S. Air Force Lieutenant General Edward Lansdale, an expert in counter-guerrilla operations.

[ballpoint]

...such as the development of a simple bicycle-powered water pump...

As opposed to The quiet American, and his explosive powered bicycle pump.

[Genericnic]

Looks like you too don't know what "The Quiet American" is about.

I'm assuming you are talking about Graham Greene's book. I'm not sure that is the quiet American that ballpoint had in mind. It definitely wasn't what I had in mind in my reply.

By the way, did you hear the joke about George W. referring to "The Quiet American" Pyle character during a speech to the VFW? Oh, wait. That wasn't a job. He really did it.

[Hakuchi]

I prefer a quiet American to an ugly one any day. Unfortunately, the former are overwhelmed by the latter.

To form this opinion it is obvious to me that you have met very few Americans, USA population is made up from people of every country in the world so it would suggest that you are a narrow minded bigot with a general dislike of everything not associated with your place of origin, but then again perhaps you dislike that place too.

I'm afraid I have to go with ballpoint on this one. I am a 5th generation Texan and have been to 39 of the 50 states, lived in 5 of the states and one of the Territories so you could say that I have met a few Americans over the years. I too prefer the quiet Americans but they are getting harder to find every day. Ever watched Fox News? Hardly the quiet American there. With the passing of my aunts' and uncles' generation, the quiet American is slipping away. While it was present before September 11, ethnocentrism has surged to levels not seen since the depths of the cold war and it is not just focused on Muslims of whatever stripe. It has continued to work itself closer to a siege mentality of us against "them" with us becoming a smaller and smaller group ... not quite to the family level yet but heading in that direction.

To quote Dennis MIller, "of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong."

I am a Texan too.... a bayou boy to be exact. I too have have seen most of America, that said, I too have seen most of main land China. Enough so, I learned to speak Mandarin. Because I have seen both side, China v/s America... The Chinese make American look meek and humble. Trying "standing in line" with the Chinese and see what happens... Or try enjoying a peaceful meal without cigarette smoke at a restarount in China. They have no regard for thier neighbor, close of far.

A Chinese person has no problem with it.

It is just you, your cultural background and your ethnocentrism.

Who defines that your way of life is the only right way of life? Nobody, exept you. Thats why you cannot enjoy and relax in China and thats why people come to terms like ugly in relation to Americans.

[Genericnic]

From Wikipedia The Ugly American is the title of a 1958 political novel by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer. The novel became a bestseller, was influential at the time, and is still in print. The book is a quasi-roman à clef; that is, it presents, in a fictionalized guise, the experience of Americans in Southeast Asia (Vietnam) and allegedly portrays several real people who are represented by pseudonyms.

The novel, taking place in a fictional nation called Sarkhan (an imaginary country in Southeast Asia that somewhat resembles Burma or Thailand, but which is meant to allude to Vietnam) as its setting and includes several real people, most of whose names have been changed. The book describes the United States's losing struggle against Communism - what was later to be called the battle for hearts and minds in Southeast Asia, because of innate arrogance and the failure to understand the local culture. The title is actually a double entendre, referring both to the physically unattractive hero, Homer Atkins, and to the ugly behavior of the American government employees.

In the novel, a Burmese journalist says "For some reason, the [American] people I meet in my country are not the same as the ones I knew in the United States. A mysterious change seems to come over Americans when they go to a foreign land. They isolate themselves socially. They live pretentiously. They're loud and ostentatious." Ultimately, the phrase "ugly Americans" comes to be applied to Americans behaving in this manner, while the positive contributions of the Homer Atkins character are forgotten.

But despite the dual meaning, the "ugly American" of the book title fundamentally does refer to the plain-looking engineer Atkins, who lives with the local people, who comes to understand their needs, and who offers genuinely useful assistance with small-scale projects such as the development of a simple bicycle-powered water pump. It is argued in the book that the Communists are successful because they practice tactics similar to those of Atkins.

According to an article published in Newsweek magazine in May 1959, the "real" "Ugly American" was identified as an ICA technician named Otto Hunerwadel, who served in Burma from 1949 until his death in 1952.

Another of the book's heroes, Colonel Hillandale, appears to have been modeled on the real-life U.S. Air Force Lieutenant General Edward Lansdale, an expert in counter-guerrilla operations.

Thanks for posting that PNG. I wasn't sure whether I could post it or not.

David

[grumpyoldman]

And what are you fishing for .

One was wondering if any TV members had seen this film in the last 46 years and their comments, it certainly had a political message at the time.

Was it ever shown in Thailand?

Reefer Madness is a much better U.S. propaganda movie, check it out, some great wacky tobbacky dance moves in that one.

[Dakhar]

Hmmm, I never said that "I" did not enjoy China. I am very fond of the place, warts and all. But I have to say, hairy arm pits on women are a major turn off for me. But I love Chinese history, I love the vastness of the country, and the way the Chinese have "come so far" in such a short amount of time.

But in regards to cigarette smoke, right or wrong yada yada yada... Fortunatley, there is something called science, and sciece "says" second hand smoke is in fact "bad." So if you think that poisoning you neighbor is "OK" then I guess that your "up-brining" has a way to go.