40,000 Litre Of Oil Threatens Phuket Coast As Thai Ship Capsizes

[souvenirdeparis]

" tourists cleaning the beach"

then getting arrested and fleeced to the quick for working on a tourist visa. (had not seen previous post when wrote that; so, my story : I was tidying up the trash at a friend's big island bungalow after a party, burning the litter, and suddenly I had unknown thais come to me , asking what I was doing ; I was a young fool and had no idea of the problem , and I hate being disturbed when busy by a nosey parker, so I was quite ruff and loudly answered " tam gan !!" like in " can't you see i'm working you stupid !"". I had no idea there was a general survey of the island by police and plenty officials. ( yes, I was doing this for use of the bungalow);later I was told the local restaurant lady had spent ten minutes explaining I was baba bobo but harmless and sometimes had fits of watering plants and digging weed for mental balance.It had been a close call.

I started picking up broken glass on a beach too, and took it to the dump, and tried to discuss it with the locals,I had a grand project, then of course dropped it for lack of response. .In Malaysia, do you think the tourists fine -comb the beach every morning?

Edited September 5, 2010 by souvenirdeparis

[yabaaaa]

This is nothing, wait until the first (if it hasn't already happened) nuclear incident gets out, then we'll have a few problems for a few hundred years to come!

True, But doing our part before the shit hits the fan, whenever that will be, makes one sleep, look and feel better about themselves, nothing worse then leaving Earth, knowing that we gave nothing back and could be going someplace else, with that on your track record. I have been at the bedside of many, that were dieing, for one reason or another and crying because they never did much good, for anything, but themselves and were scared they would not be accepted if there is any place out there, after here.

We are only as good as our last performance, make it a good one daily, cha,cha,cha...

I think we can safely leave any mention of "Gods" out of it there isnt a shred of evidence for any Gods its nothing more than a "belief".

Should we be careful of what we do on Earth , yes but not for lame reasons like the above.

[surayu]

Look i am not the person that makes the laws here and i am not even saying i like that law, however, one thing is if you clean up your own mess and another is if you start cleaning up other people things and also invite other people to join in, i would be more than happy to partecipate in a country that will not put me in jail for doing so, but being this Thailand, thank you but no thanks, even if you have the local authority on your side right now, just a change of person in power or just someone changing mind can come and hunt you at a later stage and that's because as i said before, for the thai law what are you doing is not legal, unless all the paperworks for your activities has been paid and organised in the proper legal way, but from your words it doesn't seems the case, in the past i have meet people giving a little help to their wifes/gf in the business they paid for, some of them was even showing off having "protection" in high places by volounteering in the local tourist police force, guess what? they got busted and my guess is that the very own people that supposed to protect them, made the setup for them (as for many strange "coincidences"), my suggestion to you is either get your working permit fixed asap or just give up now, we don't want you have in the news section for the next crackdown on "evil farangs doing illegal activities in Thailand", good luck and please stop trying to attract newbies/unaware people in unnecessary troubles, that's irresponsible, do it legally or just don't, good luck anyways.

[george]

Update:

Thai Rath: The capsized ship went down near pristine coral reef areas and oyster breeding ground.

[yellow1red1]

I don't foul the waters (or air or land) around me, and I take offense of those who do. No excuses.

must have quite a tummy ache? try xlax man!

[koto]

This is nothing, wait until the first (if it hasn't already happened) nuclear incident gets out, then we'll have a few problems for a few hundred years to come!

True, But doing our part before the shit hits the fan, whenever that will be, makes one sleep, look and feel better about themselves, nothing worse then leaving Earth, knowing that we gave nothing back and could be going someplace else, with that on your track record. I have been at the bedside of many, that were dieing, for one reason or another and crying because they never did much good, for anything, but themselves and were scared they would not be accepted if there is any place out there, after here.

We are only as good as our last performance, make it a good one daily, cha,cha,cha...

I think we can safely leave any mention of "Gods" out of it there isnt a shred of evidence for any Gods its nothing more than a "belief".

Should we be careful of what we do on Earth , yes but not for lame reasons like the above.

Maybe the "LAME REASON" is for hearing the Cry of Mother Nature and the Voiceless, like Children, Wildlife and Waterways, One should eat right, exercise, take vitamins just in case, also not knowing, if there is anything out there, after here, and if there is, something else, it is not a bad idea to cover ones ass, and take care of the here and now, Settle in the Past, Engage in the Present, have Respect for self and others plus being Responsible for all of our Actions, Pack it in, Pack it out, Leaving Only Footprints, Education, Examples and Smiles Behind, be part of the Solution not the Pollution, Giving is so much better then receiving, Reach out for something other then self. Mahalo.

[Puccini]

...the prevailing winds are west to southwest..

That was sloppy reporting by the newspaper then, saying that the wind was from the Northwest, or the wind has since changed. Now it turns out that it is blowing from the West, from the shipwreck site in the direction of Phi Phi island. Let's hope that the latest news report, saying that "The amount entering the sea off Phuket is reportedly about 40,000 liters", is also not true and that the storage tank holding the 40,000 litres diesel oil are still tightly sealed, that the small oil spill being seen is only from the tank supplying the ship's engines.

Shipwreck site on Google Maps: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=118093398821998237674.00048f6dcec173d63966b&ll=7.727322,98.639374&spn=0.725311,0.883026&z=10

[brahmburgers]

.....there should be some specialist pumping gear in the region that could get most of it anyway in the tanks if they are up to international standards, but I spose, TIT.

We're talking about a people who

[A] Don't really care about the environment. If you don't believe me, just look around after any outdoor activity, and see the trash strewn everywhere.

Who couldn't get experts to change a battery in a donated contraption out at sea.

.....somehow, I can't picture Thailand having special gear for dealing with oil spills and, if they do, finding one or more 'specialists' who can use it effectively.

This is nothing, wait until the first (if it hasn't already happened) nuclear incident gets out, then we'll have a few problems for a few hundred years to come!

I've spoken out against a nuclear Thailand dozens of times. You're right. This incident is a drop in the water compared to what could happen if/when Thailand goes nuclear.

[Gers1873]

Cant blame that one on the foreigners!!!

Can do, as the wet monsoon comes from the West and farang=Westners....

I understand a spokesman for the Thai government has suggested tying sponges to the fiins of dolphins to soak up the spilled oil. Dolphins will be given red or yellow mops depending on their political leanings.

[koto]

It's to bad, most Farangs just sit back, do nothing, but watch and talk the talk, (Bitch) The Pollution Solution Group sees this daily on Jomtien Beach, now and again (seldom) a Farang will reach out and help in the removing dangers from the beach, (Bless them) most just sidestep the dangers, doing their exercise, thinking only about themselves, caring less about Earth, or sit back and look on, one would think that their upbringing would have taught them differently. When people were growing up, back in the 40's and 50's, we were taught to clean up where we lived and vacationed, clean up when arrived and when we were leaving, we called it "Leaving only footprints behind" Today most people are lazy, give nothing back to Mother Nature, to make it safe for the voiceless to follow, children, wildlife and waterways, most say, not my mess, a Thai did it, it was here when we got here, I'm to proud to pick up after others.

We find more Thai people, reach out to help, or we ask and many join in.

Most people today are uncaring and don't care what dangers are left behind, that a unknowing child could ingest become ill or die, killing wildlife, contaminating our water, most just think that someone else will take care, or they are to above it, to pick up the dangers left by others, being a human of late is nothing to be proud of.

We all need to look around and see things that need to be done and do what we can, like a little Waster-Sizing, bending at the waist to pick up some waste, one random act of kindness at a time, get with the program Farangs.

It is a very interested view. In my opinion Farangs are cleaning up their mess in great numbers. The Thai Hotel Federation though, should call for tough sanctions against their members who are too lazy and too inconsiderate to demand that their members clean their waste water and demand that the restaurants boats and other boats catering for tourists and Thai businesses alike do not throw waste overboard. Problem is that not the visitors to Thailand are sitting back and do nothing but the Thai people themselves. Ever visited a National park after a holiday or a Waterfall? Ever seen a Thai cleaning up after Songkran or New Year? Ever heard about a teacher demanding that their pupils throw paper in the baskets? No? Precisely nobody has heard, and if we hear it is the exception on the rule. One cannot expect more anyhow. GOvernments who plan dirty industries in Mataput which was a great place before and do not even enforce their own (military imposed) rules on pollution cannot ask from their citizens to clean up. newin's party gets all the help from the Democrat Party to destroy teak trees in Khao Yai the road must be build. Sanan is pushing for another dam that will destroy another ecosystem. The problem lays with the seldom tax paying rich who make the rules and who break the rules. Surely not by tourists paying a lot of money and who may expect that hotels and other busiensses will dispose their waste in an environmentally friendly matter.

Well said and very understandable.

But sitting back and expecting it to be taken care of, and knowing it's not, would leave me to believe that, if we are going to live here, we should have an invested interest in doing what we can, to educate, change and set examples, one should know, when the going gets tough, the tough get going, The Pollution Solution Group, most of the time is a party of one, and is making a small difference, I can't imagine 10, 20, 30, people Farang and Thai, doing the same thing! I'm quite sure there would be more changes made much sooner, then just one old Farang doing one day and one beach at a time.

People hear what we say, but see what we do and seeing is believing, we can't just wish changes, we need to walk the walk and if we do it right, in our time, changes will happen, sooner then later, and for those of us that have children, we can praise ourselves for bringing a change for the better and their future, if there is one.

And we don't need a WORK PERMIT to set examples, educate and clean up places, stencil storm drains in Thai and English, pick up trash where you see it, after awhile people start to learn.(Yes it takes time) (No it's not easy) (Rewards are slow) (Never promised a rose garden) (End results, We get get what we give) (A learning curve for all) (Be the teacher) (Not a bitch-er) Mahalo Nui Loa...

Edited September 5, 2010 by koto

[surayu]

And we don't need a WORK PERMIT to set examples, educate and clean up places

Sir, YOU and all the FOREIGNERS you are bringing in to do what you are doing NEED a WORK PERMIT, i wish volounteers would be spared from such an injustice, because that's what it is in the end, do you remember the Tsunami not so long ago?

"More than 1,000 foreign volunteers from about 25 countries helping tsunami survivors rebuild shattered lives were outraged yesterday to hear they face legal action by the Labour Ministry unless they have a work permit."

"The official was reported as saying that although the volunteers were not earning any money, they were still required to have a work permit."

was that clear enough? i guess not and again, if you wish to carry on in light of this you are free to follow your own will, but don't trick people to join you just because they might lead to think that doing this will have no comsequencies on them as if they were in their own country, it's not! and it will be like fall victim of a scam, perhaps the next move can be to create a group to go in China to invoke the need for free speech....

[Willeyeam]

Maybe if one was to suggest to the locals that they could "scoop" it up, and use it for free to fry their food, it may even disappear at once!

Edited September 5, 2010 by Willeyeam

[webfact]

UPDATE

Phuket Oil Spill: Diesel slick drifting toward Phi Phi Islands

PHUKET: -- A large plume of diesel fuel emanating from the wreck of the Choke Thavorn 6 fuel tanker that sunk in heavy seas off Phuket yesterday is heading in the general direction of the Phi Phi Islands in Phuket's neighboring province Krabi.

Crew aboard Royal Thai Navy helicopters monitoring the situation told a reporter from the state-run MCOT news agency this morning that the slick is now moving westward.

An earlier report had the plume of pollution moving in a more southerly direction, toward international waters.

Much lighter than seawater, diesel fuel generally evaporates and disperses into water much more quickly than many other types of petrochemicals. Prevailing rough sea conditions will also aid in dispersal.

Diesel floats quickly to the surface, where it forms a thin sheen that may be increasingly difficult to detect over time, especially when seas are rough.

Diesel can be degraded by naturally occurring marine microbes over a course of months, but is among the most toxic oils to marine life that have direct exposure to it in an undiluted form. Fish, invertebrates and seaweed can all be quickly killed.

According to the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), however, small diesel spills in open water are so rapidly diluted that fish kills have never been reported.

However the NOAA defines a small spill as between about 2,000 and 20,000 liters.

The amount entering the sea off Phuket is reportedly about 40,000 liters.

-- Phuket Gazette 2010-09-05

[webfact]

UPDATE

Navy dispatches ship to help clean up oil slick

PHUKET: -- A Third Naval Area Command reconnaissance has found no additional oil spill from boat which sank yesterday off Phuket, but dispatched a naval vessel to help clean up oil spill which leaked from from the sunken ship.

Chief of Staff Rear Admiral Nawin Thananate said that the sunken ship, the Choke Thaworn 6, was modified with a license registered legally. The ship, containing about four fuel tanks with a capacity of about 35,000-40,000 litres, sank about 10 metres beneath the surface.

He said the third Naval Area Command sent a ship to help the cleanup with about 4,000 litres of chemicals provided by energy corporation PTT and the navy.

Officials from agencies concerned including the Marine Police and the Department of Marine and Coastal Resources inspected the site where the ship sank and collected water samples for laboratory tests.

The latest survey on Sunday found oil spill decreased to a level of one fifth or 20 per cent of the amount of oil spill when the accident occurred. It spread around the area where the ship sank, but did not spill additionally from the ship’s tanks.

Oil spill is thought to be only from ship’s own engine supply and not from its cargo, which is a much larger amount. The resulting slick moved only one mile per hour, so it is not worrying as the amount of oil will disperse.

It is unlikely that that will be an additional oil spill, he said.

The Choke Thaworn 6 capsized and sank Saturday about 10 nautical miles from Phuket town during a fierce storm. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2010-09-05

[koto]

Look i am not the person that makes the laws here and i am not even saying i like that law, however, one thing is if you clean up your own mess and another is if you start cleaning up other people things and also invite other people to join in, i would be more than happy to partecipate in a country that will not put me in jail for doing so, but being this Thailand, thank you but no thanks, even if you have the local authority on your side right now, just a change of person in power or just someone changing mind can come and hunt you at a later stage and that's because as i said before, for the thai law what are you doing is not legal, unless all the paperworks for your activities has been paid and organised in the proper legal way, but from your words it doesn't seems the case, in the past i have meet people giving a little help to their wifes/gf in the business they paid for, some of them was even showing off having "protection" in high places by volounteering in the local tourist police force, guess what? they got busted and my guess is that the very own people that supposed to protect them, made the setup for them (as for many strange "coincidences"), my suggestion to you is either get your working permit fixed asap or just give up now, we don't want you have in the news section for the next crackdown on "evil farangs doing illegal activities in Thailand", good luck and please stop trying to attract newbies/unaware people in unnecessary troubles, that's irresponsible, do it legally or just don't, good luck anyways.

Yo Suyaru

I'm happy we are having this talk, now listen up, I'm not talking about helping in a business, I'm talking about getting off of ones bum and making merits, not selling, not making, not repairing, just cleaning, removing unwanted man made dangers, your either to scared or to lazy and that's OK.

You don't need to worry about people joining me and rest assured If I had a windfall of people wanting to assist, I would also have Pattaya City Hall and many others on my side, I'm here and now, doing, and have been for the past 10 years in Thailand, one of the things that happened is, I received an award from the Governor of Chonburi in 2007,

no jail time, no fine.

You don't need a WORK PERMIT to clean a beach, park, neighborhood, you just need a desire and a garbage bag, they are also on the ground with the trash, don't be so gun shy to give a little, reaching out to help others will not get you into trouble.

I have said enough on this subject, I have a beach to clean, examples to set, posters to pass out, educate the unknowing and be verbal with the uncaring, not an easy job, change never is, to those that don't want to, or care, I'm happy to say I have not been hit as of yet, but I do shake a bunch of hands, Thai and Farang and hope someday yours. Aloha

[koto]

" tourists cleaning the beach"

then getting arrested and fleeced to the quick for working on a tourist visa. (had not seen previous post when wrote that; so, my story : I was tidying up the trash at a friend's big island bungalow after a party, burning the litter, and suddenly I had unknown thais come to me , asking what I was doing ; I was a young fool and had no idea of the problem , and I hate being disturbed when busy by a nosey parker, so I was quite ruff and loudly answered " tam gan !!" like in " can't you see i'm working you stupid !"". I had no idea there was a general survey of the island by police and plenty officials. ( yes, I was doing this for use of the bungalow);later I was told the local restaurant lady had spent ten minutes explaining I was baba bobo but harmless and sometimes had fits of watering plants and digging weed for mental balance.It had been a close call.

I started picking up broken glass on a beach too, and took it to the dump, and tried to discuss it with the locals,I had a grand project, then of course dropped it for lack of response. .In Malaysia, do you think the tourists fine -comb the beach every morning?

Yes one can create stink, by bad mouthing a Thai, asking a question, to many people misunderstand Thai people and rather then smiling and being nice, get their feathers ruffled and make a problem out of nothing, one should not expect a fast response or praise, I was laughed at for the first year on Jomtien Beach, now I'm family and respected by most if not all, If your looking for a quick fix, your looking at blue sky, anything that makes a major difference, takes a major effort and time, you started out right and gave up, never give up, ride it to the dirt, at 72, I have only just begun, the dog is off the porch and making a difference, walk a mile in my flip flops.

[Willeyeam]

A bit of a NON story really, they probably flush more oil than that down the drain everyday at the Bangkok markets.

[koto]

And we don't need a WORK PERMIT to set examples, educate and clean up places

Sir, YOU and all the FOREIGNERS you are bringing in to do what you are doing NEED a WORK PERMIT, i wish volounteers would be spared from such an injustice, because that's what it is in the end, do you remember the Tsunami not so long ago?

"More than 1,000 foreign volunteers from about 25 countries helping tsunami survivors rebuild shattered lives were outraged yesterday to hear they face legal action by the Labour Ministry unless they have a work permit."

"The official was reported as saying that although the volunteers were not earning any money, they were still required to have a work permit."

was that clear enough? i guess not and again, if you wish to carry on in light of this you are free to follow your own will, but don't trick people to join you just because they might lead to think that doing this will have no comsequencies on them as if they were in their own country, it's not! and it will be like fall victim of a scam, perhaps the next move can be to create a group to go in China to invoke the need for free speech....

Ah yes

Your loud and clear, to loud and to clear, I would suggest if there happens to be anybody out there, that wants to make a difference by cleaning a beach or anywhere else for that matter, unless there is already a Thai cleaning crew doing that job.

If your in the Pattaya area, call Pattaya City Hall at 1337 and start by asking them, now if it is a disaster area and your trying to rebuild and there is a bunch of you, coming all in a short time, I would think that a permit of sorts would apply and what your qualified to do, with papers stating so, now if your interested in this China run, that Mr Suyaru speaks of, it is best to deal with him as it appears, that he has all the answers, in these departments and as he suggest, leave the dangers to children, wildlife and waterways on the ground, or you might go to a Thai Jail and be used and abused.

I will be the first to admit, that I don't have all the answers, such as Mr Suyaru, who's profile tells you nothing about him, I will only go by my track record and I will toot my horn, I feel that I have earned that right.

One must go out on a limb sometimes to get the fruit.

Except the things you cannot change, have the courage to change the things you can and be wise enough, to tell the difference.

Mr Suyaru brings up some good points and also has some wise answers, I'm not knocking his outlook or way of thinking, I can only go by what I do and why, if you don't get you feet wet, you will never know how deep the water is, don't take Mr. Suyaru's or my word for it, if you want to make a difference and give back to Mother Nature making it a tad safer for the Voiceless, let you gut and heart be your guide. PEACE.

Edited September 5, 2010 by koto

[bitterbatter]

Cant blame that one on the foreigners!!!

Sure you can! Thais were content riding Elephant before we sold them cars. And, who built the ship and trained the captain?

All joking aside, it does say that no oil has spilled. Let's hope that they can avoid a disaster yet!

[koto]

A bit of a NON story really, they probably flush more oil than that down the drain everyday at the Bangkok markets.

If your talking about storm drains your soooo right.

[souvenirdeparis]

@Koto

I consider myself as a little above pond life, so I expect strangers to at least say " Hi" when they address me , especially when they intrude unexpectedly on private ground .

Anyway the place is way down South, where I wouldn't travel now even in an armoured Hummer.

So much the better if you manage to be useful and derive pleasure and fulfillment from it, I wasn't that lucky and am in a very different situation now. Years ago I was happy to make a fair difference where I lived in my neighborhood in my home country, after a two-years' fight in an organization against big financial interests, and we did win, then I moved and where I now am, in nearly ten years I couldn't change a speck of dust of the things in my street , let alone my town . And I tried and tried.

and that's all I have to say.

[moskito]

As for talking about size and/or # of liters; A small amount of fossil fuel in water spreads far and wide. We only see the macroscopic effects such as oil on beaches, or oil-covered wildlife. We don't see the hidden effects, as it kills zooplankton and photoplankton and many plants and animals that are far from prying eyes of humans. Similarly, there are stories of large aquatic mammals which have had their hearing damaged from loud underwater sonar (mostly military generated). We only hear of the very few of the largest animals which are adversely affected (usually beached) - we don't hear about the countless other animals which are likely harmed/killed by such acts of man.

The message here is; don't just look at the surface (the crayon on the wall by the door) - take a stretch of thinking and realize the harm could likely extend much farther.

Absolutely right brahmburgers,

there is NO PLANKTON in the water of the popular beaches around Phuket anymore since years. I havnt realized it was gone until I swim with some friends at nighttime on a not pupular beach in Phuket.

There it was like 15 or 20 years ago on EVERY beach in Phuket. Sure its not just the oil, its the drainwater and wastewater running in the ground and seawater. Some farangs here have so called Chemical tanks LOL ...do someone think here these things work? Millions of tourists shit in the sea here year by year, be it directly or in their hotel.

Anyway, I dont belive the "oil-story" anyway. I guess it was gasoline, nobody is using oil here except for cooking and engines.

[moskito]

btw, if we are talking about enviroment pollution watch these pics I took last week in Phuket Nai Harn area. Its one of the elephant camps dumping their garbage here. I dont say they throw in the black plastic bags or the dog too because I am not sure of it. There is a well for some houses just 30m away from this place. Nice to think of the groundwater quality they use for taking a shower or brushing their teeth

I filed a complaint at the orbortor in Rawai but have no clue they follow it.

And they wonder about so many dengue fever cases in Phuket?

[bitterbatter]

" tourists cleaning the beach"

then getting arrested and fleeced to the quick for working on a tourist visa. (had not seen previous post when wrote that; so, my story : I was tidying up the trash at a friend's big island bungalow after a party, burning the litter, and suddenly I had unknown thais come to me , asking what I was doing ; I was a young fool and had no idea of the problem , and I hate being disturbed when busy by a nosey parker, so I was quite ruff and loudly answered " tam gan !!" like in " can't you see i'm working you stupid !"". I had no idea there was a general survey of the island by police and plenty officials. ( yes, I was doing this for use of the bungalow);later I was told the local restaurant lady had spent ten minutes explaining I was baba bobo but harmless and sometimes had fits of watering plants and digging weed for mental balance.It had been a close call.

I started picking up broken glass on a beach too, and took it to the dump, and tried to discuss it with the locals,I had a grand project, then of course dropped it for lack of response. .In Malaysia, do you think the tourists fine -comb the beach every morning?

Does this mean that it illegal for me to plant a garden in Thailand?

[KeyserSoze01]

You people kill me. Tilting against windmills over nothing. Then when the topic shifts, the lunatics truly come out of the woodwork. People who have nothing better to do than to argue on the internet or trying to make some vague point.

As far as the media hype and hyperbole over 40K liters of oil, well, that truly is a joke. 40K liters of oil dispersed from a slow, sub-sea leak WILL HAVE ZERO EFFECT ON THE ENVIRONMENT. Recent history proves this is the case if the situation is addressed in the same manner as the 100+ millions liters of oil released in the Gulf of Mexico blowout on April 20th of this year. Have the Thai authorities ever heard of dispersant?

So please, pay no attention to reality and put on your rose colored glasses.

Edited September 5, 2010 by KeyserSoze01

[surayu]

Does this mean that it illegal for me to plant a garden in Thailand?

That's correct if you are not owning(or have a contract as an usufruct for example) the land you are putting the plant in, unless you have thai citizenship or a work permit for doing so :jap:

[yabaaaa]

This is nothing, wait until the first (if it hasn't already happened) nuclear incident gets out, then we'll have a few problems for a few hundred years to come!

True, But doing our part before the shit hits the fan, whenever that will be, makes one sleep, look and feel better about themselves, nothing worse then leaving Earth, knowing that we gave nothing back and could be going someplace else, with that on your track record. I have been at the bedside of many, that were dieing, for one reason or another and crying because they never did much good, for anything, but themselves and were scared they would not be accepted if there is any place out there, after here.

We are only as good as our last performance, make it a good one daily, cha,cha,cha...

I think we can safely leave any mention of "Gods" out of it there isnt a shred of evidence for any Gods its nothing more than a "belief".

Should we be careful of what we do on Earth , yes but not for lame reasons like the above.

Maybe the "LAME REASON" is for hearing the Cry of Mother Nature and the Voiceless, like Children, Wildlife and Waterways, One should eat right, exercise, take vitamins just in case, also not knowing, if there is anything out there, after here, and if there is, something else, it is not a bad idea to cover ones ass, and take care of the here and now, Settle in the Past, Engage in the Present, have Respect for self and others plus being Responsible for all of our Actions, Pack it in, Pack it out, Leaving Only Footprints, Education, Examples and Smiles Behind, be part of the Solution not the Pollution, Giving is so much better then receiving, Reach out for something other then self. Mahalo.

Your comments would be better aimed at many of the Thai people who seem to have little or no respect for their environment.

[loser1]

" tourists cleaning the beach"

then getting arrested and fleeced to the quick for working on a tourist visa. (had not seen previous post when wrote that; so, my story : I was tidying up the trash at a friend's big island bungalow after a party, burning the litter, and suddenly I had unknown thais come to me , asking what I was doing ; I was a young fool and had no idea of the problem , and I hate being disturbed when busy by a nosey parker, so I was quite ruff and loudly answered " tam gan !!" like in " can't you see i'm working you stupid !"". I had no idea there was a general survey of the island by police and plenty officials. ( yes, I was doing this for use of the bungalow);later I was told the local restaurant lady had spent ten minutes explaining I was baba bobo but harmless and sometimes had fits of watering plants and digging weed for mental balance.It had been a close call.

I started picking up broken glass on a beach too, and took it to the dump, and tried to discuss it with the locals,I had a grand project, then of course dropped it for lack of response. .In Malaysia, do you think the tourists fine -comb the beach every morning?

Is this guy the full ticket?

[newtronbom]

It's to bad, most Farangs just sit back, do nothing, but watch and talk the talk, (Bitch) The Pollution Solution Group sees this daily on Jomtien Beach, now and again (seldom) a Farang will reach out and help in the removing dangers from the beach, (Bless them) most just sidestep the dangers, doing their exercise, thinking only about themselves, caring less about Earth, or sit back and look on, one would think that their upbringing would have taught them differently. When people were growing up, back in the 40's and 50's, we were taught to clean up where we lived and vacationed, clean up when arrived and when we were leaving, we called it "Leaving only footprints behind" Today most people are lazy, give nothing back to Mother Nature, to make it safe for the voiceless to follow, children, wildlife and waterways, most say, not my mess, a Thai did it, it was here when we got here, I'm to proud to pick up after others.

We find more Thai people, reach out to help, or we ask and many join in.

Most people today are uncaring and don't care what dangers are left behind, that a unknowing child could ingest become ill or die, killing wildlife, contaminating our water, most just think that someone else will take care, or they are to above it, to pick up the dangers left by others, being a human of late is nothing to be proud of.

We all need to look around and see things that need to be done and do what we can, like a little Waster-Sizing, bending at the waist to pick up some waste, one random act of kindness at a time, get with the program Farangs.

It is a very interested view. In my opinion Farangs are cleaning up their mess in great numbers. The Thai Hotel Federation though, should call for tough sanctions against their members who are too lazy and too inconsiderate to demand that their members clean their waste water and demand that the restaurants boats and other boats catering for tourists and Thai businesses alike do not throw waste overboard. Problem is that not the visitors to Thailand are sitting back and do nothing but the Thai people themselves. Ever visited a National park after a holiday or a Waterfall? Ever seen a Thai cleaning up after Songkran or New Year? Ever heard about a teacher demanding that their pupils throw paper in the baskets? No? Precisely nobody has heard, and if we hear it is the exception on the rule. One cannot expect more anyhow. GOvernments who plan dirty industries in Mataput which was a great place before and do not even enforce their own (military imposed) rules on pollution cannot ask from their citizens to clean up. newin's party gets all the help from the Democrat Party to destroy teak trees in Khao Yai the road must be build. Sanan is pushing for another dam that will destroy another ecosystem. The problem lays with the seldom tax paying rich who make the rules and who break the rules. Surely not by tourists paying a lot of money and who may expect that hotels and other busiensses will dispose their waste in an environmentally friendly matter.

Well said and very understandable.

But sitting back and expecting it to be taken care of, and knowing it's not, would leave me to believe that, if we are going to live here, we should have an invested interest in doing what we can, to educate, change and set examples, one should know, when the going gets tough, the tough get going, The Pollution Solution Group, most of the time is a party of one, and is making a small difference, I can't imagine 10, 20, 30, people Farang and Thai, doing the same thing! I'm quite sure there would be more changes made much sooner, then just one old Farang doing one day and one beach at a time.

People hear what we say, but see what we do and seeing is believing, we can't just wish changes, we need to walk the walk and if we do it right, in our time, changes will happen, sooner then later, and for those of us that have children, we can praise ourselves for bringing a change for the better and their future, if there is one.

And we don't need a WORK PERMIT to set examples, educate and clean up places, stencil storm drains in Thai and English, pick up trash where you see it, after awhile people start to learn.(Yes it takes time) (No it's not easy) (Rewards are slow) (Never promised a rose garden) (End results, We get get what we give) (A learning curve for all) (Be the teacher) (Not a bitch-er) Mahalo Nui Loa...

Wish more people thought like you. If we all did just a bit even, it would make a difference. As you rightly say, set a good example and in time it will make a difference. Where I live, I have been telling the local shops not to use so many plastic bags(7 years). Now many of them ask me and the Thais if you want a bag, instead of putting just a couple of things in 2x bags. We can make a difference for sure - just slowly.

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