Chiang Mai Businesses Closing Or For Sale

[tabs053]

I know that September is one of the quietest months in Chiang Mai but it seems odd to see so many businesses closing down or up for grabs. Someone just mentioned that the poor service in a popular Chiang Mai restaurant was to be expected because 'this is Thailand". Is that the problem - badly run businesses with a never-mind attitude or is it something else? Surely, well run businesses should be able to survive the short down-turns in trade? In fact, whilst some businesses come and go, there are still a select few that have managed to survive the ups and downs and have been here for years. Why is that? Good locations, better management?

[gotlost]

I can thank of four so called cornerstone establishments off the top of my head that are up for sell. Coincidence? At the same time I can take you into a certain entertainment area and most of the bars are up for sell. This happens every year.

Edited September 5, 2010 by gotlost

[tabs053]

I can thank of four so called cornerstone establishments off the top of my head that are up for sell. Coincidence?

If you can fit four cornerstone establishments on the top of your head, then all I can say is "well done".

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'conerstone businesses', especially as regards to chiang Mai - businesses that have been here for more than a year, is that the rub of it? Probably nothing to do with coincidence either.

Why do you think they are for sale.

Edited September 5, 2010 by tabs053

[sarahsbloke]

Business has been slow but the rent, key & tea money just keep going up.

Several of these business are just places to keep the wife occupied and out of trouble, but it's becoming too expensive to keep subsidising the loss makers with the rising value of the Baht.

Just my opinion.

Edited September 5, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[tabs053]

Business has been slow but the rent, key & tea money just keep going up.

Several of these business are just places to keep the wife occupied and out of trouble, but it's becoming too expensive to keep subsidising the loss makers with the rising value of the Baht.

Just my opinion.

People open businesses to 'keep the wife out of trouble'? What kind of a guy would marry a trouble causer, let alone open a business to keep her from causing more trouble? Edited September 5, 2010 by tabs053

[DavidOxon]

Business has been slow but the rent, key & tea money just keep going up.

Several of these business are just places to keep the wife occupied and out of trouble, but it's becoming too expensive to keep subsidising the loss makers with the rising value of the Baht.

Just my opinion.

People open businesses to 'keep the wife out of trouble'? What kind of a guy would marry a trouble causer, let alone open a business to keep her from causing more trouble?

Ah.... here speaks someone who isn't/has never been married to a woman. Keeping a woman out of trouble

means keeping her too busy to notice what you're up to, not trouble she causes herself!

David

Edited September 5, 2010 by DavidOxon

[millwall_fan]

We have recently taken a decision to take our business off the market and soldier on, but August has been exceptionally poor this year as a result of a combination of factors - the strong baht, the political situation, concerns about His Majesty's health, the general world economic outlook and the fact that we have had a normal monsoon in August whereas the last two Augusts have been very dry. Of these factors the most important is the value of the baht. We have dropped a number of prices and introduced a budget range of meals, but we have limited scope for price cuts as the price of foodstuffs including eggs, potatoes & fresh vegetables have soared and the price of many of the Farang speciality products have remained constant despite the greatly lowered cost of importing these products (Marmite, Branston Pickle, Brown Sauce, etc etc) Mr Rimping must be coining it in.

In short, trading conditions are pretty terrible - i accept that September is back to the low season but August is normally a chance for businesses to fill the coffers after June and July in order to stave off the bailiffs until November.- and who knows what sort of high season we are going to have!

[DavidOxon]

We have recently taken a decision to take our business off the market and soldier on, but August has been exceptionally poor this year as a result of a combination of factors - the strong baht, the political situation, concerns about His Majesty's health, the general world economic outlook and the fact that we have had a normal monsoon in August whereas the last two Augusts have been very dry. Of these factors the most important is the value of the baht. We have dropped a number of prices and introduced a budget range of meals, but we have limited scope for price cuts as the price of foodstuffs including eggs, potatoes & fresh vegetables have soared and the price of many of the Farang speciality products have remained constant despite the greatly lowered cost of importing these products (Marmite, Branston Pickle, Brown Sauce, etc etc) Mr Rimping must be coining it in.

In short, trading conditions are pretty terrible - i accept that September is back to the low season but August is normally a chance for businesses to fill the coffers after June and July in order to stave off the bailiffs until November.- and who knows what sort of high season we are going to have!

Hey

Very glad to hear you're off the market. (Not that you'll ever get rich off my meagre custom!)

David

[tabs053]

Business has been slow but the rent, key & tea money just keep going up.

Several of these business are just places to keep the wife occupied and out of trouble, but it's becoming too expensive to keep subsidising the loss makers with the rising value of the Baht.

Just my opinion.

People open businesses to 'keep the wife out of trouble'? What kind of a guy would marry a trouble causer, let alone open a business to keep her from causing more trouble?

Ah.... here speaks someone who isn't/has never been married to a woman. Keeping a woman out of trouble

means keeping her too busy to notice what you're up to, not trouble she causes herself!

David

I am not only married, but have been for twenty years. I still can't believe it. Putting up with me for so long!! You could be right though, because my wife is still actively employed while I pretend to be working on the computer. As regards to her not knowing what I'm up to, I've got that off to a fine art.

[tabs053]

We have recently taken a decision to take our business off the market and soldier on, but August has been exceptionally poor this year as a result of a combination of factors - the strong baht, the political situation, concerns about His Majesty's health, the general world economic outlook and the fact that we have had a normal monsoon in August whereas the last two Augusts have been very dry. Of these factors the most important is the value of the baht. We have dropped a number of prices and introduced a budget range of meals, but we have limited scope for price cuts as the price of foodstuffs including eggs, potatoes & fresh vegetables have soared and the price of many of the Farang speciality products have remained constant despite the greatly lowered cost of importing these products (Marmite, Branston Pickle, Brown Sauce, etc etc) Mr Rimping must be coining it in.

In short, trading conditions are pretty terrible - i accept that September is back to the low season but August is normally a chance for businesses to fill the coffers after June and July in order to stave off the bailiffs until November.- and who knows what sort of high season we are going to have!

You don't paint a rosy picture for anyone that might want to buy a business. I hope you don't reverse your decision because you just might have scared off any future buyers should you want to sell up!

I'm sure the strong baht doesn't help, but I'm not quite convinced as to the effect on business of the other factors you mention.

I noticed that the former Sports Bar in the Night bazaar that changed to Planet Rock now appears to be closed after having been open for about a month(?). Was it due to the sort of conditions you mentioned, or just a bad business plan, a poor location, or something else? I don't think that a lot of Chiang Mai's businesses fail just because of adverse conditions.It's more likely due to inexperienced people getting involved in businesses they know nothing about. Lots of businesses fail, but these businesses fail more quickly and in greater numbers under bad conditions.

[wolf5370]

Not just Farang places either. Kids mentioned to me that one store we used to look at in Airport Plazza is closed again. In the last 3 months it has been a sewing machine shop (that's what we used to look at - my daughter wanted to make herself some clothes, being 11 and apt to change hobbies every ten minutes we looked at the machines from time to time deciding which would be best for her birthday), a clothes shop and a baby accessories place, now its empty again.

There have always been too many bars, cafes, guest houses/hotels and massage parlours here (at least for as long as I have known the place) - given any down turn, there always must be a serious culling - farang haunts naturally get hit worse simply because there are fewer farangs (tourists) about and they are generally more expensive (the places - not the farangs ). Yet, more and more places seem to open each year.

I have a cafe - not in the city though - but we have been closed for the last 2 months and will reopen this month at some point. This isn't due to the down turn as we cater mostly for local expats and Thais, but because our main cook went to the red shirt rally in BKK and didn't return and the other cook went to Finland for a few months fruit picking (she does it every year - makes good money) - and the Mrs is busy working in the UK on a contract, so as a farang I can't open it - just throw the rent money away each month - sigh!

Edited September 5, 2010 by wolf5370

[uptheos]

There are a lot of the 'bigger' establishments up for sale and it's certainly not like any other year.

Small bars come and go all the time, but the bigger farang places usually manage to soldier on, albeit with a brave face.

With so many up for sale at the same time, it would be a brave person that decides to take one on right now and I can't help but think that owners wishing to sell, would have to consider taking a very heavy loss to any potential buyer.

[tabs053]

I imagine that most of the Fish Spas have closed already, as well as plenty of massage places. They are good examples of places closing just because they were never going to be viable - good economy or not. They close quicker during a down turn but they would eventually close anyway.

I don't know of any successful businesses up for sale do you? Nearly always, a business is selling because it ain't working..

[uptheos]

I imagine that most of the Fish Spas have closed already, as well as plenty of massage places. They are good examples of places closing just because they were never going to be viable - good economy or not. They close quicker during a down turn but they would eventually close anyway.

I don't know of any successful businesses up for sale do you? Nearly always, a business is selling because it ain't working..

A logical conclusion.

[uptheos]

I agree with MF and I also think that the Rimping owner should give the farangs a break from time to time, considering the strength of the baht.

Mostly I eat at Thai restaurants and I can't really say that I can see much change in prices wherever I go.

Food is still a bargain and if you cook at home it's even better - the markets are awash with vegetables and fruit at cheap prices.

Every now and then I fancy a farang meal, but mostly I just prefer 'Asian' food.

Most Thai restaurants don't sting you on the drinks either.

[Sparkles]

Noticed that Tony's House of Sausage, opp Tesco, on Hang Dong Rd has closed. Not the greatest of positions but sure was a short stay.

[Mapguy]

We have recently taken a decision to take our business off the market and soldier on, but August has been exceptionally poor this year as a result of a combination of factors - the strong baht, the political situation, concerns about His Majesty's health, the general world economic outlook and the fact that we have had a normal monsoon in August whereas the last two Augusts have been very dry. Of these factors the most important is the value of the baht. We have dropped a number of prices and introduced a budget range of meals, but we have limited scope for price cuts as the price of foodstuffs including eggs, potatoes & fresh vegetables have soared and the price of many of the Farang speciality products have remained constant despite the greatly lowered cost of importing these products (Marmite, Branston Pickle, Brown Sauce, etc etc) Mr Rimping must be coining it in.

In short, trading conditions are pretty terrible - i accept that September is back to the low season but August is normally a chance for businesses to fill the coffers after June and July in order to stave off the bailiffs until November.- and who knows what sort of high season we are going to have!

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Millwall_fan is no fan of mine. He went after me with the mods with singular determination because I on two occasions pointedly noted some of my opinions about the quality of the cooking and quality of ingredients in his cooking at his place. Accused of sticking it to him unfairly, I'll nonetheless still stick by my (lack of) taste buds. Chacun à son goût. Especially for English cooking....but never mind! I do very much feel sympathetic to his problems these days and do attribute his previous sensitivity to my criticisms to his justifiable nervousness about business.

At the same time in the same posts of times past I also mentioned that to be in the restaurant business is basically nutty, especially new endeavors. The number of failures in the field is horrendous. I did not mention experience in the field, which applies here. I think that the fellow deserves a hand for hanging in there, and while I do not plan on returning to his place, I hope that fans of that style of cooking will give him a boost.

I close by predicting, sadly, that things aren't going to get better soon. In that business, one better have very deep pockets and keep up quality. That has not of late, generally, been my experience with Chiang Mai restaurants. Sad.

[tabs053]

I close by predicting, sadly, that things aren't going to get better soon.  In that business, one better have very deep pockets and keep up quality.  That has not of late, generally, been my experience with Chiang Mai restaurants.  Sad.

If anyone asked me about buying/opening a bar, restaurant , guest house, resort, hotel or any other tourist-realated business in Chiang Mai for the next few years my advice would be simple.

Don't do it. There is too much uncertainty out there.

[elektrified]

I imagine that most of the Fish Spas have closed already, as well as plenty of massage places. They are good examples of places closing just because they were never going to be viable - good economy or not. They close quicker during a down turn but they would eventually close anyway.

I don't know of any successful businesses up for sale do you? Nearly always, a business is selling because it ain't working..

A logical conclusion.

At the Fish Spa behind Carrefour, they have a sign out front that lists prices as "Up to you"! No joke. My g/f went in there and asked what that meant and it literally meant whatever you offer. The girl said that there had not been a single customer in 3 days.

[elektrified]

I think it was James Carrville who said "It's the economy, stupid."

No personal attack on the OP.

[Beetlejuice]

As far as I am concerned, Chiang Mai is as dead as a corpse. Thank goodness my work takes me out of here in a few days, I've been bored out my skull.

They should relax all the restrictions on the bars, reopen the lady houses, cut out the 2.00 to 5.00 drink purchasing ban, introduce price concessions on tours and places of interest, requires better promotion and the list goes on.

Chiang Mai needs a reverse of process to take it back how it was 10 years ago; otherwise soon the city will become a ghost town.

I have visited the Olde Bell a couple of times and I liked it. The govner does his best to please his customers, prices are reasonable, staff not pushy and a relaxed atmosphere. I am sorry that times are so bad and hope you can ride out the storm. Use it or lose it, as they say.

Good luck to all those businesses.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Beetlejuice

[uptheos]

I imagine that most of the Fish Spas have closed already, as well as plenty of massage places. They are good examples of places closing just because they were never going to be viable - good economy or not. They close quicker during a down turn but they would eventually close anyway.

I don't know of any successful businesses up for sale do you? Nearly always, a business is selling because it ain't working..

A logical conclusion.

At the Fish Spa behind Carrefour, they have a sign out front that lists prices as "Up to you"! No joke. My g/f went in there and asked what that meant and it literally meant whatever you offer. The girl said that there had not been a single customer in 3 days.

That's quite amazing but I'm not surprised and I have seen more special offers in pub / restaurants, than ever before.

Whenever you see so many special offers it's clear the writings on the wall....they were never there while the gravy train was running.

[alfieconn]

Ah.... here speaks someone who isn't/has never been married to a woman. Keeping a woman out of trouble

means keeping her too busy to notice what you're up to, not trouble she causes herself!

David

So can we take it David that you have been married to a man .

Edited September 6, 2010 by alfieconn

[Ricardo]

At the Fish Spa behind Carrefour, they have a sign out front that lists prices as "Up to you"! No joke. My g/f went in there and asked what that meant and it literally meant whatever you offer. The girl said that there had not been a single customer in 3 days.

Hard-times, when a fish-spa must perhaps have to contemplate, buying fish-food for its' 'operatives' ! Pla Humbug !

[uptheos]

At the Fish Spa behind Carrefour, they have a sign out front that lists prices as "Up to you"! No joke. My g/f went in there and asked what that meant and it literally meant whatever you offer. The girl said that there had not been a single customer in 3 days.

Hard-times, when a fish-spa must perhaps have to contemplate, buying fish-food for its' 'operatives' ! Pla Humbug !

Good one and absolutely right......they probably never ever thought they would need to feed the fish, just let them feed on the tourists.

[personchester]

Business has been slow but the rent, key & tea money just keep going up.

Several of these business are just places to keep the wife occupied and out of trouble, but it's becoming too expensive to keep subsidising the loss makers with the rising value of the Baht.

Just my opinion.

People open businesses to 'keep the wife out of trouble'? What kind of a guy would marry a trouble causer, let alone open a business to keep her from causing more trouble?

To open a busines for the stated purpose does not make much sense, on the contrary, in order to keep one's Thai wife occupied and out of trouble (and trouble making) the following is applicable ...

In addtition to the house that was bought (in her name of course) ... buy her a car, provide her with a credit card chargeable to your bank A/c, help her (financially) to open her own bank A/c, and since the bank provided her with an ATM card, ensure that her A/c balance stays always in credit, in order that she has continuously access to cash via ATM.

Moreover, don't forget to periodically support her wider family, that is to say providing financial aid from time to time.

By implementing the above you have reached the target, that is to say ... No trouble.

[CMX]

So there is, in spite of these unfortunate times, some good news:

M_Fan will continue to operate and contribute to the forum.

We understand that Thai restaurants and foodstuffs remain reasonable and bargains.

A contributor "bored out of his skull" is being financially rewarded to move by his business.

And Mr. Rimping is making terrific money. Incidentally, I'm not certain that all here are aware that he's adding to Mee Chok a drive-through McDonald's!!!!!

Why that alone has me salivating at the idea of a five year lease on my residence.

[Sojourner]

Well, somebody in Thailand is making money.... http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-06-29/thailand-raises-2010-growth-forecast-as-exports-surge.html

[sarahsbloke]

The Thai bars and clubs along with Thai eating places are packed every night.

In the Santhitham area you can get a large Chang Classic served by a 20-year-old virgin who sits with you and pours your beer for 50bht a bottle. In the Oxide bar you can get a bottle of Sangsom Rum with unlimited mixers for 250bht, these drinks are all poured by university girls wearing themed outfits (last week French maid costumes, we've also seen naughty nurses) A very nice Thai dinner costs 25bht and a fruit shake 10bht.

Now truck on over to the white area (MoonMuang Soi1/2) where a large Chang costs 60-80bht, breakfast 100+bht and you get a clear idea of what is happening. They have put prices up, while I have lost 10% of my income due to currency changes. True sometimes I must have a burger (60bht for a very good burger and chips at the Hash House), and will sit as the only customer and eat it. Sometimes I want a really great ham and cheese baguette (Orchid bar in MoonMuang Soi 2) with chips for 80bht and again sit on my own to eat it.

Everyone I know is changing their habits to eat at venues which have held the same prices for the past 5 years selling mainly locally obtained food. Now, if I want a fried breakfast, bacon 89bht Tesco Lotus, mushrooms 20bht at local market, sliced bread 30bht, lasts all week at a cost of less that 30bht a meal. Previously it was Mad Dog/Hash House/Half Moon at 100bht+.

With the exchange rates the way they are western food should be 30% cheaper than 2 years ago, not 10% more expensive. Sorry but I just can't see many white business surviving current economic conditions.

Edited September 6, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[lingnoi1977]

Business come and go - it's a natural cycle influenced by many factors. In my view those who stick to quality and are able to re-invent themselves (no matter how minor) will survive through the hard times.

How many businesses enjoy times of profit and never put away for a rainy day...80%?

How many businesses plod along doing the same old thing year after year as the habits of customers change around them?

I wish quality businesses all the fortune they deserve and for the rest - natural attrition.