Chiang Mai Businesses Closing Or For Sale

[anonymouse]

Good for you Beetlejuice. I think you will find that Petre will be more than happy to make sure that you are a satisfied customer. I also have to agree with Caf and Beetlejuice about foreign owned businesses and how they should work to figure out why their businesses are suffering and what they can do to improve.

I have to say however that the red shirts, the coup and the world economic situation and the strong Baht have all contributed to less tourists and less disposable income for westerners in Chiang Mai. This directly affects businesses that cater to foreigners and there are many. The businesses that are doing OK right now are the businesses that cater to Thais or have a good proportion of Thais as customers. My suggestion to anyone who wants to do a business in Thailand has always been to find something that you can market to Thais. After all this is their country.

Thai business is growing and Thais have more disposable income than ever. Take a look around and try to figure out what does Thailand not have that they have somewhere else and discern if it would work here. Do substantial investment and marketing. That is not to say that you have to invest a fortune.

Leave the small bars and restaurants to ex bar girls.

There are plenty of car washes around now but are there any that do a proper wax and detail? Plenty of Burmese workers to do the wax. I've always thought that a series of small markets from Chiang Mai to Chiang Rai that look like a small grocery stores with the basics, produce and meat would do well and the supply logistics would be feasible and economical. Anyone ever go into a 7-11 and look for a drink that wasn't so sweet it would melt your teeth? How about a Snapple? A Snapple or Arizona Tea in all the 7-11s in country would do well. These are the directions that foreigners who want to live and stay in country should be looking.

Some take a bit of investment but mostly they take drive, initiative and hard work. Anyone who is anybody put in a lot of hard work to get where they are at. Dreaming helps.

Excellent advice from a man who knows his stuff

[Beetlejuice]

Good for you Beetlejuice. I think you will find that Petre will be more than happy to make sure that you are a satisfied customer. I also have to agree with Caf and Beetlejuice about foreign owned businesses and how they should work to figure out why their businesses are suffering and what they can do to improve.

I have to say however that the red shirts, the coup and the world economic situation and the strong Baht have all contributed to less tourists and less disposable income for westerners in Chiang Mai. This directly affects businesses that cater to foreigners and there are many. The businesses that are doing OK right now are the businesses that cater to Thais or have a good proportion of Thais as customers. My suggestion to anyone who wants to do a business in Thailand has always been to find something that you can market to Thais. After all this is their country.

Thai business is growing and Thais have more disposable income than ever. Take a look around and try to figure out what does Thailand not have that they have somewhere else and discern if it would work here. Do substantial investment and marketing. That is not to say that you have to invest a fortune.

Leave the small bars and restaurants to ex bar girls.

There are plenty of car washes around now but are there any that do a proper wax and detail? Plenty of Burmese workers to do the wax. I've always thought that a series of small markets from Chiang Mai to Chiang Rai that look like a small grocery stores with the basics, produce and meat would do well and the supply logistics would be feasible and economical. Anyone ever go into a 7-11 and look for a drink that wasn't so sweet it would melt your teeth? How about a Snapple? A Snapple or Arizona Tea in all the 7-11s in country would do well. These are the directions that foreigners who want to live and stay in country should be looking.

Some take a bit of investment but mostly they take drive, initiative and hard work. Anyone who is anybody put in a lot of hard work to get where they are at. Dreaming helps.

Excellent advice from a man who knows his stuff

Yes this is an excellent post.

Elaborate on the existing market with Thais instead of a potential market with the ever dwindling farang customers.

Perhaps as someone else has suggested, the farang should stay in the backgoriund and let the Thais run the show.

Hope the business owners are reading these posts, some good solid advice here.

[venturalaw]

I have to say that I expected Millwill to join in here but seeing that he appears to be either fed up or taking a break and KH hasn't yet shown himself, I might throw in my 2 cents.

I am always trying to figure out why customers seem to think they deserve to be treated to extra special care. It's one thing if you get it but it is another to expect it.

The discount card the Olde Belle distributes has been brought up time and time again here on this forum and I would think that a poster with 240 posts would have learned his way around the forum. You mentioned it and the staff wasn't sure what you were talking about. No surprise there. The staff probably didn't understand you because what the Olde Belle does is issue a Gold Card that entitles the holder to a discount. So you got it wrong and you asked wrong. They probably thought you were some bum, not that you are a bum, asking for a discount.

You asked for the owner and he was taking a break. The owner doesn't deserve a break and should be in his establishment 24/7? They probably didn't want to get him for some bum, not that you are a bum, that was asking for a discount.

You lit up a cigarette in the restaurant and were asked to put it out. Then they really thought you were a bum, not that you are. You lit up a cigarette? Why would you light up a cigarette when you know it is against the law? Do you realize that you can get the establishment fined?

The staff made a mistake on the bill and when you pointed it out to them they corrected it. That sounds all well and normal to me.

So take a deep breath and chalk it all up to a few very basic mistakes that you made and don't worry. Go back some time after 7:30, ask for the owner and then report back here. I'm sure everything will be alright.

It appears from your post that you are running to be the head of the Chiang Mai Farang Restaurant Owners' Union.

To label a visitor of a service establishment as expecting "to be treated to extra special care" and charging him with having made "a few very basic mistakes" when all he was seeking was information and common courtesy is really over the top. If I were the owner, I would want to know that my staff was paying attention to the customers, not dismissing them.

It's puzzling. Why wouldn't the staff know about a discount when it is the staff that renders the service and seeks payment? Is it really fair to consider a customer "a bum" by expecting the staff to be aware of a discount policy when the establishment issues a Gold Card concerning said policy?

And why is it incorrect to ask if the owner is available? According to you, if the owner is taking a break, one should not ask. But then, how would one know that the owner is on a break unless one asks? That is unreasonable (not that I would suggest that you are unreasonable).

Some owners of restaurants are out and about socializing with their patrons as thought they are running for some Union position, but at least they are available to answer the patron's questions (even if it costs the patron a few French fries).

[getgoin]

If you read correctly you will see that I merely pointed out that it was probably a bunch of mistakes that were compounded by Beetlejuice asking for a discount. You'd be surprised at the number of people who enter an establishment in Chiang Mai ask for a discount. Misunderstandings are common with Thai staff. Secondly, Petre regularly posts here about his concern for his customers. For one reason or another he has not replied. I'm sure he would be concerned and that is why I suggested to Beetlejuice to go in and see him. I believe that this was all some large misunderstanding and your trying to turn it into something else rather than trying to help the matter is actually disturbing. I am helping a sponsor on ThaiVisa, what is your excuse? Bad day?

[Gonzo the Face]

If you read correctly you will see that I merely pointed out that it was probably a bunch of mistakes that were compounded by Beetlejuice asking for a discount. You'd be surprised at the number of people who enter an establishment in Chiang Mai ask for a discount. Misunderstandings are common with Thai staff. Secondly, Petre regularly posts here about his concern for his customers. For one reason or another he has not replied. I'm sure he would be concerned and that is why I suggested to Beetlejuice to go in and see him. I believe that this was all some large misunderstanding and your trying to turn it into something else rather than trying to help the matter is actually disturbing. I am helping a sponsor on ThaiVisa, what is your excuse? Bad day?

...... no baked potatos recently

:jap:

[venturalaw]

If you read correctly you will see that I merely pointed out that it was probably a bunch of mistakes that were compounded by Beetlejuice asking for a discount. You'd be surprised at the number of people who enter an establishment in Chiang Mai ask for a discount. Misunderstandings are common with Thai staff. Secondly, Petre regularly posts here about his concern for his customers. For one reason or another he has not replied. I'm sure he would be concerned and that is why I suggested to Beetlejuice to go in and see him. I believe that this was all some large misunderstanding and your trying to turn it into something else rather than trying to help the matter is actually disturbing. I am helping a sponsor on ThaiVisa, what is your excuse? Bad day?

Excuse? Me? Bad day? Are you serious? Look at what you posted.

You're approach was not anything about misunderstanding. It was all about: "customers seem to think they deserve to be treated to extra special care"; "They probably thought you were some bum, not that you are a bum"; "chalk it all up to a few very basic mistakes that you made".

I never said anything about Petre, and never insinuated that he does not care.

Bottom line was that your initial analysis was one-sided. I'm not attacking anyone and I'm not trying to "turn it into something else" (whatever that means). You, on the other hand, blamed the customer for the lack of care attributable to Petre's staff. You find my comments "actually disturbing"? Jai yen yen.

[getgoin]

If you read correctly you will see that I merely pointed out that it was probably a bunch of mistakes that were compounded by Beetlejuice asking for a discount. You'd be surprised at the number of people who enter an establishment in Chiang Mai ask for a discount. Misunderstandings are common with Thai staff. Secondly, Petre regularly posts here about his concern for his customers. For one reason or another he has not replied. I'm sure he would be concerned and that is why I suggested to Beetlejuice to go in and see him. I believe that this was all some large misunderstanding and your trying to turn it into something else rather than trying to help the matter is actually disturbing. I am helping a sponsor on ThaiVisa, what is your excuse? Bad day?

Excuse? Me? Bad day? Are you serious? Look at what you posted.

You're approach was not anything about misunderstanding. It was all about: "customers seem to think they deserve to be treated to extra special care"; "They probably thought you were some bum, not that you are a bum"; "chalk it all up to a few very basic mistakes that you made".

I never said anything about Petre, and never insinuated that he does not care.

Bottom line was that your initial analysis was one-sided. I'm not attacking anyone and I'm not trying to "turn it into something else" (whatever that means). You, on the other hand, blamed the customer for the lack of care attributable to Petre's staff. You find my comments "actually disturbing"? Jai yen yen.

Yes, not only your comments but your attitude. Bottom line was that my analysis was one sided. The other side. Let's all just try to get along. That's all I am saying. It might be easy to say the The Olde Belle does not care but that is not the case. Please don't pretend to be "let's get along" when your post was clearly confrontational and meant to stir up trouble.

Edited September 17, 2010 by getgoin

[venturalaw]

If you read correctly you will see that I merely pointed out that it was probably a bunch of mistakes that were compounded by Beetlejuice asking for a discount. You'd be surprised at the number of people who enter an establishment in Chiang Mai ask for a discount. Misunderstandings are common with Thai staff. Secondly, Petre regularly posts here about his concern for his customers. For one reason or another he has not replied. I'm sure he would be concerned and that is why I suggested to Beetlejuice to go in and see him. I believe that this was all some large misunderstanding and your trying to turn it into something else rather than trying to help the matter is actually disturbing. I am helping a sponsor on ThaiVisa, what is your excuse? Bad day?

Excuse? Me? Bad day? Are you serious? Look at what you posted.

You're approach was not anything about misunderstanding. It was all about: "customers seem to think they deserve to be treated to extra special care"; "They probably thought you were some bum, not that you are a bum"; "chalk it all up to a few very basic mistakes that you made".

I never said anything about Petre, and never insinuated that he does not care.

Bottom line was that your initial analysis was one-sided. I'm not attacking anyone and I'm not trying to "turn it into something else" (whatever that means). You, on the other hand, blamed the customer for the lack of care attributable to Petre's staff. You find my comments "actually disturbing"? Jai yen yen.

Yes, not only your comments but your attitude. Bottom line was that my analysis was one sided. The other side. Let's all just try to get along. That's all I am saying. It might be easy to say the The Olde Belle does not care but that is not the case. Please don't pretend to be "let's get along" when your post was clearly confrontational and meant to stir up trouble.

Where did I say "The Olde Belle does not care"? Never happened. And what attitude?

Your analysis was one sided - "the other side"? What are you talking about?

You say that we should "all try to get along", then follow up that I "pretend" and that my post was "clearly confrontational and meant to stir up trouble." Is that you how you try to get along?

I have been using your words to make my point and asking you to do the same. You have not. Instead you misquote, suggested that we get along, then followed up with insults. Pitiful.

Edited September 17, 2010 by venturalaw

[getgoin]

While I realize that it must be slow down on the farm your incessant trolling is becoming boorish. Thanks anyways.

[venturalaw]

While I realize that it must be slow down on the farm your incessant trolling is becoming boorish. Thanks anyways.

If this last post was meant for me, you know that I am not on a farm. Nor was I trolling. Have another drink. You'll get over it.

[ThaiPauly]

Can you guys calm it down a bit please.

This thread has been running for quite some time, but it is now seriously wandering off topic and is in danger of being closed if you guys can't get along.

Be nice

Thank you.

[venturalaw]

Can you guys calm it down a bit please.

This thread has been running for quite some time, but it is now seriously wandering off topic and is in danger of being closed if you guys can't get along.

Be nice

Thank you.

:jap:

[caf]

Pedr runs a fine establishment and does care about his customers. Sometimes things go wrong. Happens everywhere. The difficulty was that he was not available at the time. No-one can be available 24/7. A small problem then escalates because of the Thai response.

Thais do not take responsibilty for actions and that can be frustrating for farangs when there is some mae bhen rai and loss of face thrown in for good measure. The Thai gets entrenched in his attitude and won't think outside the box while the farang gets more and more agitated, which further irritates the Thai. We need to learn to live with and deal with it.

Problems are better solved when the farang boss is around. The Thai staff will usually avoid any possible conflict or the need to make a decision. Thais are problem avoiders and not problem solvers

Having said that, there are farang owners around ( not Pedr ) who feel the expat community owes them a living. They have had it too good for too long or perhaps they copy the Thai extreme of charging what the market will bear when they know they have you over a barrel. There needs to be more customer awareness.

Getting away from the emotion of this topic; think of second hand book stalls as an example. Why do expats not shop around and compare prices with Thai owned and run businesses. Expat businesses need to realise their business models particularly on pricing need adjusting. Customers need to be aware there are businesses other than farang around.

[venturalaw]

Pedr runs a fine establishment and does care about his customers. Sometimes things go wrong. Happens everywhere. The difficulty was that he was not available at the time. No-one can be available 24/7. A small problem then escalates because of the Thai response.

Thais do not take responsibilty for actions and that can be frustrating for farangs when there is some mae bhen rai and loss of face thrown in for good measure. The Thai gets entrenched in his attitude and won't think outside the box while the farang gets more and more agitated, which further irritates the Thai. We need to learn to live with and deal with it.

Problems are better solved when the farang boss is around. The Thai staff will usually avoid any possible conflict or the need to make a decision. Thais are problem avoiders and not problem solvers

Having said that, there are farang owners around ( not Pedr ) who feel the expat community owes them a living. They have had it too good for too long or perhaps they copy the Thai extreme of charging what the market will bear when they know they have you over a barrel. There needs to be more customer awareness.

Getting away from the emotion of this topic; think of second hand book stalls as an example. Why do expats not shop around and compare prices with Thai owned and run businesses. Expat businesses need to realise their business models particularly on pricing need adjusting. Customers need to be aware there are businesses other than farang around.

Well stated Caf. I do now plan to visit Petra's establishment.

[anonymouse]

Getting away from the emotion of this topic; think of second hand book stalls as an example. Why do expats not shop around and compare prices with Thai owned and run businesses. Expat businesses need to realise their business models particularly on pricing need adjusting. Customers need to be aware there are businesses other than farang around.

I've heard you mention these second hand book stalls before, where are these Thai owned business's located?

I've seen a few tatty books at the sunday market but nothing worth buying

[ThaiPauly]

Pedr runs a fine establishment and does care about his customers. Sometimes things go wrong. Happens everywhere. The difficulty was that he was not available at the time. No-one can be available 24/7. A small problem then escalates because of the Thai response.

Thais do not take responsibilty for actions and that can be frustrating for farangs when there is some mae bhen rai and loss of face thrown in for good measure. The Thai gets entrenched in his attitude and won't think outside the box while the farang gets more and more agitated, which further irritates the Thai. We need to learn to live with and deal with it.

Problems are better solved when the farang boss is around. The Thai staff will usually avoid any possible conflict or the need to make a decision. Thais are problem avoiders and not problem solvers

Having said that, there are farang owners around ( not Pedr ) who feel the expat community owes them a living. They have had it too good for too long or perhaps they copy the Thai extreme of charging what the market will bear when they know they have you over a barrel. There needs to be more customer awareness.

Getting away from the emotion of this topic; think of second hand book stalls as an example. Why do expats not shop around and compare prices with Thai owned and run businesses. Expat businesses need to realise their business models particularly on pricing need adjusting. Customers need to be aware there are businesses other than farang around.

Well stated Caf. I do now plan to visit Petra's establishment.

His name is Pedr, not Petra

[venturalaw]

Pedr runs a fine establishment and does care about his customers. Sometimes things go wrong. Happens everywhere. The difficulty was that he was not available at the time. No-one can be available 24/7. A small problem then escalates because of the Thai response.

Thais do not take responsibilty for actions and that can be frustrating for farangs when there is some mae bhen rai and loss of face thrown in for good measure. The Thai gets entrenched in his attitude and won't think outside the box while the farang gets more and more agitated, which further irritates the Thai. We need to learn to live with and deal with it.

Problems are better solved when the farang boss is around. The Thai staff will usually avoid any possible conflict or the need to make a decision. Thais are problem avoiders and not problem solvers

Having said that, there are farang owners around ( not Pedr ) who feel the expat community owes them a living. They have had it too good for too long or perhaps they copy the Thai extreme of charging what the market will bear when they know they have you over a barrel. There needs to be more customer awareness.

Getting away from the emotion of this topic; think of second hand book stalls as an example. Why do expats not shop around and compare prices with Thai owned and run businesses. Expat businesses need to realise their business models particularly on pricing need adjusting. Customers need to be aware there are businesses other than farang around.

Well stated Caf. I do now plan to visit Petra's establishment.

His name is Pedr, not Petra

Got it. Was going by the way it was spelled in previous posts.

[Gonzo the Face]

Having read some of caf's post in the past, its not too difficult in seeing which direction his comment is pointed.

The statement caf makes, Why do expats not shop around and compare prices with Thai owned and run businesses. Expat businesses need to realise their business models particularly on pricing need adjusting. Customers need to be aware there are businesses other than farang around.

I can , of course, only speak for myself. But as an expat, sometimes I will go into a shop and be most willing to pay a premium, knowing that if I need to question someone in regard to a item or product, I will be able to receive a realistic and competent answer. The chances of this technical or in depth answer may not, and would probably not be had at a Thai run shop. Not being critical or wishing to sound negative towards the Thai, but that is just the way things are. For this, my opinion, more valued answer or assistance, I am happy to pay a premium, of course within reason.

This goes to many things, not only second hand book stores, if that is what puts a burr under your blanket.

People will go to Thai doctors and dentists, but for some reason feel more at ease and confortable, if they know that that person had studied in the west.

Or when they go to a restaurant, the westerner feels more relaxed if asking for his eggs to be over easy, if he knows the person taking that request knows what is being asked for.

yes in many cases it is more valued and the customer is willing to pay a premium.

now I have no axe to grind with doctors, dentists , restaurant owners, or second hand book stores.

just my feelings.

Gonzo

[november222]

I buy second hand books from thai markets 25 baht. maybe 50 baht 80 baht depending on size. Why pay more in a farang bookstore. There are Thai restaurants that also do western food but they charge only a little over thai prices. If it works for them why can't the farang businesses do it.

..........................

Having said that, there are farang owners around ( not Pedr ) who feel the expat community owes them a living. They have had it too good for too long or perhaps they copy the Thai extreme of charging what the market will bear when they know they have you over a barrel. There needs to be more customer awareness.

Getting away from the emotion of this topic; think of second hand book stalls as an example. Why do expats not shop around and compare prices with Thai owned and run businesses. Expat businesses need to realise their business models particularly on pricing need adjusting. Customers need to be aware there are businesses other than farang around.

you seem to have a bee in yer bonnet about 2nd hand bookstores or is it 2nd hand bookstore owners?

[ChiangMai2]

Pedr runs a fine establishment and does care about his customers. Sometimes things go wrong. Happens everywhere. The difficulty was that he was not available at the time. No-one can be available 24/7. A small problem then escalates because of the Thai response.

Thais do not take responsibilty for actions and that can be frustrating for farangs when there is some mae bhen rai and loss of face thrown in for good measure. The Thai gets entrenched in his attitude and won't think outside the box while the farang gets more and more agitated, which further irritates the Thai. We need to learn to live with and deal with it.

Problems are better solved when the farang boss is around. The Thai staff will usually avoid any possible conflict or the need to make a decision. Thais are problem avoiders and not problem solvers

Having said that, there are farang owners around ( not Pedr ) who feel the expat community owes them a living. They have had it too good for too long or perhaps they copy the Thai extreme of charging what the market will bear when they know they have you over a barrel. There needs to be more customer awareness.

Getting away from the emotion of this topic; think of second hand book stalls as an example. Why do expats not shop around and compare prices with Thai owned and run businesses. Expat businesses need to realise their business models particularly on pricing need adjusting. Customers need to be aware there are businesses other than farang around.

Well stated Caf. I do now plan to visit Petra's establishment.

His name is Pedr, not Petra

Got it. Was going by the way it was spelled in previous posts.

Edited September 17, 2010 by ChiangMai2

[CMX]

Way back in post #7 (page 1), one of our business owners outlined, most rationally I believe, a number of factors contributing to the difficult business climate. He singled out the baht and exchange rates and a number of other important factors which seem to have hurt tourist business in particular.

If this is the case, business difficulties are basically being harmed by the absence of customers due to factors beyond the control of anyone in these businesses locally.

From what I observe, Thais are not caught in the same downturn cycle, except for inflation, which is another enemy to profit, particularly with regard to foodstuffs that are not native.

I cannot see any great turnaround being realized by owners being even more dedicated (doubtless, sleeping is already a challenge) or developing service perfectly in tune with every customers' wishes. The service factor (which must be very difficult to teach and maintain) is too small a matter to contribute to a make or break a decision. Fine of course, but not enough to reverse the trend.

Facts are facts: restaurant and inns are risky; tourism is much reduced, farang residents may be realizing smaller incomes, and inflation continues. Where in the world is the puzzle?

Beetlejuice is headed out of town anyway and can report back later. Any wife's happiness is idiosyncratic and her opion may well change. Clearly the only way for us to help out is to eat and drink more, not that we want to, but to carry out our civic duty. Anyway, there's a saying, "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow the baht's going up some more." (All sayings are kept for their advantages.)

Edited September 17, 2010 by CMX

[caf]

Pedr runs a fine establishment and does care about his customers. Sometimes things go wrong. Happens everywhere. The difficulty was that he was not available at the time. No-one can be available 24/7. A small problem then escalates because of the Thai response.

Thais do not take responsibilty for actions and that can be frustrating for farangs when there is some mae bhen rai and loss of face thrown in for good measure. The Thai gets entrenched in his attitude and won't think outside the box while the farang gets more and more agitated, which further irritates the Thai. We need to learn to live with and deal with it.

Problems are better solved when the farang boss is around. The Thai staff will usually avoid any possible conflict or the need to make a decision. Thais are problem avoiders and not problem solvers

Having said that, there are farang owners around ( not Pedr ) who feel the expat community owes them a living. They have had it too good for too long or perhaps they copy the Thai extreme of charging what the market will bear when they know they have you over a barrel. There needs to be more customer awareness.

Getting away from the emotion of this topic; think of second hand book stalls as an example. Why do expats not shop around and compare prices with Thai owned and run businesses. Expat businesses need to realise their business models particularly on pricing need adjusting. Customers need to be aware there are businesses other than farang around.

Well stated Caf. I do now plan to visit Petra's establishment.

Thanks for that

Actually his name is Pedr ( Welsh for Peter )

But i am sure he doesn't mind what he is called so long as he is not called late for dinner.

[caf]

Getting away from the emotion of this topic; think of second hand book stalls as an example. Why do expats not shop around and compare prices with Thai owned and run businesses. Expat businesses need to realise their business models particularly on pricing need adjusting. Customers need to be aware there are businesses other than farang around.

I've heard you mention these second hand book stalls before, where are these Thai owned business's located?

I've seen a few tatty books at the sunday market but nothing worth buying

2 in Maerim but try any large market or just ask some of the stall holders. I've got quite a nice collection now of biographies averaging around 30 baht. I think they mainly come from house clearances and are therefore usually in good condition not having been sold and resold several times.

good luck

caf

[caf]

I buy second hand books from thai markets 25 baht. maybe 50 baht 80 baht depending on size. Why pay more in a farang bookstore. There are Thai restaurants that also do western food but they charge only a little over thai prices. If it works for them why can't the farang businesses do it.

..........................

Having said that, there are farang owners around ( not Pedr ) who feel the expat community owes them a living. They have had it too good for too long or perhaps they copy the Thai extreme of charging what the market will bear when they know they have you over a barrel. There needs to be more customer awareness.

Getting away from the emotion of this topic; think of second hand book stalls as an example. Why do expats not shop around and compare prices with Thai owned and run businesses. Expat businesses need to realise their business models particularly on pricing need adjusting. Customers need to be aware there are businesses other than farang around.

you seem to have a bee in yer bonnet about 2nd hand bookstores or is it 2nd hand bookstore owners?

see my reply to anonymouse

my point was about business models not individuals and was just one example.

caf

[caf]

Having read some of caf's post in the past, its not too difficult in seeing which direction his comment is pointed.

The statement caf makes, Why do expats not shop around and compare prices with Thai owned and run businesses. Expat businesses need to realise their business models particularly on pricing need adjusting. Customers need to be aware there are businesses other than farang around.

I can , of course, only speak for myself. But as an expat, sometimes I will go into a shop and be most willing to pay a premium, knowing that if I need to question someone in regard to a item or product, I will be able to receive a realistic and competent answer. The chances of this technical or in depth answer may not, and would probably not be had at a Thai run shop. Not being critical or wishing to sound negative towards the Thai, but that is just the way things are. For this, my opinion, more valued answer or assistance, I am happy to pay a premium, of course within reason.

This goes to many things, not only second hand book stores, if that is what puts a burr under your blanket.

People will go to Thai doctors and dentists, but for some reason feel more at ease and confortable, if they know that that person had studied in the west.

Or when they go to a restaurant, the westerner feels more relaxed if asking for his eggs to be over easy, if he knows the person taking that request knows what is being asked for.

yes in many cases it is more valued and the customer is willing to pay a premium.

now I have no axe to grind with doctors, dentists , restaurant owners, or second hand book stores.

just my feelings.

Gonzo

Apart from your first paragraph I agree with you. If you prepare a meal the way I like it and a Thai establishment does not, then I will patronise* you. And pay a premium.

Your point is " within reason" and again I agree. My point is that some ( and i made that clear too ) farang owners are taking advantage of the fact that they have created a monopoly in a sense and farangs won't shop around. That worked in the past and still works to some extent, but some farangs now are seeing there are alternatives. All businesses need to adapt, standing still and relying on a captive market is not always the right option. Maybe this is what we are now seeing happening.

* When I say patronising I mean of course patronising your establishment. "Patronising " in the Tv sense is not my style.

[venturalaw]

Getting away from the emotion of this topic; think of second hand book stalls as an example. Why do expats not shop around and compare prices with Thai owned and run businesses. Expat businesses need to realise their business models particularly on pricing need adjusting. Customers need to be aware there are businesses other than farang around.

The reason why I don't shop around and compare prices with Thai owned second-hand book stalls is simple - I am purchasing a western product. Who would normally know more about western books - a westerner or a Thai? Plus, if I require assistance, I am better served in second-hand book stores by a westerner. Perhaps if I were fluent in Thai and seeking to purchase second-had Thai books it would be different. But then again, perhaps not.

Lastly, I have come to rely upon the expertise of the westerner from whom I purchase used books. He has the greatest selection in his several stores, he is accessible, and is thoroughly knowledgeable about a wide variety of topics that I enjoy reading. Why would I try a Thai second-hand bookstore when I have all that I require in the second-hand bookstore chain that I frequent?

Edited September 17, 2010 by venturalaw

[CMX]

Selection, selection, selection.

If I know an author I'd like to follow, or have a particular subject or title I'd like to read, I could search until 2593 with no luck. It is a matter of time, too. Certainly I like to keep an eye out. But for me, a fifty baht book of no known value is worthless or maybe a gamble and the time taken is not going to be worth a lucky discovery.

In fact, with one second-hand bookstore that advertises here, I can look up titles and authors on their website and find out (if it is there) which store to visit.

Finally, I like to browse among bigger selections.

Edited September 17, 2010 by CMX

[caf]

Getting away from the emotion of this topic; think of second hand book stalls as an example. Why do expats not shop around and compare prices with Thai owned and run businesses. Expat businesses need to realise their business models particularly on pricing need adjusting. Customers need to be aware there are businesses other than farang around.

The reason why I don't shop around and compare prices with Thai owned second-hand book stalls is simple - I am purchasing a western product. Who would normally know more about western books - a westerner or a Thai? Plus, if I require assistance, I am better served in second-hand book stores by a westerner. Perhaps if I were fluent in Thai and seeking to purchase second-had Thai books it would be different. But then again, perhaps not.

Lastly, I have come to rely upon the expertise of the westerner from whom I purchase used books. He has the greatest selection in his several stores, he is accessible, and is thoroughly knowledgeable about a wide variety of topics that I enjoy reading. Why would I try a Thai second-hand bookstore when I have all that I require in the second-hand bookstore chain that I frequent?

I don't completely disagree with you venturalaw. My illustration of a book stall was an example based on the topic title as I have made very clear. Give me another business type and I will re-write my point using that example.

But as you mention " Why would I try a Thai second-hand bookstore when I have all that I require in the second-hand bookstore chain that I frequent? " My answer would be that you never know what you may find in these clearance sales on thai stalls. I have bought several books on Thai stalls that I have not seen in farang bookshops ( which i also frequent )

If you want to restrict yourself to one shop that's fine by me. I prefer to use both options.

caf

[caf]

Selection, selection, selection.

If I know an author I'd like to follow, or have a particular subject or title I'd like to read, I could search until 2593 with no luck. It is a matter of time, too. Certainly I like to keep an eye out. But for me, a fifty baht book of no known value is worthless or maybe a gamble and the time taken is not going to be worth a lucky discovery.

In fact, with one second-hand bookstore that advertises here, I can look up titles and authors on their website and find out (if it is there) which store to visit.

Finally, I like to browse among bigger selections.

Don't find your post that easy to comprehend fully. What is a 50 baht book of no known value? You look at the book , decide if you want it, then choose to buy or not. Nothing to do with no known value. You are not buying sight unseen.

"If I know an (sic) author I'd like to follow," Up to you, but you could find your discovery in other places. Hurry though, you have a 2593 deadline you say.

[Loaded]

Speaking of bookshops, does anyone know whether UG is OK? I haven't seen him post for a while.