Chiang Mai Businesses Closing Or For Sale

[Ulysses G.]

Selection, selection, selection.

If I know an author I'd like to follow, or have a particular subject or title I'd like to read, I could search until 2593 with no luck. It is a matter of time, too. Certainly I like to keep an eye out. But for me, a fifty baht book of no known value is worthless or maybe a gamble and the time taken is not going to be worth a lucky discovery.

In fact, with one second-hand bookstore that advertises here, I can look up titles and authors on their website and find out (if it is there) which store to visit.

Finally, I like to browse among bigger selections.

I'm sure that most readers would check out a book stall when they see one - I know that I do - but I only find something that I want to read every blue moon and it is often not in good condition. I have always prefered to go to a store with big selection of decent titles where there is a much better chance of finding something that I actually want to read.

[Ulysses G.]

Speaking of bookshops, does anyone know whether UG is OK? I haven't seen him post for a while.

He got another one of his unwanted "vacations". Thanks for asking.

[venturalaw]

Getting away from the emotion of this topic; think of second hand book stalls as an example. Why do expats not shop around and compare prices with Thai owned and run businesses. Expat businesses need to realise their business models particularly on pricing need adjusting. Customers need to be aware there are businesses other than farang around.

The reason why I don't shop around and compare prices with Thai owned second-hand book stalls is simple - I am purchasing a western product. Who would normally know more about western books - a westerner or a Thai? Plus, if I require assistance, I am better served in second-hand book stores by a westerner. Perhaps if I were fluent in Thai and seeking to purchase second-had Thai books it would be different. But then again, perhaps not.

Lastly, I have come to rely upon the expertise of the westerner from whom I purchase used books. He has the greatest selection in his several stores, he is accessible, and is thoroughly knowledgeable about a wide variety of topics that I enjoy reading. Why would I try a Thai second-hand bookstore when I have all that I require in the second-hand bookstore chain that I frequent?

I don't completely disagree with you venturalaw. My illustration of a book stall was an example based on the topic title as I have made very clear. Give me another business type and I will re-write my point using that example.

But as you mention " Why would I try a Thai second-hand bookstore when I have all that I require in the second-hand bookstore chain that I frequent? " My answer would be that you never know what you may find in these clearance sales on thai stalls. I have bought several books on Thai stalls that I have not seen in farang bookshops ( which i also frequent )

If you want to restrict yourself to one shop that's fine by me. I prefer to use both options.

caf

For me it's a matter of time - the same way I shop for clothes. I don't enjoy browsing. I know what I want and I want to secure it in the least amount of time. With the chain of well stocked stores (not just 'one shop') that I frequent I am able to research the topic in advance (usually via the owner, or the internet), and go pick up the selection(s). Plus, as I stated before, given the owner's knowledge of what I enjoy reading, he makes salient recommendations. Furthermore, if I ever wanted to browse, the significant selection at my chosen bookstore chain affords that opportunity better than any second-hand book 'stall' that I have discovered.

Lastly, I believe in loyalty to people and businesses that have gone out of their way to be accommodating, and that provide excellent resources. Over the years I have found this only in the used bookstore that CMX referred to as advertising here on Tv. Perhaps you should try them out.

Edited September 18, 2010 by venturalaw

[Gonzo the Face]

Speaking of bookshops, does anyone know whether UG is OK? I haven't seen him post for a while.

He got another one of his unwanted "vacations". Thanks for asking.

Good to see you back to good health after your attack of tvitis. It does tend to create tenderness with the communication organs/digits.

Welcome back to good health

gonzo

[CMX]

"Don't find your post that easy to comprehend fully. What is a 50 baht book of no known value? You look at the book , decide if you want it, then choose to buy or not. Nothing to do with no known value. You are not buying sight unseen.

If I know an (sic) author I'd like to follow," Up to you, but you could find your discovery in other places. Hurry though, you have a 2593 deadline you say. ~ underlined Caf

***********************

Yes, sorry. I cannot write e-mail without its being confusing, I guess. In the days of letters, I used to edit, let it sit, edit, and maybe print.

By "unknown value" I mean that I have no talent for impulse buying of books, barring those that are illustrated. The blurb on the cover wants to lead me toward purchasing too, no more than an advertisement. Even if I read several pages from the beginning, I am likely to end up with a thing that is ill-written, uniformed, badly edited, or dull.

Moreover, I tend to buy books on purpose, rather than impulse. I become interested in a subject or author, and that is specifically what I look for. (Usually several interests at a time.) Only bigger collections pay off before twenty years are past.

In fact, except for music associated often with Payap U. and a few others, film including the alternative theaters, Chiang Mai cannot claim much in the way of so-called "culture" (as opposed to popular culture) - except books. Virtually all of those available, in English, are collected in second-hand bookstores.

[CMX]

"Don't find your post that easy to comprehend fully. What is a 50 baht book of no known value? You look at the book , decide if you want it, then choose to buy or not. Nothing to do with no known value. You are not buying sight unseen.

If I know an (sic) author I'd like to follow," Up to you, but you could find your discovery in other places. Hurry though, you have a 2593 deadline you say. ~ underlined Caf

***********************

Yes, sorry. I cannot write e-mail without its being confusing, I guess. In the days of letters, I used to edit, let it sit, edit, and maybe print.

By "unknown value" I mean that I have no talent for impulse buying of books, barring those that are illustrated. The blurb on the cover wants to lead me toward purchasing too, no more than an advertisement. Even if I read several pages from the beginning, I am likely to end up with a thing that is ill-written, uniformed, badly edited, or dull.

Moreover, I tend to buy books on purpose, rather than impulse. I become interested in a subject or author, and that is specifically what I look for. (Usually several interests at a time.) Only bigger collections pay off before twenty years are past.

In fact, except for music associated often with Payap U. and a few others, film including the alternative theaters, Chiang Mai cannot claim much in the way of so-called "culture" (as opposed to popular culture) - except books. Virtually all of those available, in English, are collected in second-hand bookstores.

[Rooo]

Off topic posts & ones discussing moderation action removed.

[Gonzo the Face]

In spite of the ramblings of some posters, there are some , what I would term longer term , falang business in CM. UG has been around for a good number of years and expanded very nicely. Strange as it may seem to some , I, too have been here now for almost 14 years, thank you.

Yes some business' have closed , some for fault of their own, most for fault of unforseen circumstances , like the world economic situation, some for shortfall in the tourist market, maybe some even for spending more time looking for caustic retorts on a forum, rahter than tending to life events, such as male menopause.

But taking the liberty of speaking for UG as well as myself, we are where we are , and you are where you are...... I wouldn't want to trade places...... just couldn't possible think of traveling all over the country looking for a 20 B cheaper book, obviously with some of the pages missing....

:jap:

[caf]

You are muddying the waters of course. The topic is about why cm businesses are closing not why you and ulysses have been here umpteen years and run successful businresses.

I actually agreed with ulysses very reasoned post:

"I'm sure that most readers would check out a book stall when they see one - I know that I do - but I only find something that I want to read every blue moon and it is often not in good condition. I have always prefered to go to a store with big selection of decent titles where there is a much better chance of finding something that I actually want to read. "

Although I find that shopping in both bookstores and markets can BOTH be productive though I accept Ulysses' point that it is more hit and miss with markets. You get the occasional gem though.

Your analysis is actually counter to what Ulysses is saying. Stick to talking of male menopause, travelling all over Thailand for a 20 baht book if you like, but that is not what I wrote. I only picked books as one example as I have made clear. I suppose if I had picked restaurants you would have taken that as a slight too.

My original post was on topic and gave my views ( right or wrong - this is a forum )of why I thought businesses were failing. It was not directed at either of you as has always been made clear.

caf

[IanForbes]

Speaking of bookshops, does anyone know whether UG is OK? I haven't seen him post for a while.

He got another one of his unwanted "vacations". Thanks for asking.

:lol:

Happens occasionally, doesn't it.

[IanForbes]

There was a time when I used to do a lot of shopping. Then, upon looking at the many rooms in my home all filled with STUFF, I realized I can't use what I've got, let alone buy more. My STUFF is good STUFF and usually expensive STUFF, but in the end it's still just STUFF.

But, back on topic. I do believe that running a successful business takes thorough planning PRIOR to start up. It also takes a bit of luck. Very few people can predict the future, and you almost need to do so before investing in a business venture. A well established business might be able to survive a drastic down turn in the economy... like the recent one. But, if you were to still be in the start up mode when the economy goes in the tank then captial investment is eaten up quickly.

My ex wanted to run her own business but she quickly got bored with everything she started. Unfortunately, I was too generous and kept helping her financially with each new venture. Just about the time she might start showing a profit she closed it down and tried something new. After about 10 attempts I stopped financing her schemes THAT SHOULD HAVE WORKED, but didn't. That was the start of the end to our marriage.

Thais seem to have a curious habit of starting a similar business nearby to one that is already established and doing well. Why this is so I have no idea. If one Thai is running a successfull laundry then another Thai will start a laundry only a few doors away instead of picking an area that doesn't have a laundry. Or, there will be two 7-11 shops within a block of each other. The same goes for restaurants. And, it's not that one offers anything new or interesting.

I'm a writer and an artist, but even a writer or artist needs to know his market. Same goes with musicians. You have to give the audience or buyers what THEY want, not what you want to give them.

[Ulysses G.]

...It was not directed at either of you...

Edited September 21, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[dave2]

ian forbes.

re .... Thais seem to have a curious habit of starting a similar business nearby to one that is already established

aaahhhh .... you mean like the four empty fish spas near butter is better on chiang clan road

well i never .... amazing thailand ..he he .... enjoy .... dave2

[IanForbes]

ian forbes.

re .... Thais seem to have a curious habit of starting a similar business nearby to one that is already established

aaahhhh .... you mean like the four empty fish spas near butter is better on chiang clan road

well i never .... amazing thailand ..he he .... enjoy .... dave2

perfect example, Dave. Thanks. :jap:

[TheWalkingMan]

ian forbes.

re .... Thais seem to have a curious habit of starting a similar business nearby to one that is already established

aaahhhh .... you mean like the four empty fish spas near butter is better on chiang clan road

well i never .... amazing thailand ..he he .... enjoy .... dave2

As one of my Thai friends said... it must be a good idea because everybody do.

TheWalkingMan

[Thighlander]

I saw four farangs doing renovation work yesterday, near the UN Cafe. Looks like they are getting ready to open some type of business. They are a good example of what not to do. Their first "visit" may only be hours away. You can get thai labor for 200 thb per day; why on earth would one be engaging in manual labor soo close to the police station? I would be extremely surprised if they a) have work permits have registered their company c) have ever run a successful business in their own country.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Thighlander

[caf]

I saw four farangs doing renovation work yesterday, near the UN Cafe. Looks like they are getting ready to open some type of business. They are a good example of what not to do. Their first "visit" may only be hours away. You can get thai labor for 200 thb per day; why on earth would one be engaging in manual labor soo close to the police station? I would be extremely surprised if they a) have work permits have registered their company c) have ever run a successful business in their own country.

"I would be extremely surprised if they a) have work permits have registered their company c) have ever run a successful business in their own country."

This is just pure speculation on your part. Mind your own business anyway.

[Gonzo the Face]

I saw four farangs doing renovation work yesterday, near the UN Cafe. Looks like they are getting ready to open some type of business. They are a good example of what not to do. Their first "visit" may only be hours away. You can get thai labor for 200 thb per day; why on earth would one be engaging in manual labor soo close to the police station? I would be extremely surprised if they a) have work permits have registered their company c) have ever run a successful business in their own country.

"I would be extremely surprised if they a) have work permits have registered their company c) have ever run a successful business in their own country."

This is just pure speculation on your part. Mind your own business anyway.

.....anybody know who the other 3 farangs are ?????

[caf]

I saw four farangs doing renovation work yesterday, near the UN Cafe. Looks like they are getting ready to open some type of business. They are a good example of what not to do. Their first "visit" may only be hours away. You can get thai labor for 200 thb per day; why on earth would one be engaging in manual labor soo close to the police station? I would be extremely surprised if they a) have work permits have registered their company c) have ever run a successful business in their own country.

"I would be extremely surprised if they a) have work permits have registered their company c) have ever run a successful business in their own country."

This is just pure speculation on your part. Mind your own business anyway.

.....anybody know who the other 3 farangs are ?????

Word on the street is that one is a bookshop owner, one owns a restaurant somewhere, one runs a bar in the night market, and the fourth has not disclosed his business. The commonality is that all four flame on TV and go off topic.

Seriously you guys it is none of our business and we don't know about thir company structure or work permit situation. Maybe they just want to get the job done to Western standards. Either way, if it brings new business to Chiangmai it should be welcomed. Why be so negative?

caf

[Gonzo the Face]

I saw four farangs doing renovation work yesterday, near the UN Cafe. Looks like they are getting ready to open some type of business. They are a good example of what not to do. Their first "visit" may only be hours away. You can get thai labor for 200 thb per day; why on earth would one be engaging in manual labor soo close to the police station? I would be extremely surprised if they a) have work permits have registered their company c) have ever run a successful business in their own country.

"I would be extremely surprised if they a) have work permits have registered their company c) have ever run a successful business in their own country."

This is just pure speculation on your part. Mind your own business anyway.

.....anybody know who the other 3 farangs are ?????

Word on the street is that one is a bookshop owner, one owns a restaurant somewhere, one runs a bar in the night market, and the fourth has not disclosed his business. The commonality is that all four flame on TV and go off topic.

Seriously you guys it is none of our business and we don't know about thir company structure or work permit situation. Maybe they just want to get the job done to Western standards. Either way, if it brings new business to Chiangmai it should be welcomed. Why be so negative?

caf

....sounds like 3 impressive people in that group, but as they say a chain is only as strong as its weakest link....

[november222]

Word on the street is that one is a bookshop owner, one owns a restaurant somewhere, one runs a bar in the night market, and the fourth has not disclosed his business. The commonality is that all four flame on TV and go off topic.

caf

unlike you?

[caf]

Word on the street is that one is a bookshop owner, one owns a restaurant somewhere, one runs a bar in the night market, and the fourth has not disclosed his business. The commonality is that all four flame on TV and go off topic.

caf

unlike you?

read my post in context. from the pms i am getting your view is certainly in the minority.

"Word on the street is that one is a bookshop owner, one owns a restaurant somewhere, one runs a bar in the night market, and the fourth has not disclosed his business. The commonality is that all four flame on TV and go off topic.

Seriously you guys it is none of our business and we don't know about thir company structure or work permit situation. Maybe they just want to get the job done to Western standards. Either way, if it brings new business to Chiangmai it should be welcomed. Why be so negative?"

You like selective quoting, don't you.

[Bizz]

I can thank of four so called cornerstone establishments off the top of my head that are up for sell. Coincidence?

If you can fit four cornerstone establishments on the top of your head, then all I can say is "well done". 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'conerstone businesses', especially as regards to chiang Mai - businesses that have been here for more than a year, is that the rub of it? Probably nothing to do with coincidence either.

Why do you think they are for sale.

Business has been slow but the rent, key & tea money just keep going up.

Several of these business are just places to keep the wife occupied and out of trouble, but it's becoming too expensive to keep subsidising the loss makers with the rising value of the Baht.

Just my opinion.

its everywhere north north-east people with money invested are hurting but are too scared to admit it, have just sent a few thousand € to Thailand and looking at the tt rate will probably get 41-43 to Euro "great" its not that we do not want to support our gf, wife's business its that we are not earning the same amount any-more.my earnings are down 56% in Euro-land my exchange rate is down on average 20% over last 2 years, increases in inflation at 38% over last 5 years.OK what does this mean. well its hurting big time down yes 100% more.its open season on farangs failing to live up to there commitments. I rest my case.

[Ulysses G.]

The commonality is that all four flame on TV and go off topic.

unlike you?

Touche'

Edited September 22, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[caf]

A Thai friend of mine is struggling with her restaurant. She opened last year in a soi with three established restaurants. Unfortunately a Thai business trait.

She did however concentrate on what could be her unique selling points and thought, with her French boyfriend and me, how she could offer something different. He has financed her up till now

There are times when she seems to be winning against the struggle but there is unfair competition from the other restaurants now who are encouraging the police to make life difficult. Her family think she should just pack it in.

Our suggestion - she has a 3 year lease - is not to invest more but to ride it out and keep an eye open for a possible sale. To walk away would be very Thai but one needs to thinkm of the not inconsiderable investment already made.

Any positive ideas.

But PLEASE could I ask the usual stalkers on this thread to refrain from commenting and go elsewhere.

[Ulysses G.]

Some take a bit of investment but mostly they take drive, initiative and hard work. Anyone who is anybody put in a lot of hard work to get where they are at. Dreaming helps.

This is it in a nutshell - that and picking a business with a market that is not already saturated.

[thaimiller]

A Thai friend of mine is struggling with her restaurant. She opened last year in a soi with three established restaurants. Unfortunately a Thai business trait.

She did however concentrate on what could be her unique selling points and thought, with her French boyfriend and me, how she could offer something different. He has financed her up till now

There are times when she seems to be winning against the struggle but there is unfair competition from the other restaurants now who are encouraging the police to make life difficult. Her family think she should just pack it in.

Our suggestion - she has a 3 year lease - is not to invest more but to ride it out and keep an eye open for a possible sale. To walk away would be very Thai but one needs to thinkm of the not inconsiderable investment already made.

Any positive ideas.

But PLEASE could I ask the usual stalkers on this thread to refrain from commenting and go elsewhere.

I think you should have a word with UG and Gonzo, they seem to have been around for ages in Business, maybe also KH at the Red Lion.

[Ulysses G.]

:lol:

[sbk]

Lets drop the bickering, the flaming, the baiting and all the other hallmarks of a few posters on this forum. Some people do want to have a serious discussion without tolerating the tripe. thanks.

[caf]

There are many businessmen in CM whom I am sure could make some

helpful comments once they see the thread is serious.

Her parents are supportive as is her boyfriend. I don't want to see

her business close down. She has worked long and hard 24/7 and, like

most Thais, not for herself but because she feels a need to make her

parents secure as they get older.

Many people are giving her a morale boost whenever they can. I hope

some comments on the thread may help too but I'm not interested in views that are off topic or bickering.

How do we suggest she avoids closure of her Chiangmai business. She can't afford expensive advertising and has the usual gifts that she has to pay.